Support NeoGAF

[koam]

anyone ever lost money & never recouped?

When I first started, I did an impulse buy on Vonage because news came out that might win the court case against verizon. Unfortunetely, I didn't do my ressearch on this one and just jumped in. I was never in the green, I bought 400 shares at $4.21 and I sold them off 2 months later at $2.20.

I learned three things:
1) Never buy on impulse.
2) Never buy a stock on a day where's already risen
3) Don't wait for a stock to bounce back, sell it at a loss and buy something better

Nice increase on RIM today. Push me to third place on the investment game we're playing on GAF from last

NTDOY at record high again.

 

[lil smoke]

"Too late to make a move based on the news."

 

[_Rafa_]

quoting myself:

does that means that RIM.TO will go high tomorrow?

+ 7-8 %

...

 

[koam]

quoting myself:


+ 7-8 %

...

It opened higher, you would have had to invest in the off-hours to make the profit

 

[_Rafa_]

questrade.com offers off hours trading

 

[koam]

questrade.com offers off hours trading

I advise against off-hours trading.

You're placeing blind trades, you can't see the bid/ask price. Also, OH trades are more expensive.

 

[Ether_Snake]

God damnit I should have bought THQI yesterday instead of IMMR.

IMMR down 1%, THQI up 4.46%

:|

EDIT: And I was ready to buy today. I guess I'll wait for another bad news before Nov. 1st :|

EDIT2: It's still a good buy actually. But I'm ready to miss the train completely if it means not catching it on the next dip.

 

[koam]

You did the right choice with Immersion. NEVER judge a stock after 1 day. I'll show you why THQ is a bad choice and IMMR is not.

Immersion this past year:

Immersion vs THQ this past year:

THQ this past year:

To you, it may seem like investing in THQ might be a smart choise but the stock is riding on a downhill slump right now. Investor's have bought the stock much higher and they're losing money and faith. They're less likely to rebuy. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if people are shorting THQ hoping it goes down.

Immersion on the other hand is going up. They also got a lot of products in the pipeline including Sony's Dual Shock 3 licensing fees. They have the most potential.

Thq might do well during the holidays, but Immersion is the better pick and will generate you a lot more profit.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yeah the fact is usually I don't really look at my stocks through the day, only when I come back from work, but I'm on a day off so I guess I was more panicky because of this

Immersion is really a long term investment, I'm not worried about it unless I see that management turns out to be pretty bad. They have a lot of potential as you say.

But I do think THQ is going to go back in the low 30s at least. They have been going down this year but I feel that THQ's weakness is the transition phase. They are not publishers of major titles so until the "next-gen" consoles are in place they couldn't make much sales. Now that we are exiting the transition phase I think they will do well, and their externaldevelopement group/outsourcing was formed in March 06, so logically development costs would be reduced for games that have been in development for a year and will be released in the near future. I have a lot of faith in them. I'm gonna wait for another dip tho.

 

[Miroku]

Is there anywhere on the net that we can get realtime stock quotes for free?

 

[koam]

Is there anywhere on the net that we can get realtime stock quotes for free?

Your broker should provide you with real-time for free.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Alright IMMR is up. I'm gonna calmdown now and let sit by without worrying

I'll check the GAF team thing in the other thread. I might use it to check up on those BRIC markets.

 

[koam]

*polishes his jacket

Edit:

quoting myself:


+ 10%

...

*fixed* rim is amazing.

 

[koam]

I'm wondering if I should buy STV. They're a chinese digital cable company. Today is their first day on the market. Their IPO was at $16 but they opened at $35. They dropped since and I wonder if they'll ride the chinese hype train and go up to $50 by next week.

 

[Ether_Snake]

RIMM isn't going anywhere any time soon. They are going to continue to grow and the management seems sound as far as I can tell. The thing that I'm not impressed by so far is that they seem to be sticking entirely to wireless communications, am I wrong? They should definitly be heading into the production of wireless devices for new homes.

For example, if you want to install a ceiling fan in your bedroom you wouldn't need to take a wall down to get the wires through; you just attach it to the ceiling and it communicates wirelessly to a controller attached to the wall. This is different from manually controlled devices because you get more control without having to reach out for it. The only problem would be that it would have to use batteries, but that's a detail in my book; solutions can always be found.

Wireless lamps, ovens, fridges, etc. I guess we're just not there yet. But that's the kind of business I'd be more willing to invest into (I just don,t have the cash for RIMM), and I don't want to take a loan.

If there is any company involved in the production of wireless devices for the homes let me know. Bluetooth Special Interest Group isn't publicly traded, but if they were I'd buy right away.

I'm wondering if I should buy STV. They're a chinese digital cable company. Today is their first day on the market. Their IPO was at $16 but they opened at $35. They dropped since and I wonder if they'll ride the chinese hype train and go up to $50 by next week.

Well, they're Chinese, and that's probably the only thing the average investor looks at.

NEW YORK (AP) - China Digital TV Holding Co. is luring investors to its initial public offering by promising to capitalize on the potentially explosive growth of digital television in China.

"There's a hunger for Chinese companies that are leaders in their markets," said IPODesktop.com President Francis Gaskins. "The lake is rising and the boat is rising with it."

China currently has the largest television viewing market in the world with TVs in 362 million households, according to data supplied by Analysys International. At the end of 2006, 139 million households subscribed to cable television, the research company said.

I think it's more interesting than a lot of other "hot" Chinese stocks actually.

EDIT: But yeah be careful when you have no fiscal reports to go by It's an immature market to go by anyway, it hasn't made its proofs as far as accounting practices go. I wouldn't put a dime in it for a while. No hurting in waiting, unless you want to gamble.

 

[koam]

Just got a text message from my broker friend today. The message was "Dress nice, i'm taking you out to dinner". Guess she's happy with her shares in rim

Also, Rim can't develop wireless tech like that, it's not their field. They license in most of their tech and they got sued multiple times due to patent infridgement so I doubt they'd venture that way. They need to acquire new companies.

 

[_Rafa_]

I advise against off-hours trading.

You're placeing blind trades, you can't see the bid/ask price. Also, OH trades are more expensive.

bah...just put a limit buy price....

too bad, if my account was completed , i would have bought 10 RIM shares. Now its too late.

but i'm happy that i saw this happening before, its a sign that i understand the market

 

[koam]

bah...just put a limit buy price....

too bad, if my account was completed , i would have bought 10 RIM shares. Now its too late.

but i'm happy that i saw this happening before, its a sign that i understand the market

You can't trade offhours using a website, you need to call a broker. None of the canadian banks let you do it, i dunno about the one you're using though, maybe they're different but i'd be surprised. It's a whole different procedure and costs a lot more (like $100+)

 

[Fuzzery]

Soooo, guess i'll dabble in stv lol

 

[_Rafa_]

yeah you're right. But you still can put a limit price for the next day hoping someone will send it at a relatively low price.

 

[koam]

yeah you're right. But you still can put a limit price for the next day hoping someone will send it at a relatively low price.

Not online. Let's say a stock is at $11 before 4pm and you place a limit order at $10 and let the order last a week. Then during the off hours, the stock drops down to $10 and the next morning, pre-market it goes up to $11, your order won't fill.

I've tried it

 

[_Rafa_]

but if you expect it to go up 11 and you put the limit price at 11, maybe it will fill?

 

[koam]

but if the limit price is 12-13, maybe it will fill?

No, limit prices that are placed online only work while the market is open. In order to buy a stock off hours, you need to speak to a broker. I'm 80% sure that you can't even place a limit order and you need to buy at market price when dealing off hours. Not sure how selling works but i guess you can place a price and pray.

Anyway, why would you want to trade offhours? They're expensive and have almost no benefit unless you really want to catch a stock that's on the rise.

 

[sakuragi]

Lets say someone from the UAE (me) wants to buy international stocks (AMZN, SNE, NTDOY ect..) how do I go about doing this?

 

[koam]

Lets say someone from the UAE (me) wants to buy international stocks (AMZN, SNE, NTDOY ect..) how do I go about doing this?

Talk to a broker from the UAE and see what they offer. You should be able to buy any stock that you wish.

 

[_Rafa_]

No, limit prices that are placed online only work while the market is open. In order to buy a stock off hours, you need to speak to a broker. I'm 80% sure that you can't even place a limit order and you need to buy at market price when dealing off hours. Not sure how selling works but i guess you can place a price and pray.

Anyway, why would you want to trade offhours? They're expensive and have almost no benefit unless you really want to catch a stock that's on the rise.

oh, i thought i could place a limit price online during off hours for the opening next day.

 

[sakuragi]

Talk to a broker from the UAE and see what they offer. You should be able to buy any stock that you wish.

Sure, which stock do you recommend I should put my precious money in?

 

[mrWalrus]

I hope Mr. Walrus got rid of his $80 puts on RIMM a long time ago.

:lol :lol :lol

No, I got owned. I was meaning to come tell you guys but I didn't want to depress anybody. I still stand by my thinking that alls not right in the world of American finance but you've gotta trade the tape they give you.

I've been focusing the majority of my efforts in the Forex market lately. The Fed decision to lower rates has me a little snake bitten on the American markets.

 

[koam]

oh, i thought i could place a limit price online during off hours for the opening next day.

Let me explain it a bit better:

The stock market opens at 9:30am and closes at 4:00pm EST. During this time, you can buy/sell stocks, set limit orders or whatever.

Once the market closes at 4:00pm you're in Off hours. Off hours are from 4:00pm until 5:30pm (after-market) and then again from 9am until 9:30am (pre-market).

In order to place a trade during the Off Hour window, you need to call a broker. They will buy you a share at whatever the market price is at.

A limit order is when you want to buy a certain stock at a certain price. Let's say you want to buy XYZ at $10. You can open a limit order at ANY TIME 24/7/365 for $10 for XYZ. The catch is that this order can only be fillied during market hours (9:30am to 4:00pm). If the price reaches $10 during off hours (4:00pm to 5:30pm, 9:00am to 9:30am) it will not get filled.

This also means that if XYZ is at $9 during market hours, and reaches $13 during off hours, and opens at $13.. you'll have a nasty surprise in the morning because you just filled in at $13. On the bright side, you can place a max on a limit order. So for example, you can set it to buy XYZ at $10 up to a max of $11. So if it opens in the morning over $11 it won't fill.

No, I got owned. I was meaning to come tell you guys but I didn't want to depress anybody. I still stand by my thinking that alls not right in the world of American finance but you've gotta traded the tape they give you.

I hope this means you'll stop shorting companies Out of curiousity, how much did you buy it at?

Edit: I added the market hours into the main post.

 

[mrWalrus]

I hope this means you'll stop shorting companies Out of curiousity, how much did you buy it at?

No, why would I do that? Is there something wrong with shorting companies?

Have you seen the value of the dollar? The Fed screwed us all.. they talked the talk about not bailing out the speculators in housing and hedge funds and did it any way. In the process screwing Main St. Joe.

Spoiler

I'd rather not say how much I'm down in the markets over the last month or so. I'd be willing to wager it's several times the size of your trading account. However, If you want to talk about my recent success in Forex I'd be glad to oblige.

 

[_Rafa_]

Let me explain it a bit better:

The stock market opens at 9:30am and closes at 4:00pm EST. During this time, you can buy/sell stocks, set limit orders or whatever.

Once the market closes at 4:00pm you're in Off hours. Off hours are from 4:00pm until 5:30pm (after-market) and then again from 9am until 9:30am (pre-market).

In order to place a trade during the Off Hour window, you need to call a broker. They will buy you a share at whatever the market price is at.

A limit order is when you want to buy a certain stock at a certain price. Let's say you want to buy XYZ at $10. You can open a limit order at ANY TIME 24/7/365 for $10 for XYZ. The catch is that this order can only be fillied during market hours (9:30am to 4:00pm). If the price reaches $10 during off hours (4:00pm to 5:30pm, 9:00am to 9:30am) it will not get filled.

This also means that if XYZ is at $9 during market hours, and reaches $13 during off hours, and opens at $13.. you'll have a nasty surprise in the morning because you just filled in at $13. On the bright side, you can place a max on a limit order. So for example, you can set it to buy XYZ at $10 up to a max of $11. So if it opens in the morning over $11 it won't fill.

its confusing. I thought a limit on a buy was the maximum price that you want to buy the stock. So i thought that if i put my limit to 11 and it opens at 13, it just wont be filled....

you say im wrong?

you say that because it has pass 11 during off hours, my limit price will automaticly buy at market at the opening cause the buy was "declanched" during off hours but could not be filled during this time?

 

[Ether_Snake]

its confusing. I thought a limit on a buy was the maximum price that you want to buy the stock. So i thought that if i put my limit to 11 and it opens at 13, it just wont be filled....

you say im wrong?

No he said you're right. I think that you think off-hours markets mean anytime between closing and opening.

BTW, here are today's results for me:

IMMR: +1.42% • 17.251
ATVI: -0.44% • 22.64
TTWO: +1.92% • 18.03

Missed opportunity I spotted the night before and was going to buy until I said "nah, already made a purchase today, calm down":

THQI: +4.85% • 27.25

EDIT: BTW I'm totally getting ripped off by RBC. $30 per trade is an insult. If I want to hit lower I HAVE to do 30+ trades per Q. Bullshit.

 

[koam]

its confusing. I thought a limit on a buy was the maximum price that you want to buy the stock. So i thought that if i put my limit to 11 and it opens at 13, it just wont be filled....

you say im wrong?

you say that because it has pass 11 during off hours, my limit price will automaticly buy at market at the opening cause the buy was "declanched" during off hours but could not be filled during this time?

I'm not sure i understand what you're trying to do? Can you give me an example and if you want to do this during off hours or not?

You don't set a "BUY" limit order above market price. The only time you'd do that is if you don't want to monitor a stock manually and you want to buy it in the event it goes up. So let's say the stock is at $10 and you want to buy it if jumps up. You set your BUY limit at $11 and the stop at $11.30. Basically, what that means is once the stock reaches $11, you will try to BUY x amount of shares, but if it reaches $11.30 (goes up way too fast) and your order didn't get filled, it won't BUY any (unless there were some fills that happened).

As for a "SELL" limit, it's the exact opposite. You use it to protect your losses. Let's say you have 1000 shares that you bought at $10. You set a "SELL" limit order at $9 and a stop at $8.70. Basically, let's say some huge tragedy happens and your stock drops fast when you're not monitoring it, if it drops to $9, a SELL order will go in. Lets say you don't manage to get a SELL in on time and it continues to drop under $8.70, it will deactivate the sell. The only reason you'd want to deactivate it is if your losses are too big. It's rare people place a stop on a Sell limit order.

Finally, the most popular use of a limit order is during day trading. Let's say a stock is at $10.20 and you want to buy it at $10.00 instead of $10.20. You open a BUY at $10.00 and wait. If the stock drops down to $10 you'll buy it. Same thing if you want to sell above market price.

EDIT: BTW I'm totally getting ripped off by RBC. $30 per trade is an insult. If I want to hit lower I HAVE to do 30+ trades per Q. Bullshit.

RBC in the states?

 

[_Rafa_]

Forget off-hours. Yesterday, RIM.TO was at 100$. They annouced good results at maybe 5PM. So lets say i think that the stock will go up to 110$ tomorrow. At 7pm, I put a limit price at 101$ hoping it will get filled at the opening. If it opens at 105$, it will not get filled. But if it opens at 101$ (so my order is executed) and go up to 110$ during the day, i would have made 9$ per share.

Am I correct?

 

[koam]

Forget off-hours. Yesterday, RIM.TO was at 100$. They annouced good results at maybe 5PM. So lets say i think that the stock will go up to 110$ tomorrow. At 7pm, I put a limit price at 101$ hoping it will get filled at the opening. If it opens at 105$, it will not get filled. But if it opens at 101$ (so my order is executed) and go up to 110$ during the day, i would have made 9$ per share.

Am I correct?

Yes, you're absolutely right.

Just one thing to keep in mind. When a company announces positive/negative earnings, the jump is already made when the stock opens.

For example, Rim.to closed at 100.30 yesterday but opened at $105.61. If you absolutely wanted to buy them this morning when the markets opened, you would simply place a BUY at market price. You would have gotten them $105.61 (or close to it).

I don't like doing that personally, i'd rather know what i'm buying it.

Another thing you could have done is set a limit order at $100 with a stop at $105. So let's they opened at $103, you would buy them. If they opened at $99 or $106, you wouldn't.

 

[Ether_Snake]

RBC in the states?

RBC in Canada, I'm in Montreal.

 

[koam]

RBC in Canada, I'm in Montreal.

Represent. My friend works at RBC DI downtown. I work 3 blocks away from her office.

Get an account with CIBC, 13 trades for $102 if you open it now (might be 12 for $96 now). $7 for any trades after that.

I think Rafa is also in montreal cause he's french :lol

 

[_Rafa_]

k thanks koam i understand now the utility of the "stop price".

but you said : "Another thing you could have done is set a limit order at $100 with a stop at $105. So let's they opened at $103, you would buy them. If they opened at $99 or $106, you wouldn't."

Are you sure of that? Why wouldn't it be executed if its below my limit price?

between. im from quebec city. In quebec city, we only speak french at the opposite of montreal.

 

[Javaman]

Sweet. I'm up 2k over 7 days.
It may not be as lucrative as investing in individual funds, but the turtle just keeps on gaining.

 

[Tarazet]

Sweet. I'm up 2k over 7 days.
It may not be as lucrative as investing in individual funds, but the turtle just keeps on gaining.

Same for me, though my holdings are a fraction the size of yours. JABAX has gained 5% since I bought it on August 10 and 14, plus it has paid out a ~1% dividend.

 

[Javaman]

Same for me, though my holdings are a fraction the size of yours. JABAX has gained 5% since I bought it on August 10 and 14, plus it has paid out a ~1% dividend.

I just regret not socking away more when I was younger and still living with my folks. Between not putting away the max and taking out several 401k loans I'm at much lower then I could have been. After moving out I put it on 6% autopilot and kind of forgot about it for a couple years. Imagine if someone could put the max $15,000 for several years and then stop investing. They would have a great retirement and hardly have to contribute anything else.

 

[elostyle]

Lets say someone from the UAE (me) wants to buy international stocks (AMZN, SNE, NTDOY ect..) how do I go about doing this?

Check if they are traded at your national stock markets. Most of these are traded in Frankfurt for example, even Nintendo and not just ADRs. You might get lucky.

 

[Tarazet]

I just regret not socking away more when I was younger and still living with my folks. Between not putting away the max and taking out several 401k loans I'm at much lower then I could have been. After moving out I put it on 6% autopilot and kind of forgot about it for a couple years. Imagine if someone could put the max $15,000 for several years and then stop investing. They would have a great retirement and hardly have to contribute anything else.

I don't even have a 401k (not available to me as a temp), and I'm starting from scratch in terms of funding. But I'm only 24, have a positive net worth (i.e. more assets than debt), and I've got my head in the right place.

One thing I'd like to do is invest in a Chinese mutual fund rather than the conservative, giant-cap-focused American fund I'm in now. Preferably one that's focused on the booming service industry in that area rather than tech.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Can anyone explain why 401K (RRSP in Canada) are still attractive?

This stuff has existed for only a very short period of time, and a very small number of people (when you consider everyone who has contributed to it until now and continues to contribute to it) have actually retired over this short period of time to actually live decently thanks to their 401k investments. Basically, what makes it such a sure investment when we consider how its worth can only be valued over so many decades, and how it has been in existence since only recently? Just 6 decades ago we were facing a world war, right after a major market crash. What would make me think that in three decades from now everything will be fine and dandy and I'll be able to retire without the need for a part time job? Everything is getting costlier too.

Aren't we better off investing our money in a "system" that makes its proofs on a shorter term?

 

[_Rafa_]

I just looked at Ubisoft charts and i think its the perfect moment to buy it. You should watch it guys

 

[Ether_Snake]

I just looked at Ubisoft charts and i think its the perfect moment to buy it. You should watch it guys

Man, Ubisoft has been an excellent buy since late 2004. Back then I was about to buy some stock (which was worth around 17 euros back then, pre-split). I didn't know anything about the market so I didn't bother. But two weeks later EA bought 20% of the shares and the stock rose over the next few months to something like the high 50s, if not low 60s. I think last december they had a split which sent the stock to 25 euros, and I told my buddies I'd wait for it to drop to the low 20s and buy because I felt it could reach the mid 40s in a year. Turns out it took around 8 months

But I never bought... because I am an idiot.

EDIT: Anyway they are pretty high right now but the fact is they got a great lineup and a future split wouldn't be impossible IMO. You missed a dip recently tho

This is when I was planning to buy:

 

[Javaman]

Can anyone explain why 401K (RRSP in Canada) are still attractive?

This stuff has existed for only a very short period of time, and a very small number of people (when you consider everyone who has contributed to it until now and continues to contribute to it) have actually retired over this short period of time to actually live decently thanks to their 401k investments. Basically, what makes it such a sure investment when we consider how its worth can only be valued over so many decades, and how it has been in existence since only recently? Just 6 decades ago we were facing a world war, right after a major market crash. What would make me think that in three decades from now everything will be fine and dandy and I'll be able to retire without the need for a part time job? Everything is getting costlier too.

Aren't we better off investing our money in a "system" that makes its proofs on a shorter term?

Every rolling 10 year period since the start of the NYSE has gained money. 97% of every 5 year period has as well. It's a safe bet that as long as you invest in decent mutual funds for a length of time you will gain money. (based on history) Obviously things could explode tomarrow for all we know, but if you want to make money you have to take some level of risk. 401ks have only been around a short while, but they generally invest in bonds or mutual funds and that concept has been around for ages. The closest you can get to an idea of future growth/risk is to look at the previous years' growth for the fund. If it has been around for 20+ years and averaged over 15% it's probably a pretty stable bet. I would prefer to put money into an IRA since there's a lot more flexibility in which funds to invest in, but as it is the money is locked into the 401k until I change jobs or the company merges with another.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Thanks for the info. I'll check how I can keep track of it better, I've been investing in it through my employer and haven't been keeping an eye on it.

Btw Koam or anyone else who knows; if I want to buy THQI next Monday, should I keep track of the before-hours activity and place an order based on THAT value of the share, as it will reflect the opening price moreso than the current closing price? I want to catch it as soon as possible Monday morning without paying more than it is currently trading at. It's getting expensive for me, and even tho I know it will certainly rise in at least the mid 30s I don't want to buy after another raise.

Thanks

 

[Ether_Snake]

Turns out I'm gonna wait till they announce their next fiscal results (I think in November). They are certainly not going to have much to be proud of from games like Stuntman and Juiced 2, and they have a lot of good titles coming out in the months ahead so I'm betting more on the holiday sales. Chances are investors will continue to sell due to lack of trust/understanding of the market after the low performance, but I think THQ will be well positioned after the holidays to go up.

 

[koam]

Thanks for the info. I'll check how I can keep track of it better, I've been investing in it through my employer and haven't been keeping an eye on it.

Btw Koam or anyone else who knows; if I want to buy THQI next Monday, should I keep track of the before-hours activity and place an order based on THAT value of the share, as it will reflect the opening price moreso than the current closing price? I want to catch it as soon as possible Monday morning without paying more than it is currently trading at. It's getting expensive for me, and even tho I know it will certainly rise in at least the mid 30s I don't want to buy after another raise.

Thanks

The pre-market is always the one you should focus on. As soon as the markets open, it uses the last sale/bid/ask as the current value. Sorry for not answering the market opened today but at least you'll know next time.

Canadian markets are closed today due to thanksgiving and I don't feel like exchanging my money today to buy american stocks. Guess i'll wait till tomorrow. Leaving to go to a dinner soon.