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[Wazzy]

Wow. I don't think either one of your examples are inappropriate.

....seriously? You don't see how using terms ape and monkey to a black person is inappropriate? Really?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Except that's not the same situation at all.

Let me give two examples that would be inappropriate but someone might not understand the meaning and negative connotation behind their words:

Let's say a white man is arguing with a black man and the white man says "stop going apeshit" or pretending the white guy started it by saying "stop monkeying around"

And

The British man says to a GAY man, pass him a fag.

Both are inappropriate and it's because there's deep meaning behind both words.

It's knowing when to use certain words and phrases appropriately and this conference was not it.

Because this was a male and female playing
and the male was dominating, what he said was inappropriate.

All of those things completely depend on the situation. If you're directing "apeshit" or "monkeying around" at a black person and using in a way that its supposed to demean the person for being black then its offensive. That doesn't mean I can never walk up to black friends of mine and say "stop monkeying around". They wouldn't get offended at me saying it because they know I'm not using it as an insult to their race, with simple logical reasoning they'd be able to understand that its a common turn of phase.

Could it still be used as a derogatory term towards black people? Sure. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean I should never use that phrase when talking to a black person, because the phrase can have multiple intents. And again, that distinction comes down to context.

 

[RMI]

....seriously? You don't see how using terms ape and monkey to a black person is inappropriate? Really?

it depends on if you're calling them a monkey or an ape because they're black.

also, i don't think the etymology for fag=cigarette in England has anything to do with gay people.

 

[BluePigGanon]

....seriously? You don't see how using terms ape and monkey to a black person is inappropriate? Really?

Seriously? The legitimate words "ape" and "monkey" are now off limits in the presence of a black person? Because some racists have used those words in a different way? Really? So now we need to do earmuffs when we refer to primates of any kind if there's a black person in the room?

Come on.

All of those things completely depend on the situation.

Exactly. It's all intent.

 

[androvsky]

The strange thing is the phrase "just let it happen" didn't sound too obviously like a rape joke to me, but the guy later on even says "Ah, you're enjoying this aren't you?" which sounds a lot more obvious. But no one's mentioned that part, is it just me?

 

[RMI]

The strange thing is the phrase "just let it happen" didn't sound too obviously like a rape joke to me, but the guy later on even says "Ah, you're enjoying this aren't you?" which sounds a lot more obvious. But no one's mentioned that part, is it just me?

no, it definitely got more gross as it went on. There was also a parallel to the stories you hear on the news about girls getting assaulted while drunk and then there pics getting spread around on the web when he was showing off the sharing functions on the Xbone.

I'd say the whole thing was pretty weird and gross, but whatever I might be too sensitive.

 

[plagiarize]

Just because words and phrases have multiple meanings doesn't mean you should eliminate those terms or words from vocabulary. That's why context is important.

Just like I said last page, you wouldn't go to England, see someone ask for a fag, and then label that person as homophobic. Because the context doesn't warrant it. Fag is still a terrible thing to call a homosexual and you should never do it out of respect. But that doesn't mean everytime you hear the word that you should automatically get
offended, because it has different meanings and contexts depending on where you are
and what is happening in the moment.

offense doesn't wait until logic has analyzed the context of what was said. if no offence is intended we should all be mindful of what other meanings what we are saying has, because we can't control the context in which other people will *perceive* it.

when I was reading a novel that said a six year old girl burnt her fanny, my instant reaction as someone from Britain was abject horror. that I could logically tell myself that it actually meant her bottom, didn't undo the effect of reading that original statement.

when I found out the very specific connotation 'lynch' has here in America, I made sure never to use it, and I thanked the person who informed me about it.

I didn't tell them to get over themselves.

Seriously? The legitimate words "ape" and "monkey" are now off limits in the presence of a black person? Because some racists have used those words in a different way? Really? So now we need to do earmuffs when we refer to primates of any kind if there's a black person in the room?

Come on.

the person hearing what you say isn't psychic. is it asking that much of you to use other words or to phrase what you say very clearly?

 

[Wazzy]

All of those things completely depend on the situation. If you're directing "apeshit" or "monkeying around" at a black person and using in a way that its supposed to demean the person for being black then its offensive. That doesn't mean I can never walk up to black friends of mine and say "stop monkeying around". They wouldn't get offended at me saying it because they know I'm not using it as an insult to their race, with simple logical reasoning they'd be able to understand that its a common turn of phase.

Could it still be used as a derogatory term towards black people? Sure. Absolutely. But that doesn't mean I should never use that phrase when talking to a black person, because the phrase can have multiple intents. And again, that distinction comes down to context.

I'm curious are you black or gay? Why do you think you get to say it's okay to use those terms around them depending on the context? If they're uncomfortable with them, they should not have to put up with people using them. I mean even If you were either, you don't get to speak for every black or gay person.

I'm not saying the reaction should be to vilify them and condemn them for what they said but it should be pointed out that using that language isn't appropriate.

If you want to say it between your friends then fine but there's a time and place for that stuff and in front of thousands of people is not it.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

offense doesn't wait until logic has analyzed the context of what was said. if no offence is intended we should all be mindful of what other meanings what we are saying has, because we can't control the context in which other people will *perceive* it.

when I was reading a novel that said a six year old girl burnt her fanny, my instant reaction as someone from Britain was abject horror. that I could logically tell myself that it actually meant her bottom, didn't undo the
effect of reading that original statement.

when I found out the very specific connotation 'lynch' has here in America, I made sure never to use it, and I thanked the person who informed me about it.

I didn't tell them to get over themselves.

Of course knee jerk reactions to things can't be changed, but all you have to do is take the time to understand the situation to determine if you over reacted or not. Your first gut instinct to things isn't always correct, whether it is what you are offended at or decisions you make in life its always
more beneficial to examine the context and take time to understand the situation before passing judgement.

I'm curious are you black or gay? Why do you think you get to say it's okay to use those terms around them depending on the context? If they're uncomfortable with them, they should not have to put up with people using them. I mean even If you were either, you don't get to speak for every black or gay person.

I'm not saying the reaction should be to vilify them and condemn them for what they said but it should be pointed out that using that language isn't appropriate.

If you want to say it between your friends then fine but there's a time and place for that stuff and in front of thousands of people is not it.

I'm not saying that no one should get offended at things. I'm saying that just because a phase can be used in an offensive way doesn't mean every use of it should be eliminated. In the context of video games
the phrase that was used isn't actually there to imply that someone is going to get raped. Its there to shit talk how bad you're dominating people at a video game. There hasn't been any indication that rape would happen after the phrase is said when playing a video game so people should be able to look at what's being said and determine that there is no real threat or indication that the player is doing anything but shit talking in a video game.

Just as there might be black people who get offended at me saying they're going apeshit,
but the vast majority would understand its a common turn of phrase and that I'm using it
without the intention of demeaning their race. Honestly that's not even remotely comparable because those phrases have been so prominent that if I was casually using it when talking to a black person and they judged me as a racist I'd be just as offended that he painted me with such a broad brush for using such a common and well known phrase in a perfectly reasonable situation. At least in this situation if you're not familiar with the lingo that comes with video games you might not understand the phrase.

Anyone watching a video game conference that hears that phrase should understand what the context of the phrase means in
that situation. And if they don't, it should be explained to them to give them an
understanding of the situation and see that it doesn't mean what they're assuming it means.

And I think that a video game conference is a perfectly reasonable place to use the phrase considering that all the person was doing was making a terrible hokey stage attempt at imitating what people have been saying online and in arcades for years.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

....seriously? You don't see how using terms ape and monkey to a black person is inappropriate? Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0R3OjMcOqg

Jokes aside, you're really making a stretch that "monkeying around" and "going apeshit" are offensive to black people. Those statements are based off of how those animals are perceived to act, monkeys make mischief and apes get angry. The racist connection between primates and African Americans is this idea that they're dark, come from the jungles of Africa, and are less evolved than humans. It would be like if Sarah Jessica Parker was causing trouble and someone told her to "stop horsing around." Its meant to be a comment on the way she's acting, not the way she looks.

 

[Wazzy]

Seriously? The legitimate words "ape" and "monkey" are now off limits in the presence of a black person? Because some racists have used those words in a different way? Really? So now we need to do earmuffs when we refer to primates of any kind if there's a black person in the room?

Come on.

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth. I said referring to something a black person is doing or acting like with those words is off-limits unless set rules between you and the person allow it.

 

[BluePigGanon]

the person hearing what you say isn't psychic. is it asking that much of you to use other words or to phrase what you say very clearly?

Honestly, yes: it is too much to ask people to not use normal, everyday words that might have a twisted meaning in some peculiar cases (like "monkey" in front of a black person). That's not reasonable. I think it's a lot more reasonable for people to give each other the benefit of the doubt and not just assume an ugly meaning like that, unless it's obvious the word is being used aggressively/insultingly/offensively.

I'm sorry, maybe that's just a terrible example. I studied physical anthropology in college, the notion I need to do a quick pigmentation check before talking about apes or monkeys is just political correctness in it's most perverse form.

 

[Anticitizen One]

you know for all the shit I get for some of my threads (which admittedly sometimes do get silly) I have to say this one of the dumbest if not THE dumbest thread I have ever seen on Gaf. If this is what one of your big take aways was from Microsofts E3 conference then you probably don't even care about video games in the first place.

 

[plagiarize]

Of course knee jerk reactions to things can't be changed, but all you have to do is take the time to understand the situation to determine if you over reacted or not. Your first gut instinct to things isn't always correct, whether it is what you are offended at or decisions you make in life its always more beneficial to examine the context and take time to understand the situation before passing judgement.

it is your responsibility to ensure that the things you say are understood in the way you intend them... yes? why wouldn't you want to avoid using words and phrases that could be misunderstood in very negative ways?

if you don't know the way they could be construed, I give you the benefit of the doubt. if you do, and you continue to use them, then I think the problem lies with you at that point.

 

[Wazzy]

you know for all the shit I get for some of my threads (which admittedly sometimes do get silly) I have to say this one of the dumbest if not THE dumbest thread I have ever seen on Gaf. If this is what one of your big take aways was from Microsofts E3 conference then you probably don't even care about video games in the first place.

I think this is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on GAF and adds nothing to the discussion.
If you think that then just go look through my post history for proof that I like videogames.

 

[1337]

People like you are what's wrong with America. There's nothing to make a stink out of here, besides the game being a turd.

 

[Mitchings]

One thing that particularly annoyed me were how many articles made the jump from this to the subject of feminism. If someone has a stick up their arse and a chip on their shoulder they'll twist anything to their agenda. Making leaps from one thing to another.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

it is your responsibility to ensure that the things you say are understood in the way you intend them... yes? why wouldn't you want to avoid using words and phrases that could be misunderstood in very negative ways?

if you don't know the way they could be construed, I give you the benefit of the doubt. if you do, and you continue to use them, then I think the problem lies with you at that point.

In both of these situations the offensive terms are only offensive because of secondary contexts. Monkeying around and apeshit weren't made to be offensive phrases from their inception so when using them I assume people understand what the phrases mean in the first place. The only way they become racist is because of context and situation. The phrases themselves weren't meant with a racist intent so I don't see a problem using them to anyone.

In America the first context anyone thinks of when hearing the word Fag is a derogatory term towards gay people. So I don't use it because the first context people go into from that is that I don't like gay people, which is something I wouldn't want to project about myself. Same thing with the N-Word. I don't use it because in every context going from a white person to a black person it's a demeaning term towards their race, and I don't want people to think I'm racist, so I don't use it.

There's no context that proceeds those
terms, so I stay away from them. If you're saying those words the reason you're using them is to demean others. There's no innocent ways to say those words because they were born out of hate. They only have one real intent and it was the intent they were created with. But I'm not going to stop using common phrases in casual conversation to certain people just because they might misconstrue my
meaning and get offended.

 

[Pyronite]

People like you are what's wrong with America.

I'd love for you to walk up to a female who had an immediate visceral/sad reaction at the comment and say that.

In a gaming community where rape is used as an everyday term for how bad/good someone is doing, I don't know how people who comment on it leaking into a multi-million dollar press conference are the worst people in America.