Wooooooooooooooooooooow...that's insane.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Wooooooooooooooooooooow...that's insane.
GinoFelino
Member
When I was looking for impressions of the E6 over a year ago some guy was on a quest to find an acceptable panel.
Well over a year later he's still on his quest to find a TV he'll actually keep lmao.
Temeculan3000
Member
I'm convinced the people obsessed with the best headphones, best home theater system, best image quality, best PC overclocking benchmarks, best (insert technology here). Are just technophiles who don't actually enjoy music, movies, or video games that much. They just like those things inasmuch as they are the best way to show off their tech gear.
Headphone purists recommend music NOT based on what they like to listen to, but by what CDs are mixed the best and sound good on their headphones. Am I to believe every single person who has expensive headphones is Steely Dan fan #1?
I always see people showing off their home theater with movies like Angry Birds or Calibration discs, not actual great films.
And I been to many a LAN party where guys with the craziest PC rigs are terrible at video games and pretty much just play them because they are the best thing to show off how powerful their PC is.
If the point was to increase enjoyment of things like music, movies, and video games then I think many of those people have lost sight of that and are simply obsessed with having the best things.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
That's really bad, because it's starting to look like LG doesn't see it as an issue. Instead of acknowledging the issue for the B6 and fixing it they actually bring it over to newer models too, wow.
Luckily we can fix it somewhat by upping the game brightness or as people here have said enabling dynamic contrast but it's not how it should be. Why the hell can't they just get HDR Game mode to be just as bright as HDR Bright and Vivid?
Someone had a theory that they dimmed game mode bc they are being conservative in preventing burn in.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Yeah, I think some of y'all's knowledge of TVs exceeds anything I'd like to personally have.
I value y'all's opinions anyways, but man, I just want a 4K/HDR TV, the meaning of the details escapes me 😂
I value y'all's opinions anyways, but man, I just want a 4K/HDR TV, the meaning of the details escapes me 😂
RedlineRonin
Member
To be clear, AVS can be an incredible place and I don't mean to shit on an entire website.
I've been chatting back and forth with someone who has my exact same issue in the UK with their Anthem and C7, so it's been comforting to touch base with someone who's working with the exact same CS reps.
Likewise, I've been troubleshooting an Anthem issue in an Anthem thread there with a guy who literally worked for Dolby for 25 years and was there when they created Dolby Digital as a standard.
It's a great place to get loads of information and interact with people working directly in the industry.
It can just be a place that can, on occasion, lean towards obsessive =)
I've been chatting back and forth with someone who has my exact same issue in the UK with their Anthem and C7, so it's been comforting to touch base with someone who's working with the exact same CS reps.
Likewise, I've been troubleshooting an Anthem issue in an Anthem thread there with a guy who literally worked for Dolby for 25 years and was there when they created Dolby Digital as a standard.
It's a great place to get loads of information and interact with people working directly in the industry.
It can just be a place that can, on occasion, lean towards obsessive =)
PsihoPerihelion
Member
It may be a dumb thing to say, but based on RTINGS comparisons, I like better how the KS8000 looks compared to the 900e.
KS8000
X900E
SnowDrops
Member
I don't know where else to ask this. (Sorry if I steal your time here)
Has anyone tried to hook up an LG 40UB800V-ZA 4K TV to his PC? I tried to do so via HDMI cable and all I ever got was either 4K at 30Hz at Full RGB or 4K60Hz via Nvidias trickery with 4.0.0. Color Compression.
So I did some research today and the TV should be cabable of HDMI 2.0 (4k60Hz over HDMI) but seams like my original Titan X can't, atleast not with my TV. I read on the internet that my TV is actually capable of 4.4.4. Chroma HDMI 2.0 Input but I have no clue why my GPU won't let me send this out. Even tho the TitanX should have an HDMI 2.0 Output?
So I got curious and tried to use a DP to HDMI adapter, guess what, now my PC won't even show 4K Resolution as an option anymore, it ends at 1080p. What is going on here? Do I need another adapter? What am I missing? Does anybody have suggestions for me to try out?
Has anyone tried to hook up an LG 40UB800V-ZA 4K TV to his PC? I tried to do so via HDMI cable and all I ever got was either 4K at 30Hz at Full RGB or 4K60Hz via Nvidias trickery with 4.0.0. Color Compression.
So I did some research today and the TV should be cabable of HDMI 2.0 (4k60Hz over HDMI) but seams like my original Titan X can't, atleast not with my TV. I read on the internet that my TV is actually capable of 4.4.4. Chroma HDMI 2.0 Input but I have no clue why my GPU won't let me send this out. Even tho the TitanX should have an HDMI 2.0 Output?
So I got curious and tried to use a DP to HDMI adapter, guess what, now my PC won't even show 4K Resolution as an option anymore, it ends at 1080p. What is going on here? Do I need another adapter? What am I missing? Does anybody have suggestions for me to try out?
PsihoPerihelion
Member
I do, so that's why is a top priority 😔 I don't mind trading things like contrast or brightness if the screen has great motion response.
ScaryShark
Banned
Fucking incredible deal.
I frequent AVS but try to be careful not to fall down the rabbit hole.
Back in the early days of HD when rear projection TVs came out of the box looking like dogshit, I flew someone from the east coast to the midwest to calibrate my display. It was worth every penny, but then some shit happened and I had to fly someone from San Franscisco to the midwest to repair and re-calibrate it a couple years later.
Again it was worth it, but I've tried to take a step back. Fortunately quality ISF calibrators and become much more common, and TVs are much easier to work on personally as well.
Or tinfoil hat... LG has internally recognized the attention burn-in has gotten and the dim HDR game mode is a feature.
Whoops, is it possible to multi-quote after the fact without leaving an orphan post?
GinoFelino
Member
I see your posts over on AVForums (not AVS) sometimes
Always a little weird to see GAF names pop up on random other forums
That's where the guy with the panel OCD is, right? Or well, it's basically everyone over there
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Nicholars?
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Not really a bad theory to be honest. But man, it's dimmed quite badly and it shouldn't be necessary like this. Would LG be that scared about burn in then? Maybe they are afraid HUDs will become too bright and burn in.
RedlineRonin
Member
Any issues with the 203? About to put my BDP 83 on Amazon to sell and then pick up the 203.
BradleyLove
Member
So far I've had my Sony A1 OLED for a week. I've done a lot of gaming on it and thus far I've not seen even the slightest bit of IR. Happy days.
It's the first series of UHD players, so there are teeth cutting problems. There have been some issues with disks needing to be cleaned periodically, even out of the box. Things can be a bit sensitive, plus there are periodic firmware updates for disk compatibility. There have been issues with the occasional piece of gear (receivers, etc) that get ironed out. HDMI IN is a bit janky with some cable boxes and it doesn't yet support HDR. The player has no apps and probably never will.
If none of that bothers you, and you have a newish display with HDR then it's a great machine. If you are going to use a 4k display that doesn't support HDR and you want to use the expanded color space, then there are some other considerations.
RedlineRonin
Member
Good info.
It'll be going to a C7 by way of an Anthem AVM 60 (which Anthem is in the process of (somewhat haphazardly) updating to support Dolby Vision) and I wouldn't use the HDMI in, so no issues there.
I believe it's also one of the few players to currently output DV correct? No apps isn't a hangup (though it would be nice).
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Well if Sony can do that I sure hope LG can improve on that too in the future. This is probably not something firmware updates can improve right?
Depends. I'm sure they could add some kind of auto-pixel-shift that your eyes can't detect via firmware.
RedlineRonin
Member
Are there not pixel orbiters on X6 series OLEDs?
I believe there are but folks are still getting IR and to a lesser extent, burn in. In Kyoufus case, I think he turned his off.
I think you should be good, but I'm not familiar with the Anthem. Maybe check with Oppo directly about that receiver. They are unusually helpful most times. In terms of apps, they'd like to add them but it's up to the Amazon's, Vudu's, and Netflix's of the world to decide it's worth developing and supporting apps for thousands of users when they can slap them on Roku or a cheap Sony Blu player and hit millions of users.
The disk problems haven't been an issue for the most part. The super helpful people on AVS that beta test feel like there are some disks that come from the factory with a bit of a film on them from production. A wipe down fixes issues for a lot of edge cases. I haven't personally experienced this, aside from a couple of the highest density disks like Deepwater Horizon, which needed a firmware update to fix some audio dropouts when changing layers.
Yeah it already has DV and works fine with my E6. I love mine. Order it from Oppo and I think you get a 30 day money back period and they'll often extend that to 60 or more if you're having issues that they're trying to fix. They ship double boxed and such, unless you are close by in CA and can simply pick it up.
Caayn
Member
Have something bright static and then put on a grey background
Even my 2015 model doesn't really suffer from IR during normal use, incl gaming with static huds. Only when I put up a grey background, such as the game library on XB1, after having watched other content does it become apparent.Well, they use the same panel. So you'd assume that sensitivity to burn-in/IR is the same. The IR test by rtings doesn't show much differences other than what wouldn't call within the margin of error and panel differences.
RedlineRonin
Member
Good to know. Always curious for everyone's impressions. Thanks.
None for me personally. I bought it to be a pure blu-ray player and it does an amazing job.
Just watched a few of the troublesome discs I had with the UP970, and they all played flawlessly on the 203. UP970 literally feels like a piece of junk when having them side by side.
Weevilone mentioned all of the known big issues. Like you, I don't use the HDMI in, but if you keep on the AVSForum, apparently it's on their list of things to keep working on.
I ordered mine from Crutchfield for the 60 day return policy and free shipping. I'm also in the midwest, and it probably reached my home quicker than shipping from Oppo directly. Crutchfield double boxes it.
broncobuster
Banned
This is a silly question, but is there plastic film on the LG C7?
Traxtech
Member
Got my first bit of image retention last night playing hellblade on my B6 OLED.
I got sidetracked on the pause menu while i was doing other things for a few hours, and came back to a lovely line across the top of my screen. It was still partially there this morning so im doing a 1 hour clear noise thingie from the menu. Fingers crossed
I got sidetracked on the pause menu while i was doing other things for a few hours, and came back to a lovely line across the top of my screen. It was still partially there this morning so im doing a 1 hour clear noise thingie from the menu. Fingers crossed
Saw the 940E at Best Buy today. It's still on my list for consideration.
The sales guy was willing to let an LG Signature OLED77G6P display model go for $9K (77 inches!). I didn't get a chance to examine it for burn in or anything though, maybe next I'll check. OLED is still mostly off my list, but ... that is tempting.
The sales guy was willing to let an LG Signature OLED77G6P display model go for $9K (77 inches!). I didn't get a chance to examine it for burn in or anything though, maybe next I'll check. OLED is still mostly off my list, but ... that is tempting.
That's good to know about Crutchfield. I've been cashing in credit card rewards for gift cards. It'll be a pain to order, but have about $1500 so far and I'll use it to replace the main family TV at some point. Not super critical to use rewards for that, but realized I get about 20% extra out of them when used there and TV is on the horizon.
RedAssedApe
Banned
is amazon video hdr10 supposed to be this dark? trying to watch manchester by the sea but seems like everything black is crushed. i knew this was going to be a dark film going in but this is ridiculous
tcl 55p605
tcl 55p605
jellies_two
Member
black and white crush in 2017 OLED c7
---------------------------------------------
So I played Dead Nation on ps4 pro and its a good game to pick problems with dark areas.
I can't get it looking right with RGB.. with RGB enabled (TV deep color set to yes and PS4 set to auto) the _calibration_ page of the game shows 8 dark squares and 8 light squares. The first 3 dark squares are all indistinguishable pretty much, and the 3 most white squares are all indistinguishable.
If I force PS4 pro to YUV420 mode -- or turn off deep color on the LG which achieves the same thing - then everything looks correct, each square is different.
So why are all the blacks crushed in RGB 4k and all the whites as well?
it makes the game unplayable pretty much..
This is nothing to do with HDR, there is no HDR in Dead Nation.
(phone is deceptive, but boxed areas look same, can see different whites outside).
---------------------------------------------
So I played Dead Nation on ps4 pro and its a good game to pick problems with dark areas.
I can't get it looking right with RGB.. with RGB enabled (TV deep color set to yes and PS4 set to auto) the _calibration_ page of the game shows 8 dark squares and 8 light squares. The first 3 dark squares are all indistinguishable pretty much, and the 3 most white squares are all indistinguishable.
If I force PS4 pro to YUV420 mode -- or turn off deep color on the LG which achieves the same thing - then everything looks correct, each square is different.
So why are all the blacks crushed in RGB 4k and all the whites as well?
it makes the game unplayable pretty much..
This is nothing to do with HDR, there is no HDR in Dead Nation.
(phone is deceptive, but boxed areas look same, can see different whites outside).
Solid Shammy
Banned
I've been HDR gaming on my C6 this past year without any burn-in issues. I'm not accepting that as an excuse. My main reason for purchasing this set was the HDR game mode, to me right now this purchase has been made useless. Also, I'm not enabling dynamic contrast. It buggers up the gamma in dark scenes, destroys shadow detail in bright scenes, and the fluctuating display really irritates me when going from dark to bright scenes constantly. It ain't a damn fix for LG's unnecessary update. HDR game mode used to be slightly brighter than standard before, this is a damn disgrace, and I'm losing hope the longer I wait for them to fix it. We're just a minority that isn't worth the cost of fixing.
Have you switched between black levels of the PS4?
jellies_two
Member
RoadHazard
Gold Member
black and white crush in 2017 OLED c7
---------------------------------------------
So I played Dead Nation on ps4 pro and its a good game to pick problems with dark areas.
I can't get it looking right with RGB.. with RGB enabled (TV deep color set to yes and PS4 set to auto) the _calibration_ page of the game shows 8 dark squares and 8 light squares. The first 3 dark squares are all indistinguishable pretty much, and the 3 most white squares are all indistinguishable.
If I force PS4 pro to YUV420 mode -- or turn off deep color on the LG which achieves the same thing - then everything looks correct, each square is different.
So why are all the blacks crushed in RGB 4k and all the whites as well?
it makes the game unplayable pretty much..
This is nothing to do with HDR, there is no HDR in Dead Nation.
(phone is deceptive, but boxed areas look same, can see different whites outside).
Aren't you supposed to keep RGB Range at Limited even with HDR TVs? No? I'm confused.
What you're seeing here looks exactly like you'd see when enabling RGB Full on a TV that doesn't support it.
EDIT: Maybe this isn't even what we're talking about.
I Think i remember Auto Setting being Kind of bad. Give it a try
jellies_two
Member
Will muck around with ps4 settings in a few hours and report. There isn't anything on the LG tv to change: if I disable hdmi deep color then I get yuv420 which is fine but no RGB support
Caayn
Member
Have you tried adjusting the brightness and contrast settings on the TV? Make sure to have the RGB range set the either limited or full, auto can cause mismatches.
Also try a different source. My the browser on my XB1s causes black crush (don't know if this is still the case or if MS has finally fixed it) whereas a blu-ray on the same XB1s doesn't.
Most content is more in line with RGB limited than RGB full, even HDR content. The YUV/YCbCr colourspace used when transmitting >8bit content at 4K over HDMI technically doesn't have a limited or full counterpart. If you were to compare it to RGB the YUV/YCbCr colour space could be classed as limited, but the TV should automatically switch between it if the source is correctly transmitting YUV/YCbCr and RGB depending on the content.
For example:
8bit:
YUV/YCbCr - (Y) 16-235 / (UV/CbCr) 16-240
RGB limited - 16-235
RGB full - 0-255
10bit:
YUV/YCbCr - (Y) 64-940/ (UV/CbCr) 960 <- When using HDR10 at 4K, this is what you'll be using due to bandwidth limitations of HDMI 2.0.
RGB limited - 64-940
RGB full - 0-1023
TV broadcasts, UHD-BD and BD use the YUV/YCbCr colour space with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to save on storage capacity and bandwidth. (I think Netflix and Youtube as well, but not too sure about that)
10-bit YUV420 is the standard for HDR10. Only games are using anything different. And I have seen everything from 10 to 12-bit YUV 420 and 422 outputting from the Pro during HDR gaming. It is a mess.
Caayn
Member
I think the 10/12bit and 420/422 you see on the PS4 Pro is down to a weird thing in the HDMI 2.0 spec. Where 60Hz 4:2:2 is allowed to have 12bit depth but not 10bit.
HDMI 2.1 can't come soon enough.
Thats chart is legit. I also get 8-bit 444 RGB full video level when playing SDR games at 4K.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Doesn't PS4 trigger a automatic dimmer after a few minutes? Xbox One does this and I would assume PS4 too? If the screen dims I don't think IR should be happening anymore or is a screen dimmer not a guarantee that IR won't happen? Not sure anymore now.
jellies_two
Member
Quoting myself: the problem was fixed by setting the PS4 Pro RGB range to LIMITED.
On RGB Range Automatic or Full and HDMI Ultra Deep Color enabled on the LG, things don't work right. The blacks and whites are crushed. The PS4 is told it can send full RGB but the LG only takes Limited.
Conclusion: If you want RGB, enable HDMI Ultra Deep color on the LG
but do NOT enable Automatic for RGB range on the PS4 pro.
Ultra HDMI Deep Color off -- PS4 pro won't use RGB, all is good
Ultra HDMI Deep Color on - PS4 pro will use RGB but Range must be Limited, not Auto or Full.
HDR Games (irregardless of above) - PS4 pro will switch to YUV420, not RGB, and all is good
Non HDR Games (Either Force YUV420 or use RGB Limited).
I wonder if the bug is with the TV or the PS4?
Note also that with a Sony ultra-hd blu-ray box the LG turns on HDMI Ultra Deep Color for the HDMI port automatically.
But for the PS4 pro the LG doesn't turn it on automatically. Another mis-communication issue.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
I understand your frustration so damn well and I find it unbelievable that it has to take this long. Unless the theory turns out to be true that this is to prevent burn in. But come on, it doesn't have to be this dim.
If not for using dynamic contrast, did you try upping the game brightness? According to another forum that should give very similar results.
But yeah I can't deny that I'm a bit worried as well with my 65B6 and HDR seemingly really becoming a thing for gaming. For a lot of genres a bit of input lag is no biggie so using HDR bright or vivid should be fine but for something like Battlefront 2,CoD,Halo and so on it's gonna be horrible with a input lag that is just too high.
I haven't really tried how had the input lag is with HDR bright and Vivid but I bet it's nowhere near as low as HDR Game mode.