Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Small world...ever work at Thus in Southend? Also...are you incredibly, almost stupidly tall?
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Sony featured on Watchdog (Thursday 28th, 8pm UK) - theft and "no refunds."
- Thread starter toythatkills
- Start date
Small world...ever work at Thus in Southend? Also...are you incredibly, almost stupidly tall?
Palette Swap
Member
To add insult to injury, the particular situation in OP would be less likely to happen if they enforced a two-step authentication policy in the first place.
Not offering this in 2015 is a flaw in the way you secure your accounts.
Not offering this in 2015 is a flaw in the way you secure your accounts.
Yes, Hi Jon.
And that's the problem with this.
Just because Pockets didn't let go he was helped, but the issue is with the people that just accept their loss for which they are not at fault and just take it.
That's why this policy needs to be made more consumer friendly across the globe.
Having to rely on making a stink via Watchdog or game sites that don't care about their Sony relationship (which in itself seems to be a problem) is a broken system.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Thought I recognised your dulcet tones.
TheAssist
Member
A few lawyers wrote up some words in a text document. We are therefore bound by gods will to never ever use our own minds or apply basic common sense to any given situation.
I really despise this obedience towards contracts. Sure they are there for a reason. And they do apply in normal situations. But they can never account for absolutely every possible situation. Its impossible. They are not holy scripture (and even those are open for interpretation).
Also I find it funny how, when a corporation cant fulfill its end of a contract its because of "higher power". For example your train didnt arrive because of a storm (which sometimes is a legit reason and you have to live with it). But if you get robbed its your own damn fault and you better suck it up.
(this is not just about sony, but in general. I sometimes feel that some people just want to communicate through lawyers and its frustrating)
I really despise this obedience towards contracts. Sure they are there for a reason. And they do apply in normal situations. But they can never account for absolutely every possible situation. Its impossible. They are not holy scripture (and even those are open for interpretation).
Also I find it funny how, when a corporation cant fulfill its end of a contract its because of "higher power". For example your train didnt arrive because of a storm (which sometimes is a legit reason and you have to live with it). But if you get robbed its your own damn fault and you better suck it up.
(this is not just about sony, but in general. I sometimes feel that some people just want to communicate through lawyers and its frustrating)
Tripolygon
Banned
But I've gotten refunds many times. Took 3 days each time and the purchases was done by me which I told the rep. Just told them it was a mistake and meant to buy something else.
Edit: I'm not saying others aren't finding it hard to get refunds but I haven't. Even my system repairs and exchange are quick.
Edit: I'm not saying others aren't finding it hard to get refunds but I haven't. Even my system repairs and exchange are quick.
I would be more accepting with "it's your own fault" if they gave you state of the art tools to better secure your account against such threats.
The issue with the bank protection is that your account is linked to you, and they can just cut it off.
I know someone that got his Steam account with games which he paid many hundred Euros for closed.
If you only buy physical and all you lose is your PSN name and trophies it's probably not a big deal, if you buy into the ecosystem they have you by the balls.
Pancakes R Us
Member
The trick is not to use a debit card for your PSN account, but a credit card. We have a lot of protections with credit card purchases here in the UK, so if Sony didn't help, the credit card company would have.
The above said, this is a truly shitty policy.
The above said, this is a truly shitty policy.
It's just like when somebody says that Xbox Live or PSN is down and you see a bunch of people chirp "but I'm doing just fine on my end! There must be no problem!" At best, it's ostrich heads in the sand. At worst, it's callously dismissing somebody else's legitimate plight for whatever reason.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Good point, I never thought about this.
This reminds me, I need to call my credit card company and get Nippon Yassan given a good hiding. I opened a PayPal dispute because they kept ignoring my customer service ticket. They then closed my account and won't therefore the 'refund' they gave me by way of a voucher code no longer works.
Sony just ban accounts that claim back, don't they?
Pancakes R Us
Member
Just learnt of this from the poster above.
Hopefully the Watchdog expose gets them to change their policy. Here's to hoping Anne Robinson drags them through the mud, if she gets to interview someone on air.
Yeah there is no excuse for not having such tighter account security especially after the big hacking scandal.
I think there is a very good chance Sony would have implemented it by now if enough of the online community complained but the lack of posts in this thread seems to indicate that the majority of Sony PS owners don't have appetite for it.
UK Consumer Law could potentially be a big weapon against SCEE here, but it's a case of people knowing enough about it to actually use it, and being bothered to go far enough through the process to push Sony into making a refund (ie, actually filing small claims court papers rather than just threatening to do so)
oldergamer
Member
Well reading some of the posts there's lots of people that had issues with digital purchasing or just accidental purchases. No wonder Sony said no refunds to people, as it fixes the problem from their perspective.
However the real bottom line here is that something is wrong with Sony's store if these mistakes or errors are possible. Regardless of just giving the refund. Sony needs to step up and fix that shit.
However the real bottom line here is that something is wrong with Sony's store if these mistakes or errors are possible. Regardless of just giving the refund. Sony needs to step up and fix that shit.
While this thread might suggest differently the main issue is from ppl who had their accounts hacked and Sony won't refund them for games they didn't buy and since it's std practice among Sony and the others too to ban accounts for CC charge backs ppl have had to choose between saying goodbye to their stolen cash or their digital purchases.
There has been a number of threads about the matter over the past year or so.
EDIT here's one of them http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1009150
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Yeah even Microsoft says "no refunds" but they're EXTREMELY loose with that policy. I got a refund on a pre-ordered Digital Sunset Overdrive simply because I changed my mind. Jumped on the chat and had my money within 10 minutes.
Almost all MCC complaints have received refunds too. Microsoft basically puts that in there to cover themselves. They give out refunds just fine if the circumstances justify one. Sometimes even if they don't.
It's part of the reason I spend far less on Sony's digital platform. Their security is shit and they're too heavy handed on the no refunds thing.
Almost all MCC complaints have received refunds too. Microsoft basically puts that in there to cover themselves. They give out refunds just fine if the circumstances justify one. Sometimes even if they don't.
It's part of the reason I spend far less on Sony's digital platform. Their security is shit and they're too heavy handed on the no refunds thing.
I'm not affected but I'd hazard a guess that many just don't want to risk their accounts. With so much money now been spent on digital games and spanning more than one console on the same account there is an increasing need for more customer protection for digital assets.
Silent Chief
Member
Because the game's already been played by by someone using the correct password on a different system. Sony probably has some user information for that other system as well.
This looks like a case of game sharing gone wrong.
Silent Chief
Member
I've never bought anything anywhere unintentionally. Errors are always possible, but fraud is much more prevalent.
You should try the PlayStation web store.
Biggest multiplatform release of the year huge mega banner: You click on it and it defaults to PS3.
And that is certainly not based on actual data that more people buy PS3 games in the web store when you look at how quickly last-gen has been abandoned overall.
SonyToo!;165431546 said:
you can take sony to small claims and stipulate that they dont ban your account. its a very long process but filing a small claims court claim seems to be the only reliable way to get your money back without any repercussions right now. which is super shit :/
Chuck Inferno
Neo Member
rllmuk sent me here
Dragon1893
Member
Damn, this is really shitty.
Glad to know that at least you got your money back in the end dude.
Glad to know that at least you got your money back in the end dude.
Or depending where you live?
Yup, UK support is horrible to deal with. One of the reasons (other than price) I deal almost exclusively on the US PSN store.
I got a refund for Driveclub, but most of my experiences with Sony support have been terrible. Never got the BF4 stuff refunded for example. MS support has been much better here in Germany by comparison. Although I only had to deal with them with the 360, so stuff might have changed now.
Those saying they've been given refunds from Sony, are you talking about money being put back into your PSN Wallet or money put back into your bank account? I don't think the former is the problem here, I think the issue is people having money stolen from their bank accounts and Sony will only issue refunds to a PSN Wallets up to a certain amount
So have I, but that's not what the outcome is every time and it SHOULD be every time.
If I had a problem with something I purchased from Amazon, their customer support would issue a refund no questions asked. THAT is good customer service, not the crap you see from Sony who may or may not help you depending on their mood that day. It's terrible and needs to change. This goes for all other companies too.
Yep, that is something that bothered me. Only got the money back into my PSN wallet.
Yup I accidently bought the Destiny Season Pass on PS3 also when I meant to get it for PS4 since I was in such a hurry. They did refund it for me that time as well, but as I noted in my posts earlier, I still weirdly had access to the content. Well the first pack, I haven't touched Destiny in awhile so I have no clue whether the second dlc actually works or not lol.
Spacecowboy77
Member
That phone call, wow. Just wow.
Hamster Plugin
Member
This is quite unhelpful unless you specifically got a refund from Sony Computer Entertainment Europe. If you are in North or South America, you are dealing with Sony Computer Entertainment America, a company that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.
Palette Swap
Member
Ugh, I hate these. Reminds me of the FIFA "hacks" on Xbox when people were getting their MS accounts stolen through customer service exploits and others were telling them to have better passwords. That's so missing the point.
ersocaster
Member
I don't agree with him, but by definition, any community is a hive mind. Barring outliers, Humans instinctively follow the popular opinion in a community to fit in. It's not a bad thing, it's how we evolved and learned to survive.
On topic though, the situation in the OP is pretty shitty. I have fortunately never needed a refund so I do not have first-hand experience with this, but it seems like this issue occurs most frequently with theft, which is a bit backwards if you ask me.
30yearsofhurt
Member
Bad luck with this shitty experience.
This sounds like two things:
1) SONY not wanting to deal with the cost of account fraud, whether that be the fault of SONY or not.
2) Customer representatives not being properly trained in SONY's policies and the relevant consumer law of the country they're in.
You can't just keep hoping people won't go to the trouble of complaining over 40 quid.
That's just a poor way to treat your customers.
This sounds like two things:
1) SONY not wanting to deal with the cost of account fraud, whether that be the fault of SONY or not.
2) Customer representatives not being properly trained in SONY's policies and the relevant consumer law of the country they're in.
You can't just keep hoping people won't go to the trouble of complaining over 40 quid.
That's just a poor way to treat your customers.
hemo memo
Member
Just make it an automated response at this point. This is unacceptable. Sony customer service is so bad lately they're reaching Valve level.
They deserve a mention here because the of shit I give them for their games, but EA customer service is the best customer service I've experienced and not only in gaming.
They deserve a mention here because the of shit I give them for their games, but EA customer service is the best customer service I've experienced and not only in gaming.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
1) Preordered Bloodborne
2) G/F bought physical copy for me
3) Called Sony saying that the preorder hadn't unlocked but had been downloaded as it was the day before.
4) Got refunded to wallet
5) Digital copy unlocked and still works.
Certainly not a zero tolerance on refunds.
2) G/F bought physical copy for me
3) Called Sony saying that the preorder hadn't unlocked but had been downloaded as it was the day before.
4) Got refunded to wallet
5) Digital copy unlocked and still works.
Certainly not a zero tolerance on refunds.
On multiple occasions, posters in similar threads to this have shown me how little they grasp the principles of contracts and contract law, being of the mind that anything written and agreed to (explicitly or through the contemporary signing of "clicking past") is unimpeachable and utterly ironclad. Contracts are a codification of common sense; they can be appealed and struck down, and are not an adequate argument when they clearly fall on the wrong side of fairness.
That said, I've also had two less-than-enjoyable dealings with pursuing a refund with SCEE in my time, which is why I'm happily no longer a customer of theirs. I'm glad SCEA is more amicable, but SCEE's quality of customer service is the rudest and least satisfying I've ever encountered. Hopefully, publicity like that of Pockets' case will help change things.
They are not on their own in that. I had a disupte with Amazon a couple of years back and the rep I spoke to did not have a clue about consumer rights legislation. I suspect it is the same in most big companies - they just spout bullshit in the hope you'll believe it and go away. The answer is to know your rights and use that knowledge to get what you are due.
This is awesome. I mean the fact that this is necessary and someone had to wait ages to get their money back isn't. But the fact that something like this is pushed and comes to the forefront. The more exposure we can get to terrible handling of digital policies the better. So many companies do it wrong. Sony are just more inept than other's by having lax security and not offering a 2 step login system.
Did you end up pursuing the matter via small claims?
A.D. Skinner
Member
I wonder if this will lead to anything, there are 2 things I'd like refunded and in the UK the only method of contact is scripted email responses and they do not care.
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