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[Dantis]

I recently bought Hellblade, and a couple of hours in, encountered a progression-halting bug - this one - not a problem, I thought, I wasn't enjoying the game that much, and didn't want to retread the opening hours again (especially with no guarantee that I won't receive the same bug), so I contact Playstation support and ask for a refund.

To cut a fifteen minute discussion short, I was told that despite being the vendor of the software, they take no ownership of its quality or functionality. I was told that the only way a refund would ever be processed is if I contact Ninja Theory directly, and they take direct, written responsibility for Hellblade, and acknowledge it as a faulty product.

That is fucking crazy. I thought I might get told 'no' but I didn't think I'd get told 'this isn't our responsibility'.

He said that once I'd obtained written confirmation from Ninja Theory, I should delete the game, rebuild my PS4 database, and then restore the licenses and then redownload the game. If it still wasn't working, I'd be able to get a refund. I told him I might as well just ask Ninja Theory to cut out the middle man and write me a cheque for the £25 and he said that from Sony's perspective that would be the ideal scenario.

Get the fuck out of town.

 

[stargateheaven]

Australia need to get on it so refunding is easy on PSN.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Sony's policies with PSN are archaic as fuck and they need to get their shit together. The idea that they take no responsibility for the quality of the product is like Amazon refusing to accept returns on faulty products, wherein I'd need to contact the manufacturer as opposed to just sending it back to them. Sony have a direct responsibility in ensuring the things they sell on their storefront work as advertised––if not, then they need to accept responsibility and they themselves deal with the publisher/developer, not the consumer.

Edit: OP, I'd have the mind to just do a chargeback on your credit/debit card. But obviously you'll be banned from PSN.

 

[Certinty]

At least they gave you some advice on what to do. When Just Cause 3 got updated to a point where it was more or less unplayable at times Sony just gave me a straight no.

 

[KaoteK]

They need to get with the times. Steam, GoG, Origin and Microsoft all offer refunds. If Sony really want us to buy into the digital future (and there's no doubt they do) they should up their game.

 

[Dantis]

Sony's policies with PSN are archaic as fuck and they need to get their shit together. The idea that they take no responsibility for the quality of the product is like Amazon refusing to accept returns on faulty products, wherein I'd need to contact the manufacturer as opposed to just sending it back to them. Sony have a direct responsibility in ensuring the things they sell on their storefront work as advertised––if not, then they need to accept responsibility and they themselves deal with the publisher/developer, not the consumer.

Edit: OP, I'd have the mind to just do a chargeback on your credit/debit card. But obviously you'll be banned from PSN.

That's exactly what I said to him. I was told that the same rules don't apply for digital products. I told him that was ridiculous.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I mean, games are software. Software has bugs sometimes. Idk where you established the expectation that you would receive a refund. I'm sure ninja theory is working on a fix.

Depending on what "a few hours" means steam would tell you a big nope.

And Walmart/GameStop/etc isn't taking an opened game back for full refund.

Of course, it's up to the discretion of the platform holder to refund when they feel it's necessary. They refunded a lot of no man's sky digital purchases.

 

[Sad Affleck]

I mean, games are software. Software has bugs sometimes. Idk where you established the expectation that you would receive a refund.

A game-stopping bug makes that game not fit for purpose. He is absolutely entitled to a refund.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Sony really has some shit policies around PSN.

As mentioned they really need to take a lead out of Steam/MS/GOG's book to be honest.

You should be able to refund anything you want if you don't like it.

 

[Dantis]

I mean, games are software. Software has bugs sometimes. Idk where you established the expectation that you would receive a refund. I'm sure ninja theory is working on a fix.

Depending on what "a few hours" means steam would tell you a big nope.

And Walmart/GameStop/etc isn't taking an opened game back for full refund.

Of course, it's up to the discretion of the platform holder to refund when they feel it's necessary. They refunded a lot of no man's sky digital purchases.

If a game has a bug that prevents me from progressing, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask for a refund.

 

[Jumeira]

How long did you play? I think MS allow instant refund, regardless of the reasons if your under 2 hours of playtime.

I really wish this was in place when FF15 was released, lost £50 on it, awful game.

 

[Hektor]

Sony doesn't even give you refunds if you buy 3 months of PSPlus and they accidentally give and charge you 3 times 3 months because of an "Internal System Error".

Shit tier service with shit tier customer support, in an industry in which the standards are already far lower than in any other.

 

[AzureSkies]

I mean, games are software. Software has bugs sometimes. Idk where you established the expectation that you would receive a refund. I'm sure ninja theory is working on a fix.

Depending on what "a few hours" means steam would tell you a big nope.

And Walmart/GameStop/etc isn't taking an opened game back for full refund.

Of course, it's up to the discretion of the platform holder to refund when they feel it's necessary. They refunded a lot of no man's sky digital purchases.

Please don't defend the archaic PSN refund system. It seriously needs fixing.

Kinda unrelated but Sony's support is also garbage too, I once got double charged for EDF 4.1 and they told me that if I chargebacked they would then determine if it was a 'legitimate' request, and if they felt otherwise, I would lose my account entirely.

needless to say, I didn't think it was worth losing my account over $50.

 

[Ikuu]

I mean, games are software. Software has bugs sometimes. Idk where you established the expectation that you would receive a refund. I'm sure ninja theory is working on a fix.

Depending on what "a few hours" means steam would tell you a big nope.

And Walmart/GameStop/etc isn't taking an opened game back for full refund.

Of course, it's up to the discretion of the platform holder to refund when they feel it's necessary. They refunded a lot of no man's sky digital purchases.

Why are you comparing a physical product to a digital one, lol.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's exactly what I said to him. I was told that the same rules don't apply for digital products. I told him that was ridiculous.

This is the reality publishers want to establish once everyone is purchasing/downloading digitally and cannot sell or buy used anymore... and they can control the rights as we all become licensers of software. Of course politics will be 20-30 years late in regulating this if they ever do and we risk being at the mercy of what digital publishers feel like we should deserve.

 

[mindsale]

US PSN customer service refunded me The Witness just because I disliked it.

 

[BloodOmenPT]

That's just bullshit on their part, Sony's terms and conditions are not the law. The European law specifically says that the vendor is responsible for the product or service it sells, be it physical or digital. So it's Sony responsibility to either replace the product, give you a working one (impossible in this case) or give you back your money. Ultimately, its the clients choice. Might take some time but file a complaint, it usually works, last time someone refused to give me a refund because they were taking too long to fix or replace a product under warranty (in that case it was a broken PS3) I filed a complaint. One year later, I get a letter saying that they were fined 5000 Euros for breaking the law, plus judicial expenses... for a 300 Euro refund.

 

[Shiggy]

As a citizen of the European Union, of which the UK is still part of, you have the right to a working product. If the seller (you bought the game from the PlayStation Store and thus the seller is Sony) refuses to fix the issue (e.g. by having the developer create a bug fix), then you are absolutely entitled to a refund.

In no way you as the consumer are supposed to contact anyone other than the seller of a product. That's also the reason for when your gaming system is broken that the retailer has to deal with it if you don't want to send it in to the manufacturer yourself.

 

[IvorB]

Sony's consumer hostile PSN policies are why are pretty much never buy anything from their store. Luckily here we have statutory regulations to keep companies like them in line and provide a recourse for consumers. If you are in UK too then you are covered.

 

[Panajev2001a]

A game-stopping bug makes that game not fit for purpose. He is absolutely entitled to a refund.

What do the PSN (or XBL) and Hellblade EULA’s say about this? I agree with you, but until someone sets a legal precedent on this or the laws / EULA’s state it clearly it is the difference from feeling entitled and being entitled.

Digital distribution is not just about publishers reducing costs and risk (which is big in and of itself), but also about users rights management for the publishers/platform owners... it is incredible that in addition to all of that hey were able to turn around and refuse to lower the prices for digital software as they also want people to pay for the “convenience” digital has...

 

[Buddy Mcpuddy]

Australia need to get on it so refunding is easy on PSN.

So far the ACCC are responding to individual complaints as Sony's EULA claims to override certain statutory warranties which is impossible under the Competition and Consumer Act.

This is how it starts, and then they go for the jugular.

 

[EvB]

As a citizen of the European Union, of which the UK is still part of, you have the right to a working product. If the seller (you bought the game from the PlayStation Store and thus the seller is Sony) refuses to fix the issue (e.g. by having the developer create a bug fix), then you are absolutely entitled to a refund.

In no way you as the consumer are supposed to contact anyone other than the seller of a product. That's also the reason for when your gaming system is broken that the retailer has to deal with it if you don't want to send it in to the manufacturer yourself.

Retailers are also allowed to give “reasonable time” in which to repair a faulty product, a patch will probably appear soon

 

[OriginalPoe]

I asked for a refund for No Man's Sky and was not only refused but told that if I requested another refund for the game my account would be banned. I was also informed if I performed a chargeback my account would be banned. (PSN)

It was a weird chat session.

 

[IvorB]

What do the PSN (or XBL) and Hellblade EULA's say about this? I agree with you, but until someone sets a legal precedent on this or the laws / EULA's state it clearly it is the difference from feeling entitled and being entitled.

Digital distribution is not just about publishers reducing costs and risk (which is big in and of itself), but also about users rights management for the publishers/platform owners... it is incredible that in addition to all of that hey were able to turn around and refuse to lower the prices for digital software as they also want people to pay for the ”convenience" digital has...

The EULA's are irrelevant. There are already laws on this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content

OP needs to go back to Sony and request his refund under the Consumer Rights Act (2015).

 

[Fafalada]

I was told that the only way a refund would ever be processed is if I contact Ninja Theory directly...

Let me guess, you're in UK right?
Not that it makes Sony policies any better - but "deferral of responsibility" seems to be the standard response from... well - just about every support department I've interacted with to date here.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Regardless of what Sony's policies are, it sounds like you ran into an exceptionally shitty employee. Did you ask to speak to a manager or supervisor? What a lousy way to treat your customer!

Also, it's laughable for this person to claim they have no responsibility for the game they're selling you on their store front to be functional.

 

[Snoopycat]

The EULA's are irrelevant. There are already laws on this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content

OP needs to go back to Sony and request his refund under the Consumer Rights Act (2015).

Doesn't matter. I tried to get a refund for 7 Days which was a broken mess. I quoted them parts of the digital rights during the call and was refused. I then sent an email requesting a refund with a link embedded and was refused again. Sony's UK customer service is a joke.

 

[ArtHands]

I mean, games are software. Software has bugs sometimes. Idk where you established the expectation that you would receive a refund. I'm sure ninja theory is working on a fix.

Depending on what "a few hours" means steam would tell you a big nope.

And Walmart/GameStop/etc isn't taking an opened game back for full refund.

Of course, it's up to the discretion of the platform holder to refund when they feel it's necessary. They refunded a lot of no man's sky digital purchases.

No need to spread lies. Steam will refund you even with more than 2 hours of gameplay if the case is legitimate. 2 hours of gameplay is just a guideline not a fixed rule.

 

[MattAces]

I bought EVE Valkyrie, and the game was lagging for me online, 5 minutes chat got me a refund.

 

[Zok310]

That's a pretty nasty bug, had no idea this was going on.
In the past I have received credit from PSN for a few purchases but it was pretty much a few hours after purchase. Seems like Sony turns their backs once you put some time in the game. Either way a bug this bad should allow for at least a partial refund.
A friend a few years back got his whole account banned for getting a refund, dude had over level 20 in trophies been with PSN since day one and Sony banned his ass. Had to make a whole new account and start from scratch. The solution for him was to just purchase from Best Buy and GS.

 

[Dantis]

Just called a second time as I never got the manager callback that I requested. Was told it can take up to 48 hours for a manager to call back.

Was then fed the same BS.

 

[mnemonicj]

Sony needs to get with the program. Unfortunately, as consumers our only current option is to not invest in their ecosystem.
Hopefully they come around soon.

 

[Caronte]

Digital future on consoles and all that. Enjoy.

 

[Caayn]

Digital future on consoles and all that. Enjoy.

There are plenty of digital store fronts that do accept refunds, including the Xbox marketplace.

 

[Snoopycat]

Digital future on consoles and all that. Enjoy.

Microsoft are currently testing a refund system which is similar to Steam's so I see no reason why Sony can't do the same. I got a refund for a game on my American PSN account with no problems although they heavily emphasized it was a one time thing which is ridiculous but at least I got my money back.

 

[edbrat]

if the customer service, returns policy is shit then that impacts my perception of value for everything on the platform. So the console platforms, itunes where you're totally fucked if practically anything goes wrong I just don't use much, only for a few tentpole bankers ie, Mariokart tier type release.

Amazon otoh has such good CS I try and buy everything from there, esp big ticket items bc if it goes wrong they don't fuck around. That peace of mind is worth dollars to me.

 

[Sad Affleck]

if the customer service, returns policy is shit then that impacts my perception of value for everything on the platform. So the console platforms, itunes where you're totally fucked if practically anything goes wrong I just don't use much, only for a few tentpole bankers ie, Mariokart tier type release.

Amazon otoh has such good CS I try and buy everything from there, esp big ticket items bc if it goes wrong they don't fuck around. That peace of mind is worth dollars to me.

I just thought of something. Amazon sells PSN games, right? If you buy a PSN game from them and it doesn't work, can you ask for a refund from Amazon?

 

[gogogow]

I thought Steam added the refund policy because of EU laws? Or am I mistaken?
So why aren't Sony, Nintendo and MS pressured in doing so?

 

[Family Fry]

I must say if one thing pisses me off beyond belief it's a lack of uniformity.

You get people who are "allowed" refunds and then you get muppets like me who call and speak to someone who says, na fuck you because.

This happened a good while back on PS3 when I had managed to use up all my activations, I hadn't realised you had to manually disable activations.

Called up knowing people who had got their activations reset over the phone, here's me speaking to some guy refusing to do it. A few months later, still with no access to any of my previously bought games they put it on a web site so you could do it yourself!

Still even to this day UK PSN customer service is the absolute drizzling shits.

 

[Ossom]

Consumer rights may help you depending on what country you are in.


I'm in the UK and when I asked for a refund for drive club vr because it was causing motion sickness they did it straight away.

 

[test_account]

It can be pretty problematic to determine if a piece of software is faulty or not, and how that is defined. Generally speaking, random bugs can happen. That is probably why the guy in the Sony customer service wanted you to get some statement from the developer themself.

This has to be about goodwill. You have to trust that the game is faulty if a consumer says so. This can very easily be abused though, could just claim that one encountered a bug in the game 10-20 hours in and cant proceed, then get a refund.

 

[13ruce]

Pretty insane tbh even xbox has a refund policy now, how can Sony even bypass this in Europe for example it's pure crap customer service.

If a game has game breaking bugs wich make you need to wait weeks for a patch or start over a refund should be a normal thing you can do.

It's hilarious to tell your loyal customers no out of pure corporate greed. I remember the No Mans Sky ones/refund threads where they said well for a one time goodwill we will refund your money.

It's hilarious how bad their customer support is for a market leader game console wise.

 

[IvorB]

Doesn't matter. I tried to get a refund for 7 Days which was a broken mess. I quoted them parts of the digital rights during the call and was refused. I then sent an email requesting a refund with a link embedded and was refused again. Sony's UK customer service is a joke.

It does matter because it's the law. However, if Sony is not playing ball then you need to go through the channels provided in the law for dispute resolution. Typically this will involve looping in a third-party regulatory body. Or at the very least calling the Consumer Service as advised:

Citizens Advice is now the primary source of information and advice on these new laws for consumers through its Consumer Service. You can call our consumer helpline on 03454 04 05 06 or you can talk to a Welsh-speaking adviser on 03454 04 05 05. The helplines are open Monday to Friday 9.00am to 5.00pm. They are not open on bank holidays. Alternatively you can e-mail us your consumer inquiry using the form on our website.

Depends how militant you feel about it but at least you now know better than to buy digital goods from PSN.

 

[irrotational]

There are plenty of digital store fronts that do accept refunds, including the Xbox marketplace.

Xbox does do refunds now.

 

[Equanimity]

Sony doesn't even give you refunds if you buy 3 months of PSPlus and they accidentally give and charge you 3 times 3 months because of an "Internal System Error".

Shit tier service with shit tier customer support, in an industry in which the standards are already far lower than in any other.

I had this happen to me but I was charged twice instead - Sony refunded me without an issue.

 

[jayu26]

We need to organize a proper Facebook/tweeter/social media campaign to convince Sony to make a proper refund policy.

 

[Papercuts]

I had this happen to me but I was charged twice instead - Sony refunded me without an issue.

Which is even more of a mess because you can sometimes get refunds, sometimes cancel a preorder, etc. but other times get totally blocked out by CS and get nowhere.

There is zero consistency on top of the many other problems. Not a fun experience being raked over the coals out of random chance.

 

[RRockman]

Make a big stink, they'll change their tune quickly. Maybe you can get your story posted on sites like kotaku for notoriety?

 

[Equanimity]

Which is even more of a mess because you can sometimes get refunds, sometimes cancel a preorder, etc. but other times get totally blocked out by CS and get nowhere.

There is zero consistency on top of the many other problems. Not a fun experience being raked over the coals out of random chance.

That's true. It could be related to the laws of the land.

 

[no angel]

I'm fairly sure it's on Sony to attempt to fix this and not you to contact the publisher in the UK.

There's a Which link here which explains your rights and includes a template complaint letter.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-get-a-refund-on-a-digital-download