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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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Z

ZenTzen

Member
Alienous said:
My problem isn't understanding it. It's just shit that invalidates some of the core aspects of MGS. Nothing has meaning, all the questions are just eventually explained away with ass-pull bullshit.

It's garbage.



I got that before the ending. Hasn't gone anywhere.
Click to expand...

i think my biggest problem with the asspulls, and need to explain everything is the supernatural bull, first in MGS4 with NANOMACHINES, and now in MGSV with parasytes

this shit is like the midichlorians from Star Wars, it just feels like kojima turned into the George Lucas from gamming
 
A

Alienous

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
It reinforces what MGS4 said. If you have issues with BB being replicated in order to keep his image alive, than take it up with MGS4? MGSV is a continuation of that, that BB isn't unique, that anyone can be him.
Click to expand...

He was unique. He was so special he was cloned. His genes used in the genome soldiers. The perfect warrior genes.

But nah, a couple of weeks and some hypnotherapy is all it takes to have a Big Boss. So why even clone him? No point asking, Kojima doesn't know yet.

Ugh, the story of MGS is nothing.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
skylenorman said:
Here's where I think you missed the point of TPP. The character you want the game to be about, Big Boss, it isn't. It's a character driven story about a guy's descent into madness due to his idol, in this case BB, using him for his own gains. He was forced to live the legend, and build up the name of Big Boss all while the real deal was off setting up his Army without a Nation.

Then when the unthinkable happened and Venom had to save the world by murdering all the Diamond Dogs, Big Boss needed to control his monster and take him out, sending his two best recruits Grey Fox and Solid Snake. The entire story is about what a dick BB is, and how Venom was a victim. Think of it like Frankenstein and his monster.

Again, all the hate will come from people who wanted this game to be Big Boss' final ride, instead of the conclusion to the saga that finally links the old and new games together.

tl;dr - People are going to be pissed because TPP isn't the game they want it to be.
Click to expand...

This...is actually a very good analysis of it. Kojima does take inspiration from film, especially older films, so Venom being a sort of 'Frankensteins Monster' is very poignant.

Alienous said:
He was unique. He was so special he was cloned. His genes used in the genome soldiers. The perfect warrior genes.

But nah, a couple of weeks and some hypnotherapy is all it takes to have a Big Boss. So why even clone him. No point asking, Kojima doesn't know yet.

Ugh, the story of MGS is nothing.
Click to expand...

Do you know why his clones were created? Because they wanted to keep Big Bosses image alive. Zero originally wanted to keep him as an icon. THe Legend of BB became bigger than BB himself. What MGS1/2/3/4 should have taught you is that BB wasn't special, no. Jack, Solid, even BB himself were all groomed to be bigger than what they were. It's why Snake declines being called a legendary soldier. There is no such thing.

Why clone him? Because Zero made a mistake.
 
S

SomedayTheFire

Member
skylenorman said:
Here's where I think you missed the point of TPP. The character you want the game to be about, Big Boss, it isn't. It's a character driven story about a guy's descent into madness due to his idol, in this case BB, using him for his own gains. He was forced to live the legend, and build up the name of Big Boss all while the real deal was off setting up his Army without a Nation.

Then when the unthinkable happened and Venom had to save the world by murdering all the Diamond Dogs, Big Boss needed to control his monster and take him out, sending his two best recruits Grey Fox and Solid Snake. The entire story is about what a dick BB is, and how Venom was a victim. Think of it like Frankenstein and his monster.

Again, all the hate will come from people who wanted this game to be Big Boss' final ride, instead of the conclusion to the saga that finally links the old and new games together.

tl;dr - People are going to be pissed because TPP isn't the game they want it to be.
Click to expand...
I'm blanking at this part?
 
A

Alienous

Member
I'm done making excuses for the plot. It doesn't make sense, and Kojima doesn't care.

Sure, you can contort it to make it resemble making sense but it really doesn't. No part of the plot is sacred; it's all susceptible to change, and that which doesn't make sense now would only be edited later.

It's meaningless.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Okay, I've finally finished the game.
Oh wait, I didn't.

All of that was chapter 1?! There is a chapter 2?! I am legit shook. The trailer had me thinking they'd release it a few months from now, and then you find out it's already on the disc and you're going to play it now? Oh god, this has to be the best metal gear game, and one of the best games ever.
 
TwoDurans

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Alienous said:
He was unique. He was so special he was cloned. His genes used in the genome soldiers. The perfect warrior genes.

But nah, a couple of weeks and some hypnotherapy is all it takes to have a Big Boss. So why even clone him? No point asking, Kojima doesn't know yet.

Ugh, the story of MGS is nothing.
Click to expand...

You're talking about the legend, not the man. Look back at Snake Eater. Naked Snake got his ass kicked. He only succeeded because The Boss was holding his hand guiding him to her inevitable conclusion. The entire franchise from MGS1 onward is more about the myth of Big Boss rather than the actual guy. Perception is key. If enough people believe a story, it must be true, right?

He was not the perfect warrior, he was a guy who had an insane amount of support and achieved great things. TPP, and Venom's existence proves that it's not about the soldier, it's about the perception.

SomedayTheFire said:
I'm blanking at this part?
Click to expand...
Keep playing.
 
S

Shauni

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
Okay, I've finally finished the game.
Oh wait, I didn't.

All of that was chapter 1?! There is a chapter 2?! I am legit shook. The trailer had me thinking they'd release it a few months from now, and then you find out it's already on the disc and you're going to play it now? Oh god, this has to be the best metal gear game, and one of the best games ever.
Click to expand...

...What?
 
T

thabtoUK

who knows?
Just leaving this here:

1441037409386.png
 
Emedan

Emedan

Member
skylenorman said:
Here's where I think you missed the point of TPP. The character you want the game to be about, Big Boss, it isn't. It's a character driven story about a guy's descent into madness due to his idol, in this case BB, using him for his own gains. He was forced to live the legend, and build up the name of Big Boss all while the real deal was off setting up his Army without a Nation.

Then when the unthinkable happened and Venom had to save the world by murdering all the Diamond Dogs, Big Boss needed to control his monster and take him out, sending his two best recruits Grey Fox and Solid Snake. The entire story is about what a dick BB is, and how Venom was a victim. Think of it like Frankenstein and his monster.

Again, all the hate will come from people who wanted this game to be Big Boss' final ride, instead of the conclusion to the saga that finally links the old and new games together.

tl;dr - People are going to be pissed because TPP isn't the game they want it to be.
Click to expand...

I don't agree at all. You didn't have to be tricked into being Big Boss if that was the ultimate goal of the story. It's stupid and a sorry excuse for bad writing.

Honestly, it didn't had to be Big Boss at all, a more intelligible way of writing this story would be to put Gray Fox in there. I would've been fine being part of Big Boss's bigger story, just as a tool, observing this fall from grace; but that's not what happens, you're led to believe you're playing BB, the twist is not as much shocking as it is stupid, and it reeks of writing competency of a 1st grader.

Having Venom Snake being BB is no more than an excuse to have a twist, but as I stated, it doesn't serve the story at all. A friend of order would then object and say "Well this is Kojimas story", which is true but it doesn't mean it's competent.

The comparison has been made several times in this thread but truly it is applicable, Kojima is George Lucas - one who didn't seem to understand their own creation.
 
TwoDurans

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Emedan said:
I don't agree at all. You didn't have to be tricked into being Big Boss if that was the ultimate goal of the story. It's stupid and a sorry excuse for bad writing.

Honestly, it didn't had to be Big Boss at all, a more intelligible way of writing this story would be to put Gray Fox in there. I would've been fine being part of Big Boss's bigger story, just as a tool, observing this fall from grace; but that's not what happens, you're led to believe you're playing BB, the twist is not as much shocking as it is stupid, and it reeks of writing competency of a 1st grader.

Having Venom Snake being BB is no more than an excuse to have a twist, but as I stated, it doesn't serve the story at all. A friend of order would then object and say "Well this is Kojimas story", which is true but it doesn't mean it's competent.

The comparison has been made several times in this thread but truly it is applicable, Kojima is George Lucas - one who didn't seem to understand their own creation.
Click to expand...

Thing is. You're meant to feel this betrayed. It helps you empathize with Venom. Player:Kojima as Venom:Big Boss

What you call bad writing is actually pretty well done considering your reaction.
 
Sub_Level

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
How does Solid Snake not know there are multiple BBs in the early 90s?

This implies Venom was in hiding from 1984 to 1995, which goes against the point of spreading his legend.

Maybe BB tells Venom to lay low, which goes against the point of makin the player feel betrayed since Venom is still obedient.

Why is this a thing
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Sub_Level said:
How does Solid Snake not know there are multiple BBs in the early 90s?

This implies Venom was in hiding from 1984 to 1995, which goes against the point of spreading his legend.

Maybe BB tells Venom to lay low, which goes against the point of makin the player feel betrayed since Venom is still obedient.

Why is this a thing
Click to expand...

There's definitely alot of discrepancies in MG1/MG2 now. How many people know of Venom Snake, anyways? Zero, Miller, Ocelot, BB, the doctors who worked on him?
 
KOMANI

KOMANI

KOMANI
skylenorman said:
Thing is. You're meant to feel this betrayed. It helps you empathize with Venom. Player:Kojima as Venom:Big Boss

What you call bad writing is actually pretty well done considering your reaction.
Click to expand...
But venom doesn't even upset about the whole thing... After the whole, "we're both big boss" speech, he smirks as to say, "cool!". The moments of phantom pain are ruined by the corn ball localization and flat dialogue.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
Sub_Level said:
How does Solid Snake not know there are multiple BBs in the early 90s?

This implies Venom was in hiding from 1984 to 1995, which goes against the point of spreading his legend.

Maybe BB tells Venom to lay low, which goes against the point of makin the player feel betrayed since Venom is still obedient.

Why is this a thing
Click to expand...

Kojima did say he would retcon the original 2 games with no shame, and people should just ignore the inconsistencies.

Given the fact that this twist ties so much into the exact games he said people should ignore, I think it's somewhat safe to assume he was expecting to remake them, rewriting the story and considering the remakes the canon entries, but now he's RIP and Konami will just make pachinkos.

bad said:
But venom doesn't even upset about the whole thing... After the whole, "we're both big boss" speech, he smirks as to say, "cool!". The moments of phantom pain are ruined by the corn ball localization and flat dialogue.
Click to expand...

I'd say the ending is open to interpretation, judging by the cutscene itself. It can both be him embracing his role as Big Boss, and the smirk is him accepting he's part of the legend, and no longer the medic, but some people also pointed what could be interpreted as a time skip, with him appearing in front of the mirror with a lot more blood on his face and wahtnot, and that's after they show us the Operation Intrude N313 tape, so that smirk could also be a "fuck you, Big Boss" smirk, him relistening to the tape and seeing he was played like a damn fiddle to the end. He did accept his role and continued to work on Outer Heaven, and then Big Boss sent Snake to kill him. Tricked to the end.

I didn't play the game though, Spainkiller or someone else who did might have a reason for this second interpretation to be impossible.
 
Sub_Level

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
BreezyLimbo said:
There's definitely alot of discrepancies in MG1/MG2 now. How many people know of Venom Snake, anyways? Zero, Miller, Ocelot, BB, the doctors who worked on him?
Click to expand...

The doctors are dead, but yes.

The only ones you're missing are Sigint, Paramedic, and Eva. Eva is confirmed to know. The first 2 are presumptions.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Sub_Level said:
The doctors are dead, but yes.

The only ones you're missing are Sigint, Paramedic, and Eva. Eva is confirmed to know. The first 2 are presumptions.
Click to expand...

It'd be hard for Solid to know then. Since the Patriot AI came into play late 80's/early 90's, it's possible they couldn't tell the difference between VS and BB.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
GwyndolinCinder said:
S ranked quiet extreme, whilst playing quiets theme..... Still no quiet
Click to expand...

Man, this is a really stupid decision by them. >_>

As I said, I love the story implications of losing a character you care about for good, but not even being able to get her back with a NG+ or something is a terrible decision.
 
A

Alienous

Member
Gbraga said:
Man, this is a really stupid decision by them. >_>

As I said, I love the story implications of losing a character you care about for good, but not even being able to get her back with a NG+ or something is a terrible decision.
Click to expand...

Kojima doesn't give a fuck.

Heck, her last mission is the worst part of Peace Walker. No play tester could have played that misson and called it fun.
 
TwoDurans

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Gbraga said:
Man, this is a really stupid decision by them. >_>

As I said, I love the story implications of losing a character you care about for good, but not even being able to get her back with a NG+ or something is a terrible decision.
Click to expand...

I'm really hoping the guide addresses this. I had her to 90% affinity too. I was so close to maxing her out.
 
KOMANI

KOMANI

KOMANI
ponpo said:
Side Op 150 - Secure Quiet

Availability: The following four conditions must be fulfilled for this side op (and Mission 45, which immediately follows it) to be triggered:
- You spared Quiet’s life at the end of Mission 11
- Quiet is available (she is not recuperating).
- Your Bond with Quiet is at its maximum level
- You have seen the cutscene at Mother Base where a scientist is exiled.

-You do not use the “Butterfly (front)” design in your emblem.

Note that completing this assignment immediately triggers Mission 45, so make sure you are fully prepared beforehand.
Click to expand...
This for the people that want to hold on to Quiet.
 
Emedan

Emedan

Member
skylenorman said:
Thing is. You're meant to feel this betrayed. It helps you empathize with Venom. Player:Kojima as Venom:Big Boss

What you call bad writing is actually pretty well done considering your reaction.
Click to expand...

Now you're just bending the world around you to fit your arguments. There's several reasons why this is not the case; if that's it he failed to convey it to a majority of the player base, secondly it's such a convoluted that it can't be passed as good writing..

Also do you seriously think Kojima would be competent enough?

Lastly; we're led to believe it's a character story, which is enough for it to have to behave like one. Stop excusing this shit.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Emedan said:
Now you're just bending the world around you to fit your arguments. There's several reasons why this is not the case; if that's it he failed to convey it to a majority of the player base, secondly it's such a convoluted that it can't be passed as good writing..

Also do you seriously think Kojima would be competent enough?

Lastly; we're led to believe it's a character story, which is enough for it to have to behave like one. Stop excusing this shit.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the 'majority' of the player base is actually a very small part of GAF. And at that, it's even a smaller segment hanging out in the spoiler thread.
 
KOMANI

KOMANI

KOMANI
How does Ocelot gain the trust of Liquid in MGS 1?
What motivation does Miller have to turn on the Boss? Cause the one given is pretty thin.
Why does Big Boss want Venom killed? Pure speculation at this point.
Does ocelot and the real Boss ever meet up again?
More questions than answers for a game that's supposed to be the missing piece of the franchise.
 
TwoDurans

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Emedan said:
Now you're just bending the world around you to fit your arguments. There's several reasons why this is not the case; if that's it he failed to convey it to a majority of the player base, secondly it's such a convoluted that it can't be passed as good writing..

Also do you seriously think Kojima would be competent enough?

Lastly; we're led to believe it's a character story, which is enough for it to have to behave like one. Stop excusing this shit.
Click to expand...

I think we're both polar ends of the spectrum here. You're unable to see the game for what it is given your rage over the twist.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
bad said:
How does Ocelot gain the trust of Liquid in MGS 1?
What motivation does Miller have to turn on the Boss? Cause the one given is pretty thin.
Why does Big Boss want Venom killed? Pure speculation at this point.
Does ocelot and the real Boss ever meet up again?
More questions than answers for a game that's supposed to be the missing piece of the franchise.
Click to expand...

1. Ocelot and Eli know each other in this game.
2.The one given is going to have to do.
3. We don't know if it's the Patriot AI manipulating BB to send Solid Snake, or whether BB felt VS became a threat.
4. They probably meet up before '95.
5. Eh, the only questions are how MG1/MG2 unfolded in the grand scheme of things. Those games simply don't have enough story to 'fit' as it stands.
 
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