Agree. It's only going down from here on.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT| It's Time For Silly OT Titles...TO END...
- Thread starter Kimawolf
- Start date
Agree. It's only going down from here on.
CaptainSmirnov
Member
Those stupid jokes ruined the movie, the movie is trying to be serious but then apparently the First Order is full of dumbasses. Lots of questionable things. Some good, but not enough to overcome the bad.
Master Nairb
Member
I think it's safe to say ...
... as much as I don't like saying it, that TLJ is not a well-made movie. That is what surprised me the most. I liked the last 2 Disney SW movies. They weren't perfect and had flaws but they were entertaining and carefully crafted. TFA left me with a lot of questions. TLJ, at this point, I could care less about what happens in the next movie.
Two things really rubbed me wrong with TLJ. First of all, I was surprised by how cheesy many of the special effects looked. I wonder if my theater's projection screen was not calibrated, but the CGI really stood out to me, especially during scenes like when Finn and the girl were on horses or other various action scenes. Even with the prequels, I always left the theater pretty blown away but the crazy special effects ... and it wouldn't be until years later after those effects aged, did I personally notice how bad hey had become in relation to the new movies being made today. But in TLJ, I felt on many occasions, I was surprised with the bad CGI. There were a few amazing special effects in TLJ but there were also a lot of crummy effects too, in my opinion.
The second thing I could not stand about TLJ, which I firmly believe people will come around and agree with me after the hoopla of its release dissipates, is the entire Finn and Girl arc-plot. Who was this girl? Why was she in the movie? Those scenes were painful and boring, and I felt were just made to give Finn something to do. The movie was 2 and half hours long; they could have cut that entire 40-minute segment out and made a much more compelling and tightened movie. I have never felt bored in a star wars movie, even with the prequels I was never consistently bored for long bouts of time. But the first hour of this movie was cringy, and my friends and I were whispering utter disbelief at how much we were not enjoying it.
In the end, what hurts the most, and I specifically use the word 'hurts' on purpose, is that I never thought in a million years, a SW film could be made so disjointed. I have enjoyed all the films, to include the prequels to a certain extent, up to now. I have my favorites and my least favorable ones, but I always felt were all made with a concentrated effort and creativity. This one, just feels wrong and weird; the editing, the pacing, the plot points?
I could be wrong on this, but when Force Awakens was first released in December 2015, at that time, this movie (the last Jedi) was scheduled to be released in spring of 2018. However, when the force Awakens blew up the box office, Disney decided they were going to have a new star wars release every December. I could be mis-remebering this, but regardless, I feel the version of The Last Jedi in theaters right now is the first or second cut of the final film. It is not edited tightly enough to be in the caliber of the two previous SW films. I look forward to reading or watching interviews with crew members behind the scenes to see if this release was rushed out the door.
Overall, I thought it was a poor movie. It had some exciting scenes, interesting themes, and some decent surprises ... but as a complete movie; no way. I'm seeing people saying it is better than Empire, but honestly, I think this movie is prequel level of clunky oddness that sometimes works and a lot of times, does not.
I'm wondering if the version of the movie that all the Critics got to see last week was a different cut of the film. Because they seem to love it, and I mean, really really love it, and out of the 15 or so coworkers, friends, family members I have discussed the film with since Thursday, there have only been 2 people who enjoyed it. Everyone else seems to agree with my criticism, so there seems to be some sort of extreme dissonance occurring that I haven't seen with a film in a long time.
... as much as I don't like saying it, that TLJ is not a well-made movie. That is what surprised me the most. I liked the last 2 Disney SW movies. They weren't perfect and had flaws but they were entertaining and carefully crafted. TFA left me with a lot of questions. TLJ, at this point, I could care less about what happens in the next movie.
Two things really rubbed me wrong with TLJ. First of all, I was surprised by how cheesy many of the special effects looked. I wonder if my theater's projection screen was not calibrated, but the CGI really stood out to me, especially during scenes like when Finn and the girl were on horses or other various action scenes. Even with the prequels, I always left the theater pretty blown away but the crazy special effects ... and it wouldn't be until years later after those effects aged, did I personally notice how bad hey had become in relation to the new movies being made today. But in TLJ, I felt on many occasions, I was surprised with the bad CGI. There were a few amazing special effects in TLJ but there were also a lot of crummy effects too, in my opinion.
The second thing I could not stand about TLJ, which I firmly believe people will come around and agree with me after the hoopla of its release dissipates, is the entire Finn and Girl arc-plot. Who was this girl? Why was she in the movie? Those scenes were painful and boring, and I felt were just made to give Finn something to do. The movie was 2 and half hours long; they could have cut that entire 40-minute segment out and made a much more compelling and tightened movie. I have never felt bored in a star wars movie, even with the prequels I was never consistently bored for long bouts of time. But the first hour of this movie was cringy, and my friends and I were whispering utter disbelief at how much we were not enjoying it.
In the end, what hurts the most, and I specifically use the word 'hurts' on purpose, is that I never thought in a million years, a SW film could be made so disjointed. I have enjoyed all the films, to include the prequels to a certain extent, up to now. I have my favorites and my least favorable ones, but I always felt were all made with a concentrated effort and creativity. This one, just feels wrong and weird; the editing, the pacing, the plot points?
I could be wrong on this, but when Force Awakens was first released in December 2015, at that time, this movie (the last Jedi) was scheduled to be released in spring of 2018. However, when the force Awakens blew up the box office, Disney decided they were going to have a new star wars release every December. I could be mis-remebering this, but regardless, I feel the version of The Last Jedi in theaters right now is the first or second cut of the final film. It is not edited tightly enough to be in the caliber of the two previous SW films. I look forward to reading or watching interviews with crew members behind the scenes to see if this release was rushed out the door.
Overall, I thought it was a poor movie. It had some exciting scenes, interesting themes, and some decent surprises ... but as a complete movie; no way. I'm seeing people saying it is better than Empire, but honestly, I think this movie is prequel level of clunky oddness that sometimes works and a lot of times, does not.
I'm wondering if the version of the movie that all the Critics got to see last week was a different cut of the film. Because they seem to love it, and I mean, really really love it, and out of the 15 or so coworkers, friends, family members I have discussed the film with since Thursday, there have only been 2 people who enjoyed it. Everyone else seems to agree with my criticism, so there seems to be some sort of extreme dissonance occurring that I haven't seen with a film in a long time.
Thank you for this. Sometimes it feels lonely in this side of the galaxy.
"Clunky" is the perfect adjective to describe this movie.
Shouta
Member
It's probably not a different cut that critics saw though I've heard it sometimes happens? I would say it's probably a matter of viewpoint they're using and their expectations of the film from the position of a critic.That often can cause dissonance between critics and audiences. It actually happens pretty often as the types of criticisms can vastly differ between the two groups.
Rose and Finn's thread is about the only real downside to the film for me. Even then though, I enjoyed it and it lead to something in the main plot thread. I'm not sure how obvious it is for people but it also provides Finn with more characterization and development as well. Perhaps not the way folks would want it but it's there, I think.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Walked out the cinema in disbelief. Nothing to do with "locked fan theories" going in beforehand like some are saying to those who are not positive. Just felt it wasn't a good movie, it felt messy, pacing/editing all over the place, wooden dialogue and performances, the score overusing themes when a character appeared on screen, characters trying to one up the previous one liner from a previous scene.
I actually like the idea of doing something different with a franchise, it helps prevent staleness but it's all in the overall execution which I feel was flat. The cinematography was gorgeous though, the island Luke lives on, wonderfully shot.
Master Nairb
Member
Yeah, I don't get it. I'm not a psychologist or anything but I think people are trying very hard to defend this movie even though it has some extremely weak portions all over, that in the end, add up to making an incomplete and inconsistent package that can't be ignored. I get people are defending it so strongly. Hell, I've defended the prequels for years even though I've admitted and believe that they are not as good as the original trilogy. We love Star Wars. I love Star Wars more than any other franchise or entertainment ... but this was the first one where I felt, maybe I'm just getting older and these movies are not being able to impress me as much as they used to because I've seen so many of them. I don't want to knock people who like this movie because I hated when people knocked me because I liked The Phantom Menace, but TLJ for me, was the film that I can't defend.
Episode 9 has a lot going against it. It needs to tie up this new trilogy and balance it out, as well as figure out how it will correctly finish the entire 9 film saga into one complete package. Maybe they will be able to, and I'm hoping they will.
snausagesUK
Member
For me it doesn't come down to any one decision like how they handle series lore or develop a certain character. Just as a film it felt incredibly unpleasant to sit through. The narrative had a flow like that of a cheese-grater over your knee. The plot was complicated and not engaging, at least not when it went away from the Kylo Ren stuff.
I think they would have been further ahead just to completely re-hash the original trilogy. Snoke should have been a deformed Palpatine and Kylo and Rey should have duked it out at the end of the 3rd movie like Vader and Luke did in ROTJ. I don't even know what they're trying to do in these movies.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I don't think you did, they out did Phantom Menace stupidity in this one but at least we could laugh that off with TPM
And I don't think Johnson even watched TFA, he must of just come in and said "nope, fuck that and that!" to everything in TFA " And fuck the other 6 films too."
but opinions and all.
As for rating.
TFA: 7/10
Rogue One: 8/10
TLJ: 4/10
The Prequal Trilogy are masterpieces compared to TLJ.
The fact that this is the firs thing you mentioned shows you're searching for reasons.
It was showing the audience how Luke has needed to live while on that island. It wasn't going to be pleasant. That's the point.
It showed she was able to master the Force much like her brother was. It was a completely badass moment.
Snoke has back story. It's just not important for the audience to know it. He's not the villain of the trilogy. Kylo Ren is.
And uh, Rey has a backstory. We know it.
Rey doesn't need to be related to a character we know in order to have a "backstory."
Taliban Stan
Member
I liked this more than TFA.
Things I don't like:
- There's a lot of kinda corny comedy bits from New Order characters
- Snoke has no back story, but that's more of a carry over from TFA where not explaining where this new order thing came from.
- Snoke got put down extremely easily.
- It ends on such a positive note that I actually forgot this was only 2/3 of a trilogy and not the final. All that's left is Kylo and TFA showed us that he has no shot whatsoever against Ren.
Things I do like:
- One of the first scenes was Snoke lambasting Kylo for being completely outclassed by a rookie.
- A bad guy got flung by a force projection
- A non force wielder tried to chump off Kylo and rather than him take it like some sad kid getting bullied, he force choked him or threw him into a wall at max velocity
- Snoke has a really dope room and looks like he's wearing a silk robe like a pimp on chill.
- They finally showed what the people in full body armor who protect the Emperor can do in a fight.
- More weapons that you see in the games and cartoons showed up (saber whip)
- I liked the Kylo and Rey stuff even though it was kinda corny at times.
- Luke had a cool action scene that ended with him chumping someone off.
- Kylo's invitation to Rey made me remember fun times in KOTOR when me and Bastilla ran through the Sith to take our rightful spots as the new leadership.
I liked it overall. If we're talking fantastical action movies made by Disney, I liked this about as much as Dr. Strange and Civil War but way less than Winter Soldier (those are in my Top 5 Marvel Studios movies).
I wonder what they will do for the third one. Kylo can't beat Rey and his first move as Supreme Leader was to get made a fool of by Luke and let the Rebels escape while a regular human actually had the proper game plan... so it's not like he's going to have some military scheme that has any shot of success. The New Order should kinda be in shambles under his reign. Will they CGI Carrie Fischer? They had multiple chances to end her character but they didn't and one time they even magically brought her back to life. It makes me think they have no intention of not using her likeness going forward.
The most surprising thing for me was that I walked out not hating Kylo Ren. I still think he's a joke, he'll be rofl stomped by Rey and none of his plans will succeed to any degree... but he had a cool fight scene that he didn't lose completely and some regular dude tried to chump him off and he gave that guy the only response a Sith Lord or Apprentice should ever give a non force user who has seemingly forgotten that the force is a real thing and you should fear people who can wield it.
Things I don't like:
- There's a lot of kinda corny comedy bits from New Order characters
- Snoke has no back story, but that's more of a carry over from TFA where not explaining where this new order thing came from.
- Snoke got put down extremely easily.
- It ends on such a positive note that I actually forgot this was only 2/3 of a trilogy and not the final. All that's left is Kylo and TFA showed us that he has no shot whatsoever against Ren.
Things I do like:
- One of the first scenes was Snoke lambasting Kylo for being completely outclassed by a rookie.
- A bad guy got flung by a force projection
- A non force wielder tried to chump off Kylo and rather than him take it like some sad kid getting bullied, he force choked him or threw him into a wall at max velocity
- Snoke has a really dope room and looks like he's wearing a silk robe like a pimp on chill.
- They finally showed what the people in full body armor who protect the Emperor can do in a fight.
- More weapons that you see in the games and cartoons showed up (saber whip)
- I liked the Kylo and Rey stuff even though it was kinda corny at times.
- Luke had a cool action scene that ended with him chumping someone off.
- Kylo's invitation to Rey made me remember fun times in KOTOR when me and Bastilla ran through the Sith to take our rightful spots as the new leadership.
I liked it overall. If we're talking fantastical action movies made by Disney, I liked this about as much as Dr. Strange and Civil War but way less than Winter Soldier (those are in my Top 5 Marvel Studios movies).
I wonder what they will do for the third one. Kylo can't beat Rey and his first move as Supreme Leader was to get made a fool of by Luke and let the Rebels escape while a regular human actually had the proper game plan... so it's not like he's going to have some military scheme that has any shot of success. The New Order should kinda be in shambles under his reign. Will they CGI Carrie Fischer? They had multiple chances to end her character but they didn't and one time they even magically brought her back to life. It makes me think they have no intention of not using her likeness going forward.
The most surprising thing for me was that I walked out not hating Kylo Ren. I still think he's a joke, he'll be rofl stomped by Rey and none of his plans will succeed to any degree... but he had a cool fight scene that he didn't lose completely and some regular dude tried to chump him off and he gave that guy the only response a Sith Lord or Apprentice should ever give a non force user who has seemingly forgotten that the force is a real thing and you should fear people who can wield it.
DarkestHour
Banned
Are you sure you even watched the movie? How do you not know how the girl is? How do you not know how she met Finn?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Come on this is like defending Shumacker's Batman or independence day resurgence
Yeah Wow.
Setzer
Member
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Plus I thought Snoke was a wasted character. Dude seemed to be more powerful than Palpatine and bam he's dead and we know nothing about him.
Also, as far as critics seeing a different cut of the film, I remember reading one critic who wrote an outline of all the events in the film after his screening and he mentioned a scene where Chewbacca shows up to pickup Rey in the falcon after her encounter with Kylo and Snoke. I don't recall seeing that scene in the movie.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I thought this was a good film. I'd rate it 8 out of 10. Not as good as the originals, but excellent nonetheless. A little cheesy in places.
I understand the criticism. But, these were choices the director had to make, no right or wrong.
I thought they handled the decisions they made as best they could.
As an example, some of the effects, props, looked fake. This may have been intentional, as a way to reference back to the original films for us old people.
I understand the criticism. But, these were choices the director had to make, no right or wrong.
I thought they handled the decisions they made as best they could.
As an example, some of the effects, props, looked fake. This may have been intentional, as a way to reference back to the original films for us old people.
no one can believe this. cmon now
Neither do I.
Btw, how did she get out of that base?
Last we saw she was force fighting kylo for the lightsaber.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Surprised people were upset with no Snoke back story, i mean did you feel the same way about Palpatine in ep 5,6 because we knew nothing about him and he got killed. If anything Kylo Ren is a better villain than Vader because Kylo killed his master to fulfill his destiny, be completely unhinged and in control whilst vader just died.
We only got the back story of palpatine almost two decades later.
We only got the back story of palpatine almost two decades later.
the snoke character is more directly related to kylo's arc than the emperor ever was for vader. vader wasnt half the character kylo is with regards to how the scripts have been written. surely this should be obvious. excluding snoke's presence and his role in turning kylo is a huge missed opportunity that (retro)actively weakens all elements of both films (TFA and TLJ). its a gap that absolutely should have been filled.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
Did u just say snoke is more integral to kylos story than palpatine was to vader? I mean it literally is the same story, they were both influenced by the dark side for a reason and they both pulled the strings on their apprentice only thing different is like kylo said he actually is a monster and killed his master solidifying his darkness. Kylo doesnt care for light or dark as he said in the movie he just wants to be a monster. And now he can be with snoke out of the way. Kylo is now the supreme leader and the face of death no longer snoke.
BattleMonkey
Member
We knew the basics of the Emperor's story and it was built up to ROTJ. Snoke is a primary bad guy pulling strings from day 1 in TFA, while the Emperor was only hinted at briefly in the first movie and then partially revealed and discussed more in ESB.
The problem also is that this is a continuation of established lore, the OT had no established lore so we accept what is presented. The new trilogy is continuing and established time line and lore was created that now creates questions that need answering.
Where does this super powerful Snoke come from? What is he not a sith? Why is he so powerful? Luke while teaching Ben knew of Snoke, so how and why? How does Snoke even come into leadership of the first order? Oh wait he's dead.... oh well. You don't kill what is supposed to be a major plot element without explaining it. The Emperor in the OT, we knew his shtick and it was all pretty much laid out for a person by the time he was dead, and it was the climax of a trilogy.
no, thats not what i meant. what i mean is that kylo is more character critical to how this trilogy of films has been developed. we are asked to empathize with him, to wonder why he betrayed luke and killed his father. and so we should rightfully be asking who was this figure that lured him away from the light, organized the new order, and set the action in motion? these questions are more pressing to the snoke character than the scripts of the original trilogy ever made for the emperor and vader. his exclusion is poor show all around. evidently it just doesnt matter. its poor writing and planning, i suspect
What people seem to forget is that the baton is being handed back to the person who asked these questions in the first place - questions that have either not been answered in this film, or answered in a way to intentionally rile the audience.
Turnabout is fair play, I think JJ will have fun contradicting some assumptions made about this film the same way Rian did to him.
Turnabout is fair play, I think JJ will have fun contradicting some assumptions made about this film the same way Rian did to him.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
This is why although I don't agree with Rian direction I'm accepting it and will see how JJ spins it.
It's still very disappointing considering the circumstances.
I am okay with Snoke being who he was and that being the end of it. For a movie that is constantly misdirecting the audience,
I think Kylo's revelation that Rey's parents were "nobodies"
In that way, Rian gets to give his version of the answer that stays consistent with the tone/mission state of his film, but it's not necessarily the final answer, if that makes sense. It would make a nice twist on the ESB "I am your father" scene and Luke's subsequent struggles coming to terms with it - what if Vader had lied and it wasn't true? As an audience, we didn't have this answer for sure until ROTJ.
I am also okay with it just being left alone as well, but I do think that ultimately, we only have 2/3 of this story and there are still new things to be revealed or contradicted before its all set in stone and put to bed.
Revolutionary
Member
Don't worry, we'll find out all these details and MORE in the Snoke Standalone Film from Disney-Fox
Everyone is contextualizing
Back then, Palpatine was just "The Emperor" and he was a hologram that showed up for 2 minutes in ESB before we are introduced to him as an ominous but seemingly frail old man in ROTJ. The ANH novelization mentioned "Senator Palpatine" but that was it.
So yes, I imagine that much like the PT providing Sheev with a proper backstory, if Snoke isn't re-addressed directly in IX, there will probably be a movie for that someday. Not a "Disney" thing necessarily, it's just the way it's always been done.
Much like the ANH novel minimally explaining Palpatine's rise, so too does the EU do the same for Snoke.
Snoke's lack of a backstory reveal against Palpatine's history through a 6 film series, not just the OT where he was introduced
Back then, Palpatine was just "The Emperor" and he was a hologram that showed up for 2 minutes in ESB before we are introduced to him as an ominous but seemingly frail old man in ROTJ. The ANH novelization mentioned "Senator Palpatine" but that was it.
So yes, I imagine that much like the PT providing Sheev with a proper backstory, if Snoke isn't re-addressed directly in IX, there will probably be a movie for that someday. Not a "Disney" thing necessarily, it's just the way it's always been done.
Much like the ANH novel minimally explaining Palpatine's rise, so too does the EU do the same for Snoke.
No backstory for Snoke doesn't bother me. The Emperor had no backstory either until the prequels. None whatsoever. No clue how the Emperor came to power. Why he seemed to be the only person in the galaxy that Vader feared. Why he could shoot lightning bolts from his fingers. Why did he look like a wrinkled frog under that Cowel. What's up with those red eyes??
I mean my god if the OT had to try and survive with today's internet scrutiny, it wouldn't have stood a chance. They would clearly be labeled the worst set of movies ever put on film.
I mean my god if the OT had to try and survive with today's internet scrutiny, it wouldn't have stood a chance. They would clearly be labeled the worst set of movies ever put on film.
Master Nairb
Member
I knew who the girl was, and I now understand her name to be Rose. I was just surprised that they decided to give so much screen time to another new character that we have never heard of. Especially after the TFA introduced us to so many new characters that we wanted to get to know better like Rey, Poe, Finn, Snoke, and Maz.
So the TLJ has the difficult process of trying to process all these characters which is pretty hard to do since there is such limited time.
Rey
Poe
Finn
Kylo
Snoke
Maz
BB 8
C3P0
R2D2
Luke
Leia
Maz
Chewbacca
Captain Phasma
Hux
And all these characters need some sort of screen time, obviously some more than others, but we especially want to know more about the 3 main characters we met in TFA. Then, this movie adds 3 new characters to the mix and gives them all a lot of screen time - (Purple Hair lady, Rose, and Del Toro).
I was surprised by that decision to really bulk out the cast and I feel personally that's why the movie felt sluggish and bloated to me because it seemed like we were being overloaded with so many different characters.
Also, on a personal note when it comes to Rose - Finn is Rey's man, and I was interested in how those 2 characters were going to deepen their intimacy in this film .. but they eventually just canned it. It felt weird to me.
Palpatine works because his existence flows logically from the accepted tenets of the established universe. The audience accepts that an Empire has an Emperor, and he's mentioned as existing in ANH. It's clear that Vader, Tarkin, and the Moffs at the board room meeting in ANH are answering to this guy. It's explained that somehow Vader was seduced to the dark side and trained in the dark arts, so it logically flows that the person Vader answers to was a powerful dark sider. The Emperor's confirmation as the dark side Master of Vader in ESB confirms a lot of assumptions that audience was already making and relieves the audience of questions. The Emperor never comes out of nowhere.
Snoke doesn't work as well because this new trilogy is a continuation and so the audience believes that they're in full possession of the backstory and so things better flow logically. To begin with the First Order's existence and military strength is already shaky ground, but Snoke's existence contradicts a lot of assumptions that the audience has been making. Why is he so powerful in the dark side? He would have to be trained by Palpatine or Vader, but Snoke was never mentioned in the original trilogy. I thought Vader helped the Emperor hunt down and destroy force users. Snoke is also pretty old, and if Palptine and Vader could sense Luke's disturbance in the force, why couldn't they sense Snoke's? Questions, questions, questions.
In short, Palpatine is the answer to most of the assumptions the audience has been making, while Snoke contradicts everything and raises dozens of questions that the audience is justified in demanding satisfying answers to. Reveals that answer questions are satisfying, reveals that contradict assumptions and are left unanswered are discomforting.
Snoke doesn't work as well because this new trilogy is a continuation and so the audience believes that they're in full possession of the backstory and so things better flow logically. To begin with the First Order's existence and military strength is already shaky ground, but Snoke's existence contradicts a lot of assumptions that the audience has been making. Why is he so powerful in the dark side? He would have to be trained by Palpatine or Vader, but Snoke was never mentioned in the original trilogy. I thought Vader helped the Emperor hunt down and destroy force users. Snoke is also pretty old, and if Palptine and Vader could sense Luke's disturbance in the force, why couldn't they sense Snoke's? Questions, questions, questions.
In short, Palpatine is the answer to most of the assumptions the audience has been making, while Snoke contradicts everything and raises dozens of questions that the audience is justified in demanding satisfying answers to. Reveals that answer questions are satisfying, reveals that contradict assumptions and are left unanswered are discomforting.
Master Nairb
Member
I'm in the camp that has been disappointed so far on no Snoke explanation, but I think they'll explain it in episode 9, so I'm not too concerned.
My curiosity simply stems from being interested in what exactly happened in the 30 years between ROTJ and TFA. I think many fans that grew up in the 80s and 90s have always wondered what they were going to do if they wanted to continue the story after ROTJ. And especially after the prequels, I felt those first 6 movies did an incredible job of really showing that the Emperor and Vader were so powerful, to the point of when they were defeated, I thought no one else would be able to ever amass that amount of power again.
Then in TFA we see that someone has and appears incredibly powerful. And I don't care if Snoke is just a folly that turns out to be weaker or unimportant; I just feel like this new trilogy might be a victim of what I call the 'Dragon-Ball Z' problem. Where in order to continue the series they would constantly make a new bad guy pop out of nowhere that just kept on getting more powerful, simply to continue the series. Freeza is the most powerful, no wait, Cell is the most powerful, oh wait, Majin Buu is now the most powerful enemy of all time.
Again, I feel I am a very patient Star Wars fan, and there is another movie in this new trilogy where some of these curiosities may be explained. I just hope they do.
Master Nairb
Member
This. Thank you for being able to articulate exactly what I've been trying to say to my friends. One of my favorite things about Star Wars has always been after seeing the new movies, my friends and I would stay up and just ask Question after Question about what was going to happen next. One thing TFA did extremely well was set up so many questions ... that unfortunately, so far, have not been answered well in my opinion.
I try very hard not to be narcissistic, but I'm starting to fear that when they started this new trilogy, the writers really didn't have a strong outline of atleast where they wanted to steer the story, and instead are just playing a weird game of 'I'll add some stuff, then pass it to my buddy for him/her to add on top. It's starting to feel a little like a game of improvising as we go along, and hopefully, someone can tie this all together. We'll see. I still have faith!
I really like what you said and agree.
My own ratings
TFA: 5/10, really rough, really dumb, but not bad. Could have gone places
Rogue One: 7/10, a good genre movie.
TLJ: 2 or 3/10 and i don't want to rewatch it to find out how bad it really is. i wasted about 3 hours of my life on this shit. There's a few specks of good scenes and themes scattered in this shit nugget, but it's not worth digging through it to get at them. Awful experience and I'm not going to bother with the third movie after this.
BTW, what do you rate TPM? I have it at a 6.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
About the same, it had its silly moments but there is a lot of stand out moments that will always be rememberble.
ROS is probably my favourite from the Prequel trilogy
CD'S BAR
Member
I had low expectations after TFA but I was pleasantly surprised, for the most part.
I loved how they got rid of Snoke (aka Palpatine 2) and didn't make the prequel-esqe move of tying everyone to everything by making Rey the daughter of some main character. We don't need another another I am your father, brother, whatever moment.
Johnson trying somewhat to clean up the shit established by TFA, the film that set the precedent for this trilogy to be at best a remix of the OT (TLJ included).
I loved how they got rid of Snoke (aka Palpatine 2) and didn't make the prequel-esqe move of tying everyone to everything by making Rey the daughter of some main character. We don't need another another I am your father, brother, whatever moment.
Johnson trying somewhat to clean up the shit established by TFA, the film that set the precedent for this trilogy to be at best a remix of the OT (TLJ included).
By tossing it away or ignoring it? That's shit.
And I'm not even talking about Rey's parents, which can be brought up again anyway (like how Darth Vader killed Luke's father, according to Obi Wan). Why the fuck does Rey care if she's special or not? She just wanted to meet her parents again, at least, that was her entire motivation in staying on Jaku in the first movie.
And it's pretty clear that this is mostly stuff for Disney to do whatever they want with future movies, because they don't want to be beholden to Luca's mythos anymore.
That scene with the jedi tree? Symbolism 101.
Way too meta for my taste.
BANGS
Banned
I think in general a big problem with this new series is it's purposely trying hard to be as mysterious as possible, and dropping the ball hard. When we first saw empire strikes back, we weren't expecting some big ass reveal. We were just enjoying a good movie when the bomb dropped at the end.
This series started setting up all kinds of mysteries and people are expecting all kinds of bombs to drop, but they all end up being duds. The payoff for the mystery sucked, and made me really wish they were just more straightforward from the start...
Also, regarding certain superman force powers, that shit is ridiculous. It's getting like DBZ now, everybody's a fucking super saiyan so nobody cares anymore...
This series started setting up all kinds of mysteries and people are expecting all kinds of bombs to drop, but they all end up being duds. The payoff for the mystery sucked, and made me really wish they were just more straightforward from the start...
Also, regarding certain superman force powers, that shit is ridiculous. It's getting like DBZ now, everybody's a fucking super saiyan so nobody cares anymore...
Porcile
Member
There was some memorably good stuff and some stuff which felt like something taken straight out of the prequels. i don't like The Force Awakens much at all, but nothing in that film was as bad as that stupid alien horse scene. And ultimately Snoke gets reduced to the importance of someone like Count Dooku. Really really weird film.
Hissing Sid
Member
Watching the last Jedi was like going to see Pink Floyds latest gig and having them play a set of Justin Beiber material. A total rejection of everything theyve promoted and stood for, for the past four decades.
Holy shit I still cant believe what theyve done. Disney better hope that the half that does like the new direction are the half that goes out and spends six hundred quid on Lego Millenium falcons.
Bet theres a few twitchy bean counters at Mouse HQ right now, regardless of the weekend BO take.
Holy shit I still cant believe what theyve done. Disney better hope that the half that does like the new direction are the half that goes out and spends six hundred quid on Lego Millenium falcons.
Bet theres a few twitchy bean counters at Mouse HQ right now, regardless of the weekend BO take.
I just listened to an hour long WGA Q&A with Rian Johnson from yesterday and he explains why there was no Snoke backstory.
His explanation was that he was done writing TLJ before JJ had finished Episode VII. So he basically wrote the movie before all of these fan theories came out and people started to put so much importance on wanting to know more about Snoke. For him, he didn't really want to do another Emperor/Vader dynamic because that had been done before. He felt like when writing Episode VII, for Kylo to grow as a character, to get to the place that Kylo needed to be by the end of the movie, then Snoke had to go. Rian didn't say it in so many words, but the feeling I got from him was that Snoke was much more of a pawn to Kylo than Kylo was to Snoke. The entire gist of his explanation is that this is much more Kylo's story than it is Snoke's so what are you going to spend your writing time and screen time working on? The person that the entire story or trilogy is about, or someone who really wasn't all that important in telling the story of the journey of one of the main, if not THE main character.
VVV Mars VG
Member
That would explain how he shoe-horns in story likes to fit his context rather than working with what was already there. Lots of scenes made up to deliver a specific message whether they fitted or not.
I don't care that they killed Snoke, but how it was done.
Ben got his ass kicked in TFA.
But it was fine, many assumed he will train under Snoke and become a real badass.
Now we find Snoke is a wimp. So now what?
How is Kylo getting stronger now? If he doesn't, why would I care when he had be beaten so many times by now.
I assume he got another beating by Rey in the throne room after they killed all the guards...
Ben got his ass kicked in TFA.
But it was fine, many assumed he will train under Snoke and become a real badass.
Now we find Snoke is a wimp. So now what?
How is Kylo getting stronger now? If he doesn't, why would I care when he had be beaten so many times by now.
I assume he got another beating by Rey in the throne room after they killed all the guards...