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Street Fighter V |OTVII| New Generation - Connection To Haters Was Lost

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R

Rickenslacker

Banned
I think it's just shifted a bit, if we're talking about simply doing a meaty off feel, SF4 is easier in that respect I agree, but to speak of what you originally said:

mbpm1 said:
Why did capcom decide it was fun to have a game that demands knockdown emphasis while simultaneously making setups hard to execute without canned timing?
Click to expand...

SF4 demands far more arbitrary knowledge to maintain real pressure and gain advantage on knockdown IMO.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Rickenslacker said:
I think it's just shifted a bit, if we're talking about simply doing a meaty off feel, SF4 is easier in that respect I agree, but to speak of what you originally said:



SF4 demands far more arbitrary knowledge to maintain real pressure and gain advantage on knockdown IMO.
Click to expand...

well that is what I meant.

It demands you know a setup to execute a meaty properly most of the time.

Executing a meaty by feel is more difficult for some reason they wanted. if you're doing a meaty 90% of the time you'll only do it after you hit them with move X and then dashed to make the timing right. While in sf4 you could just look at them and then do it.

Also my saying that you needed less knowledge to pressure on knockdown is probably influenced bc I played Ultra Ken I suppose. He could hit you in 8 different ways.

And originally I was talking in terms of optics.

When someone goes to meaty someone in sfiv and the person gets out because of uppercuts, or backdash, or some other move, it looks intended and makes sense.

But when somebody goes to meaty someone, and their attack whiffs because the lack of active frames and the window for meaty is so fast, and the opponent wakes up attacking, which would have gotten beaten by the intended meaty, and this happens often enough in high level play that it's just a thing, the effect is like ????

weird.
 
E

Edzi

Member
myco666 said:
Seems to be one of the more used characters. See her pretty often when I play.



Easiest FG to get into for me. Then again maybe I just think I have gotten into it lol.
Click to expand...

Depends what you define as easy to get into. If it's just doing combos, then sure. But what I'm talking about is the case where you're trying to get someone new into the game, and they pick it up for the first time. That person playing against someone who's been playing only a little longer but knows a few setups is going to be horribly one sided, more so than a lot of other games imo. After one knockdown, it could potentially be over without giving the beginner a chance to press anything, and setups are a lot harder to explain to someone new than special moves, normals, and spacing.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Looks like we'll be getting 8 hours of maintenance with our costumes tomorrow:

Google Translate said:
We will perform server maintenance work at the following date and time.
The online function can not be used during this period.

Working time
Wednesday, April 26, 2017 3:00 - 11:00

Work content
· Preparation for DLC delivery

We apologize to you for your inconvenience, thank you for your understanding
Click to expand...
http://game.capcom.com/cfn/sfv/systemfault/131645
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
C-I8ARBXYAAkqGI.jpg
 
M

myco666

Member
Edzi said:
Depends what you define as easy to get into. If it's just doing combos, then sure. But what I'm talking about is the case where you're trying to get someone new into the game, and they pick it up for the first time. That person playing against someone who's been playing only a little longer but knows a few setups is going to be horribly one sides, moreso than a lot of other games imo. After one knockdown, it could potentially be over without giving the beginner a chance to press anything, and setups are a lot harder to explain to someone new than special moves, normals, and spacing.
Click to expand...

Easy to get into as in I grasp the basic idea rather fast and don't scramble with bnbs. I've tried to get into bunch of other games but haven't progressed past scrub level in them. For example I have 300+ hours in SF4 and had like 100 bp or pp. With SFV I got into silver with way less hours invested.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Man I am telling you guys, there is no greater feeling in the world than outzoning a Guile.

Just had a set with a Guile player, and it was pretty darn fun. He was good too, solid AAs, fireball timings and boom loops.

Part 1 and Part 2

Some of my frametraps in that match aren't really frametraps (mainly the cr.mk blocked into st.hp). It will be a frametrap in S2.5 though!!!!
 
M

MrCarter

Member
Daigo's thoughts on his semi-final E-League match. I like how humble and positive he is and doesn't whine like others despite losing his main.

UnhqQ8e.jpg
 
C

CountBlack

Member
MrCarter said:
Daigo's thoughts on his semi-final E-League match. I like how humble and positive he is and doesn't whine like others despite losing his main.

UnhqQ8e.jpg
Click to expand...

nah he's whined on BeasTV, blamed Woshige for Ryu being trash etc

I do like that Japan blames Woshige and NA blames Combofiend
 
M

MrCarter

Member
CountBlack said:
nah he's whined on BeasTV, blamed Woshige for Ryu being trash etc

I do like that Japan blames Woshige and NA blames Combofiend
Click to expand...

Clearly he's not whining here. He's one of the only pro players that takes things in his stride though and actually adapts to a situation rather than complain. That's probably because he's been in the game (excuse the pun) for such a long time that he knows what the deal is when it comes to balance in a SF title.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
MrCarter said:
Clearly he's not whining here. He's one of the only pro players that takes things in his stride though and actually adapts to a situation rather than complain. That's probably because he's been in the game (excuse the pun) for such a long time that he knows what the deal is when it comes to balance in a SF title.
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody including capcom understands what the deal is is regards to balancing in a SF title and that's why he switched to a better character lol
 
P

peter0611

Member
I don't have a problem with top players complaining about balance issues. What's important is the tone, how often you do it, and if there's evidence that you've tried to adapt to the situation.

Bonchan is a perfect example. His frustration in that Born Free video is totally justified, even if you don't agree with everything said. I still clearly remember how much work the guy put into Sagat late in SF4, when the character was considered lackluster.
 
M

MCD250

Member
lucebuce12 said:
Man I am telling you guys, there is no greater feeling in the world than outzoning a Guile.

Just had a set with a Guile player, and it was pretty darn fun. He was good too, solid AAs, fireball timings and boom loops.

Part 1 and Part 2

Some of my frametraps in that match aren't really frametraps (mainly the cr.mk blocked into st.hp). It will be a frametrap in S2.5 though!!!!
Click to expand...
These are great matches. Always good to watch an awesome FANG work.

CountBlack said:
I do like that Japan blames Woshige and NA blames Combofiend
Click to expand...
Heh.
 
A

abstract alien

Member
What's the answer to balancing Balrog without removing what makes him fun to play? Say you did want to keep his high damage output and comeback potential, how do you do it and still keep him fair? I'm barely above "casual", so my input is a bit worthless, but the two things I'd change would be TAP being safe on block, and I'd tighten the living hell out of his strings and timing, input wise. Tone down the corner carry? Are his hit boxes fucked? Are his normals too safe and rewarding?

What should they do?

lucebuce12 said:
Man I am telling you guys, there is no greater feeling in the world than outzoning a Guile.

Just had a set with a Guile player, and it was pretty darn fun. He was good too, solid AAs, fireball timings and boom loops.

Part 1 and Part 2

Some of my frametraps in that match aren't really frametraps (mainly the cr.mk blocked into st.hp). It will be a frametrap in S2.5 though!!!!
Click to expand...
Sigh, every time I think I'm progressing, you show me how much work I have ahead of myself. Great stuff, as always.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Neoxon said:
So how many OTs do you guys think we'll go through by the end of the year?
Click to expand...

I'm confident we can reach OT10 by the end of the year. Between tournaments, new characters, new DLC, new costumes, discussions, MEMES, and shitposts we can last a long time.
abstract alien said:
Sigh, every time I think I'm progressing, you show me how much work I have ahead of myself. Great stuff, as always.
Click to expand...

MCD250 said:
These are great matches. Always good to watch an awesome FANG work.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys. I've been considering posting replays of some of my more closer matches, figured I might as well start now.
mbpm1 said:
Balrog is fine. Just don't get hit once.
Click to expand...
This!!
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
abstract alien said:
What's the answer to balancing Balrog without removing what makes him fun to play? Say you did want to keep his high damage output and comeback potential, how do you do it and still keep him fair? I'm barely above "casual", so my input is a bit worthless, but the two things I'd change would be TAP being safe on block, and I'd tighten the living hell out of his strings and timing, input wise. Tone down the corner carry? Are his hit boxes fucked? Are his normals too safe and rewarding?

What should they do?
Click to expand...

I would say this. Hes just relatively safe on a lot of buttons. TAP shouldn't be a free get in card. Heavy kick shouldn't be safe enough to be able to throw out another right after.

Thats really my only problem with Balrog is that he can get in pretty easily and then stay there since his buttons don't have that much pushback and are relatively safe.
 
M

MCD250

Member
abstract alien said:
What's the answer to balancing Balrog without removing what makes him fun to play? Say you did want to keep his high damage output and comeback potential, how do you do it and still keep him fair? I'm barely above "casual", so my input is a bit worthless, but the two things I'd change would be TAP being safe on block, and I'd tighten the living hell out of his strings and timing, input wise. Tone down the corner carry? Are his hit boxes fucked? Are his normals too safe and rewarding?

What should they do?
Click to expand...
I'd take TAP down a notch (don't even remove the ability to make it plus on block, necessarily, just maybe make it take a longer charge to get it to plus levels), make his sHK negative on block and...maybe make one or two of his low kicks hit medium like in S1, though that may not be necessary, I dunno.

I DO think his damage needs to go. Far as I can tell he's the only character who can hit you with three EX moves and do so in a combo that carries you all the way to the corner, giving him basically a super's worth of damage plus change. Soon as one of his EX moves hits, scaling should kick in dramatically. Either that or popping V-Trigger should scale his combo damage by considerably more than 10% (which is how I think it is for all characters, though I'm not too sure).
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Less corner carry, less damage on EX moves, revert screw upper back to a d+u charge motion, Make the first few levels of TAP more -, can't cancel into v-trigger off of the overhead (can cancel from the v-skill punch).
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
cool.

Maybe just pick any 2 from that list.

I really don't see how screw upper being a non-charge move is balanced. Every single time Balrog lands a st.hk CC in your face, it'll lead to both insane damage and corner carry and that's without bring meter into the equation. Making it charge again would still make well timed jump-ins just as good but make it so that you can't get insane damage + corner carry. You can just go to the target combo after a CC and get more v-meter + a setup.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
abstract alien said:
What's the answer to balancing Balrog without removing what makes him fun to play? Say you did want to keep his high damage output and comeback potential, how do you do it and still keep him fair? I'm barely above "casual", so my input is a bit worthless, but the two things I'd change would be TAP being safe on block, and I'd tighten the living hell out of his strings and timing, input wise. Tone down the corner carry? Are his hit boxes fucked? Are his normals too safe and rewarding?

What should they do?
Click to expand...

Since damage is the name of the game in SFV, I don't necessarily mind his damage. Imo the only thing I'd like to see changed is his cr.MK hitting mid again so you can walk backwards safely.

TAP is strong and I'm fine with it, but for tournament purposes, if the tourny isn't providing headphones for the stations, then you're pretty much forced to guess between which level TAP you think they're doing. I'd like to see maybe a counter pop up on the screen on Balrog's side to say which number it is so you know if it's your turn or not lmao.

Crush counters are currently kinda dumb with how some work as level two focus attacks for random crumples in neutral, especially with the priority system in which stronger buttons beat lower level buttons (on the same frame I think). So Balrog doing st.HK on +3 on block and with CC properties over and over until it hits for 50% is kinda stupid but I'm fine with it since it's what this games about lol.

I still think a lot of issues with the game come from the extra input lag which needs to be fixed or addressed but apparently some players can react fine so it's fine (says combofiend at least)

Urien's ex elbow & Aegis mixups
Balrog ex low & V-Trigger mixups
Guile ex Sonic Boom/Vskill ex sonic boom
dash up command throws
blocking overheads
blocking side switches
Anti airing
Birdie ex dolphin dive

all of these things wouldn't be as strong if the input lag was lowered IMO but that's probably not gonna happen so it is what it is


ex devils reverse would still be retarded tho 100%
 
I

ibrahima

Banned
abstract alien said:
What's the answer to balancing Balrog without removing what makes him fun to play?
Click to expand...

Reduce the juggle potential on his juggle V trigger combos, or make V Skill cancel during ex V Trigger cost some V meter.

I like rog and it's been fun to watch him be OP in SF right now, but yeah he could do with a tweak.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
lucebuce12 said:
cool.

Maybe just pick any 2 from that list.

I really don't see how screw upper being a non-charge move is balanced. Every single time Balrog lands a st.hk CC in your face, it'll lead to both insane damage and corner carry and that's without bring meter into the equation. Making it charge again would still make well timed jump-ins just as good but make it so that you can't get insane damage + corner carry. You can just go to the target combo after a CC and get more v-meter + a setup.
Click to expand...

Balrog's problem in S1 was that he couldn't control that space well with his headbutt & dash upper both being taken away. Neutral jumping against Balrog in neutral was a decent strategy because Rog couldn't really do anything about it with armour also being taken away from his dashes (outside of screw upper). I think it made sense but at the same time eating one of 50 st.HK's into cr.HP -> HK screw upper into 60% is a bit much yea
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
reducing input lag to 0.5 frames isn't gonna make Urien's EX tackle or Balrog's EX moves or Guile's EX booms (at least when you're closer than fullscreen) or to an extent, Birdie' EX dive more reactable.

Those moves were designed to have incredibly fast startup because they WANT them to be next to impossible to react to.

Side switches are bullshit though, I agree with you on that. But I think overheads are fine.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Rog should be -2 after EX rush, his VT lunges should cost more VT each, and his cr mk should not be a low.

Other than that he is fine.

The fact that it's a mental guard break to jump around like an idiot versus Rog when he has VT, because the only thing most players want is to mindlessly hit cr mk twice into VT into death, is really dumb right now.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
lucebuce12 said:
reducing input lag to 0.5 frames isn't gonna make Urien's EX tackle or Balrog's EX moves or Guile's EX booms (at least when you're closer than fullscreen) or to an extent, Birdie' EX dive more reactable.

Those moves were designed to have incredibly fast startup because they WANT them to be next to impossible to react to.

Side switches are bullshit though, I agree with you on that. But I think overheads are fine.
Click to expand...

It's not necessarily that they'll be easier to react to, it's that walking and blocking would be an actual strategy vs the current risk of walking forward against a charging Urien or Balrog doing random V-Skill's from fullscreen into ex low or Guile's ex boom.


Overheads are fine to an extent that they're a bit slower and can be punished (meanwhile Ibuki's is -2 but it is what it is). It's just that, I've had some instances you know where I um.. B L O C K E D T H A T S H I T and was holding back for the past several years because I saw that overhead coming from a few miles away but nah, you gotta commit to holding back damn near before the overhead starts up
 
M

MrCarter

Member
CountBlack said:
I don't think anybody including capcom understands what the deal is is regards to balancing in a SF title and that's why he switched to a better character lol
Click to expand...

That's what I mean. He knows balancing in previous SF titles (including SFV) have been poor to say the least which is why he's adapting.

myco666 said:
OTVIII | 8 hours. I'll finish you in 8 hours
OTVIII | Our 8 OT maintenance has now finished and servers are up
Click to expand...

lucebuce12 said:
|OT8| Connection to OT7 was lost
Click to expand...

Good ones.
 
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