Nah, that's pretty much it. The only other information we've gotten from luna is
her escaping from the siege of Lucis on her lonesome and looking pretty ragged
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Stella has been removed from FFXV; Itamuro writing game; Demo 2 June 9; FFXV not @ E3
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
Nah, that's pretty much it. The only other information we've gotten from luna is
BossDarkseid
Member
Stella looks more stoic and while Luna obviously has something going on it'd be ridiculous to suggest she's less capable of taking care of herself etc.
Tbh I feel that although I got excited for this game when it was Versus, I'm more than happy for Tabata and co to rework it into a single mainline title rather than drag it into a trilogy or at least two games. We'll see if Luna goes vs Noctis or not at somepoint.
It's a shame certain people are no longer involved but if it leads to me spending 10 years waiting for the game and getting to play it in a single title rather than take 15+ years from v13 announced till it's all done...
It's interesting to see the differing roles Luna will play in the story.
Tbh I feel that although I got excited for this game when it was Versus, I'm more than happy for Tabata and co to rework it into a single mainline title rather than drag it into a trilogy or at least two games. We'll see if Luna goes vs Noctis or not at somepoint.
It's a shame certain people are no longer involved but if it leads to me spending 10 years waiting for the game and getting to play it in a single title rather than take 15+ years from v13 announced till it's all done...
It's interesting to see the differing roles Luna will play in the story.
Of course there are differences between character models, that's to be expected. But trying to extrapolate personality from a few scenes is inane.
We'll never know stella beyond those old set of trailers and we know even less about Luna currently.
The leviathan scene looked.... exciting, as a boss battle. How I imagined the game would play from E3 2013's gameplay trailer was what really hyped me up at the time
DarkLordMalik
Member
This is the post which makes me go like REALLY!?People calling Nomura's work on Versus XIII "empty" is breaking my heart. You can call it concepts, unfinished product, amazing prospect, vaporware or whatever.
But empty? Holy shit. Lightning Returns XIII to Gamestop is empty. Geeeezz...
This is a hugeeee diference... massive even. The screenshots are speaking volumes in every single scene.
Stella is confidence and action in every other scene. Luna is empty and dead inside, no matter how you look at it.
Look at the screenshot.
Anxious in every scene. It's fine. I like variety. But how can you not see the big departure from Stella?
I mean Versus XIII fans are now just overthinking too much. Nitpicking each aspect just for the sake of nitpicking.
Also Luna is too anime but Stella is not? Did they even see the old Noctis who was a copycat of Sasuke? =/
DarkLordMalik
Member
More like Versus XIII fans have gone crazy.
They are just trying to create a fantasy character of Stella that never existed. They are using old scrapped scenes (DKS 3713) trailer and mixing it with the last known footage (2011 trailer) to create a character of Stella that probably never existed. Then they are using the few seconds of Luna footage to determine her character when we know almost NOTHING about her.
I will say again, there is no need to go crazy over it. Better just wait for Gamescom and be the judge.
People inherently do not like change. At it's core I doubt it's really about either girl so much as a very tangible shake of something that's been a long held belief for what's coming up on 10 years.
For all the complaints about Luna, there were just as many complaints about each revision to Stella before she was replaced. Whether it's actually good or bad is mostly irrelevant in the face of staunchly held beliefs being shaken by something.
I'm personally not particularly parsed because I never had any attachment to the game as a whole. I expected a fun game with a convoluted/terrible story. Par the course for Nomura projects.
Nobody ever actually did such a thing. It's like people are actively not reading what people have actually discussed and then start talking past each other ignoring everything that's been brought with a " We know nothing".
Why make the effort to convince people who are trying to make sense out of the scenes when you have given up to make sense out of the scenes?
As soon as anyone says "There is a difference" someone else says: "NOOOO... we know NOTHING."
I feel like this comparison discussion has run its course a long time ago. People just like to repeat the same thing over and over again expecting the same reaction over and over again without actually looking at what is being discussed.
It's almost sad, really.
Dude
from your own post
quote five messages above you. How is this not talking about some perceived character?
DarkLordMalik
Member
I was talking about the following quote.
This.
and
When all we had seen of Luna was from one single scene so far.
Hopefully it was just a joke because there is no way you can be serious with it.
I'm not saying anything new here but I haven't talked about this yet here it is I guess?
If they didn't want Versus fans to be pissed off they shouldn't have made these changes for seemingly no reason in the first place, it's that simple. Gameplay is one thing but we're talking about characters and scenes that have been analysed by its fans for almost 10 years now. Some people might not care about that kind of stuff but clearly plenty of people do, you do grow attached over that period of time as silly as it might seem. And like this you're not gonna convince me it's an improvement either, if it is they should explain so.
But mostly they really just should have said it earlier.
Yeah, I'm especially disappointed with the news because Tabata avoided saying it for so long. I was convinced they hadn't done things like this just because I felt like there was no reason for them to be quiet about it if they had Just comes across as if they have been trying to mislead fans for as long as they possible could until they HAD to say something.
I'm not saying I'm gonna boycot the game or anything but for a project that's supposedly so keen on communicating with its fans that does make me a bit wary yes.
If they didn't want Versus fans to be pissed off they shouldn't have made these changes for seemingly no reason in the first place, it's that simple. Gameplay is one thing but we're talking about characters and scenes that have been analysed by its fans for almost 10 years now. Some people might not care about that kind of stuff but clearly plenty of people do, you do grow attached over that period of time as silly as it might seem. And like this you're not gonna convince me it's an improvement either, if it is they should explain so.
But mostly they really just should have said it earlier.
Yeah, I'm especially disappointed with the news because Tabata avoided saying it for so long. I was convinced they hadn't done things like this just because I felt like there was no reason for them to be quiet about it if they had Just comes across as if they have been trying to mislead fans for as long as they possible could until they HAD to say something.
I'm not saying I'm gonna boycot the game or anything but for a project that's supposedly so keen on communicating with its fans that does make me a bit wary yes.
Harkins1721
Banned
its best to wait for gamescom.
Case:
Why did Stella have to be removed completely and then replaced with Luna rather than just retool Stella?
Point:
Tabata took control and is making changes like adding his own characters because he's trying to make this game his own thing while trying to keep with the old promises of what the game was supposed to be about. (AKA Noctis and world are a must because that's what was promised.)
Overall:
We don't know too much, but all the news we are getting are just proving that were not getting the original vision that Nomura had, which should scare fans. It's these pointless decisions and changed that ultimately destroys a vision or game. Final Fantasy 13 is proof of what can happen when the overall vision is changed.
Tabata is trying to make this his own thing, when a lot of people wanted Nomura's. At the end of the day FF15 won't be the game we wanted because Tabata thought he could had done a better job.
Why did Stella have to be removed completely and then replaced with Luna rather than just retool Stella?
Point:
Tabata took control and is making changes like adding his own characters because he's trying to make this game his own thing while trying to keep with the old promises of what the game was supposed to be about. (AKA Noctis and world are a must because that's what was promised.)
Overall:
We don't know too much, but all the news we are getting are just proving that were not getting the original vision that Nomura had, which should scare fans. It's these pointless decisions and changed that ultimately destroys a vision or game. Final Fantasy 13 is proof of what can happen when the overall vision is changed.
Tabata is trying to make this his own thing, when a lot of people wanted Nomura's. At the end of the day FF15 won't be the game we wanted because Tabata thought he could had done a better job.
Ruining FF by making characters for the most popular FF game ever?
DarkLordMalik
Member
Right. Lets just throw all the shit on Tabata and leave Nomura as the glorious god-tier director that was going to give us the best game ever.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'm fairly certain a quick Google of his work history will tell you his design experience is a bit wider than that.
Jesus guys, i actually have little to no complaints about the whole Stellagate, and most importantly i'm as hyped for the game as i was in 2013, 2011, 2006, but some of yours complaints about the game not being the same anymore, Nomura's vision destroyed etc. makes me tired to even think about game.
This and Cidney talk will ruin future FFXV threads...
BossDarkseid
Member
Doomed already
Oh well. Demo update tomorrow will be fun for those of us who didn't slavishly devour Duscae first time round.
chozen
Member
Doomed already
Oh well. Demo update tomorrow will be fun for those of us who didn't slavishly devour Duscae first time round.
I played the demo for like 40 hours. Still can't wait for more.
DarkLordMalik
Member
The next reveal at Gamescom is likley going to focus on Luna, the black-haired girl and other key story characters. Hopefully the reveal at Gamescom is enough to silence the Versus XIII fans who won't let go of the past.
When it comes to game design. I'm not for either Nomura or Tabata over the other.
I expressly enjoy the gameplay of the kingdom hearts series and 3rd BD, CC and Type-0
much more than all of their SE contemporaries.
The story quality is... not particularly great on either side. KH is a series so far up its own ass that it's veritably an oroboros and for tabata's works it's really dependent on the writer than himself per se
Though I do think that Tabata's much better at having characters emoting and story relevant FMVs
I expressly enjoy the gameplay of the kingdom hearts series and 3rd BD, CC and Type-0
much more than all of their SE contemporaries.
The story quality is... not particularly great on either side. KH is a series so far up its own ass that it's veritably an oroboros and for tabata's works it's really dependent on the writer than himself per se
Though I do think that Tabata's much better at having characters emoting and story relevant FMVs
New Stella (Luna) is growing on me.
Ever since I've started watching anime again, she's starting to look better and better.
Also, I hope there's a mod on PC someday to make Prompto not blonde because his hair clashes with the group's all-black theme.
It looks even worse when they're in the black car and his stupid hair just sticks out like like a sore thumb.
Ever since I've started watching anime again, she's starting to look better and better.
Also, I hope there's a mod on PC someday to make Prompto not blonde because his hair clashes with the group's all-black theme.
It looks even worse when they're in the black car and his stupid hair just sticks out like like a sore thumb.
I'm delighted for an excuse to dive into Duscae again. I drenched myself in that demo.
I hear you there. It can be a real killjoy.
After the demo update there won't be much to talk about until Gamescom. Just a lot of exhaustive speculation.
I hear you there. It can be a real killjoy.
After the demo update there won't be much to talk about until Gamescom. Just a lot of exhaustive speculation.
Exactly.
I think Tabata's made a smart move by making this sort of wake-up call to "Versus fans" a few months before kicking off the real marketing campaign (though he should've done it at TGS IMO). Gives us a few months to get over it and approach the new reveal as a fresh game. At least that's how I see it.
I still trust a team made up of Tabata/Naora/Shimomura/Nozue/etc. to impress us down the road.
My Bad, I somehow mixed his and Toriyamas work on the series.
Dont know how that happened to be honest.
Jup, I messed up.
encephalon
Member
I wonder if what we've seen of Luna is even a cutscene in the game, or simply there to show her character in the context of the trailer?
Do we need to pour over every single game Nojima has been involved in to judge his female characters? IF Aerith isn't anything notable character wise in FFVII, that's fine, although if Aerith isn't I'm not sure who is. "Assertive" was a word chosen in the context of this thread. Whether or not Luna or Stella are "compelling" is an entirely different matter. What Final Fantasy characters do you consider to be "compelling?"
Looks like the idea is credited to Nomura. You're right.
Do we need to pour over every single game Nojima has been involved in to judge his female characters? IF Aerith isn't anything notable character wise in FFVII, that's fine, although if Aerith isn't I'm not sure who is. "Assertive" was a word chosen in the context of this thread. Whether or not Luna or Stella are "compelling" is an entirely different matter. What Final Fantasy characters do you consider to be "compelling?"
Looks like the idea is credited to Nomura. You're right.
This is ridiculous. Nomura being gone, the other big names (Nojima, Akiyama, etc.) being mostly off the radar for years, a new and fully realized team being brought in and replacing/adding to god knows whatever "team" had been in place, and all this coming about because of a messy development cycle? That's what changes "original visions." An original vision taking the better part of a decade to execute tends to result in "pointless tweaks," as well.
Besides, it's good for Tabata and the rest of the current team to make this, in part, their own. There's a balance to be struck. On one hand, they need to fulfill the expectations that have been built up over the years. On the other, having them completely chained to the script/checklist/whatever Nomura's crew left behind would be a recipe for mediocrity. You don't bring on a new team, and have them dedicate all this work and time just to take somebody else's work across the finish line, particularly when they started so far away from it. You're going to see much of Versus XIII in XV, but Tabata nor anyone else can fake Nomura's fingerprints. You're going to see some of the new team's point of view, as well.
Well I mean, if it really does make you tired to think about it then why not just avoid threads like these. I mean, I assumed this thread was designed to discuss the changes being made to the game and people are just voicing their opinion. There were literally two other threads that were made on the same day as that one, so why not visit that instead?
EDIT:
Doomed already
Oh well. Demo update tomorrow will be fun for those of us who didn't slavishly devour Duscae first time round.
whoa, I thought the demo comes out the day after tomorrow? Must of been a time zone thing, that got me pretty excited for a second hahah. I'm really looking forward to seeing how adding animation cancel and a dodge that doesn't use MP changes the dynamics of the battle system
Yeah that definitely sounds like a pretty smart (and strategic) move by Tabata, now that you mention it. I really hope they learn how to adapt Nomura's trailer style because I think he does a really good job hyping up his video games.
I'm kinda late to this, but I have to throw in my 2 cents because it seems like no one is addressing another issue with this character change. There are many of you who believe that this change is completely inconsequential or just plain weird. But there's a whole 'nother dynamic to this that deserves to be addressed. The way we've been going at it is comparing these two characters and our perceived interpretation of their personalities. I think that's skindeep and doesn't really address that heart of the matter. We're on the verge of something very important, yet no one has brought up the actual issue at hand. If I didn't know any better, I would say the average poster in this thread is purposefully tiptoeing around a taboo that seems to hover around FFXV threads like a ghost.
And to be completely honest, I'm thoroughly surprised. After this news, I was sure that it would come up, that we'd finally be able to talk about this. And then, I read this thread, and can only feel dissapointed in the level of discourse. Square Enix has given us an opportunity to tackle the issue in a way fans of this development trouble game haven't since it was first announced. And we're squandering it. We're not living up to the standards that we hold dear. Especially with the revelations from the demo. That should've been the tipping point. The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe, after all this time, there are fans who have simply given up. We keep telling ourselves that things will get better. We keep telling ourselves that Legend of Korra was any good after the first season. It was okay. It could have been a lot better. I was dissapointed when they got rid of Amon. What was the point of building him up so much.
And to be completely honest, I'm thoroughly surprised. After this news, I was sure that it would come up, that we'd finally be able to talk about this. And then, I read this thread, and can only feel dissapointed in the level of discourse. Square Enix has given us an opportunity to tackle the issue in a way fans of this development trouble game haven't since it was first announced. And we're squandering it. We're not living up to the standards that we hold dear. Especially with the revelations from the demo. That should've been the tipping point. The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe, after all this time, there are fans who have simply given up. We keep telling ourselves that things will get better. We keep telling ourselves that Legend of Korra was any good after the first season. It was okay. It could have been a lot better. I was dissapointed when they got rid of Amon. What was the point of building him up so much.
...so what's the actual issue at hand?
Is it that Legend of Korra disappointed some people? Lol.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but I'm guessing you mean that our feedback can help "fix" this situation? I'm not too sure about that, since it kind of seemed like Tabata and the marketing director seemingly shrugged off the Cindy issue that was Europe's #1 complain about the game
qualitydisc
Member
I'm actually relieved to see that Nomura was credited with "original concept" during the ATR rundown of the staff. I hope it stays that way in the final product. I was worried that they might try to scrub his name from the project. Square Enix has a history of making somebody an unperson whenever they are no longer officially part of a project.
Like how they removed Sakaguchi's name from the GBA ports of FF IV through VI just a couple years after he left the company
And how Uematsu's name appears NOWHERE in the liner notes for the Dissidia OST, even though he was the original composer for about half the songs. They're just "Copyright Square Enix."
These things bother me because they seem kinda Orwellian. In the same way that the Metal Gear fans were ticked off when Konami removed his name from their product images.
Like how they removed Sakaguchi's name from the GBA ports of FF IV through VI just a couple years after he left the company
And how Uematsu's name appears NOWHERE in the liner notes for the Dissidia OST, even though he was the original composer for about half the songs. They're just "Copyright Square Enix."
These things bother me because they seem kinda Orwellian. In the same way that the Metal Gear fans were ticked off when Konami removed his name from their product images.
That's a lot of post to actually not say anything at all.
Also what's LoK have to do with this?
That headline engineering from the previous thread =! top complain. It was a common complain, yes, that doesn't give it more weight than the other complaints.
Sorry, that one left an impression on me when I watched the ATR, so I must've automatically assumed it was the top complaint from Europe
Even assuming it was the top complaint. Would you really rather they prioritize effort into changing Cidney's asinine clothing options over other issues?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Looks like Luneth from FFIII DS.
I'm not personally complaining about it, I'm just telling udivision that even if we used the feedback surveys, it's unlikely that Tabata would change anything related to Stella/Luna since they haven't really addressed the Cindy issue
EDIT: Since this is the perfect opportunity, I'd like to say that I actually like her design. The only issue I have with how they approached Cindy was really the camera angles they were using when she was in the cutscenes. However, I hardly even minded that issue since it didn't disturb me enough that I would write a post about it in any of the FFXV threads.
BossDarkseid
Member
Well it comes out Tuesday, just got me it's just after 9 Monday morning
This thread is getting ridiculous. I too was dissappointed that Stella was cut, but we're letting it get the best of us. Thread is now devolved into calling Tabata and his team perverts, while glorifying very short trailers, that over the course of five years, repeated similar scenes over and over again.
Nomura had his chance to make Versus, and he failed. Tabata is given the chance to make the best of the situation, make a complete Final Fantasy out of it in reasonable time frame, and is given the satan role because of it. Imagine being Tabata, having to take over a dysfunctional production with no clear vision or goal in sight. Naturally changes would have been made. Tabata isn't Nomura. Which is why SE put him there in the first place. Do we want an actual Final Fantasy out of this or a continued trend of vague trailers with Shakespeare quotes thrown in the middle of it with little sense of coherence?
Am I dissappointed in certain aspects of FFXV? Of course I am. Do I believe that what Nomura was doing was better for the game than what Tabata is doing? I don't. Tabata and his team have done so much progress for the game in just two years. We were given an actual playable demo which people liked. The trailers show promise and progress. From having media black-outs that could last years, we're now given daily updates on the game's development. That, in itself is a luxury for anyone who has been excited for the game since its reveal almost a decade ago.
In hindsight, perhaps the optimal course would've been having Nomura and Tabata being co-directors from the start where one serves as a visionary and the other as a realist.
Nomura had his chance to make Versus, and he failed. Tabata is given the chance to make the best of the situation, make a complete Final Fantasy out of it in reasonable time frame, and is given the satan role because of it. Imagine being Tabata, having to take over a dysfunctional production with no clear vision or goal in sight. Naturally changes would have been made. Tabata isn't Nomura. Which is why SE put him there in the first place. Do we want an actual Final Fantasy out of this or a continued trend of vague trailers with Shakespeare quotes thrown in the middle of it with little sense of coherence?
Am I dissappointed in certain aspects of FFXV? Of course I am. Do I believe that what Nomura was doing was better for the game than what Tabata is doing? I don't. Tabata and his team have done so much progress for the game in just two years. We were given an actual playable demo which people liked. The trailers show promise and progress. From having media black-outs that could last years, we're now given daily updates on the game's development. That, in itself is a luxury for anyone who has been excited for the game since its reveal almost a decade ago.
In hindsight, perhaps the optimal course would've been having Nomura and Tabata being co-directors from the start where one serves as a visionary and the other as a realist.
Whenever you see this you can guess it's a joke post
I don't think we know the full reason(s) on why Nomura was kicked out, but I'm pretty sure the official statement was so that he could devote his full time with KH3. Given all that's been said about him and his work on V13, I definitely don't blame him entirely. I mean, what if say, FF14 was successful and SE didn't have to shit out two FF13 sequels? V13 would've had to have come out with out a choice, no? Whatever his vision was for the game at the time, that's what the team would've been stuck with completing. But no, they decided to switch the game to next gen hardware in order to rival their competition, basically starting from scratch again and running into all new sorts of development problems I bet.
I'm pretty sure there's just a lot of bad luck involved when it comes to Nomura and V13.