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[VanMardigan]

Yeah sounds like a good episode but weaksauce way to kill off Sasha. Doesn't even fit the character.

 

[Leeness]

It sounds better than I wrote it lol.

But last episode, her thing was that she didn't want Negan to use her to hurt her friends, and this is continuing with that.

 

[hey_monkey]

I just really hate EVERY SINGLE GODDAMNED THING about the garbage people. I hate that they are there. That Rick and co were trusting them. That they give them shit. It doesn't make any sense! UNLESS they become a factor later but even then, goddamn, it's dispatches from the land of poor decisions for now.

 

[hey_monkey]

It sounds better than I wrote it lol.

But last episode, her thing was that she didn't want Negan to use her to hurt her friends, and this is continuing with that.

Yeah, I think it fits well enough with that. Her disappointment in the end that she didn't get a weapon becoming determination to use what she has as a weapon. I can be on board with that. At least, they've made worse choices by faaaaaar.

 

[Chumley]

What even is the fucking point of the garbage people other than to fill time?

Maybe I answered my own question.

Also I can't remember but was Negan ever about to actually Lucille Carl in the comics? I thought his rule was always no kids.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

What even is the fucking point of the garbage people other than to fill time?

Maybe I answered my own question.

Basically. I don't mind them but I think it's to divert focus away from just a direct confrontation with The Saviors. The comic is still way ahead of the show, but they burn through content fairly quick when they're adapting actual comic events.

So the show can deal with the garbage people if it wants to slow things down, and then get back to All Out War. And maybe they really are just a proto version of The Whisperers. It's actually hard for me to believe they're not given their eccentric behavior, female leader, and eventual turn to being antagonistic. What I think the show is doing is showing their devolution to what they become later, since we don't know much about their origins in the comic. I just think the creators are trying to be coy about it.

 

[Leeness]

What even is the fucking point of the garbage people other than to fill time?

Maybe I answered my own question.

Also I can't remember but was Negan ever about to actually Lucille Carl in the comics? I thought his rule was always no kids.

Coral fires the opening shot of the battle, so I think that's why.

Basically. I don't mind them but I think it's to divert focus away from just a direct confrontation with The Saviors. The comic is still way ahead of the show, but they burn through content fairly quick when they're adapting actual comic events.

So the show can deal with the garbage people if it wants to slow things down, and then get back to All Out War. And maybe they really are just a proto version of The Whisperers. It's actually hard for me to believe they're not given their eccentric behavior, female leader, and eventual turn to being antagonistic. What I think the show is doing is showing their devolution to what they become later, since we don't know much about their origins in the comic. I just think the creators are trying to be coy about it.

I would actually like this origin for the Whisperers! They were actually kind of talking about them on Talking Dead like a season ago, so maybe that is their plan.

 

[Rewrite]

Episode sounds amazing.

 

[Leeness]

Here's TSDF's Q&A, 7.16 The First Day of the Rest of Your Life

1. Will Sasha commit suicide with the pills Eugene gave her?

Yes, she does actually take the pills and will ultimately attack Negan as a walker (but she doesn't bite him.) The episode will open with Sasha in a dark, confined space listening to music. She has taken the pills by this time and is floating in and out of consciousness or memory, having conversations with Abe and Maggie. There will be a lot of these flashbacks. It will be blended well between current and past actions as not to seem that confusing. It’s done this way because of Sasha’s reflection of what her life is up to this point. Is she ready to do what she has to do? Has she really lived and made something with her life, and going out doing something even when the situation has her trapped?


Sasha takes the pills while inside a coffin that she voluntarily chooses to stay inside during the ride to Alexandria. When they get to Alexandria, Negan threatens to kill Sasha if Rick doesn't hand over the guns. Rick demands to show him that she's still alive. So, Negan opens the coffin expecting Sasha to be alive when surprise! Walker Sasha emerges and tries to bite Negan. He gets caught up in a tarp as he is fighting her off and they fall on the back of the truck. It's a close call, but Negan does not get bit. At the end of the episode Maggie and Jesus find Sasha in the woods. Jesus holds Sasha down while Maggie ends it with a knife.


2. Will Jadis and the Scavengers turn on team family?

Yes. As suspected, Jadis is the "little birdie" who has been working for Negan all along. Tamiel may have been the one sent to do the
dirty work but as Jadis is the leader, she is responsible. When the Scavengers first arrive at Alexandria they appear to still be on Rick's side. There will be a funny moment where Jadis in her robot-speak will ask Michonne if she cares if she has sex with Rick. The ick factor will be high with this one. However, when Negan arrives they turn their guns on Team Family, acknowledging that they got a better deal with Negan

3. Where the hell is Judith?

She’s safe at the Hilltop. Enid/Jesus/Maggie (holding Judith) are talking and Maggie is deciding what to do to help Rick and ASZ. Presumably, since Judith is already there, Rick came to see Maggie and asked that they stay out of this one just in case they needed backup. Maggie is considering whether to respect his ask or say screw it and go and help. She figures since if Negan knows what they’re up to then he'll need her help. Jesus is pleased that she is making the decision instead of Gregory. (Aren’t we all?) Enid takes Judith from Maggie and gives her something and walks out. Maggie looks down in her hand- Hershel’s watch. Maggie/Jesus just look at each other-knowing. Maggie makes the decision and Hilltop shows up at the last second to push the battle in Team Family’s favor.


4. Does Eugene show signs of reverting back to supporting Team Family?

Unfortunately, no outward signs of it. He and Sasha exchange words as they get ready to leave the Sanctuary to ASZ, and refers to TF as “they” as in “what they’re planning”. Sasha picks up on this. He also tries to talk Rick and ASZ into surrendering when they arrive at ASZ.

5. Is there another “line-up” like in the first episode of the season?

This one is the mini line-up like what the graphic novel readers are already familiar with. But it’s only Rick and Carl. Negan says he’s going to kill Carl then let Lucille take Rick’s hands. Rick tells Negan that he can do it right in front of him and then take his hands, but the Saviors are still going to die. Negan takes that to be “permission” to kill Carl, so he raises the bat to crunch Carl (“you just said I could do it”) when Shiva shows up and pounces on a nearby Savior, turning him into tiger chow, causing Negan to immediately stop. Good kitty!!

Chaos erupts as a full-blown battle begins. The Kingdomers (including Carol and Morgan) storm in guns blazing, taking down Saviors and Scavengers. Maggie and the Hilltoppers also show up at the last second, much to Negan's disgust. He's quite surprised by the tiger and the fact that Maggie is alive.

6. So is Dwight definitely helping Team Family?

Yes, there is a little bit of conflict. Daryl wants to kill Dwight and puts a knife to his face. Tara encourages it. Dwight explains that he can recruit the laborers and go outpost to outpost and clear out the Saviors. They eventually let him go. Dwight tries to stop the Saviors by cutting down the trees in the road. But it just slows them down as they use chainsaws to get rid of the trees. When Dwight returns to Alexandria with the Saviors, he is visibly shooting over Team Family's heads as not to hurt anyone. Also, he was not aware of the deal between the Saviors and Scavengers. We may see Daryl find a chess piece carving by the front gate with a “didn’t know” message on it.


7. Is anyone from Team Family hurt?

Rosita and Rick are both shot, but live. Rick is shot by Jadis.


8. Is there a close call for Michonne?

Michonne gets in a fight on a brownstone balcony while Rick and Carl are in the mini-lineup. (Comic book readers may see it as a nod to the Andrea tower fight and fall from the comics.) A woman falls from the balcony. The audience will know it wasn’t Michonne, but Rick won’t. It is Farron, a GPK woman. Rick later finds Michonne bruised and bloodied and they share a sweet moment together.

9. How does the episode end?

The Saviors and Scavengers retreat after a nice ass whooping from Team Family, Kingdom, and Hilltop. The episode ends with a bit of a nod to Glenn. In a small time jump, it has Maggie talking off-screen showing all the groups now together with the leaders of each group talking to the crowd, discussing the war they’re about to embark upon (we just see them talking, no sound but Maggie’s voice): "To suffer and stand, to grieve, to give, to love, to live. To fight for each other. Glenn made the decision, Rick. I was just following his lead." In the final shot of Maggie’s hand, we see Hershel’s watch with a glint of sunshine reflecting on it.


Disclaimer: This information is believed to be accurate at the time of posting. We have heard a lot of noise about possible re-edits this season. So far, we haven't seen any direct evidence of this occurring. However, since this is the finale, please be vigilant of possible minor discrepancies in the airing of the episode.

 

[Surfinn]

Yeah sounds like a good episode but weaksauce way to kill off Sasha. Doesn't even fit the character.

Yeah that's a SHIT way to write her off. Not that I was ever super invested in her character but lol they really just blatantly disregard character development in this show.

 

[Chumley]

I was never even remotely invested in Sasha so I'm fine with it, it's going to be fun seeing Negan get dunked on twice (almost getting bitten and then getting ambushed by the tiger).

 

[hey_monkey]

Heh, I mentioned GPKs-as-Whisperers either earlier in this thread or in the regular thread when they first appeared and got shot down, but that's where I think it's going. They're just SO weird and if they're not linked in the show, then it feels like such a waste.

 

[Lashley]

I wonder if Shiva's death will be as heartbreaking and badass as it was in the comic?

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I would actually like this origin for the Whisperers! They were actually kind of talking about them on Talking Dead like a season ago, so maybe that is their plan.

Heh, I mentioned GPKs-as-Whisperers either earlier in this thread or in the regular thread when they first appeared and got shot down, but that's where I think it's going. They're just SO weird and if they're not linked in the show, then it feels like such a waste.

At first I believed the producers when they said it was a different group. But now that we know about the double cross...

I just think it's odd to introduce a group that so closely resembles the next big threat, and there be zero connection. The Garbage People barely talk, and they literally live in filth now. The jump to becoming The Whisperers is more like a half step. It would be like having a dude that kills people with a cricket bat show up before Negan. I think they'll double cross Rick, get fucked over during All Out War (like maybe their home gets destroyed) and then they'll start wearing Walker skins to survive.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

At first I believed the producers when they said it was a different group. But now that we know about the double cross...

I just think it's odd to introduce a group that so closely resembles the next big threat, and there be zero connection. The Garbage People barely talk, and they literally live in filth now. The jump to becoming The Whisperers is more like a half step. It would be like having a dude that kills people with a cricket bat show up before Negan. I think they'll double cross Rick, get fucked over during All Out War (like maybe their home gets destroyed) and then they'll start wearing Walker skins to survive.

Heh. A British guy with a red tie and a slovenly best friend.

 

[parrotbeak]

i was pretty sure they wouldn't do the bag over the head since it was done already on Fear, and this was an obvious way to switch it up so that "surprise zombie" is on Negan instead but I didn't get why she would ride in a coffin in the first place. The Saviors had them beat, what's the point of negotiating, and why bring her in a coffin just to open it and show her alive. Maybe I missed it when Negan and Sasha were talking, kinda phased out.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Yo! Issue 166 was bananas today. Fucking Sherry, man.

 

[dustyherb]

Yo! Issue 166 was bananas today. Fucking Sherry, man.

Ya it was really fucking good. So damn happy Sherry is finally dead! I really thought Dwight would be the one to kill her. But I think having old man Rick do it is just as awesome. Imagine making it as far as they have only to die by breaking your neck on a table lol.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Ya it was really fucking good. So damn happy Sherry is finally dead! I really thought Dwight would be the one to kill her. But I think having old man Rick do it is just as awesome. Imagine making it as far as they have only to die by breaking your neck on a table lol.

I realllly enjoyed the parallels between Rick and Negan being drawn through Sherry and Rick's dialog.

 

[LycanXIII]

How does Rick get out of this mess. There's no way he can leave the house by himself or the Saviors start shooting.

 

[parrotbeak]

LMAO that was hilarious. "It was an accident!" Lol good luck with that one Rick.

 

[Jhoan]

Plus he has Andrea's bite to deal with. That's a terrible double bind to be in. Issue 167 isn't going to be pretty regardless of what goes down. If a person's neck breaks, do they still turn?

 

[parrotbeak]

Plus he has Andrea's bite to deal with. That's a terrible double bind to be in. Issue 167 isn't going to be pretty regardless of what goes down. If a person's neck breaks, do they still turn?

I believe it has to be a brain trauma to not turn. Hershel's kids were decapitated and turned.

 

[Jhoan]

I believe it has to be a brain trauma to not turn. Hershel's kids were decapitated and turned.

As were all of Alpha's victims who were impaled on pikes as to mark the Whisperer border. I see. So my guess is that Sherry is going to turn unless Ricky or Andrea take care of it. Maybe Andrea might take the fall for Rick since she's going to inevitably turn.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Plus he has Andrea's bite to deal with. That's a terrible double bind to be in. Issue 167 isn't going to be pretty regardless of what goes down. If a person's neck breaks, do they still turn?

Here's my prediction (I believe some had the same idea on the TWD subreddit): Rick and Andrea are going to say their goodbyes in the cabin before emerging, and since she's technically already dead (but the Saviors don't know it), Rick will offer Andrea up for execution to the Saviors in exchange for Sherry's death and a clean break with their group.

 

[Lashley]

I'm going to miss Andrea 😭

 

[dustyherb]

Here's my prediction (I believe some had the same idea on the TWD subreddit): Rick and Andrea are going to say their goodbyes in the cabin before emerging, and since she's technically already dead (but the Saviors don't know it), Rick will offer Andrea up for execution to the Saviors in exchange for Sherry's death and a clean break with their group.

Fuck man that's a good guess. It's going to be really sad if it goes down like that. I wonder how Rick is going to react when she does die. Is he going to break down and go crazy like he did with Lori? Maybe he will be even worse than he was with Lori. He did have that conversation with Michonne where he admitted he's closer to Andrea than he ever was to Lori.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Fuck man that's a good guess. It's going to be really sad if it goes down like that. I wonder how Rick is going to react when she does die. Is he going to break down and go crazy like he did with Lori? Maybe he will be even worse than he was with Lori. He did have that conversation with Michonne where he admitted he's closer to Andrea than he ever was to Lori.

Yeah, it's gonna be bad. I feel like they've been nudging him ever closer to becoming as bad as, if not worse than Negan. Maybe if it goes down like this, it pushes him over the edge.

 

[parrotbeak]

That's what I was thinking was Rick's ultimate character arc from at least the Something to Fear mini arc. I expect him to eventually become the bad guy of the story and that's when his story will end and maybe Carl or Maggie will become the main good guy.

 

[LycanXIII]

We still don't even know if Andrea was bit.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Fuck man that's a good guess. It's going to be really sad if it goes down like that. I wonder how Rick is going to react when she does die. Is he going to break down and go crazy like he did with Lori? Maybe he will be even worse than he was with Lori. He did have that conversation with Michonne where he admitted he's closer to Andrea than he ever was to Lori.

One last thing about this. I'm really bummed that they showed the cover for the issue after next now.

 

[Lashley]

We still don't even know if Andrea was bit.

She probably wasn't. I doubt he'd drag it on this long if she was.

 

[dustyherb]

We still don't even know if Andrea was bit.

Very true. I definitely think something's up since Kirkman is drawing this out over multiple issues.

Yeah, it's gonna be bad. I feel like they've been nudging him ever closer to becoming as bad as, if not worse than Negan. Maybe if it goes down like this, it pushes him over the edge.

It could totally see it happening. But also as long as Carl is alive and around I can't really see Rick heading down that path. Carl has always been the one thing keeping him from breaking.
I'll definitely be bummed if the issue plays out like the cover. But I think it's another misleading cover. At least I hope they wouldn't spoil something like that on the damn cover.

That's what I was thinking was Rick's ultimate character arc from at least the Something to Fear mini arc. I expect him to eventually become the bad guy of the story and that's when his story will end and maybe Carl or Maggie will become the main good guy.

You know I was actually just thinking about this yesterday. The only problem is I can't imagine Rick becoming a bad guy with his son still alive. At the very least they would have to have something that drives them apart. Maybe something like Rick letting Negan roam around is what could put them against each other.

She probably wasn't. I doubt he'd drag it on this long if she was.

Yep exactly. But I suppose with Kirkman you never know.

 

[parrotbeak]

Oh I meant the Fear the Hunters miniarc when Rick goes nuts on the Hunters.

The only thing is that if that's Rick's ultimate story, wow, how fucking cynical a story is TWD for him to go through so much and still try to maintain civility and then have him lose it at the end.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I think the bite is a fakeout. Something weird is going to happen. I can smell it.

 

[Surfinn]

The cover for 167 is heartbreaking, wow.

166 was crazy. Rick is in deep shit.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

The cover of Issue 169 is...something else.

 

[Lashley]

The cover of Issue 169 is...something else.

Hmm, the covers are usually a swerve though, aren't they?

 

[dustyherb]

The cover of Issue 169 is...something else.

Holy shit! Man wtf is going to happen with all this savior shit? I doubt Dwight will go against Rick but he will probably be upset about Sherry. Even if she treated him like shit she was still his wife.

 

[border]

I only ever watch The Walking Dead TV show on AMC. I never read the comics. After the season finale though I was wanting to see a little more Negan content. So I started reading around issue #117, planning on just getting a little fix and then quitting the comic. I accidentally read all the way though issue #166. So I guess this is my new home now. It's weird thinking that I've probably just spoiled the next 2-3 years of the show for myself.

What do you think the course of the show will be? I have a hard time imagining that the TV show's audience will be accepting of the time skip, the Whisperers, or any scenario in which Negan doesn't get killed (let alone a situation in which he fights alongside Rick). I think the showrunners are probably going to make a hard detour from the direction that the comic book goes in, just because it's a little too pulp-y and fantastical. Do you want the show to continue using the comic book as a blueprint for their story arcs? I think it would be a little exciting if they just decided to strike out on their own.

 

[More_Badass]

I can see them doing the Whisperers. If they're willing to do Shiva and make crazy Mad Max garbage people, the Whisperers ain't too crazy

Plus you kill two birds with one stone. Introduce a new human antagonist and make the zombies feel like a threat again

Time skip and Negan sticking around/alongside Rick, I don't think we'll see

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Agreed, Negan's face turn won't work in the TV show. And I REALLY don't think the TV audience will be accepting of Sherry/the Saviors coming back as a renewed antagonist again after the Whisperers/herd attack.

 

[dustyherb]

As long as Gimple is showrunner I can't imagine them ever straying very far from the comic. Unless of course the show catches up to the comic. And honestly I don't want them to cause I don't have much faith in them doing a good job. Every time the show has gone off course (hospital shit with Beth, the scavengers this season) people constantly bitch about that stuff. So I can't imagine how people would react to a full seasons of original material.

As for the whisperers I don't see why they wouldn't do them at this point. They've introduced every major community including Oceanside already, plus we got shit like Shiva this season. Whisperers won't seem very ridiculous after having shit like the scavengers.

They shouldn't have brought in Negan if they aren't going to keep him around. It shouldn't really matter if people are accepting of it or not, a lot of comic readers were not ok with it at first. Hell there's still plenty of comic readers that hate Negan and wish he would just die. They still have plenty of time to get people ok with the idea. Using Negan's backstory from "Here's Negan" would be a good way to do it.
At this point in the show/story most people shouldn't want Negan sticking around anyways. Plus killing him off would just be another case of a villain being around for a little, dies, and than a new villain comes into the picture.

Time skip would be a good way to get Carl closer to Chandler's actual age. But idk what they will end up doing. Especially since the time skip means changing up Alexandria in a big way.

 

[parrotbeak]

I hated Carl's attempt on Negan's life and I forgot why it didn't bother me in the comic because I forgot how young the comic Carl was at the time. It's way more believable that comic Carl would fail to kill him with an automatic rifle and that Negan would let him live. I

 

[LycanXIII]

Before they do anything with Negan in the show, they should see what the comics are planning to do with him in the long run.

 

[Chumley]

I don't see the Negan face turn working at all in the show either. Andrew Lincoln's seething rage and hatred towards him in his performance has never been more palpable towards any other character, and Negan likewise has been played as just a straight up evil fuck.

I'm still kind of expecting it to happen, but unless they make some serious changes in the performances and character direction it's going to feel like total bullshit. Rick has sworn to kill him twice now, the second time being moments before he was about to kill his son. Like dusty said, a "Here's Negan" bottle episode might help.

 

[parrotbeak]

Negan's face turn is faker than Jon Jones at a NSAC hearing.

 

[dustyherb]

Before they do anything with Negan in the show, they should see what the comics are planning to do with him in the long run.

That might be a good way to go. If a new beginning doesn't start till season 9 they would have like 18 months of comic material to see what happens with him.
But even than it seems like Gimple really wants tv Negan to head down the same path. Why else would he introduce the jail cell and Morgan's philosophy that people can change.

Also here's what Gimple said about Here's Negan:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...on-7-finale-explained-season-8-preview-990764

Negan's backstory in the Image+ preview magazine makes him a rather sympathetic. Have you thought about incorporating that?

"I might have gotten an advance on "Here's Negan." But it makes him somewhat sympathetic. Absolutely, I have thought about incorporating that. I will say in one of the most recent issues of the book, with rick and Negan's discussion in the house, which reflected "Here's Negan" a lot, absolutely. I will say, not full bore but pieces of it spread out a little bit more. Negan's backstory has been weaved into his comic tenure and we do want to introduce it a little earlier than it was in the comics. So yes, but we're building it up."

Negan's face turn is faker than Jon Jones at a NSAC hearing.

What do you think his end game goal is then? I really hope he isnt faking all this shit.

 

[parrotbeak]

Ya, once I saw Morgan building the cell, my assumption was that it was for Negan. Although I guess they could just be purposely misdirecting the comic readers.

What do you think his end game goal is then? I really hope he isnt faking all this shit.

I don't find him sympathetic in the backstory. He's ultimately out for himself but realizes that having a group is helpful to him. He'll go to bat for the group as long as he's directly benefiting from it. His goal would be to be a leader again or at least someone influential over others, and use others as a buffer of protection around himself. He's not going to try to remain a low tier soldier.

Maybe "faking" isn't the right word but he's manipulating his way into power again. Maybe he's not that different from Rick except Negan doesn't have a Carl.

I brought up that in the beginning Negan is cheating on his wife while she dies of cancer. I think it was also implied that he starts cheating with Sherry early on? There was just a one off line about her liking hotel rooms because of what people do in them but maybe it was just flirting.

 

[LycanXIII]

A "Here's Negan" episode would have to be season/mid-season premiere to work, like the Governor episode a few seasons back, and it would have to be after All Out War too. Throwing it in the middle would make a mess of it.