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Sony featured on Watchdog (Thursday 28th, 8pm UK) - theft and "no refunds."
- Thread starter toythatkills
- Start date
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Clearly the right thing to do here is to refund these people. To hell with the terms and conditions, Sony. This kind of thing should obviously be an exception to the rules.
OfficerZap
Neo Member
I've always had exceptional service and secured refunds.
I wonder if he went through to a particular centre that was shitty, and if they've been let go? Wouldn't be the first company to outsource some support work and the subcontractors are rubbish.
I wonder if he went through to a particular centre that was shitty, and if they've been let go? Wouldn't be the first company to outsource some support work and the subcontractors are rubbish.
FF Seraphim
Member
This has happened more times than it should be allowed. Maybe we should start a Twitter campaign to get Sony to at least do something about the problem. The fact they ban users for doing a charge back to get their money back is appalling and one of the main reasons I will never have my credit card info on my systems.
I should have tried to refund Evolve. Worst $70 I ever spent.
The issue is that their Terms of Service, that they themselves wrote up, allows them to be inflexible when they want to.
Whatever the reason that may be. Maybe the directive that week is that too many things are being refunded and the numbers look bad, then they just point to the ToS and it's shit for everyone.
The ToS needs to change. There is nothing less obvious than that acknowledged fraudulently made purchases should be refunded.
I think they can't remotely deactivate games after they've been installed, which probably informs this policy.
MMaRsu
Banned
They are not. Plenty of users here have gotten refunds from Sony on digital games.
OP had a problem? Sure. But saying or implying that Sony never make a refund, that's NOT TRUE.
By the way, here is the proof of my three refunds from them:
2015
2013
2012
Birgitte2004
Member
Who, or what, is "Sony" in this context?
Portugeezer
Member
Ha, ok, I believe you. You don't care, you just mentioned it because.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
If Sony or any company knows that the money was taken illegally then they should be refunding that person. There have been a few of these stories on gaf recently and each one is the same with Sony refusing to give refunds or offering a partial refund in store credit.
For all of the things Sony has been doing right this is so incredibly backwards of them and they need to fix it now.
You're on a roll aren't you. MS made their bed with a lot of people so it isn't suprising if people are more ready to jump on MS when they mess up. It doesn't mean we're in "Sonygaf" it just means MS messed up from the start of this gen.
For all of the things Sony has been doing right this is so incredibly backwards of them and they need to fix it now.
You're on a roll aren't you. MS made their bed with a lot of people so it isn't suprising if people are more ready to jump on MS when they mess up. It doesn't mean we're in "Sonygaf" it just means MS messed up from the start of this gen.
I knew you would understand.
The main objection was that as they have no way of determining if someone genuinely used his details fraudulently as opposed to him "sharing his details" and then trying to get his money back to then get a "free" game, they can't provide a refund.
The instances people are using with driveclub are very different, a service which people paid for was broken, hence the refund. There was nothing "gained" but in this instance the gain is potentially a "free" game if the transaction isn't 100% fraudulent.
Out of interest how would they deal with this moving forward? You could apply that logic to everything, what about a credit card, if someone gets my details, and the make a purchase, the credit card refunds things. They could take the same logic "how do we know you didn't give your details to a friend" but it's very rare.
But from Sonys point of view they would rather just say NO in these cases to avoid people taking advantage. EVERY other business has policies in place where transactions can be reversed if fraudulent activity is suspected, e.g PayPal. Sony can NOT have a zero tolerance policy in these instances. Yes there are people that abuse every system and there's NO WAY to prevent a minority from abusing every system.
One thing I wish Sony would clamp down on is game sharing, the people selling games that way on EBay make me sick, and I would like for people who buy games in this way to have their consoles bricked lol
The instances people are using with driveclub are very different, a service which people paid for was broken, hence the refund. There was nothing "gained" but in this instance the gain is potentially a "free" game if the transaction isn't 100% fraudulent.
Out of interest how would they deal with this moving forward? You could apply that logic to everything, what about a credit card, if someone gets my details, and the make a purchase, the credit card refunds things. They could take the same logic "how do we know you didn't give your details to a friend" but it's very rare.
But from Sonys point of view they would rather just say NO in these cases to avoid people taking advantage. EVERY other business has policies in place where transactions can be reversed if fraudulent activity is suspected, e.g PayPal. Sony can NOT have a zero tolerance policy in these instances. Yes there are people that abuse every system and there's NO WAY to prevent a minority from abusing every system.
One thing I wish Sony would clamp down on is game sharing, the people selling games that way on EBay make me sick, and I would like for people who buy games in this way to have their consoles bricked lol
BibiMaghoo
Member
For sure, I'm not defending the practice, just pointing out that they have always been able to give refunds and have. Knowing that makes the bullshitter on the phone or chat have a much harder time fobbing you off.
toythatkills
Member
Okay, but you're focussing on the wrong part of the story, here.
I'm glad you got a refund, so explain to me why the person in the OP wasn't given one, despite talking to numerous people at Sony via numerous means?
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
i hope something changes in their ways though
Maybe SCEE isn´t as receptive as SCEA is?
I can't think it's just bad luck... or maybe there is something else we don't know about the story...
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
I need to understand this better. This year I was a victim of someone "copying" my card, likely at a restraunt, and there was a single charge at gas station hundreds of miles away. I filed a fraud complaint with my BANK and they investigated the matter and refunded my money.
Why would this be any different? I was always under the impression that if your info or bank card is compromised it is not the retailer that owes you money that was wrongfully spent there, but rather you would have to take it up with your bank, and hopefully your bank has fraud protection.
Unless this was Psn credit that was accessed via a compromised PSN account, which again is not the responsibility of Sony or any company. My password is my responsibility if it is compromised on any site it is on me, not Amazon, not Apple, not MS, Sony or whoever. It sucks either way, but technically Sony is backed up by a Terms and Conditions every user agrees to abide by. A company stepping outside of their own terms and conditions could create bad precedents.
Why would this be any different? I was always under the impression that if your info or bank card is compromised it is not the retailer that owes you money that was wrongfully spent there, but rather you would have to take it up with your bank, and hopefully your bank has fraud protection.
Unless this was Psn credit that was accessed via a compromised PSN account, which again is not the responsibility of Sony or any company. My password is my responsibility if it is compromised on any site it is on me, not Amazon, not Apple, not MS, Sony or whoever. It sucks either way, but technically Sony is backed up by a Terms and Conditions every user agrees to abide by. A company stepping outside of their own terms and conditions could create bad precedents.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
I'm not defending Sony's decision to not refund the purchase because that's bull but after the great PSN hack and finding out that if a card holder or the bank of the card holder does a charge back on a digital purchase (even by accident) are grounds to have your PSN Account banned......I would be more than a little hesitant to use/associated my bank card with PSN so Paypal and PSN Card all the way for me.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
The problem is that we have heard of Sony out right banning accounts if a charge back is done.
If you do a chargeback via your bank then Sony permanently ban your PSN account.
Also it sounds like there's quite a big difference between SCEE and SCEA, because all I've ever heard about SCEE is horror stories. Given the stories I've heard, and that you can read for yourself in that rllmuk thread, there's no way SCEE are frivolously refunding games as a matter of course,
Gen.Grievous
Member
No refunds policy, thread is full with people that got refunds haha.
A lot of companies do this.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
I know but that entire post was about going through your bank when it's inadvisable in this situation when Sony will ban your account.
panda-zebra
Member
Are they? Reads to me like they are actually treating him as a willing, paying customer, even though he wasn't and they admit to knowing that. If they were treating him as a criminal, they'd be taking measures against him or his console, not that of the scallywag who used his details on their machine.
It's a shitty situation and a piss-poor level of customer service, but you can't accuse them of treating him as a criminal because their response to him is a virtual shrug/whatevs.
I'm pretty sure that's their reasoning. Who's to say people aren't going to abuse the system if they make exceptions in this case?
If they create a precedent, what's to stop me giving my data to a friend, allow him to buy somehing, complain that a purchase was made with my account in a different console and getting my money back?
That said, I'm all for them implementing a two-step verification and THEN use this kind no-refund policy. Not when a simple login is all you need to access your account. Without two-step, they should issue refunds for stolen accounts. (Even if that means people abuse it. At least that would be an incentive for them to add two-step as fast as they can
)Other companies seem to get by? Infact most companies will give a refund quite easily once they've done their "investigation"
Sony have implied that they have a ZERO tolerance policy. I can see their reasoning, they don't want to lose money to potential opportunists, but it is possible to have a policy in place that in exceptional cases of fraud they provide refunds as opposed to giving refunds to anyone that calls up.
Every other company has policies in place and procedures that dictate what they must do in a case where fraud is reported, if after the steps have been taken fraud is determined then refunds are issued. However Sony have determined fraud but still not give a refund
travisbickle
Member
If it's credit card fraud go to the credit card company. Or is this a grey area for bank refunds too?
And what if it was a debit card?
Zomba13
Member
It's not card fraud, it's people using the account with the details saved on it. If it was card fraud then it would be on someone elses account and you can just file a charge back because who cares if a strangers PSN account is banned?
I always see this brought up. Does America have shitty fraud protection for debit cards or something? In the UK my bank has sorted out both instances of fraud as soon as I called up (you know, minus the "give it x days for the money to show up" stuff).
I'm pretty sure that's their reasoning. Who's to say people aren't going to abuse the system if they make exceptions in this case?
If they create a precedent, what's to stop me giving my data to a friend, allow him to buy somehing, complain that a purchase was made with my account in a different console and getting my money back?
That said, I'm all for them implementing a two-step verification and THEN use this kind no-refund policy. Not when a simple login is all you need to access your account. Without two-step, they should issue refunds for stolen accounts. (Even if that means people abuse it. At least that would be an incentive for them to add two-step as fast as they can
Yep. They need to implement two-step verification ASAP.
jackissocool
Member
It seems like the difference is SCEA (who refund) and SCEE (who don't).
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
If this is true it is news to me. So if my Amazon account is compromised and someone orders a thousand dollars worth of stuff, then Amazon will refund me if I prove the purchase is fraudulent? I thought that would have to be taken up with my bank. Like I said I just wanted to understand the outrage, because I was always under the impression my account info and bank info is my responsibility not a seller's.
That is strange, Nevermind, I know what you mean by charge back now. Thought you meant charge back from sony not the bank
Starwolf_UK
Member
I think we need a disclaimer in the OP that if you are going to come along with your stories about getting refunded, 6 months free PSN plus and Knack walking you to your car can you at least say what country you are in as that has a huge impact on success rate.
There fixed it for you.
So didn't the US $ and the fact watchdog is a UK show make you think. Perhaps it is a more of an SCEE problem.OP had a problem? Sure. But saying or implying that Sony never make a refund, that's NOT TRUE.
By the way, here is the proof of my three refunds from them:
2015
etc
If you read the OP you would find examples where Sony knows it wasn't you and they still refuse to do anything about it. It is absurd.
joecanada
Member
Ive seen multiple threads here at regular intervals about shitty sony customer service. but sure man.... sure.
Zomba13
Member
This. I dunno what magic words you have to utter to get a refund from SCEE but explaining what happened, listing your Sony devices and their serial numbers, explaining how you only log in from one location on that one device, explaining how somehow there are now 4 other linked PS3s on their stupid quriocity site and how none of them are yours, explaining that why would you buy DLC and shit for games that have never been played on your account and escalating as high as it would go over the phone the best I got was "sorry, we won't do anything and if you file a charge-back with your bank we will ban your account".
Must be nice having SCEA support.
loaf of bread
Member
:lol. You guys know it's true. Sony can do no wrong.
goodbye
AkelisRain
Member
This is a really shitty issue, I wonder if he filed a police report for the fraudulent charges, and gone through the bank to verify. Sony at that point would have the proper paperwork for a refund, and if they don't refund it after that then it should be blown up to massive proportions. However, I have received a refund from Sony on numerous occasions. I wonder why this gentlemen did not receive a refund.
CalamityPixel
Member
#4ThePlayers
I had no idea about Sony's no refund thing. Needs to be changed now.
Money
I had no idea about Sony's no refund thing. Needs to be changed now.
I already said that on my last opinion.
BUT I said, too, that maybe we don't know the complete story and all the reasons why Sony didn´t refund this guy.
I live in the UK.
toythatkills
Member
Listen to the phone call, I don't know how the story could be much more complete than that.
SonyToo!™;165375821 said:
The "professional" gaming press isn't generally interested in stuff like this as it could severely damage their relationship with Sony. Loads of gaming sites were contacted and I believe only Gamestyle were actually brave enough to run with it. That's why taking it to places like Watchdog is better because they don't have that bias.
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