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[TheDarkPhantom]

Not unexpected, it's crazy how Dreams took MM off the board for 10 years but ultimately ended as a "failure". I do wonder how much their super-woke culture affected development overall, I'm sure the place is full of that "certain type" of person and it had an effect on productivity and the workplace environment as a whole but who knows, maybe they are the ones being fired

 

[diffusionx]

I don't know why they are still in business, honestly. Dreams was a total nothing and other devs can make perfectly good Sackboy games.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

People didn't even use that shit. the beta they did was a complete failure.

They lost game-making talent.

now they have a useless engine and no people to make games. Dreams destroyed MM

I did use it and I made money off it. More people did. There were digital artists that moved over to Dreams exclusively.

The problem was Dreams being tied to a closed platform.
Although there are ways to use Dreams professionally for music/art/animation.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It’s a game + game creator. Like arguing Mario Maker isn’t a game.



This feels like an unfair characterization. It might have underwhelmed commercially, but as a product it was nothing short of brilliant.

Blame Sony for not putting it on PC to try to capture some of the education market etc. though perhaps I’m looking at things too simplistically and they might have had metrics to show it wouldn’t have done well on PC.

I just think there’s a wider market for stuff like that on PC.

I love how the responsibility to port Dreams falls on Sony and not media molecule.

 

[Mowcno]

I don't even think Sony expected Dreams to sell millions.

Media molecule apparently had 135 employees and dreams is the only thing they've released in almost 10 years. (Except a tearaway PS4 remaster).

It's fine to have smaller projects that don't sell as well, but it doesn't seem like the return on investment for dreams was good.

 

[lh032]

I don't even think Sony expected Dreams to sell millions.

im nottttt sureee though.
I mean....Isnt Sony/Playstation wants to create blockbuster games that sell millions??

thats the main reason why they acquire game studios in the first place?

I think Sony is giving as much freedom to MM, but sadly the result isnt what they wanted.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Media molecule apparently had 135 employees and dreams is the only thing they've released in almost 10 years. (Except a tearaway PS4 remaster).

It's fine to have smaller projects that don't sell as well, but it doesn't seem like the return on investment for dreams was good.

True, that's why the layoffs shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I did use it and I made money off it. More people did. There were digital artists that moved over to Dreams exclusively.

The problem was Dreams being tied to a closed platform.
Although there are ways to use Dreams professionally for music/art/animation.

You and a dozen more. that is the point.

Dreams was a categoric failure that damaged MM as a videogame developer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I don't know why they are still in business.

Because they're not that big, they made a very successful franchise in LBP, and studios that make critically acclaimed games don't grow on trees.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Cancel Dreams, develop Little Big Planet 4, profit?

 

[adamsapple]

I love how the responsibility to port Dreams falls on Sony and not media molecule.

The publisher commissions the port.

Sony is the publisher.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

im nottttt sureee though.
I mean....Sony wants to create blockbuster games that sell millions??

thats the main reason why they acquire game studios?

I think Sony is giving as much freedom to MM, but sadly the result isnt what they wanted.

Sony has no problem with non-blockbuster projects.

And it's not like they're shutting down MM.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You and a dozen more. that is the point.

Dreams was a categoric failure that damaged MM as a videogame developer.

You know, maybe you're right.

I know for a fact that Dreams is way too complicated and too deep for the average consumer to even get a basic understanding.
That's why it was community-focused and allowed for people to use anyone's creations in their own creations.

That's why I said Sony probably didn't expect to sell millions.

 

[lh032]

Sony has no problem with non-blockbuster projects.

And it's not like they're shutting down MM.

I would believe you if they did not close down japan studios

 

[diffusionx]

You know, maybe you're right.

I know for a fact that Dreams is way too complicated and too deep for the average consumer to even get a basic understanding.
That's why it was community-focused and allowed for people to use anyone's creations in their own creations.

That's why I said Sony probably didn't expect to sell millions.

Realistically, SCE's staff is set up to produce and oversee games. Dreams is not a game, it is a tool. They don't have the structure to support and release that. Like, they're not Adobe. They're not Epic. And they're not going to make that shift because their one studio in the UK is doodling away at this indefinitely. They don't want to get in the third party engine business. So they just kind of put it out there to see what they have, it didn't go anywhere, and it died.

Because they're not that big, they made a very successful franchise in LBP, and studios that make critically acclaimed games don't grow on trees.

They haven't made a game in a decade and all the people that make critically acclaimed games left long ago. I don't think MM today is capable of making Tearaway, or LBP. They need to essentially become a brand new studio.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The publisher commissions the port.

Sony is the publisher.

Sony isn't a random publisher commissioning titles from its subsidiaries. Sony let's them work on titles they want to work on. If they felt that Dreams on PC would save the company and would take it to a scale that they hadn't seen, they would have.

Just like the decision not to make a Days Gone 2 was Bend's not Sony's.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You know, maybe you're right.

I know for a fact that Dreams is way too complicated and too deep for the average consumer to even get a basic understanding.
That's why it was community-focused and allowed for people to use anyone's creations in their own creations.

That's why I said Sony probably didn't expect to sell millions.

and as I told you. it is not about "selling millions" Tha game engine didn't take off in the first place. The beta they did, didn't fill out in the first place.

Dont get me wrong. Dreams is a technical achievement. but c'mon they didn't read the room at all

Dreams was supposed to be their Roblox.

 

[Elder Legend]

I can't comment on Mario Maker, but Dreams isn't a game.

Whatever MM made for the "sp-campaign" was more tech-demo for Dreams' capabilities than anything.

But it's irrelevant, because at the end of the day, Sony is a company that needs revenue and something like Dreams isn't going to cut it.

The other issue was that Dreams was the type of "game" that would have been far better to be played on a PC. PC modding and customization is where it's at.

I am not really sure what the point or goal was of Dreams and why it was even greenlit. It's a cool tech demo but as you said it's not a game that you start from point A to point B. LittleBigPlanet at least had a campaign and the way custom levels worked made sense for it and was far more of an actual game with a lot of customization that was quite good for a console. I enjoyed the OG games.

Is MM even working on anything new or?

 

[adamsapple]

Sony isn't a random publisher commissioning titles from its subsidiaries. Sony let's them work on titles they want to work on. If they felt that Dreams on PC would save the company and would take it to a scale that they hadn't seen, they would have.

Just like the decision not to make a Days Gone 2 was Bend's not Sony's.

Not only are you wrong, but the second example you used, about Days Gone 2, is also wrong.

Days Gone Director Says It’s Weird Sony Never Greenlit Sequel Despite Good Sales

Days Gone director has claimed that Sony’s decision not to greenlight a sequel was weird and was made to feel a disappointment.

www.gamebyte.com

The publisher greenlights sequels / ports. The developers cannot make a port to another device on their own without publisher go ahead. Only if they're self-publishing, but neither Media Molecule, nor Bend are in that position.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

and as I told you. it is not about "selling millions" Tha game engine didn't take off in the first place. The beta they did, didn't fill out in the first place.

Dont get me wrong. Dreams is a technical achievement. but c'mon they didn't read the room at all

Dreams was supposed to be their Roblox.

Then it's a matter of semantics, because I don't see how Dreams failed as an engine, or a tool.
It does what it's supposed to do.

Now if you want to consider it a game, the yeah, it failed.

I would believe you if they did not close down japan studios

Sure, because at some point, you can't have studios release non-blockbusters one after the other without reliable revenue.

That's why we see layoffs and not full shut down.

Realistically, SCE's staff is set up to produce and oversee games. Dreams is not a game, it is a tool. They don't have the structure to support and release that. Like, they're not Adobe. They're not Epic. And they're not going to make that shift because their one studio in the UK is doodling away at this indefinitely. They don't want to get in the third party engine business. So they just kind of put it out there to see what they have, it didn't go anywhere, and it died.

Have to agree, but that is kind of what I was talking about.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

They haven't made a game in a decade

Dreams released in 2021.

and all the people that make critically acclaimed games left long ago.

Dreams earned a 90 Opencritic score.

I don't think MM today is capable of making Tearaway, or LBP. They need to essentially become a brand new studio.

It doesn't matter what you think. You and I don't know **** about the studio. It's what Herman Hulst thinks and he thinks the studio has enough talent to give them another chance.

There's some story about a scout watching running back Barry Sanders during a particular play. Barry lost 3 yards on the play but made a couple of tacklers miss so the scout said "He's awesome. We have to draft him."

BuT hE LoSt 3 yArDs On ThE pLaY!

Talent like that doesn't grow on trees my friend.

 

[Whitecrow]

All they had to do was Little Big Planet HUB.

But someone screwed all decisions.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Media Molecule doesn’t really fit with Sony’s other Studios.

I feel like they’d both be better off parting ways.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Then it's a matter of semantics, because I don't see how Dreams failed as an engine, or a tool.
It does what it's supposed to do.

Now if you want to consider it a game, then yeah, it most likely failed.

it failed at everything.

as an engine, game and platform.

maybe for you, it didn't. but the facts say otherwise.

 

[Sethbacca]

It's crazt that they never brought Dreams to PC. Made basically the most sense of all their first party games.

Equally crazy they didn't take advantage of PSVR2

 

[diffusionx]

Dreams released in 2021.


Dreams earned a 90 Opencritic score.


It doesn't matter what you think. You and I don't know **** about the studio. It's what Herman Hulst thinks and he thinks the studio has enough talent to give them another chance.

There's some story about a scout watching running back Barry Sanders during a particular play. Barry lost 3 yards on the play but made a couple of tacklers miss so the scout said "He's awesome. We have to draft him."

BuT hE LoSt 3 yArDs On ThE pLaY!

Talent like that doesn't grow on trees my friend.

Dreams isn't a game.

 

[SiahWester]

It's crazt that they never brought Dreams to PC. Made basically the most sense of all their first party games.

I was really looking forward to it too. Such a bummer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Dreams isn't a game.

 

[Pipoqueiro]

Sony made a very big mistake taking their LBP and throwing it to sumo digital
It was my favorite franchise on the PS3;
LBP 3 has so many load problems that it has become unplayable

 

[Shakka43]

The problem with Dreams is that it lacks soul, everything feels dark, sad and hollow about it. The game/engine is too artistic and unwelcoming to the casual player, it's nothing like LBP with its charming Sackboys accompanied by a very fun story mode or something like Roblox which attracts to kids and teens with simplistic but vivid designs.

 

[Topher]

They are probably Sony’s worst performing studio. They are lucky they have not been closed.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The problem with Dreams is that it lacks soul, everything feels dark, sad and hollow about it. The game/engine is too artistic and unwelcoming to the casual player, it's nothing like LBP with its charming Sackboys accompanied by a very fun story mode or something like Roblox which attracts to kids and teens with simplistic but vivid designs.

i think it had all the soul in the world.

But it's vision and execution were botched.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Not only are you wrong, but the second example you used, about Days Gone 2, is also wrong.

Days Gone Director Says It’s Weird Sony Never Greenlit Sequel Despite Good Sales

Days Gone director has claimed that Sony’s decision not to greenlight a sequel was weird and was made to feel a disappointment.

www.gamebyte.com

The publisher greenlights sequels / ports. The developers cannot make a port to another device on their own without publisher go ahead. Only if they're self-publishing, but neither Media Molecule, nor Bend are in that position.

I watched the actual interview he gave, and he specifically said it was the decision of local management not Sony.

Sony does not have a traditional publisher developer relationship with its studios.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

it failed at everything.

as an engine, game and platform.

maybe for you, it didn't. but the facts say otherwise.

So, you haven't properly used it or followed the community.

Gotcha.

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony made a very big mistake taking their LBP and throwing it to sumo digital
It was my favorite franchise on the PS3;
LBP 3 has so many load problems that it has become unplayable

There is not an audience on PS4 or PS5 for platformers.

Even Rift Apart wasn't a runaway success.

LBP was on the decline and it made sense to farm the game out to Sumo Digital. A lot of times doing projects like this can lead to greater partnerships and potentially M&A.

Look at Bluepoint.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So, you haven't properly used it or followed the community.

Gotcha.

Let's just agree to disagree.

you dont end support to something that is successful.

and have you see the title of this very thread?

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Surprised they aren’t closed down for good. Marketing for the original LBP/Sackboy Maskot must have cost more than the studio earned in its lifetime.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

you dont end support to something that is successful.

and have you see the title of this very thread?

Read what I said earlier. I've been pretty clear on what I'm saying.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Read what I said earlier. I've been pretty clear on what I'm saying.

so do i.

 

[adamsapple]

I watched the actual interview he gave, and he specifically said it was the decision of local management not Sony.

Sony does not have a traditional publisher developer relationship with its studios.

I don't even know why you're arguing this point, Jeff has directly stated his disappointment at Sony not green lighting the sequel. It doesn't matter if 1 person or 100 people at Bend wanted to make the sequel, without the publishers approval and funding, it's not gonna be made.

There's no ifs ands or buts about it.

Aside from Resistance and Syphon Filter, the director talked about Days Gone 2 saying that the pitch was dead on arrival and Sony wasn't interested in it. "It did get reviewed on a level right above the studio, but I don’t think it went any further than that. The reviews were through the lens of 'the first one was a trainwreck in so many ways and didn’t sell awesome, so let's just keep these guys busy'."

Too much time has passed, and over 90 people from the original team have left the studio. And Sony just doesn't seem to care for it.

 

[Murdok]

Apparently the Xbox will go bankrupt in 2027 and will take the Playstation with it

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Yeah, for a 90MC game it failed hard as fuck in every category. It’s non existent in gaming pop culture, didn’t sell well, isn’t making money as a service isn’t moving consoles and the only times it’s brought up in a enthusiasts gaming forum is to talk about its failures and shortcomings and how it lead or will lead to shutting down or the firing of people within MM.

It’s worse than Driveclub, which is at least positively mentioned in racing threads.

It’s PS4s Lair.

 

[FeralEcho]

Yeah, for a 90MC game it failed hard as fuck in every category. It’s non existent in gaming pop culture, didn’t sell well, isn’t making money as a service isn’t moving consoles and the only times it’s brought up in a enthusiasts gaming forum is to talk about its failures and shortcomings and how it lead or will lead to shutting down or the firing of people within MM.

It’s worse than Driveclub, which is at least positively mentioned in racing threads.

It’s PS4s Lair.

I've had more fun with Dreams creations than 80% of the garbage that "sells" nowadays.

And Driveclub is also my favourite racing game of all time,another one that apparently was a failure.Couldnt give two shits what the mainstream or the fucking normies think of this gem.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Wish sony were as lenient on evolution studios as they are on media molecule. It's probably because they created little big planet but sony have done fuck all with the ip in ages.

 

[Sanepar]

They should close this studio they only make crap.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't even know why you're arguing this point, Jeff has directly stated his disappointment at Sony not green lighting the sequel. It doesn't matter if 1 person or 100 people at Bend wanted to make the sequel, without the publishers approval and funding, it's not gonna be made.

There's no ifs ands or buts about it.

This is well documented. Watch the interview.

 

[Ozriel]

I love how the responsibility to port Dreams falls on Sony and not media molecule.

They don’t make that decision, and Sony has to fund it as their publisher.

Sony clearly puts a lot of thought into what first party games get ported to PC.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

They don’t make that decision, and Sony has to fund it as their publisher.

Sony clearly puts a lot of thought into what first party games get ported to PC.

It's a two-way discussion.

 

[GeoramA]

I like Dreams, but they spent way too much time on it. And it was niche at that.

Hoping their next game is a hit.

 

[adamsapple]

This is well documented. Watch the interview.

The statement I quoted from Ross is from this year May, the interview is more than a year old.

Also, I can't believe you really think the publisher isn't the one who green lights games

It's a two-way discussion.

Yeah, the developer pitches the game, the publisher approves and funds it. That's how it usually goes.