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Super Mario Sunshine....Gaf opinion!
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I love how they take a tropical getaway setting and manage to make plenty of variety in the different levels. Will always be one of my favorite Mario settings. And yeah, the game is hard, unfairly so in some spots, though I do think it's a good challenge for the most part. I don't think the controls are as bad as a lot of people say.
i'll just copy this post i made from a couple weeks ago:
(there's a link at the end to a long post explaining sunshine in detail)
There's plently of people that talk about sunshine like if it simply sucked, and didn't have any redeeming qualities.
When you read posts saying that it was the best 3d mario, or that it was very fun, don't you think that there must have been something truly great about it?
People rapidly look down on sunshine just because, overall, it was subpar, but that doesn't mean that some aspects of it weren't above average.
People who enjoy it, are perfectly aware of it flaws, and play to the game's strengths.
This reminds me of a long post that i once wrote about this on sunshine, so that people could understand:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179014027&postcount=313
(there's a link at the end to a long post explaining sunshine in detail)
There's plently of people that talk about sunshine like if it simply sucked, and didn't have any redeeming qualities.
When you read posts saying that it was the best 3d mario, or that it was very fun, don't you think that there must have been something truly great about it?
People rapidly look down on sunshine just because, overall, it was subpar, but that doesn't mean that some aspects of it weren't above average.
People who enjoy it, are perfectly aware of it flaws, and play to the game's strengths.
This reminds me of a long post that i once wrote about this on sunshine, so that people could understand:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179014027&postcount=313
Rhomega Beta
Member
Underrated. People complain about using a tropical atmosphere for every level, but that's why I love it.
IrishNinja
Member
it's a solid mario game that never escapes the huge shadow 64 cast
i never got over wanting more varied areas like 64 so i found it boring, but others didn't
i never got over wanting more varied areas like 64 so i found it boring, but others didn't
KeyBladerXIII
Member
The best. Defino felt alive and warm and joyful in a way that Galaxy didnt live up to for me. While Galaxy may have the better gameplay, Sunshine is the game that makes me smile more.
The music is fantastic too.
Oh, and Piantas are the best.
The music is fantastic too.
Oh, and Piantas are the best.
inpHilltr8r
Member
Annoying camera that needed to be constantly baby-sat. Weird intro movie. Other than that, pretty good. Would like to give it another shot with a better camera, and a better controller. I hated the GC controller, specifically the triggers. Bad shape, bad motion. I had to stop playing due to induced joint pain.
It's true I don't even hate it like it did anything wrong.
My comments are backhanded because the game isn't even trying that hard even.
It's just a bad forgettable Mario game with designs hampered by new gimmicks, if you prefer circlejerk too bad it's a discussion thread asking about opinions not asking people to gush about it.
The game is full of problems that were easily avoidable too, they showed as much in successive games.
I was there when the game was released and followed the game prerelease.
Of its stated goal, it failed to recapture what made Mario 64 special, it failed to capture what made 2D Mario special too (something no 3D Mario ever managed too).
The great thing about Galaxy is how well they managed to streamline all the BS you usually see in these kinds of games (it brings other issues too).
By going full on changing the course design for each star they avoided one of the pitfalls of Sunshine with forcing the player to go through the same level multiple times in a level that is even less thought out for traversal than Mario 64 was (because Mario 64 was more abstract so they could get away with complex nonsensical obstacles).
And then we can talk about the blue coins... I want to see people defending that shit.
This is accurate.
So I know that this sentiment isn't super common, but I hated Mario 64. It felt aimless and unfocused and I was just not having it.
Now I haven't played it, or Sunshine in a long time. So I can't say whether it was that I had changed or that Sunshine was a very different animal. But I love Sunshine, it's probably still my favorite of the 3D Mario games. I still wish/hope for a remaster or the GC virtual console to become a reality so I can revisit it.
Now I haven't played it, or Sunshine in a long time. So I can't say whether it was that I had changed or that Sunshine was a very different animal. But I love Sunshine, it's probably still my favorite of the 3D Mario games. I still wish/hope for a remaster or the GC virtual console to become a reality so I can revisit it.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
I love it. For me is the best 3d mario after mario 64. I would love to play a hd version or in the vc in the switch.
Omega Kirby
Member
Its a good game but worst 3D mario
It's easily the worst 3D Mario—Nintendo took the wrong lessons from Super Mario 64 and built on them instead of throwing those failed experiments away—but it also had some really interesting glimmers of inspiration that would eventually expand into the path of greatness 3D Mario followed for years after.
Plus, about half of it is still fun to play.
I'm a little scared for Odyssey tbh; it looks like a huge backtrack in a number of ways. But we'll see how it turns out.
Plus, about half of it is still fun to play.
I'm a little scared for Odyssey tbh; it looks like a huge backtrack in a number of ways. But we'll see how it turns out.
TheMadMan007
Member
It's easily the worst mainline Mario game other than New Super Mario Bros. Series (Ds, Wii, Wii U). It takes everything amazing about Mario 64 and tosses it in the trash. From the absolutely godawful voice acting, to the garbage controls to the boring same uninspired levels... it's bad. Period. It's not opinion, it's fact. Anyone who has fond memories of it are the 20 something's who grew up with it as their main first. It's a bad game.
synchronicity
Member
Sunshine is one of my all-time favorites, Mario or otherwise. Such an amazing game with some incredible levels and the traversal was just sublime. And of course, the setting/theme were so pleasant.
I never understood the hate, and judging from gaf threads I've seen, it seems to be pretty polarizing - maybe a slightly larger percentage didn't like it, but it seems there's plenty of love for it, and deservedly so imo.
I found it incredibly fun from start to finish.
I never understood the hate, and judging from gaf threads I've seen, it seems to be pretty polarizing - maybe a slightly larger percentage didn't like it, but it seems there's plenty of love for it, and deservedly so imo.
I found it incredibly fun from start to finish.
As long as you don't try to 100% it, there's some fun to be had there. I loved the FLUDDless stages in particular. But the camera makes the game very difficult to play these days for me (defaults to inverted and you can't change it) and there are clear signs that it was rushed out the door.
To be clear there is nothing apathetic about multiple long posts full of what I would refer to as hyperbole and backhanded comments to others. That is not apathy.
I don't think it failed to capture what made 64 great, on top of successfully capturing its own unique design. Also blue coins is an easy defense depending on how much you like platformers that do collecting similar to Rare's entries.
chrisPjelly
Member
It's the first game I got with my first console... and I fucking hate it. The levels are unreasonably frustrating (PACHINKO), and the blue coins are abysmal padding. I did like the cutscenes, contrary to most people, and I thought the paint gimmick was a satisfying feature that no game managed to replicate (until Splatoon).
Forerunner
Member
It's the weakest 3D Mario, but it's still a great game.
DarkConfidant
Member
Basically these points.
I only enjoyed the side/hidden/abstract levels.
I plan to replay and finish it next year
Stallion Dan
Member
Load of crap. The FLUDD gimmick did not belong, plus it was generally shitty anyway.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
It's the worst 3D Mario game and probably the worst mainline console Mario game. But it tried to do something interesting and different and for better or worse it did. Overall I like the game even though it has it's flaws. It's definitely not bad.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
I love it. The summer vibe is too good so I can overlook the downsides. It's not like it's a bad game anyway.
CharlesDangus
Member
Movement
Sunshine has the best movement, feel, and physics of the entire 3D Mario series (I have not played 3D World). It is Mario 64 refined, with the rough edges sanded off in this respect. Playing all of the 3D Marios around the same time, swapping back and forth, its really easy to tell how much Galaxy was slowed down in this respect for better or worse.
Camera
People constantly shit on Sunshine's camera controls, like it has a uniquely bad camera system among the 3D Marios. It makes me think they really haven't played Mario 64 in a long time and have nostalgia goggles on. There are many moments in Mario 64 where the discrete camera angles offered by the C-buttons just don't cut it. Sunshine is a marked improvement on 64 in the camera department. (I love Jeremy Parish, but his recent Sunshine streams were very frustrating to watch, as he struggled with the camera while singing the praises of Mario 64). That said, there are moments/Shines in Sunshine where a combination of the camera control and level design make for some extreme frustration. It wasn't until Galaxy that I think they fully ironed out camera problems, but Galaxy's level design may have helped. (We'll see if Odyssey has any of Sunshine's camera problems).
Overworld
IMHO, Sunshine had a better, more interesting and fun hub world than Mario 64. This may be based somewhat on my subjective nostalgia. I love playing Sunshine in the summer. I hope there's a Switch port someday so I can play it by the pool. The trajectory of the 3D Mario series has been to whittle away at the hub world/exploratory elements of the game until we get 3D Land/3D World. I loved 3D Land and would have played 3D World but never owned a Wii U (here's hoping for a 3D World/Captain Toad combo pack on Switch!).
Actual Levels
The actual worlds of the game I feel sometimes reach the heights of the worlds in Super Mario 64, but mostly do not. But, from playing some bargain bin/mediocre gamecube 3D platformers via Nintendont lately I'm reminded of how high even the lowest lows of 3D Mario are. Let's not kid ourselves; there are some very unfairly frustrating Shines in this game: Pachinko, Rolling the watermelon down the hill, the river of death where you stand on a leaf, Yoshi boat, roller coaster, etc.
FLUDD
FLUDD is and was very polarizing. The clean-up missions can be tedious and frustrating. Some say always having a jetpack destroys any possibility of challenging platformer design. It's a fair point I suppose, assuming the levels we got in the final game, but I don't think FLUDD is necessarily an insurmountable barrier to the talented devs at Nintendo. I personally did not mind FLUDD and actually quite enjoy it as it adds alot of immediate verticality to the game.
Story
Okay the story was kind of dumb, but at least it was something not totally a carbon copy of other Mario games. The voice acting was very bad, especially Bowser and Bowser Jr.
The game was, and remains unfinished
The blue coins, the extra shines in each world, the small number of worlds in general, it's obvious that this game was rushed out the door to help the flailing GameCube. This video from Did You Know Gaming details some of the cut content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSLL1ILc0&ab_channel=DidYouKnowGaming?
There were many more worlds planned than we got in the final game as well as a train system that would likely take Mario around the island. Having this train system would have gone a long way to make the island feel like a more cohesive place. The portals we got in the final game seem like a lazy copy paste from Mario 64, which especially makes no sense in Sunshine because you can see some of the levels in the distance from Delfino Plaza and even from inside other worlds.
Fixing/Finishing the game
Complete or create the remaining worlds, blue coins now can be used to purchase vacation gear for Mario or upgrade his villa ala Odyssey. Fix or remove the aforementioned frustrating Shines. Reinstate the train system and remove the portals. Polish, polish, polish.
Wrap Up
Sunshine remains one of my, and I imagine many others, favorite Mario game despite its flaws because it is a singular, memorable and ALMOST cohesive adventure. Ive 100%ed all 3D Marios minus 3D World and its really only 64 and Sunshine that stick in my brain. Galaxy 1+2 are phenomenal games, and are together likely the best overall package representing 3D Mario in terms of moment to moment fun, fairness, and challenge. Id recommend Galaxy 1+2 or maybe 3D Land to someone who wanted to jump in to their first 3D Mario. I dont know what it is but something about the way Galaxys levels strung together disconnected spheroids to create its platforming challenges just doesnt have the staying power for me. The whole launch star mechanic is just a cinematic flourish masking the fact that you are really playing a string of (superbly designed) micro-levels. This is why Im so incredibly excited that Nintendo explicitly stated that Odyssey is the next entry in the 64-Sunshine lineage.
Sunshine has the best movement, feel, and physics of the entire 3D Mario series (I have not played 3D World). It is Mario 64 refined, with the rough edges sanded off in this respect. Playing all of the 3D Marios around the same time, swapping back and forth, its really easy to tell how much Galaxy was slowed down in this respect for better or worse.
Camera
People constantly shit on Sunshine's camera controls, like it has a uniquely bad camera system among the 3D Marios. It makes me think they really haven't played Mario 64 in a long time and have nostalgia goggles on. There are many moments in Mario 64 where the discrete camera angles offered by the C-buttons just don't cut it. Sunshine is a marked improvement on 64 in the camera department. (I love Jeremy Parish, but his recent Sunshine streams were very frustrating to watch, as he struggled with the camera while singing the praises of Mario 64). That said, there are moments/Shines in Sunshine where a combination of the camera control and level design make for some extreme frustration. It wasn't until Galaxy that I think they fully ironed out camera problems, but Galaxy's level design may have helped. (We'll see if Odyssey has any of Sunshine's camera problems).
Overworld
IMHO, Sunshine had a better, more interesting and fun hub world than Mario 64. This may be based somewhat on my subjective nostalgia. I love playing Sunshine in the summer. I hope there's a Switch port someday so I can play it by the pool. The trajectory of the 3D Mario series has been to whittle away at the hub world/exploratory elements of the game until we get 3D Land/3D World. I loved 3D Land and would have played 3D World but never owned a Wii U (here's hoping for a 3D World/Captain Toad combo pack on Switch!).
Actual Levels
The actual worlds of the game I feel sometimes reach the heights of the worlds in Super Mario 64, but mostly do not. But, from playing some bargain bin/mediocre gamecube 3D platformers via Nintendont lately I'm reminded of how high even the lowest lows of 3D Mario are. Let's not kid ourselves; there are some very unfairly frustrating Shines in this game: Pachinko, Rolling the watermelon down the hill, the river of death where you stand on a leaf, Yoshi boat, roller coaster, etc.
FLUDD
FLUDD is and was very polarizing. The clean-up missions can be tedious and frustrating. Some say always having a jetpack destroys any possibility of challenging platformer design. It's a fair point I suppose, assuming the levels we got in the final game, but I don't think FLUDD is necessarily an insurmountable barrier to the talented devs at Nintendo. I personally did not mind FLUDD and actually quite enjoy it as it adds alot of immediate verticality to the game.
Story
Okay the story was kind of dumb, but at least it was something not totally a carbon copy of other Mario games. The voice acting was very bad, especially Bowser and Bowser Jr.
The game was, and remains unfinished
The blue coins, the extra shines in each world, the small number of worlds in general, it's obvious that this game was rushed out the door to help the flailing GameCube. This video from Did You Know Gaming details some of the cut content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSLL1ILc0&ab_channel=DidYouKnowGaming?
There were many more worlds planned than we got in the final game as well as a train system that would likely take Mario around the island. Having this train system would have gone a long way to make the island feel like a more cohesive place. The portals we got in the final game seem like a lazy copy paste from Mario 64, which especially makes no sense in Sunshine because you can see some of the levels in the distance from Delfino Plaza and even from inside other worlds.
Fixing/Finishing the game
Complete or create the remaining worlds, blue coins now can be used to purchase vacation gear for Mario or upgrade his villa ala Odyssey. Fix or remove the aforementioned frustrating Shines. Reinstate the train system and remove the portals. Polish, polish, polish.
Wrap Up
Sunshine remains one of my, and I imagine many others, favorite Mario game despite its flaws because it is a singular, memorable and ALMOST cohesive adventure. Ive 100%ed all 3D Marios minus 3D World and its really only 64 and Sunshine that stick in my brain. Galaxy 1+2 are phenomenal games, and are together likely the best overall package representing 3D Mario in terms of moment to moment fun, fairness, and challenge. Id recommend Galaxy 1+2 or maybe 3D Land to someone who wanted to jump in to their first 3D Mario. I dont know what it is but something about the way Galaxys levels strung together disconnected spheroids to create its platforming challenges just doesnt have the staying power for me. The whole launch star mechanic is just a cinematic flourish masking the fact that you are really playing a string of (superbly designed) micro-levels. This is why Im so incredibly excited that Nintendo explicitly stated that Odyssey is the next entry in the 64-Sunshine lineage.
Has real problems with its camera, mission design, and some of the mechanics don't work as smoothly as they should but it's also one of the most imaginative and enjoyable Mario titles. Probably my favorite 3D Mario to just move around in, Mario is so acrobatic in it. As far as hub worlds go, I have a hard time finding one that's more fun to move around in than Delfino Plaza.
It's bad ("bad") for a Mario game - camera controls were wonky, the water/cleaning gimmick became tiresome quickly, and I felt like there were a bunch of cheap deaths during certain levels (can't think of them now).
That said, it's a beautiful game with a great soundtrack and interesting new characters.
It would have been one of the best platforming games of its generation if it didn't have the Mario name attached.
That said, it's a beautiful game with a great soundtrack and interesting new characters.
It would have been one of the best platforming games of its generation if it didn't have the Mario name attached.
Crankshaft
Member
When Sunshine came out a lot of people told me that the game was bad and to steer clear of it.
Then when I finally played the game I thought it was great. Which made me really question what everyone hated about it. The fact that Mario has a water jet pack? I don't get the hate.
Then when I finally played the game I thought it was great. Which made me really question what everyone hated about it. The fact that Mario has a water jet pack? I don't get the hate.
ThisIsMyDogKyle
Banned
It's fine, it has a LOT of filler especially compared to Galaxy and 64 in the form of blue coins and possibly the 2 worst Mario levels in existence but other than that, it's fine, worse than the other 3D Mario games, but still fine.
Kamek Koopa
Member
Terrible game, should not be revisited.
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