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[jhmtehgamr20xx]

The DOA costumes on psn are like soft porn, it sets womens rights back about 40 years. The DLC sale section on the euro psn store is damning, pack after pack of bikinis.

And absolutely no one is forcing you to view or buy that content.

Don't like it? Go somewhere else, instead of trying to take away things other people enjoy.

Not every fighter can exploit the free 2 play model, much the same as MMO's trying and many eventually failing to attract an audience going down that road.

If we're talking specifically about SFV (and I feel like we are mostly) , it was an attempt by capcom to get their feet wet with the free 2 play thing. BUT they dropped the ball from the start because while they were honest and upfront about SFV being a service going forward with high aspirations of going big with the pro gaming circuit they failed in one key area - the game was released about 6 months before it was actually ready AND they charged full price for it while also begging people to spend another 33% of that cover price to more easily obtain the content they were giving away for "free".

They wanted the best of both worlds and currently have little to show for it but it's also only been about 2 months and this is a situation that can be fixed if capcom has the patience to let it work.

The free version of DOA5 came out only about a year after it's initial release and the core version of the title did launch at full price but it also had plenty of content included from day 1. The re-branded DOA5 ultimate showed up a year later with some new characters and backgrounds for a 30% discount while the free to play title also launched where anyone could try the game out for free with a much more limited set of options available. They turned a standard fighting game release into a free 2 play title with a shop only after 12 months of sales.

Capcom is trying to do all of that all at once and as we can see by the gimped store , lack of content in game along with delayed features and such , it's an uphill climb.

BUT , to get down to the OPs comment/ question - I do feel something like SFV will benefit long term once it goes to a free 2 play model. I feel the version available on disc right now isn't the version to do it. In much the same way that Super SF4 turned SF4 into it's own fantastic thing , I feel SFV needs a big update to really get into the proper setup. A re-launch next spring at a 40$ price tag that includes the base game, all of 2016's non cosmetic DLC (which means all 6 characters) as well as perhaps Sakura and Akuma thrown in to please the fans AND having the character story mode re-tooled into a proper arcade ladder mode while also turning the combo challenge into a full on proper interactive tutorial instead of simply a ton of videos. Make it into the game people expected this years version to be. At the same time, throw up a free SFV 2017 edition trial/F2P version. Download the client and SFV just has Ryu and perhaps a rotating character that changes every month. This free version includes the full new tutorial , training mode, offline VS play and online ranked/casual matches as well as lobby support(maybe this version comes with only training stage and hong kong too). Offer the big movie style story mode by itself for a few bucks, offer the arcade ladder/survival mode for a few bucks, and offer additional characters, costumes, stages, colors, titles for a few bucks. Or, if you don't want to spend money, you can play the shit out of the 2 free characters for hours a day and you can spend fight money on anything non-cosmetic. Currently the 50 fight money you get for a win isn't much , I feel that should be a starting point but winning frequently should increase the fight money earned to a point. Adding in Killer instinct style challenges for bonus fight money would also work while maybe even throwing in double XP/fight money weekends could also be great.

That's a great endpoint I feel for SFV but , Capcom needs to rebuild what's there right now so that the above can happen. So , next february/ March , I've little doubt we will see a free version pop up and then the userbase will start to increase and who knows - maybe it will catch up to DOA5 one day. At the very least a F2P version will give SFV a more consistent playerbase , more people will have it so more will play it which hopefully means less wait times for all involved online.

But with all that said, I don't think a smaller game like Guilty Gear or Blazblue can get away with this sort of model. Even if it were free I don't think the game is well known enough that too many more people would play it. In order for free 2 play to work you can't just have 100,000 people check it out, you need 500,000 + so that you've got plenty of people buying stuff through the games store.

Likewise, on the other end of the spectrum you've got something like MKX , selling millions of copies last year and then this year bringing out a 30$ upgrade pack that likely sold another million units. In all likelyhood another 30$ pack may show up next year too, so long as Injustice 2 isn't coming out any time soon. Even if it isn't though, for most people MKX was a 100$ product , they spend 60 on the game, 20 on 2015 DLC and 20 more on 2016 dlc. It worked because millions bought it. Going F2P for MKX in a couple years (if no MKXI is planned) might be worth it but for now ? more money can be made via traditional methods.

Ono needs to read this and go "Oyeah".

 

[ghst]

That's not actually a problem considering the huge install base for PS4 compared to the install base for Xbox One...

marginalises the game to my mind. reduces the weight of the franchise.

same happened with tomb raider.

 

[CountAntonius]

Sure as hell shouldn't have been 60 dollars.

 

[mitchlol]

I'm a big fan of Dota 2, I think that model is exceptional, I am happy to buy skins/huds/weather effects and even emoticons because I like the game so much. I'm even happier to know that none of the purchases affect the game in a mechanics way. Everything is purely cosmetic. I think a f2p fighter would be an awesome idea. I could easily see myself dropping well over a $100 for cosmetic items for a character that I like. Even if they gave me the option to purchase different intros before a match I would probably bite. Provided that nothing effects the gameplay or mechanics I hope that a publisher/developer could find the kind of success valve did with Dota.

As a relatively new player to fighters I always felt there was really only 2 fighters that mattered... Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. Now I think Smash is part of that list but I don't know if another fighter can break through to the mainstream. Even KI which is really fun to play gets out to the side for one of the aforementioned games.

Would a f2p fighter that isn't one of those I mentioned have a chance?

Would I be keen for a f2p street fighter HELL YES!!! The more people able to play the better!

 

[JayWood2010]

Killer Instinct's model is perfect. One free character, doesnt lock you out of anything. After that you can either pay for the entire game for $60, buy an individual season for $20, or buy and individual character for $5.

Its been very successful for them. So your comment about the only successful fighting games being Smash and MKX is wrong.


Phil SpencerVerified account
‏@XboxP3
@superNoid Thanks. Success with KI was a good sign and you'll see some more IP return.

9:26 PM - 28 Jan 2014

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/428398817805746177


And more recently

"But we wanted to do a new KI, so when Xbox One was just an idea we said, “Okay, this is our time to bring back KI.” We wanted to rethink its model a little bit and sell it in a different way than the traditional way fighting games are typically sold, which has actually worked really well for us."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...&utm_medium=social&utm_source&PostPageIndex=2

Also Kenn Lobb said last year that Killer Instinct has been downloaded millions of times in a video, which has certainly increased even more since then.

As for Street Fighter V, the reason it hasnt been successful is because it was $60 at launch for a game the was incomplete. KI on the other hand was $20 per season. SFV should have released for $30-40 imo.

 

[captmcblack]

Street Fighter's biggest mistake was rushing to release. They should've take their time to come out with the full package for $60. There's nothing wrong with the gameplay, the graphics...anything.

But you can't come out with shitty netcode, no single-player, limited multiplayer options, and a non-functioning store/in-game currency and expect that people will be just fine - especially given that it was banking on only 2 platforms this time. They'd better find a way to either get the game on other platforms, or to take it seriously and re-release the game with all the expected bells and whistles.

There's no need to change the business model - they just needed to come out with something that was worth the price of entry to people other than the most hardcore fans.

 

[Nuu]

Another thing that makes me uncomfortable about this is that developers in F2P focus on making their money through costumes and other DLC. This would make having a game using 2D visuals or even 2D-like visuals very difficult as developers would have to redraw all their sprites or remodel all of their 3D models from scratch. Say good bye to traditionally animated characters like in Skullgirls, pixel art sprites like in Blazblue, or hyper-stylistic 3D models like in Xrd.

EDIT - Some of these ideas in this thread are fucking horrendous. Pay to play matches? Use Amiibos to select characters (to be fair the poster doesn't want this)? Put resource focus on costumes rather than new characters and tweaking the game? This is why I like the fighting genre being so conservative. So this crap doesn't seep into it.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

As a relatively new player to fighters I always felt there was really only 2 fighters that mattered... Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. Now I think Smash is part of that list but I don't know if another fighter can break through to the mainstream. Even KI which is really fun to play gets out to the side for one of the aforementioned games.

There's a hell of a lot more fighters that matter than these three (KOF, Tekken for example) and I'd argue that some of the mainstream tastes for what can constitute a fighter breaking into that part of the market are questionable, seeing the controversy that came about w/ some aspects of SFV and some of the common shared logic among some casual players.

That said, I'm always of the belief the genre needs to appeal to more people to be financially viable, but it's not a one-way street, either.

 

[Arkeband]

Street Fighter's biggest mistake was rushing to release. They should've take their time to come out with the full package for $60. There's nothing wrong with the gameplay, the graphics...anything.

Shadows and hair are pretty wonky, and some of those stage backgrounds have some PS2-quality NPC's/animals/etc.

 

[Gunslinger]

I don't get why so many people are against the idea of a f2p version. Buyers remorse? Who knows. But in order to increase a shrinking player base we need a f2p version ASAP. As early as April with the guile patch.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I am not against f2p but I don't think Capcom has Tecmo's pipeline to pump stuff out and make good money off it. Team Ninja is uniquely suited to that from their work on the DOAX game from before and Hayashi's madness.

 

[Archaix]

I mean, 99% of F2P games not named DOTA 2 or Path to Exile are absurdly expensive to play in the long term, so this would be right in line with that. It would literally be just like the arcade system! It's weird how no one complained about putting quarters in a machine, but bring this system outside of the arcade to a F2P game and it's suddenly ridiculous or scummy.

Arcades died the moment they stopped offering something you can't get at home. The model would not be sustainable if you were literally at home playing the game.

 

[Jakartalado]

Capcom handicapped SFV in just too many ways.

• PS4 Console Exclusive
• F2P progression/currency system
• $60 pricetag
• Launching without any significant singleplayer content
• Technical matchmaking/network/loading problems

They probably could have gotten away with maybe 1-2 of these issues, but all of them together pretty much meant that nobody was interested in buying their initial release.

I got it for free and I think I played for 3 hours! (a lot of problems with the delivery, the company gave me the game after 1 month of headache).

Capcom is without question in trouble this gen. SF V is their first next gen title and is a mess. The rest is remasters of old games (and a port of RE Revelations 2 from PS3 and 360).

Not to mention Deep Down....

 

[El Sabroso]

So basically you're saying that fighting games should adopt the Killer Instinct (2013) model.

I agree.

that simple, and fighting games should aim to have KI netcode lvl, since is the best netcode for FGs right now

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

No.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I agree. I think the KI model is best for fighters outside of the NIS ones and Smash that have super broad appeal to support robust single player and $60 releases.

I'm loving SFV, but it would have a larger player base and probably make them more money in the long term if they'd gone with the KI approach and not had in game fight money.

 

[laserlaser]

hell noooooooooooooooo

DOA did welll as f2p cuz guys love tittties

SFV was a good model (free characters!), capcom just fucked up the launch.

I love Guilty Gear but fuck buyin multiple versions

 

[old manatee]

They should have just let everyone download a client that has a top-tier, playable Street Fighter tutorial and access to Ryu and 1 costume, color, song, stage, announcer, etc and had a store ready day 1 that they could flood with all of those things. It would have been huge. They released a half-finished f2p game at full retail price.

 

[Gunslinger]

They should have just let everyone download a client that has a top-tier, playable Street Fighter tutorial and access to Ryu and 1 costume, color, song, stage, announcer, etc and had a store ready day 1 that they could flood with all of those things. It would have been huge. They released a half-finished f2p game at full retail price.

I agree that's what sfv should've been.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The basic gameplay of beating characters up using punches and kicks (or whatever) from a side view, isn't intrinsically suitable only for multiplayer.

NRS games are demonstrating that by making a full, robust game that uses the play mechanics of a fighting game for both single and multiplayer activities, you can be very successful selling a $60 package. Smash Bros is also doing just fine.

The problem is that a fighting game has to decide clearly what it's going to be up front, because a game that is mostly a multiplayer only client, is going to have to adhere to the new model for multiplayer-only games. And that is quickly becoming a F2P system. I'll be curious to see how long the big names like Call of Duty can hold out as $60 products with short, unsatisfying campaigns that are mostly focused on multiplayer.

 

[CrispyBoar]

marginalises the game to my mind. reduces the weight of the franchise.

same happened with tomb raider.

Except that Tomb Raider was a timed exclusive & came out on the least popular console this gen.

Another thing that makes me uncomfortable about this is that developers in F2P focus on making their money through costumes and other DLC. This would make having a game using 2D visuals or even 2D-like visuals very difficult as developers would have to redraw all their sprites or remodel all of their 3D models from scratch. Say good bye to traditionally animated characters like in Skullgirls, pixel art sprites like in Blazblue, or hyper-stylistic 3D models like in Xrd.

Even SNK Playmore went with 3D modeling with KOF XIV, despite having no experience with it on the canonical KOF games, because the 2D pixel art models on both KOF XII & XIII weren't cost effective & because that they take too much time to make.

2D visuals/2D pixel art models in fighting games are basically dead at this point for those two very reasons.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I could actually envisage Smash as a F2P title using Amiibos as 'per session' character unlocks working

e: Not sure I would want to sit there scanning amiibos until the roster is fully open, but it could 'work'

That legit sounds awful. I don't know why people always envision the most money gouging ideas for amiibos :/

Anyway, I'm pretty sure part of the quality and sheer amount of content in Smash Bros needs it to have an initial payment and I'm more than happy to pay for it, because I've never once gotten a Smash game and not thing the amount of content justified it's price point

 

[CrazyHal]

I 100% agreed. The free to play model is perfect for fighting games and i think it would greatly benefit both the consumers and the companies.

 

[A.E Suggs]

Naw fighters still do well enough. i don't think ASW would still be making fighters and dubbing the full story modes in english if they didn't make bank.

Wow. DoA has much more reach than we thought!

Also 40 years? What a calculation lmao.

Look can we just agree that capcom fucked up the launch? Even if they did everything right I don't think it would have gotten 2 million within the end of march. Maybe like 1.5 million maybe. To get those numbers they'll have to do like Smash or MK.

I bet when square releases that Final fantasy dissidia game on console it'll do over 2 million easy.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Free to play versions with upgrade paths are fine but I think a packaged full price version is better. I would rather just buy the game than be nickel and dimed for it.

 

[Pompadour]

Naw fighters still do well enough. i don't think ASW would still be making fighters and dubbing the full story modes in english if they didn't make bank.

Isn't the new GGXrd entirely in Japanese with no dub option?

 

[7DollarHagane]

You are a fool if you think that is anything but a huge win for the consumer. Posts like the one above consistently emphasize how ignorant the lynch mob is. They want to be angry and they won't let facts get in the way of their anger!

This post should be quoted as often as possible.

Anger before facts has become the mantra for this forum over all kinds of stupid issues.

 

[CountAntonius]

Free to play versions with upgrade paths are fine but I think a packaged full price version is better. I would rather just buy the game than be nickel and dimed for it.

You will still be nickel and dimes for cosmetics at least. Updates cost money and continued support for competitive games is a must.

 

[AndrewPL]

I'm happy with how street fighter 5 is, it'll launch as it is, release a character every month then at the end of the year will have a $20 dlc bundle and go onto ps+. You say financially it's a flop but it'll make money but maybe not in the launch window!

 

[A.E Suggs]

Isn't the new GGXrd entirely in Japanese with no dub option?

You mean the most recent game that's coming out? Can't say but I don't remember the japanese game for the first game having an english dub either, could be wrong.

 

[border]

That's not actually a problem considering the huge install base for PS4 compared to the install base for Xbox One...

It should have been available across 360, Xbox One, and PS3. The PC port was probably a waste of time too.....it should have at least been pushed back so more resources could be devoted to delivering a finished product on consoles.

 

[C-Sword]

Isn't the new GGXrd entirely in Japanese with no dub option?

I think the NA version is english only and you have the Japanese voice over as PAID DLC.

 

[lupinko]

Tekken with its hundreds of costumes is prime for F2P. They don't even need to sell characters, Tekken players love their customization.

Nah, Tekken will sell you randomized item lotto tickets instead, that you have to grind Gold and Orbs to develop to actually use.

This is something they already do for Tekken 7 arcade.

Get ready for this randomized hell console players!

 

[-tetsuo-]

A real novel idea would be if they made it free to download and just used the arcade revenue model. Pay a dollar every time you want to play online, if you win you get to keep playing, can't control or stop the queue or matchmaking.

This is the worst idea I have seen in quite some time.

 

[QisTopTier]

A real novel idea would be if they made it free to download and just used the arcade revenue model. Pay a dollar every time you want to play online, if you win you get to keep playing, can't control or stop the queue or matchmaking.

Cool up to 1.5k bucks a year vs 60 bucks

Your idea is garbage for anyone that plays fighters even half seriously, and completely damning to casuals

I think the NA version is english only and you have the Japanese voice over as PAID DLC.

Isn't the new GGXrd entirely in Japanese with no dub option?

WRONG SO MUCH WRONG

it has both from the get go

 

[border]

They should let people play money matches with PSN dollars, then take a % of the winnings. Put some kind of cap on how much someone can lose in a month, just so it doesn't create some kind of gambling addiction problem.

 

[Amedo310]

QQ turned both KOFUM games into f2p. It was interesting. It was arcade style, that you have to pay a coin to play a match. I think it was winner stays on and a player were allow 5 coins that refill up in a day.

 

[CrispyBoar]

It should have been available across 360, Xbox One, and PS3. The PC port was probably a waste of time too.....it should have at least been pushed back so more resources could be devoted to delivering a finished product on consoles.

But most people aren't paying any attention to either 360 or PS3 anymore. It would be a waste of time & resources to port the game onto those two consoles.

Most people are on their PS4's & gaming PC's if anything.

 

[Kelsdesu]

Im okay with this. They want to micro transaction to death after already paying for a full copy.

I don't think I will ever pay for another fighting game again.

Spoiler

I'm lying. New Vf would do it.

 

[KingBroly]

Im okay with this. They want to micro transaction to death after already paying for a full copy.

I don't think I will ever pay for another fighting game again.

Spoiler

I'm lying. New Vf would do it.

As is, SF5 would have to revamp the game to work as a F2P game. There's just a lot of things in there most players, even for free, simply would refuse to tolerate for very long, and wouldn't get Capcom much money.

 

[Polioliolio]

A real novel idea would be if they made it free to download and just used the arcade revenue model. Pay a dollar every time you want to play online, if you win you get to keep playing, can't control or stop the queue or matchmaking.

Hell no.
Absolutely not. Who would pay to play online if it had free local play?
Pay a buck to play in a legitimate online tournament would be alright, I suppose, but not against random players or spars with friends.

 

[Nuu]

Even SNK Playmore went with 3D modeling with KOF XIV, despite having no experience with it on the canonical KOF games, because the 2D pixel art models on both KOF XII & XIII weren't cost effective & because that they take too much time to make.

2D visuals/2D pixel art models in fighting games are basically dead at this point for those two very reasons.

This is not true at all. Pretty much every indie fighter uses 2D graphics (Skullgirls, Them Figthing Herds, Traf, Cerebrawl, etc.). Arc System Works uses 2D graphics for everything not Guilty Gear which they stated was just as difficult as creating HD sprites due to their technique. French Bread uses 2D graphics. Etc. Capcom is really the only company that did a full switch to 3D due to them trying to appeal to the masses and recently SNK because they've been on life support for almost two decades and proceeded to get bailed out by a Chinese company..

I don't get why so many people are against the idea of a f2p version. Buyers remorse? Who knows. But in order to increase a shrinking player base we need a f2p version ASAP. As early as April with the guile patch.

1. People have explained their reasons many times.

2. Player base for fighting games aren't shrinking. Street Fighter V just had a crappy launch.

 

[Renekton]

This is not true at all. Pretty much every indie fighter uses 2D graphics (Skullgirls, Them Figthing Herds, Traf, Cerebrawl, etc.). Arc System Works uses 2D graphics for everything not Guilty Gear. French Bread uses 2D graphics. Etc. Capcom is really the only company that did a full switch to 3D and recently SNK.

https://youtu.be/54SSWH8Mj88?t=30m

Crispyboar is right :/

 

[Purple Cheeto]

A real novel idea would be if they made it free to download and just used the arcade revenue model. Pay a dollar every time you want to play online, if you win you get to keep playing, can't control or stop the queue or matchmaking.

This would never catch on. But F2P is probably the way to go for Fighting Games in the future. Its increasingly hard to justify purchasing multiplayer only games in other genres when there are already quality free options.

 

[Nuu]

https://youtu.be/54SSWH8Mj88?t=30m

Crispyboar is right :/

Not really as that simplifies things way too much. The reason why King of Fighters XIII sprites took so long is because they had insanely detailed shading that was pixel to pixel. Blazblue sprites took less than half as long to make despite being at a much higher resolution because Arc System Works decided to go with a full anime artstyle rather than pixel perfect shading.

In terms of how long it takes it completely depends on the game. Guilty Gear Xrd models take as long to make as Blazblue HD sprites due to the unique technique it involved. Skullgirls style takes a fraction of the amount of time that King of Fighters XII takes due to it using traditional animation and being able to split the work load up. Games with smaller resolution sprites like Arcana Heart and Traf take about double the time of an average 3D model. This admittedly longer, but not something that is particularly out of reach.

In terms of cost this virtually goes out the window the larger the project is. Street Fighter IV models for example cost more than three times more than it does to create a fully animated 2D character in Skullgirls (about a million dollar for SFIV). Like many things in business the actual cost of manufacturing the product isn't where most of the money goes to.

Yes 2D animation in games is on average more difficult and expensive (due to developers relying on pre-canned animations and every handicap they can use), but how big of that gap is really depends on what project you are working on. On top of that there are stylistic choices as well such as Skullgirls complex animations or Guilty Gear Xrd looking like an anime.

But I'm getting off topic here. His argument was that 2D is dead which is factually incorrect due to many fighting game developers still making 2D games both present and in the future.There are far more 2D fighters coming out that use 2D graphics than 3D. Due to that his statement is false.

 

[Sakujou]

disagree. back then i paid 60 bucks for a game which is an arcadeport so i have everything from the arcade in my home. i dont want to buy pieces of the game. i want the full game to buy and play offline as well.

 

[toastyToast]

I could actually envisage Smash as a F2P title using Amiibos as 'per session' character unlocks working

e: Not sure I would want to sit there scanning amiibos until the roster is fully open, but it could 'work'

So Smash 4 would have only cost me $600 instead of $80 or whatever with all the characters

Sign me up

 

[213372bu]

I could actually envisage Smash as a F2P title using Amiibos as 'per session' character unlocks working

e: Not sure I would want to sit there scanning amiibos until the roster is fully open, but it could 'work'

Paying hundreds of dollars just to get characters up and more depending on the horrible scalper + supply situation with Nintendo.

No thanks.

 

[Beartruck]

A real novel idea would be if they made it free to download and just used the arcade revenue model. Pay a dollar every time you want to play online, if you win you get to keep playing, can't control or stop the queue or matchmaking.

No. For any serious players this would cost them in the hundreds, and they really don't wanna piss off their core audience right now.

 

[TheSeks]

No. For any serious players this would cost them in the hundreds, and they really don't wanna piss off their core audience right now.

Hell, casuals that could turn into online players would never touch it due to the quarter up system.