Mister_Bubbles
Member
Yup ¬_¬
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The Beginner's Guide (by Stanley Parable creator) announced, releases on October 1st
- Thread starter TimmiT
- Start date
Yup ¬_¬
I did a bunch of that stuff early on because after The Stanley Parable I wasn't sure if we should 'trust' the narrator. But I never found anything in the game worlds that was hidden or contradictory to the suggestions of the narrator. (Obv. I mean actual things in the game world. Whether or not you think the narrator's interpretation of events is trustworthy is a very different conversation...)
Some thoughts:
Coda's obviously not real. The whole premise wouldn't make much sense. It would mean that Davey had the idea for this game and it's narration and it's story arc, ending with him realising what a shitty thing he did while he had to have had that realisation way sooner in reality because he actually played through all the levels already and already saw the messages at the end, making his emotional outburst at the end completely meaningless because it's completely staged since he obviously made the decision to publish the game and fuck his friend over even after ending the game with him realising why he shouldn't do this an coming to terms with it. It doesn't make any sense inside the game's logic and it makes even less sense if you look at the reality of the situation.
The guy is a Indie superstar. He could ask pretty much anyone about the Coda dude, his whereabouts, whatever. People know each other in this industry. Someone, somewhere would have told him "Hey, dude, fuck off, you are pissing Coda off." along the way
Also, he just would have commited a very real crime by stealing other people's work and selling it as his own. I don't really think spelling any of this out is really necessary because the game never really tries to argue that Coda is a real person instead of a storytelling vehicle, but in light of a few comments I thought I should try to make that clear.
This is a story about Davey and his most private thoughts, his coming-to-terms with his own success and his apparent dependence on external approval of his own work. It's an amazing way to tell that story, but this is in no way about Coda. He could have put a million other characters in his place and we would still get the same message.
The guy is a Indie superstar. He could ask pretty much anyone about the Coda dude, his whereabouts, whatever. People know each other in this industry. Someone, somewhere would have told him "Hey, dude, fuck off, you are pissing Coda off." along the way
Also, he just would have commited a very real crime by stealing other people's work and selling it as his own. I don't really think spelling any of this out is really necessary because the game never really tries to argue that Coda is a real person instead of a storytelling vehicle, but in light of a few comments I thought I should try to make that clear.This is a story about Davey and his most private thoughts, his coming-to-terms with his own success and his apparent dependence on external approval of his own work. It's an amazing way to tell that story, but this is in no way about Coda. He could have put a million other characters in his place and we would still get the same message.
HTVfanatic
Member
No I think you're right the more I think about it.
I think that's what makes the game so powerful. Maybe I got the wrong idea, but thinking that Coda was real up until the Tower really made it hit a whole lot harder when I actually realized that Coda wasn't real.
Read something on Reddit that might or might not have anything to do with the overall meaning. Why did he add the bridge over the maze and give us the code for the bridge? Prior to that he just teleported us or brought us to a place. Its also the first time he added something to "Coda"s game. Like I said I don;t know if there is any significance to it, just thought it could potentially be interesting.
Anyway anyone on the fence about this, BUY IT! Its the first game that really made me think and is actually sticking in my mind. I can see myself thinking and pondering it for quite a while.
There is actually one message from Coda at the end of the game going something like "Did it feel great adding all those lampposts into my games?" Not an exact quote but something along those lines. So that seems to be another example of Davey's manipulation with the game's code to further conform them to his own interpretation of a "good game".
man I have no idea how you come up with some of your theories
The game does so much with very simple ideas and elements, it's just fucking impressive.
Like, I have absolutely no doubt in the facts that a) Coda is fictional and b) Coda is a distinct character from Davey. To me, the game is the other side of The Stanley Parable. Where that game is about "What happens when the game answers", TBG is about "What happened to make you ask in the first place."
Coda was just into making abstract, closed spaces, experimenting with space and mechanics, but Davey wanted it to mean more, because if he could tell others that, he'd feel some sense of validation. So he started making stuff up, connecting dots to try and make up a narrative. And when that wasn't enough, he started messing with the games themselves, first in seemingly innocuous ways, with the cheats, removing the walls and all that. And then, when that wasn't enough, he added the lampposts, to make his narrative that much more impressive.
It's reminded me of a number of conversations we had over the last year or so. Like, we've seen people so desperate for the validation they get from games they're getting violent at any percieved threat. We've seen artists driven out of the medium because they were tired of the stories we made up to explain them.
The game does so much with very simple ideas and elements, it's just fucking impressive.
HTVfanatic
Member
Hmmm, thats interesting. I remember that now, I would love to pick Davey's mind and talk with him. Seems like an interesting person.
hammertomb
Banned
Will i miss out on anything if I play with a controller?
False
Member
Not at all.
Cymbal Head
Banned
I think this is exploring really similar territory to The Stanley Parable, inasmuch as it is very much about the
I will say that the
spoke to me in a very personal and possibly unintentional way. I'm off to have a drink and stare pensively into the fireplace.
relationship of the creator and the audience, the baggage and expectations that each side brings to the transaction, and the frequently unexamined assumptions that underlie it.
I will say that the
housecleaning level
The big question is - who added the dialog sections? "Davey", or Coda? Because those certainly point to a troubled mind beyond someone just experimenting with level design.
HTVfanatic
Member
Isn't that the point of most of those games though? That the player is meant to come up with their own narratives about them? Not saying you're wrong about artists getting driven out because of this, but...
Yes, I agree. Dave has jumped up to the top of my favorite indie developers.
hammertomb
Banned
Thanks. Buying it now
Definetly Coda. Davey even speaks about when and how Coda changed the dialog system. The game with the approaching door asking you to close your eyes is very dependant on it's dialogue and would make no sense without it. So that has to be somthing Coda himself worked on. At the end of the game he straight up tells Davey that the self doubt he expressed there is simply part of the creative process, that "lows" are as much part of life as "highs".
Stories of games, certainly, but when you're trying to make actual people part of your fanfictions and headcanons, there's a messed up part there. It's, I think, part of why, for instance, Phil Fish cancelled Fez 2.
Woffls
Member
I think that
Davey made those changes to the games - his games - as a way of making them more digestible and purposeful in the eyes of other people. But what he ended up doing was negating their purpose entirely, and forgetting why they existed in the first place. It was Davey trying to make a side of his personality more agreeable to others.
lmao this page looks like the sort of document Mulder gets handed by someone in a dank ass garage. Should probably start a spoiler thread.
HTVfanatic
Member
Ahhh, I gotcha now. Yeah that is certainly not what they intended or should happen.
shacklesmcgee
Member
The man says something along the lines of "a clean house is a clean soul"... And the house never gets clean. That part really got me too.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Well, that was kind of shit. Didn't expect to pay $8 CAD to hear some dude's
I mean, I understand why people like it but the entire thing felt like it was
fictional apology to his fictional friend.
I mean, I understand why people like it but the entire thing felt like it was
trying a little too hard.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I have no words.
HTVfanatic
Member
Its not a fictional friend, its the creator in him. Coda is another side of himself and hes trying to deal with hiw to appreciate his work.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Coda does not exist. He is fictional, as is the apology. They stand for things, but that doesn't mean it's not fictional.
HTVfanatic
Member
Hmmm, not sure I agree. I think the game is about a struggle between two sides of the creator Davey. But certainly open to each individuals interpretation.
Woffls
Member
For me
it spoke to a stage of depression where you're finding purpose in menial tasks, just because you are doing something that has a beginning and end rather than perpetual emptiness. But at some stage, you need to move on and seek something more ambitious and brave a bit of uncertainty to get there.
It was one of the things that threw me about what the game's meaning might be, and at the moment I kinda see it as tangential but certainly part of what the game's narrative is addressing.
It was one of the things that threw me about what the game's meaning might be, and at the moment I kinda see it as tangential but certainly part of what the game's narrative is addressing.
Anyone else find it interesting that
I'd like to think it's intentional but I dunno
most of the time it's using female pronouns? During the backwards part it refers to whomever it's talking about as she and her, during the interagation section the player avatar is referred to as ma'am and during the island sections it's a young woman crying in the cell. The crying women is also the only time we see a person with a real head and not just a box.
Woffls
Member
Nothing explicitly stated it, but for me it was implied by the rest of the narrative and supports the other things that are presented more clearly, like the commentary on validation, isolation and inner conflict.
The Illiterati
Member
There's no way to talk about this without spoilers.
Davey, the creator, is playing a character here people. "Davey". Within the story's logic "Davey" is NOT Coda. That makes no sense.
Start to read too much into the intentions of the creator I think you missed the whole point of the game.
PurpleMoustache
Member
I plan on writing up a review thing on my site, but I have a few thoughts I want to share:
The whole thing is presented as a Documentary. Davey introducing himself, and presenting someone elses work, and deconstructing it, not unlike an art documentary, or a music documentary. That validation of knowing something others don't and trying to share it with the world blurrs the lines about who the artist is. One could argue that the true artist is Coda, making all this work, coming up with clever game sketches, and ideas, and reflecting his mental state and environment in his work, down to creating art about how he cant create art, he doesn't have good ideas, and he turns that into its own idea. On the other hand, Davey has carefully constructed this beautiful guided presentation, modifying the games so they can be completed, or showing the larger parts of the picture. By stripping away the work and letting it become a different kind of work entirely, Davey becomes the artist, using Coda's work as a canvas. The constant need to pawn off the brilliance of someone else's work that you connect and feel as ones own consumes him (who hasn't gushed to a friend or coworker about a movie or TV show you really really dig), and in doing so doesn't "get" why Coda has created these works of art. Only when finalizing the collection does he realize what was going on. Davey, who wants to share everything he does with the world (3 Stanley Parable games (OG Mod and demo included) the Ridiculous Fishing ARG, and other smaller games) doesn't get that some art can exist only for the author. Things don't need to be shared. Some things are too personal to be shared.
Cave Johnson
Member
Loved The Stanley Parable, got this immediately!
For me, this game is just groundbreaking. I haven't been so stunned since, well, I don't know, late '90s maybe? This form of
AFAIK has never been used in a game before and I don't think it can be used again. It was like
And for God's sake, If I ever hear someone saying "that's not a game, that's just walking simulator" I will punch him in the face.
mockumentary
watching Blair Witch Project for the first time, not knowing if it was real or not. And sure, in case of this game, characters may not be real, but themes which were explored are as real as it gets. I really need to take a walk now. I have so many thoughts, yet I'm speechless.
And for God's sake, If I ever hear someone saying "that's not a game, that's just walking simulator" I will punch him in the face.
Laurentius
Member
obqUc
Last edited:
Yep
I dunno how I feel, but ultimately, I'm glad I played it. I felt *something* and that makes it a worthwhile purchase and time spent.
I feel this was kind of a way for him to express some feelings. The actual name of the game, Beginner's Guide. It's kind of a "Hey, remember why you started fucking around with Source in the first place?"
I dunno how I feel, but ultimately, I'm glad I played it. I felt *something* and that makes it a worthwhile purchase and time spent.
Woffls
Member
That was my initial assumption as well, though I'm struggling to think of how it reflects that side of his personality.
Now I've thought about it for a few minutes since writing that paragraph, I think it might be to illustrate how that aspect of his character 'died'. That Davey's desire for validation ended up killing a part of his character.
Now I've thought about it for a few minutes since writing that paragraph, I think it might be to illustrate how that aspect of his character 'died'. That Davey's desire for validation ended up killing a part of his character.
I dunno, it's 4am here :/ this game, man
the comic he drew along with the blog post he did on the galactic cafe site puts this game into perspective: http://www.galactic-cafe.com/
Corronchilejano
Member
So uuuuh... worth?
Goldenroad
Member
Holy crap. Talk about impactful.
Definitely in my top 5 this year.
Definitely in my top 5 this year.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Well this came out of nowhere.
I'll have another slice of Cakebread, please.
I'll have another slice of Cakebread, please.
I'd uh, just read the posts below yours and you should have your answer.
Corronchilejano
Member
The thought ocurred to me.
XANDER CAGE
Member
General spoilers.
I feel like the biggest clue to all of this is Coda's name. We're being shown "coda's" work to help shed light on him or bring him back or what have you. Davey has lost sight of his end goal and is trying to get it back.
pantsattack
Member
The game released so this became the OT, at least until there is an official one.What's with all the introspective redacted blocks? I thought this was just about game development
Not mocking btw, legitimately asking
Welp, I almost feel like a bad guy after seeing all the positive reactions in here, but this game did absolutely nothing for me. The beginning was pretty good and got me interested enough to make me play through it in one sitting, but then it just turned into a rather (in my eyes) generic
story with a very predictable plot twist. Of course this subject isn't really relatable to me personally nor does it hit close to home, so it's to be expected I wouldn't be as invested in it as others might be. That said, I'm usually a lot more invested in these type of stories, but this just fell totally flat for me at the end. One of the few times I actually felt like I wasted my time on something, the story just feels too fabricated and 'done before' for my liking.
That said, I still wanna give my respect to the dev. It's certainly is a unique experience for a game and I appreciate the uniqueness in what he tries to deliver with his games. I wish I didn't hate this game but I can certainly see why others would like it. Keep up the good work.
depression
That said, I still wanna give my respect to the dev. It's certainly is a unique experience for a game and I appreciate the uniqueness in what he tries to deliver with his games. I wish I didn't hate this game but I can certainly see why others would like it. Keep up the good work.