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Switch 2 to have 12gb ram and 2 mics seems so according to new leaks

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Someone on reddit did an interesting analysis about Switch 2 vs Series S based on today's newly revealed details:


Mmmh… less than half is not a small enough difference and GPUs tend to tolerate latency better than CPUs. Lots of work that can be scheduled actually helps to hide latency of other tasks that are waiting for memory.

Not saying that lower latency is not unhelpful, but bandwidth needs to be comparable too. Exaggerating how wide this chip is compared to XSX and PS5 which use GDDR memory too… so mmmh…
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
There was some new (maybe?) info on ResetERA, I guess I can post here but if it's repeat I apologize in advance:

Credit to Poptire



If I have my numbers right, the memory bandwidth should be ~ (7500 * 64 / 8 = 60 GB/s * 2 =) 120 GB/s. So quite a bit less than even base PS4's, let alone the PS4 Pro and Series S. However, Switch 2 is working with more modern architecture and better GPU data compression than any of those systems, and storage speed on par with the Series S & X (dunno how that looks with decompression factored in though, but they should at least be able to do 4.2 GB/s with lossless decompression if the base is 2.1 GB/s (UFS's max bandwidth)).

Although, it's possible they could be using 128-bit DIMM modules. In which case the memory bandwidth would double. However, I doubt Nintendo are going that wide with the memory bus.



The Series S:

-Doesn't have DLSS of any kind
-Is hindered by MS's bloated DX12U APIs (same as Series X, but the S suffers more since it's already weaker)
-Doesn't benefit from 1P who can maximize/squeeze every bit of performance out of it like Nintendo's 1P do with their hardware regularly
-Isn't a hybrid

So yes, what was a problem for Series S isn't really a problem for Switch 2.
Man these home boys even got the dimensions of the system :messenger_loudly_crying:

Unbelievable sleuthing.

I hope DF put out a follow up video testing hypothetical performance now we definitively know the chip, ram and storage set up.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
When did they add this? I know Fortnite works with wired headsets but every other game I used to play required you to use your phone to talk to friends.
IDK, maybe a couple years ago? I was using it to connect BT headphones and speakers to it, right now I don't need it but was pretty useful back in the day. Latency wasn't a problem btw, but AFAIK they limit the numbers of controllers connect at the same time, which doesn't matter since when you play local multiplayer you're not wearing headphones anyway
 

Draugoth

Gold Member
  • Handheld: Right above PS4* before DLSS
  • Docked: Between PS4 Pro* & Xbox Series S* before DLSS with more modern hardware than the former
  • RAM: Slower than PS5 & XSX|S in
    the speed department, but more capacity than XSS. Should have 10.5-11 GB
    of RAM available to games going by the Switch 1's RAM allotment for its
    OS.
  • Storage: UFS 3.1's max speeds should be a hair under XSX|S (2.1 GB/s vs. 2.4 GB/s), still plenty fast even if not maxed out.Lines up with what Digital Foundry &
    NateDrake heard about decompression techniques & fast load times of
    the BotW tech demo (respectively for each source).

Source
 

Davevil

Member
198a98f622d2f352bd66627a61b4ae8c.gif


Two mics ?
 
Nintendo should take 16gb, just to facilitate porting efforts into their system, 12 isn't terrible, but it's not great either. 256Gb internal is neat, I'm still debating on what system to get next, upgrade to PS5 Pro or Switch 2 at launch.
They have to make money on each console sold from day one, and knowing Nintendo they're gonna be aiming to come in at $399 if they can eek it out. Every GB of ram matters.
 
Ideal lineup to me would be:

Q1 '25
-------
Super Switch | 512GB OLED - $399
Super Switch | 256GB LCD - $299

Q3 '28
-------
Super Switch HDR | 1TB OLED - $399
Super Switch | 512GB OLED - $299
The Switch OLED model has a lower profit margin than the OG Switch model, to this day, and that's with it selling at $349 instead of $299. How is a next-gen Switch model going to come in $100 lower than current-gen Switch OLED, and allow Nintendo to be profitable day one? Nintendo doesn't subsidize console sales at a loss in order to sell more units, like PlayStation and Xbox do.
 
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JCK75

Member
IDK, maybe a couple years ago? I was using it to connect BT headphones and speakers to it, right now I don't need it but was pretty useful back in the day. Latency wasn't a problem btw, but AFAIK they limit the numbers of controllers connect at the same time, which doesn't matter since when you play local multiplayer you're not wearing headphones anyway

I have the original switch, they claimed the hardware was not capable to use bluetooth as a headset (2 way communication?)
 

LordOfChaos

Member
If it runs games directly off cartridges still and the storage is mostly saves, system data, and maybe a SSD cache, that's workable if you mostly buy physical. I expect there will still be an SD card to add your own too.

Unless it's going more the way of the other two contemporary consoles and new games require SSD installation?

And this would then be ~ 120GB/s of main memory bandwidth if I math right?

I think this is fine, add modern DLSS upscaling and it's going to be such a visual improvement over the long aging Switch 1
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
The Switch OLED model has a lower profit margin than the OG Switch model, to this day, and that's with it selling at $349 instead of $299. How is a next-gen Switch model going to come in $100 lower than current-gen Switch OLED, and allow Nintendo to be profitable day one? Nintendo doesn't subsidize console sales at a loss in order to sell more units, like PlayStation and Xbox do.
Probably because as tech gets old, it costs more or get way less cost effective than newer tech? IDK if that's a thing but I wouldn't be surprised since factories take less orders for old stuff and I remember Sony saying they only discontinued PS2 due to it being too expensive to produce compared to years before or something within those lines
 
Probably because as tech gets old, it costs more or get way less cost effective than newer tech? IDK if that's a thing but I wouldn't be surprised since factories take less orders for old stuff and I remember Sony saying they only discontinued PS2 due to it being too expensive to produce compared to years before or something within those lines
Yeah, that used to be the way it worked was consoles became cheaper over time as they found ways to manufacture for cheaper. But since COVID and supply chain issues, and component shortages, and freight & shipping costs have skyrocketed, it no longer really gets significantly cheaper over time to manufacture things like it used to. And the Switch OLED margin even last year Nintendo was still reporting they made less money on each unit sold with the OLED, at $50 more, then they did on the OG models that originally launched in 2017.
 
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scydrex

Member
  • Handheld: Right above PS4* before DLSS
  • Docked: Between PS4 Pro* & Xbox Series S* before DLSS with more modern hardware than the former
  • RAM: Slower than PS5 & XSX|S in
    the speed department, but more capacity than XSS. Should have 10.5-11 GB
    of RAM available to games going by the Switch 1's RAM allotment for its
    OS.
  • Storage: UFS 3.1's max speeds should be a hair under XSX|S (2.1 GB/s vs. 2.4 GB/s), still plenty fast even if not maxed out.Lines up with what Digital Foundry &
    NateDrake heard about decompression techniques & fast load times of
    the BotW tech demo (respectively for each source).

Source
So it will be better than the steam deck with a price tag of $400. While not loosing money with each unit or maybe making some profit. Nintendo don't like to lose money with their devices like Sony or MS.
 
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So it will be better than the steam deck with a price tag of $400. While not loosing money with each unit or maybe making some profit. Nintendo don't like to lose money with their devices like Sony or MS.
Yeah. And "better than Steam Deck" might depend on a lot of things, too. Better visual fidelity for higher-end games? Maybe docked, since it doesn't use battery power when connected to a TV. But doesn't Steam Deck have 16GB of RAM? No way Nintendo is putting 16GB of RAM into Switch 2.
 
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boo

Gold Member
12GB sounds nice, that is 4GB higher than I expected. With a higher amount of memory than Xbox Series S, ports should be no problem. As for price, I expect that Nintendo will set the price closer to USD 500 than many expect, due to inflation. My guess is USD 469. Followed by angry threads on neogaf.
 
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Radical_3d

Member
Don't think these are devkits, though they did find some separate devkit entries, but again they're not related to what's been shared today which is retail unit info.

Actually, I'll link this comment from one of the guys that were and are directly involved in looking through all the shipment data for the past several months.


So we’re going to have a 12GB Switch?
Cant Believe Here We Go Again GIF by Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore

Ok, that’s fantastic. But since we can’t have nice things now I want it to be more powerful to take advantage of that.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
  • Handheld: Right above PS4* before DLSS

Source
This is like Asus Ally performance at 25W TDP. That would be pretty incredible to beat the 7840U at 25W using a chip running at 8-12W.

*Edit: I get mixed up with TDP vs total system consumption. OG Switch was 8-12W for total system consumption, meaning the chip itself is probably at 4-6W TDP at most. I was looking at Deck and in GoW 15W TDP = 28W total system power consumption.
 
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Knowing Nintendo will be aiming to come in no higher than $399 at launch, this seems pretty beefy. But I would definitely welcome a headphone jack in the new Pro Controller, if that's on the table. It's absolutely my biggest complaint with the current Switch, other than no achievements.

Maybe they'll do a double SKU launch option like with Wii U and have a 512GB option for $449.

Looking at some of the digikey prices for the components gave me pause. We are talking nearly $150 for just the NAND (RAM and storage) at 250+ units, so let's say $100 a negotiated price for a big customer like Nintendo that is going to order millions. T239 per unit cost probably somewhere in the $70s and then a lot of other smaller cheap parts. Throw in overhead and margin, and that bill of materials may start to weigh in heftier. Nintendo historically likes their margins, they don't sell their systems at a loss - I don't think they'll begin doing so here.

My guess is $399 for the base model to ensure their margin is adequately padded. I wouldn't be surprised if they also launch a $449 or even $499 model with an OLED screen and upgraded storage. Nintendo knows they have an adult audience with cash to spare, and that would still come in under the Steam Deck OLED at $549. I could see Furukawa going for this so long as it's not unintentionally segmenting the market the way the Switch Lite did due to it lacking HDMI output capabilities. It's also why I don't see backwards compatibility being gated behind a more expensive model, I think they want to make it as easy as possible for Switch users to upgrade.
 
Looking at some of the digikey prices for the components gave me pause. We are talking nearly $150 for just the NAND (RAM and storage) at 250+ units, so let's say $100 a negotiated price for a big customer like Nintendo that is going to order millions. T239 per unit cost probably somewhere in the $70s and then a lot of other smaller cheap parts. Throw in overhead and margin, and that bill of materials may start to weigh in heftier. Nintendo historically likes their margins, they don't sell their systems at a loss - I don't think they'll begin doing so here.

My guess is $399 for the base model to ensure their margin is adequately padded. I wouldn't be surprised if they also launch a $449 or even $499 model with an OLED screen and upgraded storage. Nintendo knows they have an adult audience with cash to spare, and that would still come in under the Steam Deck OLED at $549. I could see Furukawa going for this so long as it's not unintentionally segmenting the market the way the Switch Lite did due to it lacking HDMI output capabilities. It's also why I don't see backwards compatibility being gated behind a more expensive model, I think they want to make it as easy as possible for Switch users to upgrade.
Nintendo will play the long game and hold back the $499 OLED for 2026/2027 sell a bunch of early adopters two consoles instead of one 😉

I’m still flying with my launch model OG Switch from March 2017 😂. I’ve intentionally held off for a true Switch Pro/ successor.
 
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FireFly

Member
  • Handheld: Right above PS4* before DLSS
  • Docked: Between PS4 Pro* & Xbox Series S* before DLSS with more modern hardware than the former
  • RAM: Slower than PS5 & XSX|S in
    the speed department, but more capacity than XSS. Should have 10.5-11 GB
    of RAM available to games going by the Switch 1's RAM allotment for its
    OS.
  • Storage: UFS 3.1's max speeds should be a hair under XSX|S (2.1 GB/s vs. 2.4 GB/s), still plenty fast even if not maxed out.Lines up with what Digital Foundry &
    NateDrake heard about decompression techniques & fast load times of
    the BotW tech demo (respectively for each source).

Source
That looks like speculation from a ResetEra poster. As far as I can see the manifest only mentioned the name of the chip (T239) which we already knew, and the big unknowns are the process and TDP rating, and therefore expected clock speeds.
 

tkscz

Member
This is like Asus Ally performance at 25W TDP. That would be pretty incredible to beat the 7840U at 25W using a chip running at 8-12W.

*Edit: I get mixed up with TDP vs total system consumption. OG Switch was 8-12W for total system consumption, meaning the chip itself is probably at 4-6W TDP at most. I was looking at Deck and in GoW 15W TDP = 28W total system power consumption.
x86 vs ARM. Custom version of Ampere vs standard RDNA2/3 cores. The Ally's Z1 extreme is basically just an embedded laptop APU. Sure you can run it down at 15WTDP but the rest of the system will require more.
 
Mmmh… less than half is not a small enough difference and GPUs tend to tolerate latency better than CPUs. Lots of work that can be scheduled actually helps to hide latency of other tasks that are waiting for memory.

Not saying that lower latency is not unhelpful, but bandwidth needs to be comparable too. Exaggerating how wide this chip is compared to XSX and PS5 which use GDDR memory too… so mmmh…

Yeah the bandwidth for the Switch 2 is better than Steam Deck but it's a ways off from even base PS4, let alone PS4 Pro and Series S.

What does benefit Switch 2 compared to those systems though, is it'll have a more modern GPU with better GPU data decompression (specifically for graphics data), and it also benefits from DLSS, which can further help reduce the data size of assets in RAM since upscaling can reconstruct the output to a desired target resolution.

The Steam Deck seems to probably still have the better CPU though, which should come with its own advantages here and there. Especially if Valve can reduce resources for Proton as time goes on.

The Switch OLED model has a lower profit margin than the OG Switch model, to this day, and that's with it selling at $349 instead of $299. How is a next-gen Switch model going to come in $100 lower than current-gen Switch OLED, and allow Nintendo to be profitable day one? Nintendo doesn't subsidize console sales at a loss in order to sell more units, like PlayStation and Xbox do.

They will if initial sales are slow. In fact they did that with the 3DS with a temporary price cut to spur sales after they fell behind post-launch.

But since that won't be the case here, yeah I am finding it hard to picture Switch 2 coming in at anything below $449. Maybe $399 if they want to be aggressive in specific markets like Japan, but in that case I can see them having some strict proof of address/residency to curb on importers buying up stock to resell in foreign markets (would also help with cutting down on scalping).

Yeah. And "better than Steam Deck" might depend on a lot of things, too. Better visual fidelity for higher-end games? Maybe docked, since it doesn't use battery power when connected to a TV. But doesn't Steam Deck have 16GB of RAM? No way Nintendo is putting 16GB of RAM into Switch 2.

It depends on various other things, not just RAM capacity. GPU decompression for example; if Switch 2's GPU can decompress graphics data better than Steam Deck's (and it likely will), then you are getting more mileage out of it's 12 GB than you are out of the Deck's 16 GB, per GB. It might be enough to help Switch 2's RAM capacity "feel" more like 14 GB in many cases.

Then you have respective OS overheads and what differences will likely be between them. Steam Deck also needs to run a translation layer for Proton; Switch 2 doesn't have to do anything like that, so that's a benefit to total system resources. Also don't forget DLSS and what part that can help in smartly designed games minimizing their RAM footprint in a Switch 2 vs. a Steam Deck.

Like, I'm definitely not saying the Steam Deck has zero advantages. It could still have the better CPU between the two for example (how much better I don't know, but at least on paper it seems still slightly better). But you remember what other console had a better CPU way back against a Nintendo one? The SEGA Genesis. And sometimes that CPU advantage did help (particularly early on). However with various customizations it was ultimately a wash due to SNES's feature set.

That's more or less how I see the Steam Deck (Genesis) and Switch 2 (Super NES). Even the differences in release dates kind of match up 😂

If it runs games directly off cartridges still and the storage is mostly saves, system data, and maybe a SSD cache, that's workable if you mostly buy physical. I expect there will still be an SD card to add your own too.

Unless it's going more the way of the other two contemporary consoles and new games require SSD installation?

And this would then be ~ 120GB/s of main memory bandwidth if I math right?

I think this is fine, add modern DLSS upscaling and it's going to be such a visual improvement over the long aging Switch 1

Nah. Physical is too important for Nintendo and by having the games run off the carts they can justify the prices holding as long as they do (in addition to just the regular demand). That type of physicality is part of the allure in their games to the fanbase, in being able to not drop prices as often years after the game launches. Customers inherently perceive them as being of more worth due to the cartridges.

That plus, if it's already going to be BC with Switch carts, might as well have Switch 2 carts as well. Maybe they have partial install requirements to internal storage but other data would read from the cart? That's assuming cartridge speeds aren't fast enough on their own (they'll inherently be slower than UFS 3.1 but I don't see why the cart and internal storage can't use the data decompression simultaneously, and share the bandwidth reserved for storage & carts).
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
12GB is ample.

Looking forward to see what this beast can do. Hoping for a portable Series S in terms of raw power.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Switch 2 will be an immediate purchase for many the specs is “getting into the weeds” now we’re learning switch 2 will be powerful.
 
If it's 12Gigs than it would be on 192bit or 96bit bus. And there is no way that Nintendo would go with 192bit on a handheld. So with 96bit bus it would be 90Gb/s of bandwidth or 3x of normal Switch.
 
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SHA

Member
12gb to find princess Peach, I could literally feel every giga byte by Nintendo's metrics, that's genuine stuff we are talking about.
 

Audiophile

Member
If it's 12Gigs than it would be on 192bit or 96bit bus. And there is no way that Nintendo would go with 192bit on a handheld. So with 96bit bus it would be 90Gb/s of bandwidth or 3x of normal Switch.
48Gb (6GB) modules are available on an x64/64-Bit bus, so you could have 12GB on a 128-Bit bus.

LPDDR is a lot more flexible and available in all kinds of configs:

 
256gb is messed up. Assuming theres a second nvme slot it would have been nice to do 1tb + 1tb. Now ill have to wait for a sale on 2tb.
 

simpatico

Member
12GB is more than enough for a handheld console. I believe we'll have at least 10.5GB for games.

Great to know they went with 120GB/s. That's enough for the 8xA78C and 3~4 teraflops when docked.
Haven’t you heard? Nintendo is wrong. Their billions were earned erroneously and therefore stolen. You see, they do not make powerful consoles. The games are ugly and garish. With immature, childlike gameplay. They have no honor as a gaming company. Each one of their customers is an utter fool for buying such a machine. Man they really make my blood boil. Do you see any third personal cinematic character action games? How do you explain that, pray tell? For the same money you can almost afford an ASUS ROG ALLY. I think you’d agree the specs are far more cromulent, and thanks to Sony’s desperate porting, there are some third person cinematic character action games available.
 
12GB might cause issues with third party titles down the road. but for Nintendo 1st party titles it will more than enough. I mean look what they were able to produce with only 4GB's on hand.

At the end of the day its going to be a huge improvement over the current Switch in every area.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
It sounds good, like they're future-proofing their hardware for the next seven to eight years of mobile / handheld gaming targeting performance and image quality along the lines of something like the PS4.

I am not sure what to make of only 256 GB of storage in 2024/2025. Maybe they'll be relying heavily upon machine learning upscale tech to improve image quality and performance while still targeting sub-to-HD native resolutions.
 
  • Handheld: Right above PS4* before DLSS
  • Docked: Between PS4 Pro* & Xbox Series S* before DLSS with more modern hardware than the former
  • RAM: Slower than PS5 & XSX|S in
    the speed department, but more capacity than XSS. Should have 10.5-11 GB
    of RAM available to games going by the Switch 1's RAM allotment for its
    OS.
  • Storage: UFS 3.1's max speeds should be a hair under XSX|S (2.1 GB/s vs. 2.4 GB/s), still plenty fast even if not maxed out.Lines up with what Digital Foundry &
    NateDrake heard about decompression techniques & fast load times of
    the BotW tech demo (respectively for each source).

Source
I’d take all of this with a big grain of salt. Nintendo will not hesitate to throttle back on specs and clock speeds in order to hit battery life targets.
 
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THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
The Switch OLED model has a lower profit margin than the OG Switch model, to this day, and that's with it selling at $349 instead of $299. How is a next-gen Switch model going to come in $100 lower than current-gen Switch OLED, and allow Nintendo to be profitable day one? Nintendo doesn't subsidize console sales at a loss in order to sell more units, like PlayStation and Xbox do.

What makes you think this, articles from Bloomberg indicated $10 per unit difference.
Even if that number is off, about zero chance that 7" screen in volume cost Nintendo over $50 more than the lcd. They would have never released it.
 
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