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[Replicant]

It's not condescending, it happens a lot. People can easily read or watch something and miss the original intent. There isn't anything wrong with being corrected by that.

How would one know what the original intent was if the writer was already dead years and years ago?

I didn't even give you my interpretation on that statement so don't even assume you even know what my interpenetration is. You're just spewing ignorance.

I don't need to. You already said that his interpretation is wrong and he doesn't know much about it when no humans alive these days actually know the right interpretation of the text. You just assume that your interpretation supercedes/better than his.

You may have read the bible but that doesn't mean you understand much about it.

 

[KodMoS]

don't need to. You already said that his interpretation is wrong when none of us know the right interpretation.

I said none of us know the right interpretation? You just made your self look even more ignorant by putting words in my mouth.

 

[Replicant]

I said none of us know the right interpretation? You just made your self look even more ignorant by putting words in my mouth.

LOL. You contradicted yourself by saying that he doesn't understand much about the bible. As if you're the ultimate source of bible knowledge.

 

[KodMoS]

LOL. You contradicted yourself by saying that he doesn't understand much about the bible. As if you're the ultimate source of bible knowledge.

No I didn't contradict myself. The bible is the ultimate source, and if it explains itself in scripture then it's not my personal interpretation. Again, you're speaking based on ignorance.

 

[Replicant]

No I didn't contradict myself. The bible is the ultimate source, and if it explains itself in scripture then it's not my personal interpretation. Again, you're speaking based on ignorance.

Ah, that explains how you come up with words like this:

One can argue that Christians are "picky" when it comes to following scripture. However, that doesn't mean they're real Christian. Fore example: The many churches are against gay people attending their church, but are not against fornicators joining their church. The reason why I use this as an example is because a fornicator is in the same category as homosexuals (as of those not inheriting gods kingdom)in the scripture.

Welp, there's nothing more to argue then. Hope you don't eat shellfish though because the bible explicitly states that it's a sin. I won't be surprised though if you pick and choose which scriptures you follow and which you don't.

 

[KodMoS]

Ah, that explains how you come up with words like this:



Welp, there's nothing more to argue then.

Nope, just basically paraphrased a scripture.

2 Timothy 4:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.



Again.. Before you debate with anyone, at least know what you're talking about first.

 

[Replicant]

Nope, just basically paraphrased a scripture.

2 Timothy 4:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Just answer me: do you eat shellfish? do you wear clothes made of wool and linen? Or do you choose to follow only the NT instead and cherry picking the scripture as you see fit?

 

[KodMoS]

Just answer me: do you eat shellfish? do you wear clothes made of wool and linen?

Nope

 

[Replicant]

Nope

Well, congrats then. If there's one person to throw a stone at the rest of us, you should be the first in line. It also explains why many of your statements seem, well, excuse the word, "crazy" to some of us. But hey, one has to admire someone who sticks to the scriptures to a T. Assuming you don't lie, of course.

 

[KodMoS]

Well, congrats then. If there's one person to throw a stone at the rest of us, you should be the first in line. It also explains why many of your statements seem, well, excuse the word "crazy" to some of us.

You're just trying to find your way out of an argument without looking stupid.

Just so that you know, I'm not a Christian, I just read the Bible. I just offered you scripture that doesn't need any interpretation outside of what's already explained in the scripture.

In terms you can understand. The scripture explained itself without me adding anything to it.

 

[Replicant]

You're just trying to find your way out of an argument without looking stupid.

Just so that you know, I'm not a Christian, I just read the Bible. I just offered you scripture that doesn't need any interpretation outside of what's already explained in the scripture.

So in other words, you were lying? Otherwise, why would a non-Christian practice the bible to a T? And do you even realize what that implies?

In terms you can understand. The scripture explained itself without me adding anything to it.

If one were to follow the Bible to a T, it'd mean agreeing to all of its disturbingly misogynistic, racist, and often sadistic undertones. If this is something you believe in then all the power to you but yes, people will question you because some of the things in the bible are downright disturbing. It's the reason why many Christian denominations pick and choose the scriptures they want to follow because some of the things in there just doesn't jibe with their humanity and compassion for other human beings.

 

[Chaplain]

So God, having cursed all humans with the burden Original Sin, sets a test of goodness which he knows is impossible for humans to achieve anyway, a test which can only be passed by accepting his own "sacrifice" to overcome the curse he put in place to begin with, and a test where the cost of failure is eternal damnation?

Adam and Eve are the ones that brought sin into God's creation. They are to blame for passing on the virus/disease of sin. God warned them in advance that death would spread if they ate from the tree.

At the same time, God knew they would mess up and put a plan into action that would save those that wanted to be saved. No one has to be saved. Everyone makes that choice for themselves.

I read His Word multiple times and He didn't change my heart on anything. In fact, reading the Bible strengthened my position.

Pharaoh didn't want his heart changed either. God will not force you to do anything that you do not want to do. If you want to remain living without him, he will honor your decision. If you want to know him, and you ask him to reveal himself to you through his word, he will also do that.

I don't believe He exists.

You have made the choice, by your belief that He does not exist, that you do not want to know Him. You are limiting God in your own life by your lack of faith. As Jesus said:

“This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

Here is another explanation.

 

[KodMoS]

So in other words, you were lying? Otherwise, why would a non-Christian practice the bible to a T. And do you even know what that implies?



If one were to follow the Bible to a T, it'd mean agreeing to all of its disturbingly misogynistic, racist, and often sadistic undertones. If this is something you believe in then all the power to you but yes, people will look down on you because some of the things in the bible are downright disturbing.

How was I lying when I never said I was Christian? I just said I read the scripture, which doesn't qualify me as a Christian. Just because I quote the Bible for what it says, it doesn't mean I'm following the law, I'm just quoting scripture.

 

[Replicant]

How was I lying when I never said I was Christian? I just said I read the scripture, which doesn't qualify me as a Christian. Just because I quote the Bible for what it says, it doesn't mean I'm following the law, I'm just quoting scripture.

To what end? For what purpose? Just for the thrill of debate? I mean, I can't see myself debating something that I have no personal stake in it. Also, I can't help but notice that for an account that was made back in 2005, most of your discussions seem to revolve around religions only and mostly nothing else, only one video game topic. You also have a very short history (3 pages) unlike other people on this forum. It's like you created this account solely to create this kind of debate (which you already had with many people on this board).

Anyway, it's your business but it's perplexing nonetheless.

 

[Mario]

If you want to remain living without him, he will honor your decision.

And then cast me into a fiery pit to be tortured for all eternity regardless of how else I live my life.

Yeah, yeah. I know. "My choice".

 

[KodMoS]

To what end? For what purpose? Just for the thrill of debate? I mean, I can't see myself debating something that I have no personal stake in it. Also, I can't help but notice that for an account that was made back in 2005, most of your discussions seem to revolve around religions only and nothing else, not even one video game topic. You also have a very short history (3 pages) unlike other people in this forum. It's like you create this account solely to create this kind of debate (which you already had with many people on this board).

I rarely visit the off-topic forum. I've been visiting the gaming section for years but just never posted anything because there was nothing to discuss. I posted on here because i remembered my account information and wanted to post something.

 

[YoungHav]

Why do Christians care what the Old Testament has to say about homosexuality but ignore it when it comes to dietary laws? Either follow it all or ignore it all.

If you are eating bacon, it is quite hypocritical of you to be against homosexuality.

lmao please hammer don't hurt 'em! My aunt who believes gays will burn in hell, just served us shrimp over Christmas.

 

[DarthWoo]

Pharaoh didn't want his heart changed either. God will not force you to do anything that you do not want to do. If you want to remain living without him, he will honor your decision. If you want to know him, and you ask him to reveal himself to you through his word, he will also do that.

Funny that you mention Pharaoh. Wasn't it God that hardened his heart against freeing the Jews just so he would get the opportunity to show off his fancy infanticidal powers?

 

[Dude Abides]

Nope

Why not? Are you an Orthodox Jew?

 

[PflargBlarg]

Why?

EDIT: I looked up Pascal's Wager just to make sure and I'm still not seeing the connection.
What legislation is backed up by religious beliefs?

The link seems to be someone whining that they have to put up with religious people all day. It's like me whining about the number of white people that cross my path daily including family- something I would never do.

EDIT2: I'm being brief and therefore blunt. I have no interest in actually arguing this. Nothing is going to convince me that I am a problem to your continued existence.

However, I am curious how many acts of legislation are based on religious beliefs. Outside of the assumed gay marriage one (Which arguably has more than one reason for not being legal), I hope the rest of them are examples that actually would have a chance of passing legislation that that I am stunned speechless

I'm not talking about you specifically. You are most likely not a problem at all beyond voting for religious people I suppose. Don't know if you do that. I'm going to assume you're not a congressman, senator, or whatever else. I'm saying when some religious people get into office (and not necessarily just christians) they attempt to legislate their religion. The textbook thing in Texas, intelligent design in Kansas, the DADT stuff, DOMA, various states putting onerous restrictions and requirements on abortions, assisted suicide, as you said the many states that don't allow same sex marriages and other unequal rights, many instances of trying to quash evolution or put creationism (sometimes under the guise of ID) on the same level, and stem cell research. From the previous link I gave you there's the laws that restrict alcohol sales on certain days, not to mention dry counties.

You can look under the Hot Topics on the sidebar here http://www.religioustolerance.org for the specific references to court cases and laws.

 

[diamondstar]

Well here's your main issue, you really seem to have a very twisted sense of "sin". Eating, drinking, and being merry is no sin. Hell, getting drunk isn't a sin, no matter what you were led to believe. You're more open to sin in those situations, but I go out to drink and party, and I can't really think of any particularly egregious sin I've committed under the influence. Even the act of viewing porn isn't particularly sinful, it's the objectification of what's on screen that's the inappropriate part.

I agree and understand most of your post besides this paragraph. What is this based on? What scriptures back up your opinions? Because from what I remember about drinking is it's ok to drink but not be a drunk. I doubt I would be considered a drunk but I know I have my fair share of binge drinking.

And also porn is not a sin? Really?! So if I were to die choking the chicken, St. Peter would let me in?

What religion do you follow? It just seems like a lot of people live these happy go lucky lives because they have mentalities like yours. They feel what they do in their everyday lives is not considered sin or much of a sin and feel if they died tomorrow they would go upstairs and not down. I grew up Pentecostal/Non-denominational. And from what I have been taught, living a true Christian life is not easy. And if you choose to hold on to secular activities, you are essentially turning your back on God.

There was some saying about if you are lukewarm, God will spit you out. That is probably part of the reason I live the way I live because I know I need to be for God completely or he just doesn't care. Or at least that is what I was taught.

 

[Orayn]

I agree and understand most of your post besides this paragraph. What is this based on? What scriptures back up your opinions? Because from what I remember about drinking is it's ok to drink but not be a drunk. I doubt I would be considered a drunk but I know I have my fair share of binge drinking.

And also porn is not a sin? Really?! So if I were to die choking the chicken, St. Peter would let me in?

What religion do you follow? It just seems like a lot of people live these happy go lucky lives because they have mentalities like yours. They feel what they do in their everyday lives is not considered sin or much of a sin and feel if they died tomorrow they would go upstairs and not down. I grew up Pentecostal/Non-denominational. And from what I have been taught, living a true Christian life is not easy. And if you choose to hold on to secular activities, you are essentially turning your back on God.

There was some saying about if you are lukewarm, God will spit you out. That is probably part of the reason I live the way I live because I know I need to be for God completely or he just doesn't care. Or at least that is what I was taught.

Why, pray tell, are your tenets any more factual than other Christians'? A book as big and old as the Bible must be pretty open to interpretation if Christians today get away with eating shellfish and wearing garments made of mixed fibers, yet still condemn homosexuality.

 

[diamondstar]

So God, having cursed all humans with the burden Original Sin, sets a test of goodness which he knows is impossible for humans to achieve anyway, a test which can only be passed by accepting his own "sacrifice" to overcome the curse he put in place to begin with, and a test where the cost of failure is eternal damnation?

God moves in mysterious ways that seem suspiciously like blackmail.




I read His Word multiple times and He didn't change my heart on anything. In fact, reading the Bible strengthened my position. I don't believe He exists.

I don't have the same strong opinion that you do but have the same questions.

Look, I thank God for my life, my talents, my health, my family and various other things in life that I am proud to be a part. But the thing is life is fucking hard. And life is fucking impossible and downright cruel for others. I just don't understand why we have to suffer so greatly in our lives to make it to heaven. The way sin is measured is like putting a person busted for on ounce of weed in the same jail cell as a child molesting rapist while they serve the same amount of jail time. That is why I mentioned if you sin a little, might as well sin a lot, right?

I try my best to be a good person because that is how I was raised but as I get older I wonder why am I a good person? What is it all for? People do good out of the kindness of their heart and subconsciously you may think, what goes around comes around. So you expect the good to come back around to you, right? What happens when doing good gets you no where, why still be a good person?

Well it's because a lot still believe your good deeds will be rewarded in the afterlife. But that may not really be true. That is why I say it would suck to be this good person your entire life and still find out you will get punished in the afterlife because of some special life you were supposed to be living. When there is really no true documentation about what that special life really is. Only speculation, opinions, and interpretations.

 

[Stinkles]

The whole point of the New Testament is to reset some of the ideals in the Old Testament with a new message from God. Jesus himself talk about not adhering to the Sabbath so literally and makes many other contradictory overtures. Paul, in te New Testament is simply describing something he sees, not passing on any message from jesus or god. It's a personal note. Not a commandement, or even a rule.

So Christians should be the most able to accept changes to Old Testament doctrine, since that's the foundation of their faith.

 

[Hylian7]

The whole point of the New Testament is to reset some of the ideals in the Old Testament with a new message from God. Jesus himself talk about not adhering to the Sabbath so literally and makes many other contradictory overtures. Paul, in te New Testament is simply describing something he sees, not passing on any message from jesus or god. It's a personal note. Not a commandement, or even a rule.

So Christians should be the most able to accept changes to Old Testament doctrine, since that's the foundation of their faith.

I still wonder why they even bothered putting the Old Testament in the Bible. For 90% of it God is a dick and when you ask a Christian about this, they just say "Oh well he's a loving God in the New Testament." It's very obvious picking and choosing of which things in the Bible they follow, and if something sounds too screwed up they don't follow it. I'm quite glad they don't follow some of the more screwed up shit, but still I wonder why they even bother following any of it at all.

 

[Atrus]

Religious laws have a finite lifespan in secular societies anyway. You can't have a society built on the concept of social equity if you allow religious institutions special discriminatory rights that others do not possess. In particular, religious institutions receive tax breaks for the propagation or instruction of religion while secular activities like sports training do not.

Also of issue is that religious viewpoints are currently protected under human rights legislation, thus allowing for people to discriminate while being protected from legal backlash.

Once these special protections are eliminated, the dogmatic will no longer have any leeway to be discriminatory. They can now be sued for monetary compensation for each and every breach and have their practices be banned by law.

Eventually, any discriminatory religious practice will either be broke or outright banned much in line with other activities that do not meet the threshold for secular laws.

 

[Hylian7]

Religious laws have a finite lifespan in secular societies anyway. You can't have a society built on the concept of social equity if you allow religious institutions special discriminatory rights that others do not possess. In particular, religious institutions receive tax breaks for the propagation or instruction of religion while secular activities like sports training do not.

Also of issue is that religious viewpoints are currently protected under human rights legislation, thus allowing for people to discriminate while being protected from legal backlash.

Once these special protections are eliminated, the dogmatic will no longer have any leeway to be discriminatory. They can now be sued for monetary compensation for each and every breach and have their practices be banned by law.

Eventually, any discriminatory religious practice will either be broke or outright banned much in line with other activities that do not meet the threshold for secular laws.

Hopefully so. Boy Scouts of America does this case in point. They do not allow homosexual or non-religious members, which seems so ridiculous to me because the religious stuff that is in it is barely in at all. Their reasoning behind it is that the Scout Oath mentions "To do my duty to God and my country." and the Scout Law mentions "reverent". Honestly both of those could be interpreted to mean "To do my duty to whatever my personal beliefs are." They allow any religion, just as long as it is a religion, so the word "God" is not necessarily accurate for everyone technically. What's worse? They STILL get money from the government, and are allowed to have meetings (for free) in public schools. It's sickening and really needs to change.

 

[Orayn]

I still wonder why they even bothered putting the Old Testament in the Bible. For 90% of it God is a dick and when you ask a Christian about this, they just say "Oh well he's a loving God in the New Testament." It's very obvious picking and choosing of which things in the Bible they follow, and if something sounds too screwed up they don't follow it. I'm quite glad they don't follow some of the more screwed up shit, but still I wonder why they even bother following any of it at all.

I like the Gnostic idea that the God of the Old Testament is a megalomaniacal douchebag and Jesus was sent by someone else entirely.

 

[JGS]

The whole point of the New Testament is to reset some of the ideals in the Old Testament with a new message from God. Jesus himself talk about not adhering to the Sabbath so literally and makes many other contradictory overtures. Paul, in te New Testament is simply describing something he sees, not passing on any message from jesus or god. It's a personal note. Not a commandement, or even a rule.

So Christians should be the most able to accept changes to Old Testament doctrine, since that's the foundation of their faith.

Well, he's not really doing this. He's complaining that the religious leaders made the law stricter than intended. He showed this time and again with examples, so it's not really a case of him saying the law is too crappy to follow now. Because Jesus arrived, the Law simply became unnecesary to follow.

Paul would not be able to simply fashion his own message. One of the letters he wrote was to the Hebrews, home to the Apostles. They would have certainly had a word or two for Paul if he stepped out of bounds. On top of that, Paul doesn't say too anything that could be construed as different than any of the other NT writers. If anything, he's the liberal of the group since he's around Gentiles so much.

 

[Mario]

I don't have the same strong opinion that you do but have the same questions.

Look, I thank God for my life, my talents, my health, my family and various other things in life that I am proud to be a part. But the thing is life is fucking hard. And life is fucking impossible and downright cruel for others. I just don't understand why we have to suffer so greatly in our lives to make it to heaven. The way sin is measured is like putting a person busted for on ounce of weed in the same jail cell as a child molesting rapist while they serve the same amount of jail time. That is why I mentioned if you sin a little, might as well sin a lot, right?

I try my best to be a good person because that is how I was raised but as I get older I wonder why am I a good person? What is it all for? People do good out of the kindness of their heart and subconsciously you may think, what goes around comes around. So you expect the good to come back around to you, right? What happens when doing good gets you no where, why still be a good person?

Well it's because a lot still believe your good deeds will be rewarded in the afterlife. But that may not really be true. That is why I say it would suck to be this good person your entire life and still find out you will get punished in the afterlife because of some special life you were supposed to be living. When there is really no true documentation about what that special life really is. Only speculation, opinions, and interpretations.

I don't believe in an afterlife, nor that life has inherent meaning. I do not fear divine punishment for a lack of faith or for "sin".

Yet I am a "good person". I am a good person because I believe we have but one life to live, and have an opportunity to make the most of it. I am a good person because it is personally rewarding, it supports and comforts those I love, and it betters society. Life is not without hardship and challenges but I call on myself and others to provide strength and respond to those rather than appeal or defer to an unseen, unanswering claimed divine authority. I have the power to change my circumstances and those around me, and can help those whose such ability is limited.

I believe making the most of the fleeting opportunity of life to create a meaningful legacy is a better path to happiness in this world and "eternal life" than one requiring self-deprecation, blind obedience, and dictated morals.

 

[beast786]

I don't believe in an afterlife, nor that life has inherent meaning. I do not fear divine punishment for a lack of faith or for "sin".

Yet I am a "good person". I am a good person because I believe we have but one life to live, and have an opportunity to make the most of it. I am a good person because it is personally rewarding, it supports and comforts those I love, and it betters society. Life is not without hardship and challenges but I call on myself and others to provide strength and respond to those rather than appeal or defer to an unseen, unanswering claimed divine authority. I have the power to change my circumstances and those around me, and can help those whose such ability is limited.

I believe making the most of the fleeting opportunity of life to create a meaningful legacy is a better path to happiness in this world and "eternal life" than one requiring self-deprecation, blind obedience, and dictated morals.

too bad you are going to die in enternal hell because you did not believe in a story of a person who died probably something 2000 years ago in a land far , far , far away.

 

[diamondstar]

I don't believe in an afterlife, nor that life has inherent meaning. I do not fear divine punishment for a lack of faith or for "sin".

Yet I am a "good person". I am a good person because I believe we have but one life to live, and have an opportunity to make the most of it. I am a good person because it is personally rewarding, it supports and comforts those I love, and it betters society. Life is not without hardship and challenges but I call on myself and others to provide strength and respond to those rather than appeal or defer to an unseen, unanswering claimed divine authority. I have the power to change my circumstances and those around me, and can help those whose such ability is limited.

I believe making the most of the fleeting opportunity of life to create a meaningful legacy is a better path to happiness in this world and "eternal life" than one requiring self-deprecation, blind obedience, and dictated morals.

Your mentality is great and I wish I could have it. I assume you are atheist.. And while I find that belief interesting and really want to research more about it, there is no way any one will convince me there is no God. Whether he is an asshole God or a loving God, my belief in God is strong. I just have questions about everything surrounding what God really is.

 

[GhaleonQ]

I still wonder why they even bothered putting the Old Testament in the Bible. For 90% of it God is a dick and when you ask a Christian about this, they just say "Oh well he's a loving God in the New Testament." It's very obvious picking and choosing of which things in the Bible they follow, and if something sounds too screwed up they don't follow it. I'm quite glad they don't follow some of the more screwed up shit, but still I wonder why they even bother following any of it at all.

Again, this is wholly wrong. You're not even approaching what Christians (Smart Christians! Over centuries!) have argued. Maybe I'm not representative because of my religious background and degree, but when I encounter people who want to talk about religion, they usually want to come away with a useful bit of knowledge. It's cultural anthropology. If you're "living amongst the Christians," you should be able to hate or refute accurately. That should be "obvious," to use your word.

Doing otherwise slows down so many conversations. Others have raised much better objections than, "Jehovah is a bully."

 

[Mario]

I assume you are atheist..

I am.

And while I find that belief interesting and really want to research more about it, there is no way any one will convince me there is no God. Whether he is an asshole God or a loving God, my belief in God is strong. I just have questions about everything surrounding what God really is.

Asking questions is great, no matter what you believe. Hopefully, you find the answers you are looking for.

 

[GhaleonQ]

I don't have the same strong opinion that you do but have the same questions.

Look, I thank God for my life, my talents, my health, my family and various other things in life that I am proud to be a part. But the thing is life is fucking hard. And life is fucking impossible and downright cruel for others. I just don't understand why we have to suffer so greatly in our lives to make it to heaven. The way sin is measured is like putting a person busted for on ounce of weed in the same jail cell as a child molesting rapist while they serve the same amount of jail time. That is why I mentioned if you sin a little, might as well sin a lot, right?

I try my best to be a good person because that is how I was raised but as I get older I wonder why am I a good person? What is it all for? People do good out of the kindness of their heart and subconsciously you may think, what goes around comes around. So you expect the good to come back around to you, right? What happens when doing good gets you no where, why still be a good person?

Well it's because a lot still believe your good deeds will be rewarded in the afterlife. But that may not really be true. That is why I say it would suck to be this good person your entire life and still find out you will get punished in the afterlife because of some special life you were supposed to be living. When there is really no true documentation about what that special life really is. Only speculation, opinions, and interpretations.

Again, not to be a douche, but I'd bet 1 of the 5 things the Bible talks most about is "avoiding despair in a fallen world." We all have to deal with evil, so if you're looking for examples, encouragement, inspiration, logic, or guidance, it's right there. That's to say nothing of writers like Dostoevskii. Hint: the power is not in Ivan's argument in The Brothers Karamazov, but in Alexei's actions and Jesus' kiss at the end of The Grand Inquisitor.

I don't believe in an afterlife, nor that life has inherent meaning. I do not fear divine punishment for a lack of faith or for "sin".

Yet I am a "good person". I am a good person because I believe we have but one life to live, and have an opportunity to make the most of it. I am a good person because it is personally rewarding, it supports and comforts those I love, and it betters society. Life is not without hardship and challenges but I call on myself and others to provide strength and respond to those rather than appeal or defer to an unseen, unanswering claimed divine authority. I have the power to change my circumstances and those around me, and can help those whose such ability is limited.

I believe making the most of the fleeting opportunity of life to create a meaningful legacy is a better path to happiness in this world and "eternal life" than one requiring self-deprecation, blind obedience, and dictated morals.

This point-of-view requires you to ignore all of the bad parts about yourself (or myself), our privileged position in time and geography, the unknown harms we cause, unknown deeds we'll never perform, and the extent to which we react to the world around us rather than act purposefully and virtuously on it.

Personally, I think that point-of-view is more dangerous. A flawed text is one thing. Flawed memory, perception, and ethics are another.

 

[JGS]

Yet I am a "good person". I am a good person because I believe we have but one life to live, and have an opportunity to make the most of it. I am a good person because it is personally rewarding, it supports and comforts those I love, and it betters society. Life is not without hardship and challenges but I call on myself and others to provide strength and respond to those rather than appeal or defer to an unseen, unanswering claimed divine authority. I have the power to change my circumstances and those around me, and can help those whose such ability is limited.

I believe making the most of the fleeting opportunity of life to create a meaningful legacy is a better path to happiness in this world and "eternal life" than one requiring self-deprecation, blind obedience, and dictated morals.

With the exeption of worship, are you of the opinion that religious people don't hold your positive views of yourself or that it's not encourage in their texts?

 

[Mario]

This point-of-view requires you to ignore all of the bad parts about yourself (or myself), our privileged position in time and geography, the unknown harms we cause, unknown deeds we'll never perform, and the extent to which we react to the world around us rather than act purposefully and virtuously on it.

Why I am "required" to ignore any of those things?

I'm very conscious of the actions, strengths and limitations of myself, others, and the world around me. Indeed, I have been voracious in learning all I can to become as aware as possible of the good and the bad, the fact and the fiction. It helps me be a better person and to assist others in being better people.

Personally, I think that point-of-view is more dangerous. A flawed text is one thing. Flawed memory, perception, and ethics are another.

Quite a few assumptions you are making there.

With the exeption of worship, are you of the opinion that religious people don't hold your positive views of yourself or that it's not encourage in their texts?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. Do I think religious people don't think positively about me? I imagine negative perceptions religious people have of me are mostly confined to me questioning or criticizing religious beliefs and religously motivated actions, or my lack of belief outright. I don't think I usually do much else that would rub the average religious person the wrong way.

 

[slidewinder]

Personally, I think that point-of-view is more dangerous.

What's more dangerous how now?

A flawed text is one thing.

Yes, it's a cop-out. Much like vagueness and hand-waving when defending something you're attached to even though you know better.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Why I am "required" to ignore any of those things?

I'm very conscious of the actions, strengths and limitations of myself, others, and the world around me. Indeed, I have been voracious in learning all I can to become as aware as possible of the good and the bad, the fact and the fiction. It helps me be a better person and to assist others in being better people.

Cool. Quickly explain your threshold for "giving until it hurts" (materially; I'm talking cash and goods, here). If you haven't met that threshold, explain why you don't feel you owe the needy that much. If you have met that threshold, explain how it's limited your own potential to seize what satisfies you and, indeed, if it's put stress on others whom you love.

Ethics 101! Go!

Quite a few assumptions you are making there.

Every human has flawed memory, perception, and ethics. We all have to know what it is we don't know. How we deal with those flaws is known as "the human condition."

What's more dangerous how now?

Making your own standards has, everywhere and always, led to a relaxing of standards. It's easy to judge yourself awesome when you're the judge. It's the ultimate nepotism!

Yes, it's a cop-out. Much like vagueness and hand-waving when defending something you're attached to even though you know better.

You overestimate me. I believe the Bible just because, you know, I believe it, but I've actually not found a better or smarter text of its scope. Sorry! The attachment's 1 of respect, not sentimentality.

 

[JGS]

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. Do I think religious people don't think positively about me? I imagine negative perceptions religious people have of me are mostly confined to me questioning or criticizing religious beliefs and religously motivated actions, or my lack of belief outright. I don't think I usually do much else that would rub the average religious person the wrong way.

Do you not think that religious people don't hold the same positive views as you?

EDIT: To clarify further, aren't religious people "good" by your definition.

 

[Mario]

Cool. Quickly explain your threshold for "giving until it hurts" (materially; I'm talking cash and goods, here). If you haven't met that threshold, explain why you don't feel you owe the needy that much. If you have met that threshold, explain how it's limited your own potential to seize what satisfies you and, indeed, if it's put stress on others whom you love.

I don't quite follow what you are wanting here, but I generally try to provide well for those around me including friends and family. In terms of sacrifice beyond the "expected", I generally donate thousands annually to charity (usually stuff relating to kids, though I have none of my own as yet), and when my company has hit tough times I'm the first one that stops taking a salary until the problem is solved which was close to a year at one point.

I don't know that my actions with respect to giving, charity or sacrifice stress or limit anyone particularly except myself as I don't have a wife or kids that rely on me. I don't generally do it to a level where it would impact my career, as that would hamper my impact long term.

Every human has flawed memory, perception, and ethics. We all have to know what it is we don't know. How we deal with those flaws is known as "the human condition."

Collectively, society can work together to overcome individual human flaws through shared knowledge, collaboration and debate.

Seems to me the more "dangerous" example is continuing to rely on a single, potentially flawed and certainly unchanging text for guidance.

Do you not think that religious people don't hold the same positive views as you?

I imagine some share some of the same positive views.

To clarify further, aren't religious people "good" by your definition.

That would depend on the individual in question.

 

[JGS]

I imagine some share some of the same positive views.

It would be great if I'm wrong, but I got the impression from the first post as well as this response that you don't think most do. Correct?

If it depends on the individual in question, it really seems to indicate that you are indeed one unique creature out of billions.

The traits you describe seem to be common character trait of humanity in general. Why some seem downright Biblical.

 

[Mario]

It would be great if I'm wrong, but I got the impression from the first post as well as this response that you don't think most do. Correct?

I think it depends on which particular positive views of mine we are talking about.

Certainly there will be a large number of religious people that don't share my views when it comes to topics such as homosexuality, validity of Creation, self worth, human rights etc. In part it will depend on the particular religion they belong to which would provide some indication of where they might stand, but I recognize there is individual variance within that.

If it depends on the individual in question, it really seems to indicate that you are indeed one unique creature out of billions.

The traits you describe seem to be common character trait of humanity in general. Why some seem downright Biblical.

When the group of "religious people" numbers in the billions and the only thing they universally technically have in common is faith, I couldn't possibly make a blanket statement about all of them as to my perception of their goodness.

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[Vicetrailia]

mmm, I'm just gonna say that I'm too stupid to understand and follow along with the bible. The fundamentals don't seem logical, necessary (in nature) or really even make sense to me. I just can't contemplate believing in god, it's just not possible for me.

 

[JGS]

Yet they wouldn't be sinning if the person they loved and wished to marry was of the opposite sex.

This is where Christianity fails.

It's not your call to determine what sin is for a religion. Christianity doesn't fail so much as you don't accept it.

 

[jdogmoney]

So, what I got from this, is that lesbians = a-ok, from a Biblical standpoint.

 

[Shanadeus]

.

 

[railGUN]

I'm so glad I don't have to worry about these types of issues. It's nice just being blissfully ignorant of all religion and beliefs, makes life easier, imo.

 

[YourMaster]

Your mentality is great and I wish I could have it. I assume you are atheist.. And while I find that belief interesting and really want to research more about it, there is no way any one will convince me there is no God. Whether he is an asshole God or a loving God, my belief in God is strong. I just have questions about everything surrounding what God really is.

If you do not know what the god is, or what it wants and whether or not what it wants is good or bad, how can this effect your life? Simply put, if you don't know what the rules are, how can you follow them.
Try to live your life in a way you think is correct and on what you value. Be open to new ideas on what's valuable in life.