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[BlazingDarkness]

Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.

In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)

While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.



It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.

I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. With a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.

Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.

I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.

I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.

Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.

Thanks for this, everybody ought to read it.

 

[Jonnax]

lol uhhhhhhh... welcome to the past (almost) 20 years of FF, bro. You seem late to the party, but the cake is still fresh.

They were in 2D and 10 polygon 3D so it wasn't so bad =P

 

[jay]

People are holding on to their own imagined memories of an imagined game.

For some reason.

That people care is very strange. Apparently there was a lot of emotional investment in this character who was never in a game anyone played.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.

In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)

While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.



It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.

I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.

Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.

I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.

I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.

Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.

edit: bad@speeling.

Great post.

I mentioned the same thing a while back that the dearly beloved Stella vs. Noctis fight was simply a cool looking concept trailer that Nomura created, and that was when there was no proper story or design for the game. It is obvious that it was going to be removed by the time we saw the 2009 and 2011 version of the game, which also featured a redesigned Stella.

I am still not sure why people keep going back to that 2007 (or 2008) concept trailer, which also featured quotes from Shakespeare.

 

[Caronte]

Errr... I'd argue 'no track record' is better than a bad one. Everyone has to start somewhere.

It shouldn't be in a mainline FF game. Only proven writers should work there.

 

[Shadow Broker]

Can someone update the OP with all relavent details?

I see the topic say Demo 2 June 9th. Does that mean we're getting a second demo on June 9th or something else?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

It shouldn't be in a mainline FF game. Only proved writers should work there.

Well, I respectfully disagree. I'd rather see some new writers in place of the dross we got with FFXIII saga, Dissidia, and 3rd Birthday.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

It shouldn't be in a mainline FF game. Only proved writers should work there.

A lot of new writers worked on FF VII, Nojima was one of them at that time. It is nothing new.

Can someone update the OP with all relavent details?

I see the topic say Demo 2 June 9th. Does that mean we're getting a second demo on June 9th or something else?

Not a new demo per se but an update to the existing demo featuring new enemy, combat tweaks and more.

Details can be found in this thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1057231&highlight=

 

[encephalon]

It shouldn't be in a mainline FF game. Only proved writers should work there.

This conservative attitude leads to stagnation.

 

[TuXx]

Man, maybe I'm wrong in assuming that the die-hard fans in this thread saying stuff like this even gave a shit about Versus XIII before the rebranding. But if not then I'm genuinely baffled by the heel turn in here.

Like, lol, suddenly Versus XIII, the Versus XIII that we were all excited for, was "complete shit" in concept anyway now that it's been replaced? Did seeing Gladiolus' new six pack suddenly inspire great confidence in Tabata's vision for the game?

Versus was related to the mythology of Xlll. After the poor reception that Xlll received, don't you think it's possible for people to have second thoughts on the concept of Versus?

Die-hard fans aren't being hypocritical or heel turning for changing their opinion based on information that has slowly been feed to them, especially for a game that's been in development for 9 years.

 

[Dark_castle]

It shouldn't be in a mainline FF game. Only proved writers should work there.

Agreed. Let new blood work on a smaller project, build their experience and skill first. No disrespect to Itamuro, but I'm still very confused as to why FFXV is being handled by someone who only written Dissidia 012 to write a major console title like FFXV. Like, do they not care about story anymore?

Well, I respectfully disagree. I'd rather see some new writers in place of the dross we got with FFXIII saga, Dissidia, and 3rd Birthday.

Also agreed. Zero record is better than a bad one, but they should find someone who has actually written something good to helm the game's writing. Seriously, this is not random harem mobile F2P throwaway game. This is Final Fantasy XV, one of Japan's upcoming major console game that's destined to sell million of units, the face of Final Fantasy AND the company for the next few years. And you're going to leave it to a writer who wrote Dissidia 012, and THAT'S IT?

Please give me some ideas, Square Enix. Please.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

A lot of new writers worked on FF VII, Nojima was one of them at that time. It is nothing new.

Nojima was anything but new at that time. He had directed and written Bahamut Lagoon. He had written multiple games before joining Square including Glory of Herakles III and IV.

Who else helped write FF VII? Masato Kato? He wrote Chrono trigger and the Ninja Gaiden trilogy. Takashi Tokita? He wrote FF IV and the Hanjuku Hero series.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

Agreed. Let new blood work on a smaller project, build their experience and skill first. No disrespect to Itamuro, but I'm still very confused as to why FFXV is being handled by someone who only written Dissidia 012 to write a major console title like FFXV. Like, do they not care about story anymore?

They liked her script and approved of it? I don't understand what's so confusing?

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Nojima was anything but new at that time. He had directed and written Bahamut Lagoon. He had written multiple games before joining Square including Glory of Herakles III and IV.

Who else helped write FF VII? Masato Kato? He wrote Chrono trigger and the Ninja Gaiden trilogy. Takashi Tokita? He wrote FF IV and the Hanjuku Hero series.

My point was that it was the first FF for Nojima. BTW as good as he was with FF VII, he also went on to write Kingdom Hearts and FF X-2. Not to mention the X-3 novel. So he is not that perfect either

So are you saying that Itamuro is new? By your logic, he/she also worked on Dissidia FF (and possibly other projects) before writing FF XV. It is not like they hired a new guy and then immediately gave him the task of writing FF XV -_-

 

[Diablos]

At the end of the day does it truly matter? Her role is intact, her character is intact and her place as the heroin is intact. Luna is a new character that has more depth than Stella and is there to increase the stories depth.

Remember that Stella was supposed to act as a proxy for Noctis, that didn't change, Noctis and Stella going 1v1 just became Noctis v Luna going 1v1. Stella as a character was too vauge to begin with, she as a character lacked any motivation or was probably not as fleshed out as most of the other main cast.

Tabata wants to make the game into the best game that it can be, and he probably found that Stella's character was as bland as lightning and decided that they needed a heroin that fits the world of XV and its characters along with its dynamics.

The overall mood or feel the game is going for, this new character is not written by Nojima san, but uses the base, role, and image that he created to make a new heroin that has the depth that Stella doesn't. You could make the argument that renaming her was not necessary but then I would like to remind you that Luna is based off of Stella, Nojima wrote Stella, not Luna.

Luna is not the character that Nojima made, Stella is. Luna is a new heroin that is their to take her place and she has clearer motivations then Stella and is (most) probably a better and more realized character than Stella ever was.

Why change the name? because the character is different, and that character is assuming the same image and role that Stella once assumed.

Luna and Stella are different, one is a concept on a draft while the other is a fully realized character, I don't know about you bu the later peeks my interests the most.

Also the writer for Dissidia is amazing, the way he/she handles character dynamics is refreshing and greatly entertaining to say the least.

The game is coming, the Dev team want to prioritise execution and quality over anything else, lets just sit back and see what happens.

*Munch* Popcorn *Munch*

Trick

Night

Damn, did I strike a nerve?

All I mean is if Stella has now been canned, I sincerely doubt she will make an appearance in any other game. So why not continue to use her awesome character design instead of letting her reside on Vaporware Island? It's kind of ironic to call Luna a "spiritual successor" to Stella when we barely knew anything about Stella to begin with!

 

[DiipuSurotu]

So are you saying that Itamuro is new? By your logic, he/she also worked on Dissidia FF (and possibly other projects) before writing FF XV. It is not like they hired a new guy and then immediately gave him the task of writing FF XV -_-

As far as we know Saori Itamuro has only worked on Dissidia and Dissidia 012 before FF XV. Two games, one of which is a prequel of the other, isn't much. She's still new unlike the other examples back then.

 

[Kagari]

Are you certain of this? And if so, why? Do they not realize that FFXV is one of their biggest and most critical project ever? If fans can recognize talent, why couldn't the company? I rolled my eye so hard when Tabata said they assembled an all-star team to make the game shortly after saying the script is now written by the writer of Dissidia. Does SE really, really think Dissidia or Dissidia 012 have good script? Do they sometimes compare the script of FFXIII and FF Tactics: War of the Lions and see how drastically worse the former are?!

Then again, I'm talking about the company who has someone like Hiroyuki Ito and have him doing absolutely nothing for the past several years.

I am certain. The way it was said made it sound like it was within the last year or so at least.

Versus XIII had an all-star cast - a dream team, really. It's just a grand shame they never got to do much in the 9 years since it was announced.

 

[Dark_castle]

They liked her script and approved of it? I don't understand what's so confusing?

Ah okay. So, same as how they liked her script in Dissidia 012 and approved it. Or Watanabe's in FFXIII.

This fucking company.

 

[Kagari]

Ah okay. So, same as how they liked her script in Dissidia 012 and approved it. Or Watanabe's in FFXIII.

This fucking company.

Their best writers are currently working on 11/14. But they do need better talent for sure.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I am certain. The way it was said made it sound like it was within the last year or so at least.

Versus XIII had an all-star cast - a dream team, really. It's just a grand shame they never got to do much in the 9 years since it was announced.

It really did ;____;
I'm still excited for FFXV but its clear now that FF versus is not FFXV. This is not the game I've been waiting a decade for.....but it could still be an amazing jrpg.

 

[TRI Mike]

Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.

In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)

While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.



It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.

I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.

Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.

I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.

I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.

Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.

edit: bad@speeling.

Nice post man.

 

[Dark_castle]

I am certain. The way it was said made it sound like it was within the last year or so at least.

Versus XIII had an all-star cast - a dream team, really. It's just a grand shame they never got to do much in the 9 years since it was announced.

Great. That's just great.

Though to be honest, I don't think of Nojima that highly either, especially after FFVII compilation and headless Tidus story. But I'd take someone who is largely a wild card like Nojima over a newbie with bad record, as cruel as that sounds.

Edit: But hey, maybe I'm thinking a little too much. Falk made a detailed and reasonable post which gives me some hope that they're going to try their best and keep true to the original script. Even then, the original script may not have been that good in the first place, so what do I know.

 

[donutzsick]

I wonder if ff16 will have a dream team

 

[Kagari]

Great. That's just great.

Though to be honest, I don't think of Nojima that highly either, especially after FFVII compilation and headless Tidus story. But I'd take someone who is largely a wild card like Nojima over a newbie with bad record, as cruel as that sounds.

Nojima is really good at character building - a trait FF has been missing for a while.

 

[Rising_Hei]

Their best writers are currently working on 11/14. But they do need better talent for sure.

The best are on FF14? where most of the dialogue are absolute fillers? I might read 1.000 lines of dialogue and only 100 of them would be meaningful. (Main Scenario Quests)

I'm glad that's not the writers we get for FFXV then.

And what they did for last patch's scenario has been worse than any Final Fantasy written by Nomura.

 

[jimmypython]

I wonder if ff16 will have a dream team

Doesn't matter, they will redo it anyways....

Great. That's just great.

Though to be honest, I don't think of Nojima that highly either, especially after FFVII compilation and headless Tidus story. But I'd take someone who is largely a wild card like Nojima over a newbie with bad record, as cruel as that sounds.

Edit: But hey, maybe I'm thinking a little too much. Falk made a detailed and reasonable post which gives me some hope that they're going to try their best and keep true to the original script. Even then, the original script may not have been that good in the first place, so what do I know.

The best was Matsuno....Nojima is just better than the lows....

 

[Philippo]

FALK'S AWFUL KH JOKE

My man <3
Thats exactly what i think about it.

 

[dramatis]

Nojima was really good at character building - a trait FF has been missing for a while.

FINAL FANTASY X-2.5, MAN

The best are on FF14? where most of the dialogue are absolute fillers? I might read 1.000 lines of dialogue and only 100 of them would be meaningful. (Main Scenario Quests)

I'm glad that's not the writers we get for FFXV then.

And what they did for last patch's scenario has been worse than any Final Fantasy written by Nomura.

Nomura, as of now, has never written any Final Fantasy. So your metric for comparison is basically nothing...

Ironically, the main scenario quest material is what is supposed to be the most meaningful, yes? But having the fun and the bizarre in the sidequest material isn't bad. So what exactly is bad here?

 

[Kagari]

FINAL FANTASY X-2.5, MAN

Shh. We pay no attention to that.

 

[Falk]

Uh. Derp. When I said "next month" I actually meant Gamescom. Don't read too much into it.

 

[AuthenticM]

The writer of Dissidia is not writing XV.

 

[glaurung]

The writer of Dissidia is not writing XV.

No, he's just re-writing it.

 

[AuthenticM]

No, he's just re-writing it.

Several people have mentioned that it's not the case. It's a "she" and she was the "story planner" on Dissidia, not the writer.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

The writer of Dissidia is not writing XV.

According to Wikipedia she co-wrote Dissidia 012. I can't find the actual credits though.

 

[Frumix]

Dissidia was a crossover fighting that for some reason needed an extensive 20+ hours plot.
When Arakawa Naruhisa, one of Toei's best writers was asked to write a crossover for a massive superhero franchise, he phoned that one in too. What can you even do with such material?

The best are on FF14? where most of the dialogue are absolute fillers? I might read 1.000 lines of dialogue and only 100 of them would be meaningful. (Main Scenario Quests)

I'm glad that's not the writers we get for FFXV then.

And what they did for last patch's scenario has been worse than any Final Fantasy written by Nomura.

Flavor is important. Also, what? @ bolded

 

[Falk]

Dissidia was a crossover fighting that for some reason needed an extensive 20+ hours plot.
When Arakawa Naruhisa, one of Toei's best writers was asked to write a crossover for a massive superhero franchise, he phoned that one in too. What can you even do with such material?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNkRvcUn6VM

 

[Ahnez]

Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.

In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)

While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.



It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.

I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.

Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.

I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.

I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.

Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.

edit: bad@speeling.

Great post wow

Everybody should read it

 

[Arkeband]

The best are on FF14? where most of the dialogue are absolute fillers? I might read 1.000 lines of dialogue and only 100 of them would be meaningful. (Main Scenario Quests)

I'm glad that's not the writers we get for FFXV then.

And what they did for last patch's scenario has been worse than any Final Fantasy written by Nomura.

I'll agree that the story is pretty barebones for an FF, but for an MMO it's not terrible. And most of the best writing is hidden in shitty fetch quests that everyone clicks through which is S-E's fault, but it's still there.

What's noteworthy is the English localization. They really go out of their way to retain meaning and improve writing wherever possible. And for what it's worth I think the story's vastly improved since 2.0, the content updates have made the player character feel more involved in the politics of the story. 2.0's story revolved around dealing with pissed off NPC's from 1.0 whom most of us never interacted with or cared about.

I'm super critical of FFXIV but the writing isn't quite as bad as you're painting it.

 

[LiK]

Their best writers are currently working on 11/14. But they do need better talent for sure.

Get Eidos involved. Seems like they're not taking close to 10 years to make a game hehe

 

[duckroll]

According to Wikipedia she co-wrote Dissidia 012. I can't find the actual credits though.

She was a RPG Planner for both Dissidia and Dissidia 012. The role involved taking the scenario and implementing it in the game itself. The scenario script for both Dissidia games are credited to Harunori Sakemi and Daisuke Watanabe, with Toriyama as the scenario supervisor. Saori Itamuro is only credited as RPG Planner.

Having said that, her role on FFXV is Lead Scenario Designer. Not screenplay. She leads the scenario team implementing the story into the game. So there is a group of writers and no one is doing all the work alone.

 

[Frumix]

I'll agree that the story is pretty barebones for an FF, but for an MMO it's not terrible. And most of the best writing is hidden in shitty fetch quests that everyone clicks through which is S-E's fault, but it's still there.

What's noteworthy is the English localization. They really go out of their way to retain meaning and improve writing wherever possible. And for what it's worth I think the story's vastly improved since 2.0, the content updates have made the player character feel more involved in the politics of the story. 2.0's story revolved around dealing with pissed off NPC's from 1.0 whom most of us never interacted with or cared about.

I'm super critical of FFXIV but the writing isn't quite as bad as you're painting it.

Haha, let's not start that one. They sometimes go out of their way to lie to Western audiences too.

 

[AuthenticM]

The scenario script for both Dissidia games are credited to Harunori Sakemi and Daisuke Watanabe, with Toriyama as the scenario supervisor.

And are these people on the staff for XV ? Please say no. Especially Toriyama.

 

[duckroll]

And are these people on the staff for XV ? Please say no. Especially Toriyama.

I don't think anyone knows who's in the writer's room, but no, it's not likely. Toriyama and Watanabe probably worked on Mobius instead. Or are on another new unannounced project.

 

[Arkeband]

Haha, let's not start that one. They sometimes go out of their way to lie to Western audiences too.

The English localization team lied to FFXIV players? How?

 

[dramatis]

The English localization team lied to FFXIV players? How?

Frumix is a Russian who is an expert in Japanese culture and language. He thinks he can do a better job the the English localization writers, who by now are semi-co-writing the lore of FF14, because the English implementation is different from the Japanese one. Despite nobody knowing which one came first, the English or the Japanese.

Don't bother triggering him.

 

[Frumix]

The English localization team lied to FFXIV players? How?

There's been some changes to the script that they sneaked under the rug, like when they interpreted a certain character in a certain way and then decided to stick with writing them in a particular way, but then further patches come out and Japanese script conveys a different intention. Most of them can't be explained without spoilers but the most known characters that fell under sometimes subtle sometimes not very rewrites are Nael van Darnus, Ysayle and Haurchefant.

Frumix is a Russian who is an expert in Japanese culture and language. He thinks he can do a better job the the English localization writers, who by now are semi-co-writing the lore of FF14, because the English implementation is different from the Japanese one. Despite nobody knowing which one came first, the English or the Japanese.

Don't bother triggering him.

Can you not flame? Just for once? You are less informed on the topic than I am if you think that creating lore and actually writing script are the same thing. It's a team of writers and it's not an impossibility that sometimes they fail to communicate with each other (the Acheron event was an admitted instance of that). The truth is that we don't know their entire workflow but the script, as presented in the game, is open to us, and I can very well question it.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

No wonder the Shakespeare quote suddenly vanished. They completely got rid of the motif.

How would you know that? And what "motif" do you speak of? You better not say, " ... being based on Romeo + Juliet and Hamlet".

Don't know yet, Nomura said so in the past that it's a road trip game and about brotherhood which still remains.

The road trip element has nothing to do with the quote. The quote is this:

There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

The quote reflects the world and story. We no clue how this is worked into the ACTUAL plot(we really haven't seen, if anything, any gray aspects of the plot, given they don't want to spoil us). The road trip element is a theme, but one of many.

 

[Ishida]

Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.

In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)

While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.



It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.

I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.

Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.

I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.

I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.

Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.

edit: bad@speeling.

Fantastic post, Falk. I agree completely.

 

[Kagari]

Can you not flame? Just for once? You are less informed on the topic than I am if you think that creating lore and actually writing script are the same thing. It's a team of writers and it's not an impossibility that sometimes they fail to communicate with each other (the Acheron event was an admitted instance of that). The truth is that we don't know their entire workflow but the script, as presented in the game, is open to us, and I can very well question it.

The same goes for you really.

 

[sensui-tomo]

Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.

In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)

While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.



It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.

I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.

Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.

I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.

I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.

Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.

edit: bad@speeling.

The man(? if i'm wrong correct me) with reasoning.