This is good info, thank you! What about the normal PS4? Still Limited + Low Blacks? I got the B6-model.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
This is good info, thank you! What about the normal PS4? Still Limited + Low Blacks? I got the B6-model.
Kudo
Member
Not sure if you and jellies_two know but there is HDMI Black Level setting on the LG which needs to match with your PS4 RGB Range for RGB to look correct in Full Range.
PS4 will try to guess it but most of the time it's wrong so you need to set both manually.
https://youtu.be/nXx9DSuY3hs?&t=282
Full+High is the correct ones you need to use.
I know this, thank you.
Full RPG needs to match High Black and Limited RPG with Low Black. I was just wondering if Limited works better with HDR.
holygeesus
Banned
Normal PS4 works as intended. It is the Pro that is buggy.
RedlineRonin
Member
Are you still referring to the PS4 Pro?
Do you leave resolution and all settings set to "automatic"?
How do you know what you're getting as far as output for color space?
This drives me nuts because when left on auto, i can't find a way to tell on the Pro what it's actually outputting at any given time, and the C7 pretty much says "3840x2160"; not super helpful...
Kudo
Member
I know this, thank you.
I think it does, I remember reading people that use lot of HDR content leave it at Limited+Low.
People more knowledged about this will probably pitch in soon enough.
jellies_two
Member
Another setting? Will check
And how is an average user going to figure this out if they don't notice something is wrong. Or even if they do. I bet most ps4s attached to the lg tvs are setup sub optimal currently.
KharmaPolice
Member
I know this, thank you.
As I already told you earlier in the thread, for HDR on the standard PS4 you need to Full RGB with High Blacks. The combination Limited / Low is buggy and will give you black crush in HDR. If you have Horizon you can pull up the ingame brightness adjust screen and test it out. The black crush is very noticeable.
Kudo
Member
DigitalFoundry seems to recommend YUV420 for HDR, also I do remember reading here that either using Auto or Limited would be good for HDR in RGB
https://youtu.be/ZOJHOyEBVI0?t=110
Thread with lots about this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1310135
KharmaPolice
Member
Standard PS4 doesn't do YUV though. For the Pro a YUV signal with Limited / Low is indeed correct.
b0uncyfr0
Member
Hey guys, first time post in this thread but hoping for some discussion on NV's vsync methods and the best for my scenario.
Long story short - i recently acquired a 46PFL3108H. I noticed it had the typical smooth motion (your typical company specific smoothing effect) and tried it out. Its a 100 Hz Perfect Motion Rate i believe. I was blown away how smooth it was. For comparison i game on an oc'd 1080p 60 fps monitor at 75hz. This felt just as smoother - if not better.
The only problem now is - you guessed it - the input lag.
what would be the best way to maximise this smoothing effect and somehow reduce the input lag in reference to NV methods - adaptive,fastsync,caping at certain frame rates?
Long story short - i recently acquired a 46PFL3108H. I noticed it had the typical smooth motion (your typical company specific smoothing effect) and tried it out. Its a 100 Hz Perfect Motion Rate i believe. I was blown away how smooth it was. For comparison i game on an oc'd 1080p 60 fps monitor at 75hz. This felt just as smoother - if not better.
The only problem now is - you guessed it - the input lag.
what would be the best way to maximise this smoothing effect and somehow reduce the input lag in reference to NV methods - adaptive,fastsync,caping at certain frame rates?
Mr. Wonderful
Member
I think the 10/12bit and 420/422 you see on the PS4 Pro is down to a weird thing in the HDMI 2.0 spec. Where 60Hz 4:2:2 is allowed to have 12bit depth but not 10bit.
HDMI 2.1 can't come soon enough.
It's pretty annoying. I certainly appreciate the jump in bandwidth between HDMI 2.0 and 2.1, but it seems like we've had a purposefully incomplete HDMI spec for UHD since 1.4.
With 2.1's bandwidth, I would be furious if I'm unable to access some new HDMI feature through a software update for the next few years.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Everyone's answer will be: Turn off motion smoothing, you heathen!
holygeesus
Banned
You can tell what it is outputting if you go to video settings and check video output or whatever it's called in there (bottom option). If you are playing an HDR game suspend it (press PS button) then go to video settings and the same option as above and it will tell you the colour space being output and everything else.
I'm confused. That video says YUV 420 is good for TVs that are on HDMI 1.4
Why would someone with a B6 use it?
Kudo
Member
I'm probably more confused than you are.
Nope. It's got a plastic loose covering in the box but no film.
b0uncyfr0
Member
This PMR feature cannot be turned off - I believe its built into the TV and activates at 60 hz regardless.
holygeesus
Banned
Temeculan3000
Member
Traditionally TV sets do not support full RGB, but PC Monitors do. With the LG C7 I believe it does support full RGB, but only when the input mode (icon) is set to PC. However if you enable HDR then I don't think it supports full RGB (4:4:4 because of HDMI bandwidth limitations)
I think you have it figured out, setting RGB to limited on your PS4 and not using PC mode on the TV will result in accurate colors, if you set the input to be PC full RGB should work. For HDR it uses YUV.
Edit: read the post above mine to get YUV422 instead of 420, should be an improvement.
holygeesus
Banned
We need to keep PS4 and PS4 Pro as separate entities as they behave differently (unfortunately)
For the PS4 Pro and the B6/C6/E6 etc you should set your output resolution to '2160p RGB', set black level on your TV to 'Low' set RGB Range (on PS4 Pro) to Limited and leave HDR and Deep Colour to 'Auto'.
This will ensure both HDR and SDR output correctly.
Temeculan3000
Member
My bad I was referring to Pro.
If you only wanted SDR could you set RGB to full and then configure the input as PC for full RGB?
Hahah I have no idea what I'm doing here. Seemed like my PS4 Pro was outputting YUV420, but I changed everything to what holygeesus said above. Picture looks more or less the same when playing Dragon Age: Inquisition, that is... Fairly dark. Probably lots of crushed blacks here.
I can't be arsed to adjust for this game, though. Finishing it soon anyway.
e: not seeing an 'auto' setting for HDR or Deep Color on the B7, though. Latter is either on or off. For the former, well, I'm not actually seeing a HDR toggle anywhere lol. It just turns on automatically when I'm watching HDR content.
I can't be arsed to adjust for this game, though. Finishing it soon anyway.
e: not seeing an 'auto' setting for HDR or Deep Color on the B7, though. Latter is either on or off. For the former, well, I'm not actually seeing a HDR toggle anywhere lol. It just turns on automatically when I'm watching HDR content.
Only in PC mode but no hdr setting works in pc mode currently. Waiting for lg firmware update to fix.
Kudo
Member
Thanks for the clarification.
Will any problems arise if you ouput Full RGB Range and set TV to High Black Levels?
TheBoss1
Member
Maybe a link to the thread about correct RBG settings for TVs and consoles? Let me see if I can find it.
EDIT: Found it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=883355
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Owners of a B6, what settings do you use for Game mode(not HDR) and when not using Game mode what other picture mode do you use and what settings?
I ask this because I haven't yet settled on settings for games that don't offer HDR support and I like to try settings out.
I ask this because I haven't yet settled on settings for games that don't offer HDR support and I like to try settings out.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Cool man!
I've said it before and I'm gonna say it again, I can't wait for the One X to come out because man, on one hand I feel I've bought the 65B6 too early and I'll explain why. Xbox One has plenty of games under 1080p and you better sit like 4 meters or more from the screen otherwise that game will look horrible as in terribly blurry and just not pleasant to look at.
It however is even the case with 1080p games. GTA V for example. I was sitting like 3.5 meters from the screen and it just didn't look as good as it could, certainly not as good as it did on the EC9300. But now that I put the couch like 4 to 4.5 meters from the screen and things start to look good. I don't like the soft look this TV produces for games under 1080p or even at 1080p. I think when I start to see the first 4K games come November a whole new world will open up for me.
I don't regret the purchase, the deal was really good for my country but I've never been a fan of sitting too many meters away from a TV.
Calling out to everyone in this thread - I need your help with something. I'm having some real difficulty with the store I bought a faulty TV on. Could you give your opinion on this?
I'm actually on my third TV from the store as the previous 2 were faulty and this one is also faulty (long story - look back in the thread at my posts and that will fill you in).
I am eagerly expecting my new TV to replace the third faulty one but their finance department has called me up saying I need to pay up to get it. Yet it is the same price as the original that was faulty... Intrigued? Here is the maths:
TV number 1 cost £2500. This was faulty. As they couldn't do a direct replacement (I had to settle for another model) they gave me 10% off the price off the replacement (which was also on sale for £2500) so refunded my card £250. Essentially I get the new set at £2250 thanks to this "gesture of goodwill".
This TV was also faulty so they have replaced it with an identical set worth £2500. That was easy for the store as it is like-for-like.
And that replacement is also faulty (I know, real bad luck). So I elected for another model that also cost £2500. However, the store is claiming as the original purchase price of the TV (that is faulty) was £2250 (as I had a £250 discount) I have to pay the extra £250 for this 4th set.
My argument is: isn't that basically giving me the discount with one hand and then taking it away with the other? Because if I was to accept that, the £250 I will pay to them will cancel out my original £250 discount. Yet the store is adamant that I am asking for a product that is more expensive than the value of the current set.
This has been through their whole finance department and they all disagree with me. Is my maths wrong? Am I not entitled to a set currently worth £2500?
P.S don't worry about the effects of depreciation etc. as that was never mentioned in my conversations with the store.
I'm actually on my third TV from the store as the previous 2 were faulty and this one is also faulty (long story - look back in the thread at my posts and that will fill you in).
I am eagerly expecting my new TV to replace the third faulty one but their finance department has called me up saying I need to pay up to get it. Yet it is the same price as the original that was faulty... Intrigued? Here is the maths:
TV number 1 cost £2500. This was faulty. As they couldn't do a direct replacement (I had to settle for another model) they gave me 10% off the price off the replacement (which was also on sale for £2500) so refunded my card £250. Essentially I get the new set at £2250 thanks to this "gesture of goodwill".
This TV was also faulty so they have replaced it with an identical set worth £2500. That was easy for the store as it is like-for-like.
And that replacement is also faulty (I know, real bad luck). So I elected for another model that also cost £2500. However, the store is claiming as the original purchase price of the TV (that is faulty) was £2250 (as I had a £250 discount) I have to pay the extra £250 for this 4th set.
My argument is: isn't that basically giving me the discount with one hand and then taking it away with the other? Because if I was to accept that, the £250 I will pay to them will cancel out my original £250 discount. Yet the store is adamant that I am asking for a product that is more expensive than the value of the current set.
This has been through their whole finance department and they all disagree with me. Is my maths wrong? Am I not entitled to a set currently worth £2500?
P.S don't worry about the effects of depreciation etc. as that was never mentioned in my conversations with the store.
Sanctuary
Member
AVS has nothing on Head-Fi in terms of voodoo and placebo though. Sure, you'll have those that swim in the Kool-Aid, but it's still more often than not a very helpful forum.
The B6 HDR Game Mode brightness issue is news to me. But I don't even bother with "Game Mode" anyway, since the input lag was shown to be not even 2ms more in just Standard HDR (which looks better anyway) Mode. Similarly with non HDR content. I just use my normal ISF Dark. Since I don't play fighting games on it, the input lag is low enough that it doesn't really interfere. In all picture modes that I use, I have all postprocessing features off.
I agree it's got nothing in terms of voodoo and placebo, but AVS will damn sure get you chasing the uncatchable if you aren't careful.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
sounds like overall they are annoyed at you swapping TVs 3 times and they're gonna hold your feet to the fire.
I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on here, you have only paid 2250 (the discount was on that TV, not permanent to all TVs).
But hey you were in for 2500 originally, so no problem going back to that price point, right?
Temeculan3000
Member
They already gave you a £250 discount, now they are refunding the remaining amount of £2250.
By your logic you would end up with £250 out of thin air.
Think of it this way. You can't buy something on sale, and then return it for the full non-sale price.
I hate to side with the store on this one but the discount was on the original model, not the new one, no?
Kudo
Member
Store is right.
What was wrong with the TVs? Are you just being picky or something actually wrong with them? That's some bad luck, hopefully you can find a working TV soon.
With the way TV's are made these days it's definitely possible to have "bad luck".
I went thru I think 3 in a row at one point. First one was an LED DLP back in the day that had a power supply that you could hear from the adjacent room. It whined like crazy on bright content. The second one was a Pio 720p plasma that had weird dark splotches all over the screen. Then the 5010 (that I still have) released and the one I got had a dim stripe running horizontally all the way across the middle of the screen. It was perfectly centered, cutting the display in half.
And yeah, the retailer wasn't sympathetic by that point, but they were all legit issues.
I went thru I think 3 in a row at one point. First one was an LED DLP back in the day that had a power supply that you could hear from the adjacent room. It whined like crazy on bright content. The second one was a Pio 720p plasma that had weird dark splotches all over the screen. Then the 5010 (that I still have) released and the one I got had a dim stripe running horizontally all the way across the middle of the screen. It was perfectly centered, cutting the display in half.
And yeah, the retailer wasn't sympathetic by that point, but they were all legit issues.
Yep all three of my issues were legitimate.
My first was an OG OLED that kept dropping out when connecting to the ps4. I think this is a known issue but it drove me mad.
The next two have been Sony XE90s that have suffered from a horrible vertical band dead centre on the screen. I posted a picture to the thread a couple of pages back.
I guess my issue here is that if I pay the £250 extra to the store won't that effectively cancel out the original gesture of goodwill? And that gesture was made as I was really inconvenienced by the replacement.
I just cant get my head around whether that should remain persistent onto any new TV up to the value of £2500 or just be on that one TV?
My first was an OG OLED that kept dropping out when connecting to the ps4. I think this is a known issue but it drove me mad.
The next two have been Sony XE90s that have suffered from a horrible vertical band dead centre on the screen. I posted a picture to the thread a couple of pages back.
I guess my issue here is that if I pay the £250 extra to the store won't that effectively cancel out the original gesture of goodwill? And that gesture was made as I was really inconvenienced by the replacement.
I just cant get my head around whether that should remain persistent onto any new TV up to the value of £2500 or just be on that one TV?
Just to clarify, I am not after a refund. I am after a replacement TV from the store only. As such, I would hope the gesture of goodwill would remain persistent across my replacement models.
chromatic9
Member
Macaco84 said the previous 65" TVs had a faint band in the middle. Sounds like he won't be satisfied with quiet a few as they're prone to this type of construction.
Maybe he can try going over 65" display models with a fine tooth comb, find a good one and demand that at a discount rather than ordering what would be perfectly good TVs for most people The shop is going to lose out on delivery and sending them back to be repacked resale.
Have you got the XE9305 yet? How does two XE900 cost £2500 when the XE9305 65" is 2500 and the 65" XE900 are £1800. Reading your other posts sounds like you have two 9305 but you claim its two 900?
Whether or not it should remain persistent from a moral perspective definitely doesn't mean the store will view it this way. They might have had a manufacturer incentive to offer TV #1 at a reduced cost.
Please see my post from before in this thread with a photo of the band. There is nothing faint about a huge vertical line that runs dead centre on the TV. Any sort of FPS game for example I cannot in-see it and it drives me mad.
Don't just assume OCD.
Temeculan3000
Member
I guess I am just viewing them as pretty much the same thing. Return = you get your money back. Replacement = you get a TV equal to the amount of your return value. Any difference would be made up by you.
I do get what you are saying though.
Got a horrible feeling my moral/quasi-mathematical argument wont win against their finance department. Although i will write a letter and see what happens.
In which case what do i do with my £2250? Settle for a tv i dont really want or just buy a cheapo £500 job and wait a couple of years. Agh.
Not exactly a consumer-oriented product either (strictly speaking), but the EIZO ColorEdge PROMINENCE CG3145 shows it will soon be made available for purchase to the general public:
After NAB Show 2017 Tokyo：EIZO、31.1型HDRリファレンスモニター「ColorEdge PROMINENCE CG3145」を展示 | レポート | Macお宝鑑定団 blog（羅針盤）
http://www.macotakara.jp/blog/report/entry-32614.html
chromatic9
Member
You said..
You said this
But now say the OLED was dropping out. Maybe you have two faults.
Following the story you've had 3 sets, an OLED, then two XE900, yet the prices don't match the 65" XE900. The £2500 Sony is the XE9305, the 4th one you said you're going for.
Sorry if it seems like I'm stalking, its just something doesn't add up here. I've been following the XE9005 and XE9305 prices for months, the XE900 wasn't £2500 a few weeks ago, it's been £1500 for the 55" and £1900-2000 for the 65" since June and never been higher than £2300 since the launch.
broncobuster
Banned
The oled did have banding but the dropouts were a bigger issue. And tbh im better educated now than when i first got the oled. I now know there is no such thing as a perfectly uniform screen. But the xe90 band is pretty viscious.
The xe90 was definitely £2500 when i first bought it. It has dropped like a stone since then but was £2500 when first bought. At least from my retailer.