I think you're giving the OT way too much lenience there. Luke received less than a day's training from Obi-Wan, that's it. Then suddenly he figures out how to Force Grab at the start of 5 (heck, not only did Obi Wan never teach him that, Obi Wan never even used it in 4). People try to argue, "well, he trained between 4 and 5!" which I find skeptical since a day's training should give one enough foundation to begin self-training (I mean, if we can be skeptical of the 2014 Ninja Turtles' Splinter learning martial arts by reading a book, why not apply the same skepticism here?) His training with Yoda could not have been more than two weeks tops (and even that's generous, seriously how long could Han believe that "the Falcon is still being worked on" plus not think C-3PO being gone for so long was suspicious?) and yet he manages to not fully embarrass himself in a fight against DARTH VADER (who was not suffering from a major shot in the leg or emotionally split over a recent event). Now in 6 Luke being where he's at I can work with, the two weeks or less with Yoda could be enough foundation for him to self-train between 5 and 6. But 4 and 5, let's not pretend Luke's progression wasn't pretty rapid.
Now onto Rey:
- yes, but again Luke also suddenly could Force Grab. Also both of them fail in their first attempt and have to calm themselves before succeeding
- because Kylo had no idea Rey was Force Sensitive at the time so it makes sense he would be caught off guard. Snoke knew what he was dealing with and is also stronger in the Force than Kylo hence why he succeeded in reading Rey's mind
- I don't think that's an unreasonable distance for a Force Grab. Also again, Kylo assumed Rey was unconscious so he was caught off guard by someone else using Force Grab for it. Also worth noting is that the hand he was using was the side where Finn knicked his shoulder in their fight so that may have messed with his concentration
- "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not." Also, are you implying an X-wing completely submerged underneath water would be easier to lift than some boulders? That's debatable.
- you know, people seem to conveniently forget this, but Rey had a staff the entire movie. Obviously she knew how to handle close combat weapons, the same with Finn as we see stormtroopers not utilize close combat weapons as well. Also, people also seem to never want to mention how Kylo is dominating the first half of the fight against Rey, constantly pushing her back. Only when she lets the Force in does she win and again he was suffering from a significant wound and split over killing Han. Also, your Lebron comparison is way off. First of all, TFA has Snoke saying at the end that Kylo has to finish his training so Kylo apparently isn't even at Jedi Knight level of power yet. Also, I'm pretty sure I would beat Lebron in a game of basketball if he HAD BEEN SHOT IN THE LEG. And never played the game before? Seriously, do people think Rey just had the staff as a cute accessory?
- I am really tired of how often people seem to have been apparently drunk or whatever when they saw this fight. Rey grabs her staff and Luke grabs a stick. Rey has used her staff for god knows how many years whereas Luke hasn't fought anyone in years (unless we're supposed to believe he was going around fighting the Caretakers and Porgs). Also Rey has both hands on her staff while Luke has one hand on his stick. AND YET LUKE STILL DISARMS HER. Rey only proceeds to win because she draws her lightsaber but unless you actually think the fact that a lightsaber would slice through that stick no problem somehow makes Rey too OP, I think that's all there is to say about that.
Also, you make Rey sound infallible. She got captured by Kylo and only escaped because Kylo underestimated her and didn't have her guarded properly. She is helpless against Snoke and only lives because Kylo betrays Snoke. You also seem to think Kylo at the climax of 7 is the Kylo we'll have in 9 which is obviously incorrect. 8 was about him finally throwing away his past connections and embracing what he thinks is his destiny. He's no longer split, when he faces Rey in 9 he'll be giving it his all in their fight.
I agree there are patches of Luke's development that could have been improved slightly or could have been expanded upon further. However, I would argue the following in response to your points:
Luke is at least introduced to the force, the very concept of it, by someone much more experienced. He is given some framework what it is, and how it works, in a somewhat ambiguous way, but there is a huge difference between two methods here. Hinting at something and letting the audience connect the dots logically, while drawing from our own world logic and experiences is what happens in the OT. In the ST, it seems as though we now have to refer to interviews and novelizations to fill in the blanks that the movie forgot to tell the audience. There's actually a passage of time between ANH and ESB. If Luke was told about something and at least taught the most basic concepts of it, I can buy into the fact that he continued to toy around with it, and figured out how to manipulate it just by sheer trial and error. Let's use a music analogy. If someone is naturally gifted with music, and some virtuoso level player gives them one lesson, of the most basic fundamentals, along with an introduction, can I buy into the fact that they can work out a few simple phrases on their own, albeit in a somewhat clunky way, given months or years to hammer away at it on their own?
Yes. It's not like Luke's saber pull in the snow was demonstrative of some great force user. He makes several attempts and is shown to be straining to pull something barely out of his reach. It was only when his life was on the line that he made it work, finally. The mere fact that he closes his eyes, suggests to me that he has perhaps attempted something similar before and realizes that he needs to focus in order to do this, but should be something within his ability overall.
Let's contrast with the new movies: I already brought this up earlier, but how much time passes in between TFA and TLJ? We're talking about a matter of
days. Who tells Rey about the force? Han? He isn't a force user, and is basically there to state that something people used to believe in, actually exists. We as the audience of course know that, but it's essentially passed into myth by the time Rey and Finn end up on the Falcon. How would she have any idea of these concepts or how they work? Especially as the parents of junkers, living alone, with no meaningful relationships, friends or family on a deserted planet, according to the brilliant subversions of Rian Johnson. Yet, she can mind trick, force pull and force repel in her first on screen adventure? Why? Because reasons? Can you remind me of where Rey struggles to force pull the saber in the snow against Kylo? I seem to recall that he is actually the one who struggles to pull it, thereby reinforcing yet again, what a wuss he is, and how sub-par of a threat he represents. These are supposed to be requirements for any decent villain, but especially the main antagonist. Anyways, when the camera pans over to show that it was Rey that grabs it, she looks about as shocked as the audience would. "As in, how the fuck do I have these powers already?" and proceeds to whoop his whiny little punkass.
Fast forward to TLJ, is Luke the one to train Rey? Well, no, because what lessons does Luke impart upon Rey? Pretty much nothing. Not to worry though, she can manipulate physical objects with ease now, and just makes jokes about it, while doing so. "Lifing rocks? pffft, that's nothing. Watch this!" That's her one character flaw by the way, she has no other faults to speak of, but she actually just goes around being bored of how awesome she is. Thank you Rian, very compelling
To tackle the bullet points:
- Rey beats Kylo in TFA. This is indisputable. The audience has seen a hero who was supposed to be at the start of their journey beat someone far more experienced. We can argue about the circumstances (injury, emotions) all we like, but she still beats him, regardless of how many excuses we make. Snoke berates Kylo for this in the very next movie. If Snoke doesn't think that he's any good at what he does, why should the audience? What has he demonstrated so far? Murdering an old man? Destroying a room on Starkiller Base? Having yet ANOTHER temper tantrum in an elevator on the Supremacy? Where is the threat? Where is the menace? In any event, Kylo does not beat Rey in TLJ, even though, the middle act is supposed to be the darkest point of a trilogy. I would argue that the results of the throne room scene on Snoke's ship as a tie, but even that is arguable since she wakes up before he does and somehow finds her way to an escape craft and flies off. This means she had the opportunity to apprehend him or kill him, and chose to do neither, but fuck all of that! The story has to move along! Despite all of that, we now just have to buy in to the fact that he's not gonna be such a wimp in the third movie? Why would Kylo all of a sudden improve to such a degree that he would beat Rey, even after he's failed twice before? Like she isn't going to get better in the meantime? That's ridiculous. She would obviously get even more overpowered than she is now. He's let go of what was holding him down? I thought that's what killing his father was supposed to do? So, he's just going to be continuously conflicted all the time about everything? Sounds about right, given what we know about him.
- Staff proficiency and lightsaber proficiency are not the same thing. They are both skillsets within melee combat, sure. Would that give her
some ability in a combat situation? Sure. How does competency at guitar mean that you are good at bass guitar? How does handling a car well automatically mean you know how to work a motorcycle, and beat a motorcyclist in a race? She beats up random thugs and goons on Jaku? Fine, I can deal with that. Does she also engage Jedi, Sith and other force users on a weekly basis?
- You mention the Yoda lifting X-wing scene in ESB. It's important to note that Luke tries, but ultimately fails to do this. Yoda, in turn, as an established Jedi Master, has to close his eyes, concentrate, and only then is able to move it slowly. I'm saying that the number of large boulders that Rey (a rookie) lifts with ease is ludicrous and hard for me to believe, given that it took an 800 year old Jedi with centuries of experience seemingly more effort to lift a presumably heavy object.
- You also brought up the fight between Vader and Luke at Cloud City. You see repeatedly that Vader is toying with Luke, both psychologically and physically. he hurls objects at him, he taunts him. He wants to get a sense of whether he's worth his salt, before the big reveal and stating his intentions to train his son to become even stronger. All of this is window dressing though, because the main takeaway here is that
Luke had a hand chopped off and lost the damn fight. Once again, Luke is shown to struggle, and fail. It is demonstrated to us time and again as events in the plot, as opposed to shouted at us by multiple characters in dialogue as a "theme" of the film. In TLJ, this is done with the subtlety of a kick to the chest, and as if we had the intellectual capacity of an 8 year old.
- You raised the point of Luke losing to Rey because she's a better staff fighter. Again, similar to the idea of building Kylo up as a villain, the ideas on display here are jarring in a symbolic synse, as well as literary. The context here is someone who is less experienced approaching a mentor figure for the first time. Luke should not beat Yoda at using the force, Harry Potter should not beat Dumbledore in the wizarding arts, Neo should not beat Morpheus in a sparring match, and Rey Whatshername should not beat the most powerful, experienced Jedi (as reinforced by countless characters and the title crawls themselves)
at anything. This is such a clash in the minds of the audience. Why is the rookie beating the master? Why is she even there, on a quest to be trained? What could she ever have to learn from someone who she's already better than?
)