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[Ten-Song]

Sonic Underground. Crappiest of the Sonic Cartoons.

Ah. I vaguely remember hearing of the series, but I honestly could barely stomach the SatAM series as a kid.

*checks out various clips on YouTube*

FUCK! God this is... what the shit is up with the pink hedgehog's voice? Dear lord this is just profoundly bad. What the hell, they're a rock band?

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Blue streak speeds by Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[Stat Flow]

bunch of stuff

Unfortunately... that doesn't change the fact that Sonic games are shitty and used to be some of the greatest things ever.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Sonic on the other hand, is more like Bug Bunny. He's got attitude. He's arrogant and cocky. He has a personality. Plus, his story's been interpreted in many different ways. He's a freedom fighter trying to take back his planet from an evil despot. He's the Road Runner with a mouth with Robotnik as the coyote. He's a sibling trying to find his mother. He's a big brother to a little fox. He's an all-powerful superhero Most of all "I'm just a guy who loves adventure".

Basically, if Sonic were to never make another video game, he'd still be around in some form or another. I doubt we could say the same about Mario.

we're through the looking glass here, people

 

[RobbieNick]

Ah. I vaguely remember hearing of the series, but I honestly could barely stomach the SatAM series as a kid.

*checks out various clips on YouTube*

FUCK! God this is... what the shit is up with the pink hedgehog's voice? Dear lord this is just profoundly bad. What the hell, they're a rock band?

It gets worse. All three siblings are voiced by Jamal White AKA Steve Urkel. Including the girl, and they all sing. Yea. I avoided this one like the plague.

we're through the looking glass here, people

LOL! Congrats Rez, you finally managed to provoke laughter out of me instead of anger.:lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

mario is a cultural icon.

sonic has about as much memorability as a nick toon.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

OK, I've watched the leaked videos. My thoughts because you all care so much.

To preface:

• I was never much of a Sega/Sonic gamer
• Introduced to 2D Sonic with Sonic Rush, then went back on the VC and picked up Sonic 1 and 2. I think all three are pretty great games.

Good:

• The game looks fun to play, I'll say.
• The homing attack looks pretty good. I don't know if allowing it without targeting something is the best idea (there's a GIF for about that), but it doesn't seem like a huge sacrilage to me, and looks like they use it in some pretty neat ways. Does it deserve to be in a 2D Sonic game? Sure. Does it deserve to be in a sequel to the Genesis games? Unsure. But it looks fun here.
• In fact if the game was completed (all episodes), released on disc, and not called Sonic 4... it'd probably be seen as much better than it inevitably will be. I think making it downladable just cheapens the game overall, not even getting into the gameplay. I think the market has been proven to be there (at least on Wii) by NSMBW.
• I think the mine cart level is a neat gimmick. It was kinda dizzying but I think the game needs more standout gimmicks. NSMBW had a gimmick for almost every level and it was a great game for it. That cart bouncing GIF looks bad out of context but I immediately realized when the level started how deceptive it was.

Bad:

• Yeah, they need to tone down the mine cart level a bit. Make the level like half as long.
• The physics are utter crap. Even I wretched at some of the wall-walking going on. I don't remember the physics being that bad in Sonic Rush, but then again Sonic Rush didn't have instances where you'd notice stuff like what happened in those vids.
• While I've warmed up to the graphics I still think it should be the old Sonic design running through those levels, 3D or not.
• The music ranges from OK to annoying.

 

[Ten-Song]

It gets worse. All three siblings are voiced by Jamal White AKA Steve Urkel. Including the girl, and they all sing. Yea. I avoided this one like the plague.

DAMMIT. Why does this exist? Why is it a thing? Why are there people on YouTube giving it praise? I could barely stomach a random selection over the span of a few minutes. I think I want to throw up, and my shoulder hurts. This is awful.

mario is a cultural icon.

sonic has about as much memorability as a nick toon.

Yeah. The reason Mario doesn't exist in so many forms of media is because he doesn't have to. Mario can generate a metric fuck ton of sales with no marketing or media promotions of any kind. Nintendo just needs to make a Mario game.

Sonic's various incarnations are all drastically different, because Sega is constantly trying to make him relevant again. Sega feels the need to constantly shove Sonic in everyone's face regardless of what it actually means to the brand, because he doesn't have the kind of draw that Mario has.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Why are there people on YouTube giving it praise?

never, ever read youtube comments.

I'm surprised at the amount of people that are internet-literate that don't automatically live by this rule. I never even have the urge to read them, they might as well not exist.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I can't believe someone actually believes Sonic is more of a cultural icon today than Mario.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Why are there people on YouTube giving it praise?

They were all accidentally using TextP. Watch them all cry when April Fools day is done...

EDIT: WHATT THE FUCK??? WHY the fuck does Sonic need a fucking Mine cart! He's FUCKING SONIC! THIS ISN'T DONKEY KONG! THIS IS SONIC!!

Jesus fucking christ. Sonic Cycle ain't gonna die!!!!! FUCK!

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I can't believe someone actually believes Sonic is more of a cultural icon today than Mario.

He's a more marketable character. The character would have died with Crash Bandicoot and all those other "NAME" the "ANIMAL" characters if this wasn't true.

 

[RobbieNick]

He's a more marketable character.

That's the point I was trying to make. I'm trying to show why he appeals to people despite his games being mediocre to crap. That's why I mentioned my cousin on the last part.

 

[Ten-Song]

He's a more marketable character. The character would have died with Crash Bandicoot and all those other "NAME" the "ANIMAL" characters if this wasn't true.

Crash could have been exactly just that with ease had Sony decided to throw that kind of money behind it and license it as a horrific Saturday morning cartoon. Sony very obviously didn't give half a shit about the Crash character, considering how he's ended up.

 

[NeoUltima]

Haven't been following this game at all...but wtf at the minecart level! Ridiculous. Overly long and silly. Might have been cool if it was a minute long part of another level or something.

 

[RobbieNick]

Haven't been following this game at all...but wtf at the minecart level! Ridiculous. Overly long and silly. Might have been cool if it was a minute long part of another level or something.

Dude, your avatar creeps me the fuck out.:lol

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Saw all the videos and from the looks of it, it's pretty much press X for everything. Dear Sega, please kill Sonic and let him die in this so-called Sonic 4. There is literally no room for error/exploration in a game where all actions look like QTE. From the looks of it, homing attack was reintroduced cause the platforming and the level design is so bad that they wanted players to cross the location by sticking and attacking to badniks.

When some of the fans including me wished for a faster Sonic, we did not want it to prevent any room for exploration. It's seriously missing the charm of the original 3 games.

Oh and Robotnik/Eggman looks like a lifeless boss...

I'm done paying attention to this game. Will buy it when the price drops to $0.99 (which is never).

 

[Teknoman]

Sega feels the need to constantly shove Sonic in everyone's face regardless of what it actually means to the brand, because he doesn't have the kind of draw that Mario has.

I dunno about that, All Sega needs to do is make a universally good Sonic game. Sure thats pretty farfetched at this point, people are still interested in Sonic as much as they used to be.

 

[Zen]

Saw all the videos and from the looks of it, it's pretty much press X for everything. Dear Sega, please kill Sonic and let him die in this so-called Sonic 4. There is literally no room for error/exploration in a game where all actions look like QTE. From the looks of it, homing attack was reintroduced cause the platforming and the level design is so bad that they wanted players to cross the location by sticking and attacking to badniks.

When some of the fans including me wished for a faster Sonic, we did not want it to prevent any room for exploration. It's seriously missing the charm of the original 3 games.

Oh and Robotnik/Eggman looks like a lifeless boss...

I'm done paying attention to this game. Will buy it when the price drops to $0.99 (which is never).

There's actually lot of exploration in Splash Hill 2, the player just isn't bothering with much of it.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Did anyone play the GBA Sonics? Were they any good? Comparable to 2/3?

 

[RobbieNick]

Did anyone play the GBA Sonics? Were they any good? Comparable to 2/3?

Loved 1, liked 2, hated 3.

Sonic 4 looks comparable to 2.

Saw all the videos and from the looks of it, it's pretty much press X for everything. Dear Sega, please kill Sonic and let him die in this so-called Sonic 4.

I love those kind of replys.:lol Yes, Sega will kill off the mascot that still makes them a ton of money despite his games being mediocre-crap.

The thing is, Sega IS killing him. They're just doing it slowly. People WILL stop buying the games if they keep making bad ones. Sonic and the Black Knight was a mediocre-crap Sonic game and it showed in it's sales which were the lowest for a console Sonic title in a long time.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

My point is, they are still CAPABLE of making good games, right?

 

[Sciz]

Crash could have been exactly just that with ease had Sony decided to throw that kind of money behind it and license it as a horrific Saturday morning cartoon. Sony very obviously didn't give half a shit about the Crash character, considering how he's ended up.

You're kind of underestimating just how well Sonic's character is designed, even after being run through a variety of cultural filters, artists, and writers.

Did anyone play the GBA Sonics? Were they any good? Comparable to 2/3?

Yes, sort of, depending on which one you play, and no.

My point is, they are still CAPABLE of making good games, right?

Dimps can occasionally come up with something enjoyable, though not consistently. I have no faith that they'll ever match the heights of the series.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

My point is, they are still CAPABLE of making good games, right?

NeoGAF's laughing smiley was made for posts like these.

Edit- Yeah Dimps can do some good things. But Sega or Sonic Team in general? Nah.

 

[CB3]

The minecart level gave me a headache. It was a mixture of disgust and motion sickness.

Just give Sonic to Nintendo and be done with it

 

[Ten-Song]

I dunno about that, All Sega needs to do is make a universally good Sonic game. Sure thats pretty farfetched at this point, people are still interested in Sonic as much as they used to be.

Well yeah, obviously that would be the smart thing to do, considering how well it's worked for Mario. But making a good decision is inherently against Sega's core design philosophy these days.

 

[Teknoman]

Well yeah, obviously that would be the smart thing to do, considering how well it's worked for Mario. But making a good decision is inherently against Sega's core design philosophy these days.

Im still waiting on a Shining Force game done Valkyria style...


<_>

 

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Im still waiting on a Shining Force game done Valkyria style...


<_>

You too huh?

 

[Mael]

The funny thing is, I know that Sega is getting my money for this. They could release a turd on a stick, call it Sonic, and my inner ten year old would make me buy it.

So basically you're telling us that you bought Sonic 06?

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Can't they just find the design leads from the originals and give them their old jobs back?

 

[Ten-Song]

Can't they just find the design leads from the originals and give them their old jobs back?

Level design is only a small factor. If a level is still being designed around use of the homing attack, (AKA, the "who needs platforming in a platformer?" button) then the game is still fundamentally screwed. Level design is important, but the levels are designed around a character, and if that character isn't fun to control, it doesn't matter how good the level design strives to be, it will still be in service of a horrifically flawed concept.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Yes, I agree the homing attack should be nixed. What was wrong with the Sonic 3 shields? The homing attack is like a catch-all mix of those, requiring no skill.

 

[wRATH2x]

About the cultural icon thing. Mario is a cultural icon, no question. For years people have played and loved his games, and just about anybody know's who Mario is. Sonic could have been a cultural icon, in the 90's Sonic was a cultural icon. But no saturn game to combat mario 64, the dreamcast and sega failing, years of disappointing games killed his cultural icon status.

Sure he's well known, I'm not saying that he isn't. Everyone I have met in real life only really remembers the genesis games, some friends I know enjoyed the adventure games when we were in elementary school, but overall its all about the Genesis games.

I'd argue that the genesis sonics > any 2d mario. But every Mario game >>>> anything Sonic related other then the classics. Picking between Mario 64 and the genesis Sonics is pretty fucking hard for me, but overall Mario > Sonic.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

We'd probably have good Sonic games if Sonic looked like Mario.

 

[RobbieNick]

About the cultural icon thing. Mario is a cultural icon, no question. For years people have played and loved his games, and just about anybody know's who Mario is. Sonic could have been a cultural icon, in the 90's Sonic was a cultural icon. But no saturn game to combat mario 64, the dreamcast and sega failing, years of disappointing games killed his cultural icon status.

Sure he's well known, I'm not saying that he isn't. Everyone I have met in real life only really remembers the genesis games, some friends I know enjoyed the adventure games when we were in elementary school, but overall its all about the Genesis games.

I'd argue that the genesis sonics > any 2d mario. But every Mario game >>>> anything Sonic related other then the classics. Picking between Mario 64 and the genesis Sonics is pretty fucking hard for me, but overall Mario > Sonic.

I'm not arguing Mario's cultural status. He's the king of video games. His image is more likely to come into your mind when you hear the words video game. I'm saying is that Sonic is more marketable and appealing OUTSIDE of video games, which is how he's managed to stay popular despite the recent lackluster games.

From Micheal Myers at Sonic Stadium

:lol

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

About the cultural icon thing. Mario is a cultural icon, no question. For years people have played and loved his games, and just about anybody know's who Mario is. Sonic could have been a cultural icon, in the 90's Sonic was a cultural icon. But no saturn game to combat mario 64, the dreamcast and sega failing, years of disappointing games killed his cultural icon status.

Sure he's well known, I'm not saying that he isn't. Everyone I have met in real life only really remembers the genesis games, some friends I know enjoyed the adventure games when we were in elementary school, but overall its all about the Genesis games.

I'd argue that the genesis sonics > any 2d mario. But every Mario game >>>> anything Sonic related other then the classics. Picking between Mario 64 and the genesis Sonics is pretty fucking hard for me, but overall Mario > Sonic.

Man, I was well out of high school when Sonic Adventure came out. That's probably why it didn't resonate with me as much as it did some of you guys.

 

[wRATH2x]

I'm not arguing Mario's cultural status. He's the king of video games. His image is more likely to come into your mind when you hear the words video game. I'm saying is that Sonic is more marketable and appealing OUTSIDE of video games, which is how he's managed to stay popular despite the recent lackluster games.

Based on what?

Mario hasn't had a cartoon in years sure, and has been mostly about videogames. But there hasn't been anything that has shown Sonic as the more marketable character.

Through videogames Mario sells more, a hell of a lot more. And Sonic has yet to sell on that level, and there is a lot of Sonic games that just won't sell. Just because some Sonic anime is doing kind of decent on re-runs doesn't make a character more marketable, and the comics aren't exactly setting the world on fire. Hell I'm willing to bet they don't sell well at all compared to superhero's and what not.

 

[wRATH2x]

Man, I was well out of high school when Sonic Adventure came out. That's probably why it didn't resonate with me as much as it did some of you guys.

I remember really fucking loving it as a kid, now I enjoy it but damn is it flawed.

Overall they are still better than whatever we got after.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

I can't believe someone actually believes Sonic is more of a cultural icon today than Mario.

He is in the UK. You still get occasional mentions of Sonic in mainstream media (Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear, for instance), Mario gets mentioned much more rarely (and nearly always as 'Super Mario').

 

[Foov]

He is in the UK. You still get occasional mentions of Sonic in mainstream media (Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear, for instance), Mario gets mentioned much more rarely (and nearly always as 'Super Mario').

Number of times mentioned by random media personalities can hardly be used to measure a characters cultural significance. In the end it's all about recognition throughout the general population. And wasn't Mario the one that was found to be more recognizable throughout the world than Mickey Mouse (back when Mickey was still noticeable outside the parks)? Nintendo's renaissance over the last 5 years have arguably made Mario even more noticeable at this point, he's still synonymous with the company, while Sonic very much has faded away. Really Sonic still probably gets quoted because the quoter isn't quite "with it" enough to realize that the character has really fallen to the wayside over the last 10 years. They're probably just still stuck in the 90's.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

I don't think the concept of Sonic's friends is doomed. Games just suck when said friends are given goofy antics and really high, shrill, annoying voices.

Good friends:
Shadow
Knuckles
Espio
Silver

The rest suck.

Give me a game with those 5, and it would be fine.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I don't think the concept of Sonic's friends is doomed. Games just suck when said friends are given goofy antics and really high, shrill, annoying voices.

Good friends:
Shadow
Knuckles
Espio
Silver

The rest suck.

Give me a game with those 5, and it would be fine.

Wat.

 

[Mael]

Wat.

Come on Shadow was cool in SA2 and in the end he died!
Silver however....

 

[Stat Flow]

I don't think the concept of Sonic's friends is doomed. Games just suck when said friends are given goofy antics and really high, shrill, annoying voices.

Good friends:
Shadow
Knuckles
Espio
Silver

The rest suck.

Give me a game with those 5, and it would be fine.

You're the problem.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Okay, granted, I never played the 2006 game, or whatever Espio's from. But Shadow and Knuckles are fine.

 

[Mael]

Okay, granted, I never played the 2006 game, or whatever Espio's from. But Shadow and Knuckles are fine.

Shadow is fine because we all know that he's dead!
Every time we saw him it's because the games were just Sonic's delusion after he's been put in a mental hospital after SA2.
That also explains the horrible camera in all theses games since Sonic is mental, he can't be expected to see stuff right...
At least that's how I chose to remember it.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

And wasn't Mario the one that was found to be more recognizable throughout the world

I specifically said the UK. Pay attention!

 

[InvincibleAgent]

I'm fantasizing about a game like New Super Mario Bros Wii, but with Sonic characters.

The 4 would have to have similar physics, so if Sonic were one of them, they would all need to be speed types. That means Sonic, Shadow, Espio, and (nobody wants Amy) Silver.

Imagine gameplay like New Super Mario Bros Wii, but with Sonic-style jumps, shield upgrade boxes a la Sonic 3, and some segments where you have to run fast and can't see what's ahead of you well.

You collect rings cooperatively/competitively, and at the end of the level, they go into your personal "Ring bank" which is used for Super form duration during the last level.

 

[buy teh haloz]

I kind of like Shadow, if only because he skates around on rocket boots instead of running. :lol

 

[Stat Flow]

Okay, granted, I never played the 2006 game, or whatever Espio's from. But Shadow and Knuckles are fine.

Until everyone understand that the only 4 characters that should be in a Sonic game are Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Dr. Robotnik, we'll never have nice things.