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Sony sues George 'geohot' Hotz and fail0verflow over PS3 jailbreak.

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N

Noshino

Member
The Faceless Master said:
sheep like you sicken me, and as one of those people you deemed expendable because your corporate overlords decided that a feature i used was fine to remove, i don't think you deserve to be called human or deserve to have the same human rights as the rest of us.
Click to expand...

The guy made a concise response yet you respond this way?...

Also, if you are to call him sheep, wouldnt you, one that seems to blindly follows the hackers/homebrew community be a sheep as well?

sheep, corporate overlords, dont deserve human rights.....seriously, this is nuts
 
A

Arsenic

Member
The Faceless Master said:
know what else facilitates piracy? designing, producing, manufacturing and making videogame hardware and software available to the general populace. if they didn't do it, it couldn't be pirated!

AND YET, THEY CONTINUE TO DO SO WHEN THE OUTCOME IS INEVITABLE
Click to expand...
There would be no such thing as murder if we all didn't exist! Why, God, why did you put us on earth with the ability to mass-produce!
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
Metalmurphy said:
Yeah... this cease n desist order and the impending lawsuit is just a front.
Click to expand...


Man, you are painting the picture like Sony having all the rights to do whatever they want and users not able to do the same with the hardware they payed for.

Also you haven't show any proof that anyone got their money back. I didn't get my money back. The distributor told me to fuck off. Sony told me to fuck off. I went to consumer rights and Sony told the to fuck off.

Then to fuck off with Sony. Thankfully there are guys out there that enable the consumers to exercise their rights instead of bending over corporations and shills that love those big corporations and dismiss other people rights labeling them as stupid, minority or entitled.
 
A

Arsenic

Member
The Faceless Master said:
the last time i checked, the videogame industry has been growing every year. now, i know that the retail console industry has been shrinking slightly the past 2 years, but this is more than offset by the rapidly growing sectors in online casual gaming and mobile gaming.
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Can Farmville and Angry Birds be pirated yet?
 
N

NullPointer

Member
itxaka said:
Also you haven't show any proof that anyone got their money back. I didn't get my money back. The distributor told me to fuck off. Sony told me to fuck off. I went to consumer rights and Sony told the to fuck off.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe my Google fu is weak right now but I couldn't find any Sony or retailer policy to offer refunds. In fact, I found the opposite. Sony, defending their right to remove functionality as agreed to in their TOS, and various retailers forwarding customer concerns to Sony, except for a few individual cases.
 
A

angelfly

Member
NullPointer said:
Yeah, maybe my Google fu is weak right now but I couldn't find any Sony or retailer policy to offer refunds. In fact, I found the opposite. Sony, defending their right to remove functionality as agreed to in their TOS, and various retailers forwarding customer concerns to Sony, except for a few individual cases.
Click to expand...
AFAIK only a handful of people in Europe managed to do that. It definitely wasn't something that everyone could do.

edit: link http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ps3-owner-gets-other-os-refund
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
itxaka said:
Man, you are painting the picture like Sony having all the rights to do whatever they want and users not able to do the same with the hardware they payed for.

Also you haven't show any proof that anyone got their money back. I didn't get my money back. The distributor told me to fuck off. Sony told me to fuck off. I went to consumer rights and Sony told the to fuck off.

Then to fuck off with Sony. Thankfully there are guys out there that enable the consumers to exercise their rights instead of bending over corporations and shills that love those big corporations and dismiss other people rights labeling them as stupid, minority or entitled.
Click to expand...
Actually I'm painting the picture that WE don't have the right to do whatever we want.

As for proof, there's a moderator here, I forgot who, that got money back. And there's myself. I got a full 599€ refund in a time where consoles were already 399€, but didn't play PS2 games.
 
G

Glix

Member
joshcryer said:
Angry Birds went to ad-only on Android for the sole reason of piracy.

Piracy rate on Android (for good games) is 90%+.
Click to expand...

Isn't it the same on IOS? Don't they have a pirate app store?
 
A

Arsenic

Member
Jobiensis said:
Angry Birds can definitely be pirated. You could argue that using an ad blocker with facebook is similar to pirating.
Click to expand...
That question was serious by the way. I wasnt aware games on the istore can be ripped and used on the phone (angry birds was a bad example, as i know its available elsewhere too)
 
R

railGUN

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
Actually I'm painting the picture that WE don't have the right to do whatever we want.

As for proof, there's a moderator here, I forgot who, that got money back. And there's myself. I got a full 599€ refund in a time where consoles were already 399€, but didn't play PS2 games.
Click to expand...

I believe he was European, and got his refund from Amazon. North America was told to suck it.

Edit: well Americans had a class-action lawsuit I think, but Canadians can't join that, and there were none in Canada that I was aware of.
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
Metalmurphy said:
Actually I'm painting the picture that WE don't have the right to do whatever we want.

As for proof, there's a moderator here, I forgot who, that got money back. And there's myself. I got a full 599€ refund when in a time where consoles were already 399€, but didn't play PS2 games.
Click to expand...


Iapetus was the one who got the refund, and I'm pretty sure it was thanks to Amazon, not Sony.

And yes, we have the right to do whatever we want with the hardware we buy as long as we don't steal, hurt or in any way cause anything bad to others with it. That would include pirating games, cloning the ps3 and selling it for less money or hitting your wife in the head with it.

Running linux on it? A stupid ftp server? That doesn't hurt anybody. It creates value for the hardware, like when the OG xbox was viewed as an awesome HTPC for cheap. They haven't released a backup loader, they haven't helped people get copies running there. They only have showed the world how Sony fucked up with the console security and released an alternate FW that only allows homebrew.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
Jobiensis said:
I mean how does this in any way relate to the statement you made. The original ?? was probably how they would use it to teach without making it public. But professors like to figure out how things work and then tell everybody how they did it.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked no professor has hacked a console (or hardware device) and gave the whole public a private key to digitally sign anything they wanted.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
itxaka said:
Iapetus was the one who got the refund, and I'm pretty sure it was thanks to Amazon, not Sony.
Click to expand...
Mine wasn't through Sony either. Where the responsibility lies I dunno, but I do know my rights.

itxaka said:
And yes, we have the right to do whatever we want with the hardware we buy as long as we don't steal, hurt or in any way cause anything bad to others with it. That would include pirating games, cloning the ps3 and selling it for less money or hitting your wife in the head with it.

Running linux on it? A stupid ftp server? That doesn't hurt anybody. It creates value for the hardware, like when the OG xbox was viewed as an awesome HTPC for cheap. They haven't released a backup loader, they haven't helped people get copies running there. They only have showed the world how Sony fucked up with the console security and released an alternate FW that only allows homebrew.
Click to expand...
See, you just contradicted yourself. Your liberties end when they affect others. And that's exactly what's happening here, and why I find no problem what so ever with Sony trying to stop this.
 
I

itxaka

Defeatist
Metalmurphy said:
Mine wasn't through Sony either. Where the responsibility lies I dunno, but I do know my rights.


See, you just contradicted yourself. Your liberties end when they affect others. And that's exactly what's happening here, and why I find no problem what so ever with Sony trying to stop this.
Click to expand...


Don't ignore the rest of my post when I explain what I mean please. Tell me how this is hurting the ps3.
 
Vorg

Vorg

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
Mine wasn't through Sony either. Where the responsibility lies I dunno, but I do know my rights.
Click to expand...

Your case was different. Didn't they refund you because they didn't have any other ps3s with ps2 compatibility or something? I honestly don't remember.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
itxaka said:
Don't ignore the rest of my post when I explain what I mean please. Tell me how this is hurting the ps3.
Click to expand...
Do you really need me to tell you? I'd just be repeating what's been said over and over in this thread. And it's not speculation, it is happening, it will continue to happen.

The discussion moved over to either the good outweighs the bad, and imo no, it really doesn't.

acidspunk said:
Your case was different. Didn't they refund you because they didn't have any other ps3s with ps2 compatibility or something? I honestly don't remember.
Click to expand...
How is that any different? They would be depriving me of a feature I had (like removing OtherOS), and as such I wanted my money back.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
phosphor112 said:
Last time I checked no professor has hacked a console (or hardware device) and gave the whole public a private key to digitally sign anything they wanted.
Click to expand...

This exact professor was involved in propagating the algorithm for decrypting CSS when DVD Jon reverse engineered it thanks to private keys cracked from a Xing DVD player. You're arguing yourself in circles.
 
A

Arsenic

Member
itxaka said:
Iapetus was the one who got the refund, and I'm pretty sure it was thanks to Amazon, not Sony.

And yes, we have the right to do whatever we want with the hardware we buy as long as we don't steal, hurt or in any way cause anything bad to others with it. That would include pirating games, cloning the ps3 and selling it for less money or hitting your wife in the head with it.

Running linux on it? A stupid ftp server? That doesn't hurt anybody. It creates value for the hardware, like when the OG xbox was viewed as an awesome HTPC for cheap. They haven't released a backup loader, they haven't helped people get copies running there. They only have showed the world how Sony fucked up with the console security and released an alternate FW that only allows homebrew.
Click to expand...
I completely agree Sony should not have removed OtherOS, even IF it wasn't used by 99% of the community. I say that as a non-user myself. I'm also angry that Sony failed to respond to constant requests over the years about cross-game chat and numerous features that competitors have. They have to expect that people will find a way to resolve these issues themselves (legally or not).

At the same time, I cannot agree with comments saying "Sony has no one to blame but themselves!". No one deserves piracy thats now inevitable to happen in the next few months. It isn't just Sony that potentially can suffer from this, its anyone who decides to publish (or not publish) their game on the console, as well as the legit gamers.
 
C

Cruzader

Banned
Clear said:
Yeesh. I really was hoping to restrain myself from posting in this thread -opinions are so entrenched on both sides there's very little debate to be had- but this comment is so perfectly asinine I had to respond.

Dear Tinfoilhatman,
the world does not solely revolve around you, and exist to serve your interests and desires. For those of us with no particular interest in Linux, homebrew or piracy, all GeoHot and his fellow hackers have achieved is to create a colossal mess that is in no way going to enrich our enjoyment of our PS3's.

In fact, the need for heightened network security is quite likely to do the reverse. Everything in business has a cost attached, and if time/resources are being spent bolstering defences (both legal and technical) those funds will have been diverted from elsewhere. In simple terms, every user is going to feel the impact even if its the simple inconvenience of being forced to install additional firmware updates that would otherwise not be neccessary.

Why is this happening again? Sony may well have been planning to remove OtherOS support, but the impetus to patch it out so suddenly was demonstrably driven their desire to prevent hacker attacks. You can't point the finger of blame at Sony in isolation for this - frankly their desire to protect their business seems like a far more reasonable rationale than the desire to prolong service of a feature that -at least to my knowledge- had produced precisely nothing of general public interest for over 3 years.

Is it really so unreasonable after spending billions of dollars developing a system that has barely started to turn a profit that they Sony should want to protect their investment at all costs? I mean its not like they are the industry dominating super-power of years gone by, they are the ones struggling this generation. Desperate times demand desperate measures and all that.

Your comments also strongly indicates that you feel Sony should be in deathly fear of the hackers, is that *really* such a desirable situation for, well, anybody? It surely doesn't seem like a sweet deal for regular users like me who also payed good money for his console and now apparently should be looking forward to buying a new system because this one is "finished". Great. Mind if I bill you for my replacement PS4?

After all, there is -according to you- nothing that Sony can do at this point. Going after the hackers via the courts is just going to make things worse, because they are beyond the law apparently... Sheesh I wish these all-powerful people would use their revolutionary superpowers to do something generally constructive like bring peace to the middle-east or something... as opposed to bringing a system *I LIKE* to its knees in a gaudy display of people power (or Terrorism if you're a fan of the Patriot act <rolls eyes>).

Seriously though, Geohot's blatant self-promotion in publically disseminating the crypto-keys and pushing out his custom firmware kit so visibly is just begging to elicit a legal response from Sony. For such a "smart" kid it seems extraordinarily naive for him to expect anything less. And that being the case isn't it completely cut-and-dried as to who is driving this debacle forward? It isn't Sony.

Call me old-fashioned but I expect my Hackers like other "outlaw" types to wear masks, ore at least a leetized pseudonym. From where I sit he couldn't have made himself a more obvious target had he painted a bullseye on his skinny ass.

If he's done nothing wrong, or he's really as smart as he thinks he is, let him prove it in court. Seems fair enough to me.

The bottom-line is this: The ability to run unlicensed code is not just about free-warez and the media center of your dreams. Its about being constantly concerned that Sony will somehow detect your modified system and kick you off PSN. Its about being cockblocked by "surprise" OFW releases that need to be modded by some enterprising hacker and downloaded from some uncertain source before you can enjoy their benefits.

Its a big bag of arseholes, Tinfoilhatman. Its hassle, and worry, and for what exactly? You will never be able to use PSN with the same level of confidence and carefreeness that a legit user will.

One last thing. It doesn't matter whether you believe EULA's are legally binding or not. You should be in absolutely no doubt that Sony believe they are, and will take steps to enforce their view in any and all business transactions with them. If you don't like the deal, you should take your custom elsewhere. Taking the cavalier attitude that you can choose to ignore the terms they have been at pains to lay out for you is not honourable in any way. Its just the kind of legalistic dickery you are complaining that big-business is guilty of.

You really don't have the moral high-ground you think you have.

Peace & Love.

PS. I have absolutely no intention of posting again in this thread. So don't bother calling me out on any of my cranky opinions - I just needed to get this off my chest.
Click to expand...
Great post.
 
L

linkboy

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Actually I'm painting the picture that WE don't have the right to do whatever we want.

As for proof, there's a moderator here, I forgot who, that got money back. And there's myself. I got a full 599€ refund in a time where consoles were already 399€, but didn't play PS2 games.
Click to expand...

People in the US couldn't get their money back, unlike people in Europe. If we tried to get our money back for something like this, Sony would just laugh in our faces.
 
Vorg

Vorg

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
How is that any different? They would be depriving me of a feature I had (like removing OtherOS), and as such I wanted my money back.
Click to expand...

Well what could they do if not refund you? It's different in that by removing OtherOS the console still works. They just removed an extra. Not like your case where the console died.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Do you really need me to tell you? I'd just be repeating what's been said over and over in this thread. And it's not speculation, it is happening, it will continue to happen.

The discussion moved over to either the good outweighs the bad, and imo no, it really doesn't.
Click to expand...
Unless itxaka pirates and does any of those bad things, what does that have to do with his actions?
 
3

3rdman

Member
Clear said:
Yeesh. I really was hoping to restrain myself from posting in this thread -opinions are so entrenched on both sides there's very little debate to be had- but this comment is so perfectly asinine I had to respond.

Dear Tinfoilhatman,
the world does not solely revolve around you, and exist to serve your interests and desires. For those of us with no particular interest in Linux, homebrew or piracy, all GeoHot and his fellow hackers have achieved is to create a colossal mess that is in no way going to enrich our enjoyment of our PS3's.
Click to expand...
UM...I don't care how it affects you at all. The hack will affect me positively so allow me to remind you that the world doesn't revolve around you either.

Clear said:
PS. I have absolutely no intention of posting again in this thread. So don't bother calling me out on any of my cranky opinions - I just needed to get this off my chest.
Click to expand...
LOL so you are a kid with no ability or stamina to stand by your rants...yeah, I'll be sure to take you more seriously in the future.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
Metalmurphy said:
See, you just contradicted yourself. Your liberties end when they affect others. And that's exactly what's happening here, and why I find no problem what so ever with Sony trying to stop this.
Click to expand...
you're comparing real effects to hypothetical effects that may happen in the future?
 
R

Raist

Banned
itxaka said:
And yes, we have the right to do whatever we want with the hardware we buy as long as we don't steal, hurt or in any way cause anything bad to others with it. That would include pirating games, cloning the ps3 and selling it for less money or hitting your wife in the head with it.

Running linux on it? A stupid ftp server? That doesn't hurt anybody. It creates value for the hardware, like when the OG xbox was viewed as an awesome HTPC for cheap. They haven't released a backup loader, they haven't helped people get copies running there. They only have showed the world how Sony fucked up with the console security and released an alternate FW that only allows homebrew.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you surely have the right to do whatever you want with your hardware. You can use your PS3 as a hammer if you please. Problem is, JB, custon firmware etc, is based on modifications of software, which isn't exactly yours.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
The Faceless Master said:
you're comparing real effects to hypothetical effects that may happen in the future?
Click to expand...
In a way... yeah. I mean... You can't use linux yet, or XBMC, or have ingame screenshots, video capture, all the great things being mentioned here. Yet you can already pirate games that were unpirated before because of this.

real effects vs hypothetical indeed.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
Raist said:
Yeah, you surely have the right to do whatever you want with your hardware. You can use your PS3 as a hammer if you please. Problem is, JB, custon firmware etc, is based on modifications of software, which isn't exactly yours.
Click to expand...
you already paid for the ability to use the software when you bought the hardware.
 
Guy Legend

Guy Legend

Member
3rdman said:
UM...I don't care how it affects you at all. The hack will affect me positively so allow me to remind you that the world doesn't revolve around you either.


LOL so you are a kid with no ability or stamina to stand by your rants...yeah, I'll be sure to take you more seriously in the future.
Click to expand...

You missed his point. Piracy negatively affects the majority of legit users as he pointed out. Money is being spent here when it could be spent on something service/fun oriented.

The hack benefits a fringe group of users like yourself. You think Sega and the majority of Dreamcast users benefited from its widespread piracy? Who's really taking the world revolves around you attitude here.
 
R

railGUN

Banned
Guy Legend said:
You missed his point. Piracy negatively affects the majority of legit users as he pointed out. Money is being spent here when it could be spent on something service/fun oriented.
Click to expand...

Like maintaining Linux... lol.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
The Faceless Master said:
i'm asking. you tell me.
Click to expand...
Why are you asking me though? I don't think you need me to tell you that no, CFW != Piracy

Not sure where you're getting at...

The Faceless Master said:
Piracy? of Castlevania? the vast majority of games don't even work.
Click to expand...
They do now. And guess who caused that...
 
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