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[Dalek]

FANBOY RAMPAGE: DAN SLOTT VS. BLEEDING COOL'S HANNAH MEANS-SHANNON

This is a summarized version-but this is basically Slott pissed at BleedingCool's story last week where they summarized the upcoming new slate of Marvel titles after Secret Wars ends, with rosters and creator teams before Marvel officially revealed it.

Amazing Spider-Man writer Dan Slott took some shots at Bleeding Cool Editor in Chief Hannah Means-Shannon on Twitter today after an interview with Means-Shannon on the Word Balloon podcast raised his hackles. The tweets were taken from Tweetdeck, as Slott has blocked both The Outhouse and myself on Twitter for reasons unknown:

Oooh! Bleeding Cool is extorting Marvel for the payola (read: exclusive access to talent and information) Marvel regularly and willingly exchanges with media outlets in for fawning press coverage! How dare they?!

At the heart of this issue is the belief of Dan Slott, and some of the top brass at Marvel, that the purpose of the comic book press is to serve Marvel's interests. That if the press isn't helping to sell comic books for Marvel, they should be treated with hostility and are somehow failing in their duty as journalists.

They're wrong though. The purpose of the press isn't to sell comics. It's to inform (and entertain) the people, who are, in this case, the comic book reading audience and the readers of Bleeding Cool. Those readers don't care if Marvel gets to consummate their relationship with their "media partners" at CBR, Newsarama, IGN, USA Today, Entertainment Weekly, Nerdist, or whatever big name site they are giving an "EXCLUSIVE" to on any particular day. They just want to know about comics news, and don't need it spoonfed to them with publisher-approved glorified press releases.

Bleeding Cool is indeed helping the comic book industry. They're helping it by keeping it honest and by speaking honestly to fans instead of trying to sell them products on the behalf of publishers. That may not be the kind of "help" Dan Slott is looking for, but it's not Bleeding Cool's problem if Dan Slott has to work harder to rush out a fluff interview with a media partner. They aren't morally obligated to protect Marvel's agenda.

 

[excelsiorlef]

If BD actually said give us an exclusive or we'll leak your bigger news, then yeah that actually is extortion.

 

[Escape Goat]

Im finding it hard to care about any of this. But thats probably how I feel about all Twitter wars.

 

[Kevinroc]

Actually, it's about ethics in comic book journalism.

 

[Parallax]

lets throw them both in a ring and let them duke it out

 

[excelsiorlef]

Not to mention the reporting was shoddy, ie calling Squirrel Girl Black Widow

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Actually, it's about ethics in comic book journalism.

Comic Gate?

 

[Crud]

Im finding it hard to care about any of this. But thats probably how I feel about all Twitter wars.

.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't care, Slott. I want comic news, they're journalists (ish).

 

[Sandfox]

I'm not really a fan of Bleedingcool because they do some iffy things at times.

 

[WanderingWind]

How dare a blogger not follow the carefully laid out marketing plan set by Marvel. The nerve.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

They are Journalists(ish), they are here to inform(ish).

 

[cutmeamango]

Marvel gets strongarmed by BleedingCool? Oh it's Dan Slott and twitter "talk".

 

[Coins]

If BD actually said give us an exclusive or we'll leak your bigger news, then yeah that actually is extortion.

Pretty much this.

 

[Gambit 1138]

Dan Slott is a huge troll. Didn't he just get into a fight with John Bryne like 2 days ago?

 

[Lothars]

Dan Slott is a huge troll. Didn't he just get into a fight with John Bryne like 2 days ago?

So he's like you?

 

[Dysun]

I'm pretty mad about the line up too, since all the good writers have jumped ship

 

[tkscz]

It isn't up to journalist to advertise a product, just inform of the product. However, journalist shouldn't be extorting companies for exclusive interviews and the like. So as far as I can tell, no one is really in the right here, and it's all based on who is further in the wrong.

Why is she playing the gender card here? He isn't doing that because of her gender, it's obvious he isn't. He's using they as a way of putting the interview on the entire company, not on Hannah alone.

 

[B-Dubs]

It isn't up to journalist to advertise a product, just inform of the product. However, journalist shouldn't be extorting companies for exclusive interviews and the like. So as far as I can tell, no one is really in the right here, and it's all based on who is further in the wrong.

Yea, extortion is kinda worse though.

 

[Dalek]

So he's like you?

 

[Sandfox]

Dan Slott is a huge troll. Didn't he just get into a fight with John Bryne like 2 days ago?

Byrne's comments were nonsensical from what I've read. Slott was arguing that books have to change at times while Byrne started flinging insults and stated that writers should get off the book before changing the status quo. Slott praised popular changes including ones Byrnes did himself who in turn tried to deny it and say those books don't count which makes zero sense.

 

[Nesotenso]

So he's like you?

lol

but yeah Dan sometimes takes it personally when people criticize his work. As far as BC is concerned, I am really not a fan of Rich Johnston's brand of 'journalism' or his shoddy writing.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So he's like you?

I was going to make a joke about 'ethics in comic journalism' but got beat to it.

 

[TheFallen]

I don't care for Bleeding Cool. The writing is horrible and they're no different than a vast majority of entertainment blogs fishing for clicks. It's all sensationalist shit. But both Marvel and DC love to play favorites with a select few media outlets. Those outlets do nothing but write puff pieces in exchange for those exclusives. Every one of them have in turn become shills for the big two. And really... they've got no option because of that relationship. With gaming, publishers get a lot of flack for this, but nobody cares about it happening in the comic industry.

That IMO, is the bigger problem.

 

[Gambit 1138]

So he's like you?

 

[Parallax]

lol

but yeah Dan sometimes takes it personally when people criticize his work. As far as BC is concerned, I am really not a fan of Rich Johnston's brand of 'journalism' or his shoddy writing.

sometimes?

 

[tkscz]

I don't care for Bleeding Cool. The writing is horrible and they're no different than a vast majority of entertainment blogs fishing for clicks. It's all sensationalist shit. But both Marvel and DC love to play favorites with a select few media outlets. Those outlets do nothing but write puff pieces in exchange for those exclusives. Every one of them have in turn become shills for the big two. And really... they've got no option because of that relationship. With gaming, publishers get a lot of flack for this, but nobody cares about it happening in the comic industry.

That IMO, is the bigger problem.

I can understand wanting an exclusive interview and that Marvel and DC usually buddy themselves with large companies in order to essentially advertise their products, but forcing the staff members of the company to work harder and to extort them doesn't put this company in the right here. Not saying you're saying that, but this site, which is known for bad writing and click-baiting, can't pull some shit like that and consider themselves in the right.

 

[Gambit 1138]

I don't care for Bleeding Cool. The writing is horrible and they're no different than a vast majority of entertainment blogs fishing for clicks. It's all sensationalist shit. But both Marvel and DC love to play favorites with a select few media outlets. Those outlets do nothing but write puff pieces in exchange for those exclusives. Every one of them have in turn become shills for the big two. And really... they've got no option because of that relationship. With gaming, publishers get a lot of flack for this, but nobody cares about it happening in the comic industry.

That IMO, is the bigger problem.

Just like Dan Slott's comic books!

 

[Shaanyboi]

So he's like you?

 

[Piston Hyundai]

I was going to make a joke about 'ethics in comic journalism' but got beat to it.

you're actually very lucky, because that means I roll my eyes at the other guy instead of you

 

[PsychBat!]

Just like Dan Slott's comic books!

 

[Wiktor]

So much drama

 

[cutmeamango]

Why is she playing the gender card here?

It's twitter talk. Whatever gets the cheerleaders going.
Slott brought the accusation of extortion practices when that stuff would probably be dealt privately and BC would be out of business.

Byrne's comments were nonsensical from what I've read. Slott was arguing that books have to change at times while Byrne started flinging insults and stated that writers should get off the book before changing the status quo. Slott praised popular changes including ones Byrnes did himself who in turn tried to deny it and say those books don't count which makes zero sense.

Nah, Byrne and Slott were pretty civil. Fundamentally the general debate has no end because they don't agree on what defines a character.
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48945&PN=0&TPN=1

 

[excelsiorlef]

Dan Slott is a huge troll. Didn't he just get into a fight with John Bryne like 2 days ago?

Byrne's comments were nonsensical from what I've read. Slott was arguing that books have to change at times while Byrne started flinging insults and stated that writers should get off the book before changing the status quo. Slott praised popular changes including ones Byrnes did himself who in turn tried to deny it and say those books don't count which makes zero sense.

Byrne is captain status quo, just look at his views on trans folk for that.

 

[WanderingWind]

It isn't up to journalist to advertise a product, just inform of the product. However, journalist shouldn't be extorting companies for exclusive interviews and the like. So as far as I can tell, no one is really in the right here, and it's all based on who is further in the wrong.

Why is she playing the gender card here? He isn't doing that because of her gender, it's obvious he isn't. He's using they as a way of putting the interview on the entire company, not on Hannah alone.

Wow, yeah, this makes both of them look like jackasses. That's so incredibly shitty of Hannah I almost want to take Dan Slott's side. Do you know what that takes?

 

[TheFallen]

I can understand wanting an exclusive interview and that Marvel and DC usually buddy themselves with large companies in order to essentially advertise their products, but forcing the staff members of the company to work harder and to extort them doesn't put this company in the right here. Not saying you're saying that, but this site, which is known for bad writing and click-baiting, can't pull some shit like that and consider themselves in the right.

I'm not saying they're in the right. Though I imagine the "extortion" comments can be summed up with, "We'd publish fewer rumors and leaks if you'd consider sharing the exclusive content with us". And Marvel likely avoids them like the plague given their history. I don't know if that's an ethically gray area, but it's certainly a fair request from BC. It's also Marvel's right to say no.

They also frequently have Marvel staff leaking things - so I'd question the "work harder" part. And if the content is being leaked by retailers or other publications, then they're certainly choosing the wrong partners.

 

[Mindwipe]

Slott is full of shit. Marvel's announcement book was in transit to retailers. BC wasmt even the first place online with that stuff, it was already on 4chan. Reddit had the photo covers 24 hours before BC.

 

[Sandfox]

Slott is full of shit. Marvel's announcement book was in transit to retailers. BC wasmt even the first place online with that stuff, it was already on 4chan. Reddit had the photo covers 24 hours before BC.

BC was actually the first place to leak the books(they were doing them slowly throughout the day for the clicks) via some retailer source and then when someone on 4chan started leaking them later on in the day they rushed to get everything out at once.

 

[Retrocore9]

Besides the fact that Slott has helped ruin Spiderman in the comics (Superior Spiderman with Doc Ock, yeesh) and needs to be taken off the character asap he's also completely wrong about leaks.

Soliciations for the new Marvel books happens months in advance with a story synopsis. It's been happening for years and so the post Secret Wars information was going to come out anyway. Plus the obvious points that journalism sites are supposed to report on facts and are not beholden to the corporate entities they report on.

I'd expect Slott to know all this but his Spiderman plots are so awful it doesn't really surprise me.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Here's the thing for people saying it's no big deal.

Imagine how less cool Phase 3 and 4 announcement would have been if we got trickles of movie titles over the course of a day, with at least one getting one of the main characters wrong, instead of that awesome image and announcement we got


I mean fuck we are talking about comic books not government secrets.

 

[J10]

Extortion is a pretty hefty charge, Dan.

 

[Sandfox]

Besides the fact that Slott has helped ruin Spiderman in the comics (Superior Spiderman with Doc Ock, yeesh) and needs to be taken off the character asap he's also completely wrong about leaks.

Soliciations for the new Marvel books happens months in advance with a story synopsis. It's been happening for years and so the post Secret Wars information was going to come out anyway. Plus the obvious points that journalism sites are supposed to report on facts and are not beholden to the corporate entities they report on.

I'd expect Slott to know all this but his Spiderman plots are so awful it doesn't really surprise me.

Which is why Marvel did the preview magazine which is nothing like solics which we'll be getting later this month. Marvel and retailers are obviously going to be upset about leaks.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Extortion is a pretty hefty charge, Dan.

Not really, if they tried to get some sort of exclusive in return for not sharing the leak that is the definition of extortion, just because it's not super evil doesn't make it not extortion. It is definitely shady business practices though.

 

[WanderingWind]

Not really, if they tried to get some sort of exclusive in return for not sharing the leak that is the definition of extortion, just because it's not super evil doesn't make it not extortion. It is definitely shady business practices though.

"Hefty" doesn't mean unlikely. It is, by definition, a hefty charge to levy with little proof. Then again, she was very quick to try to pull the discrimination card, so it sort of revealed the sort of person she is. If she's willing to be so underhanded publicly, it doesn't seem so far fetched that she'd be so behind closed doors, so to speak.

 

[excelsiorlef]

"Hefty" doesn't mean unlikely. It is, by definition, a hefty charge to levy with little proof. Then again, she was very quick to try to pull the discrimination card, so it sort of revealed the sort of person she is. If she's willing to be so underhanded publicly, it doesn't seem so far fetched that she'd be so behind closed doors, so to speak.

Touche I definitely misread the context there.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Nah, Byrne and Slott were pretty civil. Fundamentally the general debate has no end because they don't agree on what defines a character.
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48945&PN=0&TPN=1

Byrne's responses were extremely backhanded, but I'm also just not in agreement with him on serialized storytelling and keeping the status quo. The crazier the better, I say. I don't know if Dan is right or wrong on Bleeding Cool, but he definitely wasn't being a troll by arguing for changing things up in comics.

 

[MC Safety]

Byrne's responses were extremely backhanded, but I'm also just not in agreement with him on serialized storytelling and keeping the status quo. The crazier the better, I say. I don't know if Dan is right or wrong on Bleeding Cool, but he definitely wasn't being a troll by arguing for changing things up in comics.

I'm not sure what to think about Byrne. When I worked for Wizard: the Comics Magazine, he was the cranky old man who, if you went to a convention and put a reprint book in front of him, he'd pull out a stamp and slam it down on the comic.

He's got some good ideas in that thread, though. I like this response he made:

"A lot has come along to replace comics, of course. DVDs, videogames, etc. But there remains the fact that over the last thirty-five years or so, the industry has deliberately turned it's back on the younger readers. The NEW readers. First by making buying comics a major project -- seeking out the "local" comic shop, often miles away -- and the. By making them increasingly inaccessible. (I was appalled recently, when one writer, finding his continuity heavy plots a topic of complaint, declared "If you don't already know this stuff, why are you even reading them?")

"A general distribution product was turned into a niche market product. And, golly winkies!! Sales dropped!! "

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Wow, yeah, this makes both of them look like jackasses. That's so incredibly shitty of Hannah I almost want to take Dan Slott's side. Do you know what that takes?

Haha Amen to that. Hate when people do that.

 

[Kinyou]

They're wrong though. The purpose of the press isn't to sell comics. It's to inform (and entertain) the people, who are, in this case, the comic book reading audience and the readers of Bleeding Cool.
Bleeding Cool is indeed helping the comic book industry. They're helping it by keeping it honest and by speaking honestly to fans instead of trying to sell them products on the behalf of publishers.

They're making it sound as if Bleeding Cool weren't interested in just getting the most clicks by leaking stuff early.

I highly doubt they do it out of some moral obligation.

 

[hal9001]

I just wish Dan Slott would just leave Spider-Man once and for all.