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Sony's refund policy for broken PSN titles is ludicrous and hilarious.

This is why many companies have no interest in dealing with customers who abuse chargebacks.

What is chargeback abuse in your opinion? If a game I bought is broken and customer support refuses to help, is it chargeback abuse if I try and get my money back?

I don't think they think banned him for asking for refunds, I mean he literally said "once I get that refund after an hour long argument"... we don't have access to that hour long argument, but given that there was one it's hard to know if he crossed a line or not. Plenty of people have gotten refunds [including me] without argument or ban.

There are two issues I see here. First, even if the person crossed a line this still doesn't mean that the company has any right to deny him support services. No right whatsoever. They can refuse to do business with him in the future by banning future purchases but they absolutely can't deny him access to support for a product he has already purchased. Second, if he was indeed banned from support chat he should have received a notification informing him of the reason and the duration of the ban. That's how these things should work.
 

ViviOggi

Member
He said that once I'd obtained written confirmation from Ninja Theory, I should delete the game, rebuild my PS4 database, and then restore the licenses and then redownload the game. If it still wasn't working, I'd be able to get a refund. I told him I might as well just ask Ninja Theory to cut out the middle man and write me a cheque for the £25 and he said that from Sony's perspective that would be the ideal scenario.
This is fucking hilarious lmao

#4ThePlayers indeed
 

Logash

Member
There are two issues I see here. First, even if the person crossed a line this still doesn't mean that the company has any right to deny him support services. No right whatsoever. They can refuse to do business with him in the future by banning future purchases but they absolutely can't deny him access to support for a product he has already purchased. Second, if he was indeed banned from support chat he should have received a notification informing him of the reason and the duration of the ban. That's how these things should work.
Thank you! It is never okay to refuse service to someone who is actively using your service. The fact that I wasn't informed of this ban and customer service is unaware of it (I asked about it and they said it was impossible) is shady and disgusting. I'm not the only one this has happened to either! It's absolutely crazy and I have never heard of another company doing this.
 
Sony has a terrible refund policy (essentially a non existing one) and I believe that if they do offer you a refund it will be met with the following...

"We don't normally allow refunds but since you're a valued customer we're glad to offer you a one time gesture of good will".
 

Logash

Member
Sony has a terrible refund policy (essentially a non existing one) and I believe that if they do offer you a refund it will be met with the following...

"We don't normally allow refunds but since you're a valued customer we're glad to offer you a one time gesture of good will".

Add an hour of explaining how it's ridiculous that you can't get one to that and it was pretty much my experience.
 
That sounds fucking terrible. I'm not defending Sony as a whole, but it sounds like you dealt with a specifically antagonistic dickhead.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Tell me about it, my little brother had to jump through hoops just to cancel his pre-order of Sonic Mania as there was no way to do it without having call Sony directly.

I’m noticing a heavy pattern in these threads that the fault really lies in the EU branch of Playstation. I can’t remember the last time I’ve heard anyone complain about this type of stuff with US PSN. Is Europe less regulated in terms of customer support when it comes to digital producst? I thought it was supposed to be more so, where you are legallly allowed to cancel the preorder, which us the rule the US law doesn’t cover.

Well when I brought Sonic Mania on the Switch I also got an confirmation e-mail which also stated that I had the right to cancel within 14 days without giving a reason.

Let that sink in for a second, Nintendo is more willing to offer refunds within 14 days than Sony is, something that also surprised me as well.

How did Valve get put in their place regarding this but Sony is still trucking along with their garbage policy?

Because Valve knew that eventually consumer law will catch up with digital right so might as well get ahead of the game before it is forced upon them.
 
Did Microsoft ever actually implement that two-hour refund window? I refunded Fortnite and they gave me shit about it and told me they'd do it this once as a courtesy.
 

Dantis

Member
Did Microsoft ever actually implement that two-hour refund window? I refunded Fortnite and they gave me shit about it and told me they'd do it this once as a courtesy.

At least you didn't have to ask the developer to admit that their game was broken.

That sounds fucking terrible. I'm not defending Sony as a whole, but it sounds like you dealt with a specifically antagonistic dickhead.

Two, actually. I called twice.
 

BigEmil

Junior Member
I 100% buy games on PS4 physical only until Sony implements a refund system

Only time I get digital games is if the game is digital only of course but then I buy it in a sale
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
It depends on who you ask for the refund really..i've gotten two refunds back to my PSN store credit(not a full credit card refund) when i asked early after the purchase but the third time i was refused.

I will agree its super shitty, consoles should definitely all have refund options, even if its limited to a certain number of hours and in certain game conditions
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
Did Microsoft ever actually implement that two-hour refund window? I refunded Fortnite and they gave me shit about it and told me they'd do it this once as a courtesy.
To initiate a refund, you must head to Microsoft's account website and sign in. Once you've signed in, you can select "payment & billing" from the top bar and navigate to "order history." Once you're on the order history page, you can click on an app or game you've purchased and choose to request a refund.
 

Dantis

Member
Just Emailed Ninja Theory asking them to confirm that the bug exists. Fucking outrageous that I had to do that, to be honest.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Durante said:
Actually, the problem is quite clearly that Sony does not have an explicitly stated, well-defined, consumer-friendly refund policy.
I don't disagree there - but I think it's still worth mentioning that in UK - poorly defined policies that change depending on who you talk to seem to be par for the course. Even in companies that have very high reputation for quality of their customer service.
 

Dantis

Member
Just Emailed Ninja Theory asking them to confirm that the bug exists. Fucking outrageous that I had to do that, to be honest.

In a truly brilliant move, Emailing Ninja Theory provides an OOO notification. They'll be back on the 30th August.

Lol.
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
In a truly brilliant move, Emailing Ninja Theory provides an OOO notification. They'll be back on the 30th August.

Lol.

giphy.gif
 

IvorB

Member
I don't disagree there - but I think it's still worth mentioning that in UK - poorly defined policies that change depending on who you talk to seem to be par for the course. Even in companies that have very high reputation for quality of their customer service.

Yes, customer service is terrible in the UK. But UK and EU in general have very strong consumer protections in law. Which is why I can't understand people, including OP it seems, who would rather jump through Sony's hoops than make use of the laws and institutions that are available to cover exactly this situation. I just don't get it.
 
I had similar with Resident evil Revelations on the Vita, got about an hour in, it lagged constantly like 56k internet connection, made it impossible to play, then as i got to the first barry section it crashed! try again? crash

I contacted sony, wanted a refund, explained the situation, they even said they had received complaints about the game......but to get a refund i had to contact Capcom

I went further than you though, i contacted Capcom

they cold me to contact sony as the vendor

so basically a cyclical policy where nobody take responsibility for crap
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Actually, the problem is quite clearly that Sony does not have an explicitly stated, well-defined, consumer-friendly refund policy.
I’m not sure if they state it explicitly anywhere, but in US and Canada you can get refund from them for just about any reason. That’s why you never see this kind of complaint coming from those areas. They clearly have different rules for different regions, and in case of the preorder cancellation at least (which you can do in EU but can’t in US) they have those different rules only because they are mandated by the law. I was wondering if the US market law already protects customers better in case of the digital products.
 
Holy crap they are actually banning people from chat support now for asking for refunds? Sony really needs to change their return policy to make it more like steam and more flexible. Banning from chat is just ridiculous...

I also asked about an issue my PS4 Pro was having and a payment issue I was having after not getting an answer the day before. I wasn't rude or anything so it's pretty strange. Maybe they were annoyed by me chatting them up 2 days in a row about the same stuff. EDIT: Although I don't think a company should be banning paying users from their lice chat for ANY purposes (beyond maybe going full angry soccer mom) but that's too far off-topic.

They're surprisingly helpful via phone so it's not a huge deal. Hopefully an accidental clicking of some button.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yes, customer service is terrible in the UK. But UK and EU in general have very strong consumer protections in law. Which is why I can't understand people, including OP it seems, who would rather jump through Sony's hoops than make use of the laws and institutions that are available to cover exactly this situation. I just don't get it.

Most of the time its because Sony hold their accounts and games hostage, and people just thought it wouldnt worth the effort, time and money going up against a conglomerate.
 

Dantis

Member
I also asked about an issue my PS4 Pro was having and a payment issue I was having after not getting an answer the day before. I wasn't rude or anything so it's pretty strange. Maybe they were annoyed by me chatting them up 2 days in a row about the same stuff.

They're surprisingly helpful via phone so it's not a huge deal. Hopefully an accidental clicking of some button.

Both of the times I contacted them today it was by phone.
 

WarLox

Member
Sony's policies with PSN are archaic as fuck and they need to get their shit together. The idea that they take no responsibility for the quality of the product is like Amazon refusing to accept returns on faulty products, wherein I'd need to contact the manufacturer as opposed to just sending it back to them. Sony have a direct responsibility in ensuring the things they sell on their storefront work as advertised––if not, then they need to accept responsibility and they themselves deal with the publisher/developer, not the consumer.

Edit: OP, I'd have the mind to just do a chargeback on your credit/debit card. But obviously you'll be banned from PSN.

Buy a digital game from amazon, then try to return it because of a bug. Lol
 
Companies are driven by profits, if people are still willing to buy online from them even when they have ludicrous policies what benefit would be for them to improve anything?

In other words, vote with your wallet.
There are few other companies that have shittier return policies that I have experienced. That's because most companies are not stupid and realize that a bad experience made up for is worth much more than the $30 you spent on Hellblade. When other leaders in the industry have a much more comfortable policy than PS, no, they can't just sit on their asses. They'll lose money regardless of internet crusaders.
 

TheChamp

Member
If your in the UK which it seems you are dont they have to refund you by EU law if a digital game has a game breaking bug and is broken
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Yes, customer service is terrible in the UK. But UK and EU in general have very strong consumer protections in law. Which is why I can't understand people, including OP it seems, who would rather jump through Sony's hoops than make use of the laws and institutions that are available to cover exactly this situation. I just don't get it.

Mostly because some folks aren't aware of their consumer rights and company prey on that.

Plus according to my little brother when he called Sony helpline to get a refund he suspected that he got an Indian call center rather than one based in the UK.

I had similar with Resident evil Revelations on the Vita, got about an hour in, it lagged constantly like 56k internet connection, made it impossible to play, then as i got to the first barry section it crashed! try again? crash

I contacted sony, wanted a refund, explained the situation, they even said they had received complaints about the game......but to get a refund i had to contact Capcom

I went further than you though, i contacted Capcom

they cold me to contact sony as the vendor

so basically a cyclical policy where nobody take responsibility for crap

Yeah that's stupid as far I can see you brought the license from Sony thus Sony is the one responsible in issuing refund and not Capcom.
 

autoduelist

Member
Did you miss the fact where they said they wouldn't give them a refund for an obvious problem on their storefront? They are responsible for the double charge, not that poster. So premptively saying "We won't give you a refund for our mistake, and we also will ban your account if you chargeback" is basically holding the customer hostage using their account as leverage. Chargebacks are a last resort, but that situation is exactly the type of situation chargeback are meant for, a company unwilling to rectify their mistake which cost you money.

The way I read it is they told him it was under review, not that they said no.

Read his post again. You condescendingly say "Did you miss the fact where they said they wouldn't give them a refund for an obvious problem on their storefront?" but he said nothing of the sort. In fact, he essentially says they told him it was under review and he was warned not to charge back while it was under review. That is correct advice.


What is chargeback abuse in your opinion? If a game I bought is broken and customer support refuses to help, is it chargeback abuse if I try and get my money back?

There are two issues I see here. First, even if the person crossed a line this still doesn't mean that the company has any right to deny him support services. No right whatsoever. They can refuse to do business with him in the future by banning future purchases but they absolutely can't deny him access to support for a product he has already purchased. Second, if he was indeed banned from support chat he should have received a notification informing him of the reason and the duration of the ban. That's how these things should work.

Regarding the first paragraph, no matter what we think of their no return policy, we know they have a no return policy. There is also no clear definition of a 'broken' game. For example, I just platinumed and loved JC3, which many people thought was 'broken'. Are they right? Am I right? If they are right, then any game can be called 'broken', since all games have bugs. Are unwinnable trophies 'broken' games that deserve refunds? What is a 'game breaking' bug? If you played for 20 hours, etc...

The point is, I don't know the answer there. They have a strict policy and I know they have a strict policy. I buy with that in mind, and that can sometimes affect the price I am willing to pay. I consider myself an informed consumer, so am careful... just like I buy almost anything from other stores knowing I can just return it easily. Since my knowledge of the policy affects my habits, I don't feel bothered by their policies... I just adapt to them.

I do know I've gotten 3 refunds from Sony. All of them were my fault to begin with [forgot to turn off auto-renew on ps+, their music service, etc]. They refunded within 2 minutes of polite conversation. I'm sure people have bad experiences too... but plenty of people also treat reps like trash and, on the internet, it can be very difficult to know what went down since we only have one perspective.

I also know their policy on chargebacks [which other companies also have]. Heck, nowadays there are businesses who -share- banlists with other companies [to prevent fraud, etc], so you need to be extra careful. While I don't consider this a good thing, I do accept it's an understandable position. While chargebacks should always be in good faith, the unfortunate underbelly is that they are a massive source of consumer fraud as well, and if a company feels the need to protect themselves I 'get it', because, well, I know how bad chargeback expenses are based on personal career experience.

Regarding your second point, banning policy. I guess? Sure, I guess it's nice to be told why and how long you are banned for? But again, while there will always going to be exceptions, I don't think it's absurd to think they ban for abusive behavior [or potential scammers, etc]. While some innocents get caught up in that, I can't say I blame reps for banning some people.
 
I play mainly on PlayStation, but I am rooting so hard for Microsoft's refund policy to be a success because it is the only way Sony will ever get with the times.
 

BHK3

Banned
Slightly unrelated but I lost two months of PS+ games and Sony wanted email receipts. Problem is I never got email receipts for downloading free stuff, despite the rep saying Sony has sent them "since the beginning of time". The whole convo i felt like I was talking to a dude using a fucking translator.
 
If a game has a bug that prevents me from progressing, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask for a refund.

And it's not unreasonable for them to say no. That's in the agreement when you purchased the software.

If they say yes, sure, that's awesome and a bonus and going above and beyond, but until refunds become policy, expecting refunds from PSN is not realistic.

(Note: Sony should offer refunds asap and it's stupid they don't, but it's no secret, it's stated policy for download purchases.)
 
Regarding the first paragraph, no matter what we think of their no return policy, we know they have a no return policy.

My answer is about your whole post, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing. It doesn't matter one bit if you know about Sony's policy or not. You and other Sony customers knowing about the strict no returns policy doesn't make that that policy any less shitty and anti-consumer. It needs to change. Other digital retailers have already implemented reasonable return policies.
 
My answer is about your whole post, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing. It doesn't matter one bit if you know about Sony's policy or not. You and other Sony customers knowing about the strict no returns policy doesn't make that that policy any less shitty and anti-consumer. It needs to change. Other digital retailers have already implemented reasonable return policies.

But it does make you not smart if you buy a thing that says "NO REFUNDS" and then expect to get a refund.

Maybe don't buy the thing that says no refunds, or consider that money gone when you do?
 

Sulik2

Member
Sony has zero incentive to offer refunds until the law forces them too. They dominate the market right now why would they give money if the law doesn't force them to kicking and screaming? It's anti consumer but being a market dominant force that doesn't matter much. Just do what I do and avoid buying digital on the PS4 as much as possible and wait for cheap sales when it's not.
 

Z O N E

Member
There are plenty of digital store fronts that do accept refunds, including the Xbox marketplace.

Actually you can request a refund on Xbox One now if you have 2 hours or less game time of that game, so I don't know why you're saying "including the Xbox marketplace."
 

Dantis

Member
And it's not unreasonable for them to say no. That's in the agreement when you purchased the software.

If they say yes, sure, that's awesome and a bonus and going above and beyond, but until refunds become policy, expecting refunds from PSN is not realistic.

(Note: Sony should offer refunds asap and it's stupid they don't, but it's no secret, it's stated policy for download purchases.)

It's actually their legal obligation in the UK.
 

Caayn

Member
Xbox does do refunds now.
Actually you can request a refund on Xbox One now if you have 2 hours or less game time of that game, so I don't know why you're saying "including the Xbox marketplace."
My English isn't perfect but that's what I'm saying, that Xbox does support refunds.

I've used the Xbox's automated refund system and it worked wonderfull when I tried it.
 

Fisty

Member
Sucks but just wait for a patch. Gamestop wouldn't refund you either, and until it's standard system wide then you just have to wait for a patch
 
Sony's horrible customer service has been known about and documented here for years. Why does the gaming press never call out Sony executives they interview about this?
 
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