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[MADGAME]

Yeah we know that you can earn everything without paying it. There is literally no one arguing otherwise. So thanks for stating the obvious and feel free to leave if that is the entirety of your contribution to this discussion. Cause you clearly havent got a fucking clue as to what people are talking about.

You might be the one confused, you seemed to take my quote out of context. If not, it is so poorly worded it is hard to follow. Thank you for the unwarranted expletives and hateful discourse. Maybe you should take a hard look in the mirror, friend.

 

[WhatNXt]

I find the whole crate / card mechanic extremely off putting to be honest. I know this isn't the first time they're doing something like this, I'm just kinda fatigued by it.

Remember when games were at most - configure load out and go? Remember the dizzy days of quick games in GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, Unreal, Team Fortress, Medal of Honour, Halo, CoD and Battlefield before all this stuff?

I want my multiplayer games to be something I can jump in and out of. This sign in daily gacha pokemon RPGesque config tweaking payment when desperate shit is crazy.

 

[Ibuki]

Come on, really? I spend $50 on loot boxes, you spend none. I won't get advantageous items when they are guaranteed? For example - some boxes guarantee a trooper card, hero card, etc. plus random items. So the guaranteed random trooper/hero and random items are still gameplay boosting cards I have and you don't, simply because I paid for them. I can buy as many as I want and keep buffing my characters while you slog and grind and face better equipped opponents. If you think that doesn't give someone and advantage I"m not sure continuing this convo will be fruitful for either of us. Maybe you already know that is obvious but are purposely being obtuse?

How about the guy who plays for 40 hours a week while I am working and ends up with better gear than me?

If you look at it this way I shouldn't play at all for fear of anyone else having an advantage.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I know there is many "definitions" of what p2w is.
The real definition is that if $ gives you ANY edge over others its p2w.

That's an extremely broad definition that covers almost all additional content in multiplayer games.

There needs to be a specific definition if people want to demonize games that are pay to win.

 

[OnionPowder]

EA fucks up yet another franchise.

Don't worry, they did that with Battlefront 1

 

[NullPointer]

Remember the secret recipe.

They take one step further in microtransactions as people accept them. Slowly.

Yep. They're trying to change consumer behavior to make the console space more like the mobile space. And to shift revenue growth from single purchases of content towards unlimited recurring ones that might not even have content as much as stat buffs and XP accelerators and the like. Printing money, with no ceiling on expenditure per player.

Publishers have wanted this since before the Xbox 360 released, and they've told us as much.

 

[MHWilliams]

Why can't devs just stick with lootboxes giving only cosmetic rewards? Paying real money to get access to new perks etc. is simply bullshit.

This is generally how I prefer the mechanic to work. I have no issues with it in Overwatch or Quake Champions, in the same way I have no issue with Forza Horizon 3's random roll wheel.

It's really true to the source material.

10/10

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

How about the guy who plays for 40 hours a week while I am working and ends up with better gear than me?

If you look at it this way I shouldn't play it all for fear of anyone else having an advantage.

 

[Ibuki]

-snip-

Did I say something confusing?

How is someone buying $50 worth of lootboxes different than someone who has way more time to play than I do?

They are both going to have better gear than me.

 

[patchday]

Oh snap this game will have loot crates? F--- that I'm out. I'd be okay with cosmetics. If I want to grind for loot I'd play a game built proper for this-- like Horizon Zero or something good like that

 

[Diablohead]

It's the loot box approach mobile games are taking lately, you keep getting the same card to increase that card's power so the more you throw at loot boxes the stronger those units become.

And now we have it in a £60 game.

 

[Oersted]

The post you referenced:



There is a difficulty mode locked behind Amiibo. There are no reason for your disagreement with their post.

That said, this is a bit of a divergence from the thread topic.

I did say it unlocks one mode though?

I simply said you "only" have to buy one figurine and you are guaranteed to get the mode.

You don't buy a Samus figurine and hope you get it and you don't potentially throw thousands of bucks at Samus figurines in hope of getting that one mode.

It is a paywall, but a very different one. Thats all.

Edit:

Spoiler

Did I phrase it that poorly?

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Jesus Christ. 😐 This is fucked up.

Why have micortransactions like this in a $60 game? Fuck you EA.

 

[Rodelero]

People seriously want this sort of stuff over season passes?

Yes, and practically anyone who has played Battlefield or Battlefront recently should too. I don't hate the notion of paying for a season pass but I hate the notion that I'm going to end up in a game with a massively fragmented user base such that I can't really play the content I want to play.

 

[nuclearaddict]

Did I say something confusing?

How is someone buying $50 worth of lootboxes different than someone who has way more time to play than I do?

They are both going to have better gear than me.

Because one guy played the game and the other gambled/paid to win. What's so hard to understand.

 

[jelly]

I tried watching a stream or two of this game and gave up because the players were pissing about with this stuff, loadouts, whatever. Actually put me off the game.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Jesus Christ. 😐 This is fucked up.

Why have micortransactions like this in a $60 game? Fuck you EA.

They're only goal is to make more money, they'll keep pushing until we force them to stop.

 

[mcrommert]

At least they let us know before hand. Will definitely looking into 2005's Battlefront 2 then this winter

Of course... It's equivalent

 

[The Faceless Master]

The cost of maps being free. Sucks but, this is what gaming is now.

Edit: I agree you can still have the boxes in game and should be cosmetic only. I just say it like I do cause it's just ingrained in gaming culture now. I never buy these things and only get it from the game how it's earned for free.

yep.

this is what we expected.

need to incentivize loot boxes if maps are free.

 

[texhnolyze]

Yep. They're trying to change consumer behavior to make the console space more like the mobile space. And to shift revenue growth from single purchases of content towards unlimited recurring ones that might not even have content as much as stat buffs and XP accelerators and the like. Printing money, with no ceiling on expenditure per player.

Publishers have wanted this since before the Xbox 360 released, and they've told us as much.

Yup.

Sadly, people who are against this like in a very niche forum like GAF are just the minority and have no power to change the behavior as a whole. What's more sad is that there are people who encourage this model even within that niche community.

It's the loot box approach mobile games are taking lately, you keep getting the same card to increase that card's power so the more you throw at loot boxes the stronger those units become.

And now we have it in a £60 game.

Yup. People defending this have no idea because they refuse to play mobile games because their models are disgusting. Surprise surprise, here is your mobile game in $60 coating!

 

[MiguelItUp]

I feel like I'm crazy for not thinking this is pay to win. Much like SG-17, I feel like it helps lessen wait time and cut corners. But it's not a "pay money and win" scenario, at least from my experience. You get items that can apparently change in-game mechanics about your character. I won't get bent out of shape until I see a situation where people CLEARLY have a one up over others because of a drop they received I will reserve negative emotions.

Crate and drop systems can be a dirty pool. Sure, taking the cosmetic route is always safest. But I'm not going to just assume it's pay to win until I get some solid examples.

 

[mcrommert]

When money replaces time... I have no issue

If competitive advantages are locked behind pay walls 8 have an issue

 

[patchday]

Yup.

Sadly, people who are against this like in a very niche forum like GAF are just the minority and have no power to change the behavior as a whole. What's more sad is that there are people who encourage this model even within that niche community.



Yup. People defending this have no idea because they refuse to play mobile games because their models are disgusting. Surprise surprise, here is your mobile game in $60 coating!

Yeah but didn't For Honor die in a fire kinda? Cause I know I didnt buy it after gaf and friends made me aware it was p2w

word of mouth is powerful. I'm gonna put this game on blast now to my friends

 

[Alienous]

Did I say something confusing?

How is someone buying $50 worth of lootboxes different than someone who has way more time to play than I do?

They are both going to have better gear than me.

For me it's the conflict of interests.

Lootboxes with gameplay-modifying items rewards the publisher financially for making the game a grind to play. They have no incentive to make the lootbox system satisfying for people who aren't paying. Why wouldn't they tune the drop rates so buying lootboxes is encouraged?

I don't want to pay $60 for the privilege of a game trying to manipulate me into giving them more money not by offering more content, but by offering less of a grind. Less of a grind in an entertainment product I paid for.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

That's an extremely broad definition that covers almost all additional content in multiplayer games.

There needs to be a specific definition if people want to demonize games that are pay to win.

There’s no need to change the definition. The fact is that many multiplayer games have become P2W now and some people are far more willing to accept it then they used to pretend they were

 

[MADGAME]

How about the guy who plays for 40 hours a week while I am working and ends up with better gear than me?

If you look at it this way I shouldn't play at all for fear of anyone else having an advantage.

For me personally, I see a distinction between earning by playing vs paying. I can see how others may view this particular situation differently.

 

[Sleight of Jam]

For fucks sake. Why is it so hard for these companies to keep loot crates as solely cosmetic items?!

I'm glad I heard about this now, definitely will not be buying this game anymore. Fuck you greedy motherfuckers. After Fortnite I am ready to take a shit on these pubs' doorsteps. Greedy pieces of trash.

 

[patchday]

Yes, and practically anyone who has played Battlefield or Battlefront recently should too. I don't hate the notion of paying for a season pass but I hate the notion that I'm going to end up in a game with a massively fragmented user base such that I can't really play the content I want to play.

It's great this works for you but there's so many other ways. Look at MOBAs. They don't fragment the player base and if they do have loot boxes its only for cosmetics to my knowledge (dota, hots, Smite, & LoL)

There is no fragmentation and the dev can still sale you new units or something

 

[thumb]

No, pay to win is when there are weapons or abilities locked behind a paywall.

That's the strictest possible definition, sure. The larger defintion, however, definitely applies to this game, as portrayed.

These are damage and durability bonuses differentially distributed to paying customers. They are designed to give paying customers more wins, on average, than equivalent, skill-matched, non-paying customers.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

For me personally, I see a distinction between earning by playing vs paying. I can see how others may view this particular situation differently.

Could you imagine running a race in which the winner used steroids or ran a shorter distance and then claimed it was fine because they felt like they didn’t have as much time to train as everyone else?

How would that go?

What an awful mess we’ve ended up in here

 

[Jacksinthe]

Jesus Christ. 😐 This is fucked up.

Why have micortransactions like this in a $60 game? Fuck you EA.

To pay for map packs and the like.

You know, things modders used to do in the PC community to keep the game on its legs before developers started locking that down.

Goddamn I grew up in the golden age. I feel bad for folks growing up only knowing this bullshit.

 

[Tovarisc]

Yes, and practically anyone who has played Battlefield or Battlefront recently should too. I don't hate the notion of paying for a season pass but I hate the notion that I'm going to end up in a game with a massively fragmented user base such that I can't really play the content I want to play.

Naaah, I'm fine without P2W / Pay 4 Power models.

 

[patchday]

To pay for map packs and the like.

You know, things modders used to do in the PC community to keep the game on its legs before developers started locking that down.

Goddamn I grew up in the golden age. I feel bad for folks growing up only knowing this bullshit.

I know right? I almost want to weep for my kids. But then again they know better cause I only let them play Nintendo games

 

[Tapejara]

My problem with the "it was either this or a season pass" argument is that there are many different monetization methods EA could have gone with:

- keep lootboxes, but make them cosmetic only (they don't need to go full neon green-Stormtrooper armor here, there are so many different designs to draw from across all of the films and supplemental work). Even outside of character skins you can include emotes, victory poses and voice overs/voice lines.
- cosmetic DLC (armor sets, weapon designs, voice overs/voice lines), shortcut kits.
- keep the season pass, but follow in Rainbow Six Siege's footsteps and make it only cover instant and early access to DLC heroes, allowing players to still share the map pool and heroes to be mixed and matched without splitting the playerbase.

I'm not the biggest fan of lootboxes in full-priced games, but I understand the need for developers to subsidize the cost of DLC in the absence of season passes and paid map packs. I just don't like the way EA and DICE have gone about it, and I think locking the equivalent of perks behind RNG boxes sets a bad precedent.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Sucks about all the loot boxes popping up left and right.

 

[texhnolyze]

Yeah but didn't For Honor die in a fire kinda? Cause I know I didnt buy it after gaf and friends made me aware it was p2w

word of mouth is powerful. I'm gonna put this game on blast now to my friends

For Honor's failure was no due to the microtransactions, but only because of other factors like new IP, new genre, and mechanics.

Microtransactions models in well-established franchise have never failed so far.

 

[patchday]

For Honor's failure was no due to the microtransactions, but only because of other factors like new IP, new genre, and mechanics.

Microtransactions models in well-established franchise have never failed so far.

But I know I for sure didnt buy it as soon as my friends told me it was pay to win. So they definitely lost out on some sales

 

[Nev]

Welp. I guess I'm going Nintendo then.

Yup an online infraestructure with backwards 2002 voice chat and P2P behind a paywall.

Way better than this. Jesus christ.

Anyways I'm fine with it as long as it means people paying can unlock things faster. Anything but that fucking garbage system of paid maps or characters splitting the community.

 

[SoaringDive]

How about the guy who plays for 40 hours a week while I am working and ends up with better gear than me?

If you look at it this way I shouldn't play at all for fear of anyone else having an advantage.

Completely agree, grinding also needs to get out of multiplayer games.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Yep, waiting for this to be at 15% price point then.

Let's all go back to Warhawk!

 

[HardRojo]

Fuck. Loot crates are the new sickness we're gonna have to slowly accept, right?

 

[Arttemis]

I feel like I'm crazy for not thinking this is pay to win. Much like SG-17, I feel like it helps lessen wait time and cut corners. But it's not a "pay money and win" scenario, at least from my experience. You get items that can apparently change in-game mechanics about your character. I won't get bent out of shape until I see a situation where people CLEARLY have a one up over others because of a drop they received I will reserve negative emotions.

Crate and drop systems can be a dirty pool. Sure, taking the cosmetic route is always safest. But I'm not going to just assume it's pay to win until I get some solid examples.

Lessen wait times and cut corners tooooo..... reach an imbalance in power distribution. That is the problem.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Lessen wait times and cut corners tooooo..... reach an imbalance in power distribution. That is the problem.

How does it cause an imbalance?


By that logic the shortcut kits that have been available for Battlefield games since Bad Company 2 are also pay to win.

 

[nuclearaddict]

Completely agree, grinding also needs to get out of multiplayer games.

Amen. It was a cheap way to fluff a games length when they were charging $15 a month for membership fees, it's just disgusting and slimy now because it's a way to entice people to spend money.

 

[Kinyou]

I think part of the issue is how Dice handles progression. Someone who plays the game a ton (or paid a ton) will have stronger characters than someone who just started. There's no tradeoff to the star cards. They don't make your weapon stronger while decreasing the firerate or something like that, they're just pure benefits.

 

[Arttemis]

How does it cause an imbalance?


By that logic the shortcut kits that have been available for Battlefield games since Bad Company 2 are also pay to win.

Are you seriously asking how 10% increased firing power, time before overheating, and even greater than 10% increase to grenade blast area over your opponent are cause for an inflatable?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

^ When you can also get those exact same bonuses by playing the game without buying crates, yes.



Battlefront 2015 had almost no grind (everything was unlocked by level 38, out of 50) and everyone was like "it's so shallow, not enough of a carrot! Add more progression!"

Now that there is much more progression it's like "there is too much of a grind, they should cut down on the progression!"

 

[Alexious]

Talk about clickbait titles. Not that I'm condoning this practice as a whole, but in no way you "win" in Star Wars Battlefront II because your grenade recharges one second faster.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

There should never ever be gameplay altering progression in any multiplayer game. Ever. Skill and skins only. I'll live with different classes too.

 

[Collateral22]

Same type of scenario as Destiny has. Non issue for me. Let people spend money for a chance at slight upgrades, wont magically make them good at the game.