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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs
- Thread starter Reizo Ryuu
- Start date
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
GGs even though it's really hard for me to react to anything with this lag ;P, twice I had you jump on my screen only to suddenly be standing again and doing a command grab >_>..
Yeah, same. GGs.
I need to branch out more besides playing Mika and Cammy, but Ibuki intimidates me with her new gameplay style and I feel like I might enjoy playing, Laura, Alex and Fangief.
Karsticles
Member
My HRAP4 Kai came with a Hayabusa stick. I had to install a heavier spring to give it proper resistance. My hands were flying all over the place.
lucebuce12
Member
Either that's a mistake or you're talking about RAAM in KI.
The Lone Dragon
Member
Dreamhack Atlanta top 8 currently on:
https://www.twitch.tv/dreamhackfighters
https://www.twitch.tv/dreamhackfighters
I hate everything about RAAM in KI, he's an eyesore in a game of eyesores and his bat things just make playing against him a pain in the ass. He's also just a pretty awful guest character all around.
They should have just added in the chick from perfect dark instead.
lucebuce12
Member
Ehh, I like him.
Etrian Oddity
Member
At least Raam's inclusion gave us Mick Gordon's amazing version of the Gears of War theme.
TheSpoiler
Member
Abby better not be ass
sixteen-bit
Member
Mick Gordon didn't write the music for S3 btw.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
You're already at home with mika, don't think you'd have to much trouble picking up laura.
lucebuce12
Member
This. Mick Gordon did the tracks for S1 and S2 (I think all of them, maybe most).
But in S3, he had almost no role. It was Celdwellder and Atlas Plug.
S3 music has been a bit disappointing with the exception of that GoW theme as Eterian mentioned, and Kilgore's amazing theme. Eyedol's is also pretty decent.
He will be. Guaranteed
TheSpoiler
Member
Marvel
could never
His backdash alone is grimey af.
ScraftyDevil
Banned
I actually think Tusk's theme is my favourite post-S2 theme in KI. The fast-paced part from 3:50 on is especially hype; a perfect fit for my main.
Etrian Oddity
Member
Reeeeeaaallllyyyyy, I did not know that.
TheSpoiler
Member
I hope everything whiffs on those finger guns of his.
Hugo was ass according to pretty much every tier whore and he was still the character that interested me the most in USF4. The somewhat negative reaction to Abigail's initial reveal will probably (hopefully) force Capcom to make sure he doesn't suck. I can't see him being as "bad" as Hugo, especially since SF5's balance is pretty, pretty good.
The fingers have hitboxes.
lucebuce12
Member
I wish Capcpom would spring for improved netcode or just better their own abomination.
TheSpoiler
Member
Hugo was a blast. Most of the FF cast was a blast in general. It's a lot that has to do with their character and their style, and their gameplans were just fun as fuck. Guy, Cody, Poison, Hugo, and Rolento were just scummy in all their games. Maybe Rolento more than anyone else, but they were just fun.
Even in SFxT, Alpha, etc.
Still gonna keep my Guile around, but Abby seriously looks enjoyable.
Even in SFxT, Alpha, etc.
Still gonna keep my Guile around, but Abby seriously looks enjoyable.
direct_quote
Member
I assume(hope) that when Capcom releases MvC:i it will be with an improved version of their rollback netcode. We know MvC:i is using the same netcode, so maybe after the improved netcode is released for MvC:i, season 3 will get that update too...
Etrian Oddity
Member
SPD is cooler than Hugo's moonsault press, but Gigas Breaker is better than any of Zangief's supers.
Omnistalgic
Member
no doubt about that. Top 8 is the easiest to win with no question. Just saying if you really love a character, there is usually some Master level dude to follow on CFN and pick up pointers from. It CAN be done. And really if you aren't competing, I'd say you should probably play who you genuinely like best.
Eyedols theme is my favorite S3 theme, hands down. S3 music was't bad overall, but still no where as good as Micks work, IMO.
Was a sad day when we learned he was moving on, but we got the Doom OST as a result so its okay.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Third Strike Hugo is the best big man grappler Capcom has ever made. Most fun, best moves, best Super. Dat MP slap. The clap. His taunt. So good.
The Suzaku Castle theme should have been Ryus theme to begin with. I really disliked the use of electric instruments in his particular theme.
Most of the trials are easy. Exception is Karin rekka into sweep due to wacky timing and Giefs cr.mp into CA. Haven't managed to do the latter yet.
Etrian Oddity
Member
My big problem with Capcom using "classic" themes for these dope stages is they don't have the awesome difference in round 1 and round 2/3 that other stages have. None of the classic stages have that awesome switch up between rounds like the original SFV stages.
London Station and Hillside Plaza are on a totally different level than Air Force Base, High Roller Casino and the Taverna. Oddly enough, the Akuma temple does have the cool multi-round score.
Cr.mp into CA just takes a little practice, I can pull that off in matches now. It was his Knee Hammer trial that gave me fits.
I'd have millions of FM if that was possible.
lucebuce12
Member
In regards to the conversation with Omni about viability, well it depends on your skill level and what you expect from your character choice.
If you just play this game to fuck around and have fun then yes, by all means choose the character that you like the most. If winning isn't even a factor in why you play this game, then for sure. No character is THAT lopsided.
But if you're at all a competitive person then your character choice will matter. You will most likely pick a character that gels the best with you as your main. It might be entirely based on visuals and you adapting to their playstyle, or you picking the character that best fits your playstyle, that part is up to the player.
In regards to the general theme of the balance this season, it's all about offense. So if you at all like playing defensive and for whatever reason don't like playing Guile then you're shit out of luck. If winning is at all important to you then you have to pick a top tier character that can dish out large chunks or deliver heavy resets.
Because while you still most certainly CAN win with characters like Alex, FANG, Juri etc, you almost literally have to work 3 times as hard as your opponent has to to get the same result. In some cases, it's simply due to the nature of the character that they'll require more work and more mental acuity as compared to most characters (Dhalsim and FANG are arguably the best examples of this) but the balance is so fucked that you have to work twice as hard but ultimately get half the result. The result of AAIng 4 jumpins is abysmal compared to the damage they get from one jump in (and this applies to the whole cast).
At first you might not have an issue with the characters but once you start to realize that your opponent is always getting more out of every situation then you can, that your result would be severely different if you changed characters then there is something wrong with the balance. And it's been quite a while since this season so I don't think the "It takes time to acclimate to the changes" excuse is gonna work right now.
THIS is perhaps the most frustrating thing about the game to me. The balance. Why are some characters so SEVERELY limited in general options and damage output yet you have characters that can literally end the match with one V-Trigger combo into a reset.
This is why I can't support this game as an E-S-P-O-R-T because Capcpom balance is making the game more of a treat for fighting game spectators than fighting game fans. If they REALLY wanted to make it ESPORTS then they should make it so that the player's individuality can shine through. Don't pigeonhole characters into certain roles (with the exception of specialist characters like Gief or Dhalsim) and give them all tools strong enough that skill matters more than luck.
Sorry if this turned into a rant but the gist of it is that picking a top tier is quite possibly the only way to actually have consistent fun with this game. Picking a low tier character and giving even a single shit about winning or losing is just a recipe for frustration if you're facing players of equal or greater skill levels.
If you just play this game to fuck around and have fun then yes, by all means choose the character that you like the most. If winning isn't even a factor in why you play this game, then for sure. No character is THAT lopsided.
But if you're at all a competitive person then your character choice will matter. You will most likely pick a character that gels the best with you as your main. It might be entirely based on visuals and you adapting to their playstyle, or you picking the character that best fits your playstyle, that part is up to the player.
In regards to the general theme of the balance this season, it's all about offense. So if you at all like playing defensive and for whatever reason don't like playing Guile then you're shit out of luck. If winning is at all important to you then you have to pick a top tier character that can dish out large chunks or deliver heavy resets.
Because while you still most certainly CAN win with characters like Alex, FANG, Juri etc, you almost literally have to work 3 times as hard as your opponent has to to get the same result. In some cases, it's simply due to the nature of the character that they'll require more work and more mental acuity as compared to most characters (Dhalsim and FANG are arguably the best examples of this) but the balance is so fucked that you have to work twice as hard but ultimately get half the result. The result of AAIng 4 jumpins is abysmal compared to the damage they get from one jump in (and this applies to the whole cast).
At first you might not have an issue with the characters but once you start to realize that your opponent is always getting more out of every situation then you can, that your result would be severely different if you changed characters then there is something wrong with the balance. And it's been quite a while since this season so I don't think the "It takes time to acclimate to the changes" excuse is gonna work right now.
THIS is perhaps the most frustrating thing about the game to me. The balance. Why are some characters so SEVERELY limited in general options and damage output yet you have characters that can literally end the match with one V-Trigger combo into a reset.
This is why I can't support this game as an E-S-P-O-R-T because Capcpom balance is making the game more of a treat for fighting game spectators than fighting game fans. If they REALLY wanted to make it ESPORTS then they should make it so that the player's individuality can shine through. Don't pigeonhole characters into certain roles (with the exception of specialist characters like Gief or Dhalsim) and give them all tools strong enough that skill matters more than luck.
Sorry if this turned into a rant but the gist of it is that picking a top tier is quite possibly the only way to actually have consistent fun with this game. Picking a low tier character and giving even a single shit about winning or losing is just a recipe for frustration if you're facing players of equal or greater skill levels.
Zombegoast
Member
I don't think anyone had brought it up and ask Combofiend about it. I don't care about my character or Chin's face, I just want a online mode that works.
TheSpoiler
Member
What you are saying isn't wrong, per say. In fact, you and others have vented the same issues. You do have to work harder to make your characters work as you go up the ranks. (Actually, I'd say things are harder to make work online than offline. Many players say they'd online frustrates them, and you can see that when fighting Rog offline than online .There's a whole thing on that I could speak to at length that's structurally an issue in any fighting game .SF4 had this issue too where people would go offline and get bodied, like that #1 ranked Ibuki got bodied free at a tournament).
But, two things. The first is that a). it's the nature of almost any fighting game, and b). people conflate technical balance with the feeling of balance.
On a), you are going to have to work harder in any game if you pick a lower tier. The same applies to Gundam, Tekken, etc. Your matchups will wavier, and you'll find yourself spending more and more time practicing or putting in more work. Depending on the game, some people won't do it, and some will. It's better to fit in where you can, but as luce said, if you wanna be defensive, SFV ain't your game. I watched an Alpha 2 tournament and a Chun took that shit easy while the Guy player had to work way harder.
b). SFV is technically balanced. A character being more powerful on paper isn't really the problem. It's the fact that things snowball so hard that it's stressful and painful to deal with. There's no feeling of balance. Yeah you CAN bully a Rog, but online that shit is way harder than it sounds, and when he does the damage the way he does it fucking sucks. So the game gets super frustrating and this type of aggression isn't what many players are used to. Capcom then took out defensive options so you either roll with it or get bodied.
Like, technically, you CAN stay out of the corner but all it takes is a few wrong decisions. You basically have to play perfect and calm, and that's asking a whole lot from players and ruins the enjoyment. From a technical standpoint, it's a balanced game, as much as it can be (there's no such thing as balance). But what Capcom has done is made it really hard to play in terms of stress levels. Which is why people want things nerfed moreso than not.
Anyway, I don't think anyone is particularly wrong when they say the game is unbalanced . It;'s just not on a technical scale, but something equally as important - the feeling of balance. Other games have ways of watering it down, SFV does not.
(Well, even games like Gundam are fucking painful but it's offloaded on the other team member so)
But, two things. The first is that a). it's the nature of almost any fighting game, and b). people conflate technical balance with the feeling of balance.
On a), you are going to have to work harder in any game if you pick a lower tier. The same applies to Gundam, Tekken, etc. Your matchups will wavier, and you'll find yourself spending more and more time practicing or putting in more work. Depending on the game, some people won't do it, and some will. It's better to fit in where you can, but as luce said, if you wanna be defensive, SFV ain't your game. I watched an Alpha 2 tournament and a Chun took that shit easy while the Guy player had to work way harder.
b). SFV is technically balanced. A character being more powerful on paper isn't really the problem. It's the fact that things snowball so hard that it's stressful and painful to deal with. There's no feeling of balance. Yeah you CAN bully a Rog, but online that shit is way harder than it sounds, and when he does the damage the way he does it fucking sucks. So the game gets super frustrating and this type of aggression isn't what many players are used to. Capcom then took out defensive options so you either roll with it or get bodied.
Like, technically, you CAN stay out of the corner but all it takes is a few wrong decisions. You basically have to play perfect and calm, and that's asking a whole lot from players and ruins the enjoyment. From a technical standpoint, it's a balanced game, as much as it can be (there's no such thing as balance). But what Capcom has done is made it really hard to play in terms of stress levels. Which is why people want things nerfed moreso than not.
Anyway, I don't think anyone is particularly wrong when they say the game is unbalanced . It;'s just not on a technical scale, but something equally as important - the feeling of balance. Other games have ways of watering it down, SFV does not.
(Well, even games like Gundam are fucking painful but it's offloaded on the other team member so)
lucebuce12
Member
You know what really hurts the most though?
F.A.N.G is perhaps the perfect embodiment of my preferred playstyle. A character that can switch between in offense to defense in a heartbeat, is good at both, can play hit-and-run or constant offense or constant defense. Where I can punish an opponent's mistake and start a set-play based offense (that wasn't too cheap) where I could continue the pressure and if I wanted, just reset the situation and do it all over again!
Every other character in every other game is like half the stuff I like and me adapting to another half, or just a character I play cause they're fucking awesome (She-Hulk is not at all a character I'd normally play but it's GODDAMN SHE-HULK, I gotta play her) but it's never a PERFECT fit like F.A.N.G is.
It was like finding my spirit animal when I switched from Bison to FANG. But jesus christ this balance.
F.A.N.G is perhaps the perfect embodiment of my preferred playstyle. A character that can switch between in offense to defense in a heartbeat, is good at both, can play hit-and-run or constant offense or constant defense. Where I can punish an opponent's mistake and start a set-play based offense (that wasn't too cheap) where I could continue the pressure and if I wanted, just reset the situation and do it all over again!
Every other character in every other game is like half the stuff I like and me adapting to another half, or just a character I play cause they're fucking awesome (She-Hulk is not at all a character I'd normally play but it's GODDAMN SHE-HULK, I gotta play her) but it's never a PERFECT fit like F.A.N.G is.
It was like finding my spirit animal when I switched from Bison to FANG. But jesus christ this balance.
GGs Flux, thanks for humoring me. Your Ryu feels really really timid, so the few games I took were only because you let me. Also, you should use his st. lk more, that thing punishes from crazy ranges and would really help you against Alex's specials.
Any advice for my Alex?
lucebuce12
Member
Drop him and play a real character.
GGs. Yeah, his st.LK is apparently pretty good, but I'm too used to using lights for pressure instead of just for punishes or as a real footsie tool. Learning that it was -2 oB was surprising, so I need to learn its proper usage more.
I guess some advice I would have would be to not fall into predictable patterns. It's a trap I fall into, in that you'll typically have the same response to a certain situation at a given time, or a predictable one. It's why I could shimmy you so easily and to great success, with a character who isn't even that great at doing that anymore. There was one match where you started trying to call those out with sweeps, which was working, but then I adapted, started punishing those, and you stopped trying to really check the shimmies like that again. Might as well throw out a cr.MK instead of a punishable sweep, because it's not like I was going for shimmy > button punish. Mine was just shimmy > throw punish, so getting counter hit or anything wasn't really a risk, unless you started to see I was going for bigger punishes like that.
TheSpoiler
Member
Hopefully they can give us defensive options and a new trigger. And maybe make your poison matter more.
Watching vespers breakdown of Abby is weird. He's has a lot of odd shit but in a good way. His hk let's him roll and avoid shit. He can juggle off a lot of his moves. That back throw is so long it's almost sleezy. And that health is gonna let him trigger twice probably.
Yeah, the pattern thing is something I know I've gotta work on but I'm not really sure how to improve. I guess I just have to grind it out some more.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
When it comes to solving patterns, it's more about one's mindset and being conscious of it than grinding it out. Blindly playing more matches can exacerbate the problem, actually. A solution would be to look at a bunch of replays of matches you lost, and then they'd become super obvious there.
I just went against a Super Plat Guile who started round 1 with an immediate Sonic Boom. So when round 2 started, I kept that in mind and immediately jumped forward with a button. Lo and behold, he threw another one and I got the full punish. He had other predictable patterns, too, like doing a normal flash kick if I reset him in the air, in the corner with a cross-up. The best players out there are acutely aware of all of their opponent's little tendencies, and they exploit that to the fullest. Not doing the same thing in the same scenarios, and not falling for the same traps, is just something one has to tell themselves when they're put into that position.
It's habits. The more you play without questioning them, the more you'll fall for those auto-pilot scenarios. I need to iron those out, myself.
So how essential are the flash kick combos to learning Guile? I'm thinking about picking him up but I just don't see how I'm going to get to the point where I can do the st. mp starter combos into flash kick consistently without getting blocked and losing half health.
Cammy's easy combos, damage, and anti-airs have really spoiled the hell out of me. Having trouble finding another character that I like who has all these. If only she had an overhead or tkcs again lol.
Cammy's easy combos, damage, and anti-airs have really spoiled the hell out of me. Having trouble finding another character that I like who has all these. If only she had an overhead or tkcs again lol.