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[pronk420]

thanks for the advice everyone, I ended up getting Genki, and quite pleased with it. It seems to cover all the bases to a reasonable depth for me, and its pretty cool getting a lot in one big book.

Sorry if it's been asked already but I'm going to start learning Japanese seriously and was looking at taking a course this year. Before I pull the trigger on it, is taking a course a good idea or is it better to self teach myself and then take the test for the qualification?

I would really recommend trying classes, but you might find it depends a lot on the atmosphere of the class. It can be really fun, but you might need to try different classes before you find one you like.

 

[OceanBlue]

Hey guys, I saw this sentence on an Anki card set:

この寮に住んでいるのは男子学生ばかりだ。

It made me realize I don't really get the difference between that sentence and this one:

この寮に男子学生ばかりは住んでいる。

I guess I need to really learn through a textbook or something topical instead of only reading sentences on flash cards. But anyway, is there a difference in meaning between the two?

Edit: Regarding classes, I took one and it was great. Having a learning environment, a teacher who understands what you know, and peers to bounce ideas and questions off of helps me a lot. I wish I went all of the way but I didn't have time.

 

[Philippo]

I didn't know we had a Japanese thread, that could help me big time in the future!

Ugh, looks like i failed my half-year test, although i always keep that in the possibilities, i guess i'll give it another go in June.

Funny enough, i was secure about the kanji part and worried about the grammar one, but then i failed the first and passed the latter. There where some that really couldn't translate from hiragana to characters :/

 

[GYODX]

Hey guys, I saw this sentence on an Anki card set:

この寮に住んでいるのは男子学生ばかりだ。

It made me realize I don't really get the difference between that sentence and this one:

この寮に男子学生ばかりは住んでいる。

I guess I need to really learn through a textbook or something topical instead of only reading sentences on flash cards. But anyway, is there a difference in meaning between the two?

Edit: Regarding classes, I took one and it was great. Having a learning environment, a teacher who understands what you know, and peers to bounce ideas and questions off of helps me a lot. I wish I went all of the way but I didn't have time.

There is a subtle change in nuance and focus, but semantically, there is no big difference.

First sentence: As for the ones(=the people) living in this dorm [topic], it is nothing but male students.
Natural translation: There's nothing but male students living in this dorm. (And maybe you are lamenting that fact?)

Second sentence sounds strange to me. You wouldn't use that は after ばかり like that. が would be okay, but not using a particle at all would be the most natural. You would not say 「ばかりは」unless you were emphasizing or contrasting what comes before against something else, as in 「今度ばかりは許さん」, or this bit of dialog from LoZ: Wind Waker:

「この竜の島の裏手にあやしい洞窟があるんだけどよぉ、おしいな～あんちゃんに羽根がはえててスイスイ空をとべるようならいけるけど・・・
こればっかりはどうしよ～もねえわな！」.

Do you see the sort of emphasis the 「ばかりは」combination gives off?

So if we correct that bit and write:「この寮に男子学生ばかり住んでいる。」

This sentence has no clear focus. The grammatical structure of the first sentence (A is B) works better for the kind of nuance the speaker might have been trying to convey. In the first sentence, ～ばかりだ is the predicate; it is describing the topic of the sentence directly. It lets you emphasize the "nothing but-ness", if you will. In the second sentence, ～ばかり is merely an adverbial phrase modifying the predicate 住んでいる.

 

[CountBlack]

About to buy the Genki I textbook. Now I'm wondering if I should also purchase the workbook with it? Or would the textbook alone be worth it?

 

[muteki]

About to buy the Genki I textbook. Now I'm wondering if I should also purchase the workbook with it? Or would the textbook alone be worth it?

The workbooks, as far as I remember, don't offer any grammar or vocabulary on top of what is in the textbook. It is fill-in-the-blank, complete-the-sentence/dialog kind of stuff. I think there are some pages dedicated to Kanji practice at the end. It's worth is really up to how you study. The regular text offers many example sentences and exercises as well (that we did as a class in school, the workbook was our homework), the workbook is just more on top of that.

If anything, at that level you will be searching high and low for material you can consume without much headache, and the workbook will be a good source.

 

[RangerBAD]

So I had a question. I feel like I'm not entirely getting の-nouns. Mainly how to use it myself outside of possessive nouns. When I'm reading it I'm understanding it, but when I'm using it I'm not always sure of when I need to use it.

Is there a rule I'm not understanding? AのB is the formula they set up, with B being the main idea and A being a further restrictive noun. Making something more specific. I think my problem is understanding what the main idea is. Sometimes I get the two reversed.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

So I had a question. I feel like I'm not entirely getting の-nouns. Mainly how to use it myself outside of possessive nouns. When I'm reading it I'm understanding it, but when I'm using it I'm not always sure of when I need to use it.

Is there a rule I'm not understanding? AのB is the formula they set up, with B being the main idea and A being a further restrictive noun. Making something more specific. I think my problem is understanding what the main idea is. Sometimes I get the two reversed.

An example of what you're unsure about might help, if you can think of one.

I'm not an expert, but the way I understand it is that in AのB, B can either belong to or be defined by A. For example, Alice in Wonderland is translated as 不思議のアリス, because this is THE ALICE who comes from/goes to/belongs to WONDERLAND. Similarly many nouns can become adjectives when used before の because they define WHICH PARTICULAR THING/PERSON it is in relation to other things or people of that type or designation.

At the basic level we learn 私の友だち, "my friend". The 私の marks THIS friend as being the one that belongs to ME. アメリカのマクドナルド means "American McDonalds" because it's separating the McDonalds restaurants that are in or belong to America.

It could be that you already know this and are asking about some other case, let me know if this helps!

 

[Zoe]

Detach any association of possessive の from gerund の. Try not to think of them as the same word.

歌うのが好きだけど、テンポが早すぎて歌詞を読むのが難しい。
I like singing, but the tempo is too fast so reading the lyrics is difficult.

 

[RangerBAD]

Well, an example was something like I almost wrote Sakura University student as:

さくらのだいがくえんのがくせい

Obviously that's wrong, but my thinking of restricting another noun made me think that need a の between Sakura and University. The book I'm learning from told me to think of の nouns as one big noun at times.

The correct way was:

さくらだいぐくえんのがくせい

I'm guessing that when they mean "main idea" they mean out of the two nouns. I'd almost think that student and the university could both be main ideas.

I'm not at the kanji level of my studying yet. Everything is just hiragana and some katakana. They've only presented one type of の so far. Not up to a gerund type.

Spoiler

I'm self-studying too.

 

[muteki]

I had some trouble wrapping my mind around chains of nounのnounのnoun..., particularly if the relationship between them isn't something I would express the same way in english.

I found a link at one point to a site that has some good visual descriptions of grammar points, and in particular for things like this, I thought they explained it well with some simple diagrams:

http://www.gwu.edu/~eall/vjg/03simplenps/03simplenps.html

main link:

http://www.gwu.edu/~eall/vjg/vjghomepage/vjghome.htm

 

[RangerBAD]

I think I may get it now, but time will tell. With self-studying I can't really double check myself easily because I may have the wrong understanding. Hopefully I don't form any bad habits.

The biggest thing I get out of it is that の can be used for possessive, locations, and features. Would that be a fair understanding? I was stuck only thinking in terms of ownership.

 

[Jintor]

The の particle has a lot of different uses (my basic grammar dictionary lists four). The ownership one is probably the most common, but the indefinite pronoun and the general nominaliser is pretty common too.

Regarding の (ownership), I've always found the easiest thing is to simply translate it as 「's」. For instance,

緑ヶ丘中学校の 学生の 先生
"Midorigoaka Junior High School's students' teacher".

You end up with weird stuff but it almost always makes sense in context and more importantly it lets you know who belongs to what (or perhaps what is limiting what)

Regaring "Sakura University", the problem is that you're thinking of it as "Sakura's University" but it's a single noun, "Sakura University".

/edit the "s" trick doesn't work for everything (for instance, カラーの写真 (カラーのしゃし&#12435 is "a photo in colour" though it would shortcut to "Colour's photo"; 八時からのパーテイー = "8 o'clock start's Party" = "A party that starts at eight o'clock") but generally speaking you can work it out easily from context)

 

[RangerBAD]

The の particle has a lot of different uses (my basic grammar dictionary lists four). The ownership one is probably the most common, but the indefinite pronoun and the general nominaliser is pretty common too.

Regarding の (ownership), I've always found the easiest thing is to simply translate it as 「's」. For instance,

緑ヶ丘中学校の 学生の 先生
"Midorigoaka Junior High School's students' teacher".

You end up with weird stuff but it almost always makes sense in context and more importantly it lets you know who belongs to what (or perhaps what is limiting what)

Regaring "Sakura University", the problem is that you're thinking of it as "Sakura's University" but it's a single noun, "Sakura University".

/edit the "s" trick doesn't work for everything (for instance, カラーの写真 (カラーのしゃし&#12435 is "a photo in colour" though it would shortcut to "Colour's photo"; 八時からのパーテイー = "8 o'clock start's Party" = "A party that starts at eight o'clock") but generally speaking you can work it out easily from context)

I think it was that the book told me to think of two nouns with a の as a big noun. I think I have my head wrapped around it now though.

 

[bigmit3737]

Anyone know where I can learn Finance terms in Japanese?
In the same vein, what's the Japanese term for "present value."?

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Anyone know where I can learn Finance terms in Japanese?
In the same vein, what's the Japanese term for "present value."?

Thanks.

現在価値 （げんざいかち）would be the direct translation. You'll also see 割引現在価値 （わりびきげんざいかち）or even just 割引価値 （わりびきかち）. You may even see プレゼント・バリュー or even "PV" used in certain articles, etc.

To find more finance terms, maybe just Google something like:

融資　用語
銀行　融資　用語
ファイナンス 用語

Add "英語" at the end and you'll probably find sites with English translations, too.

 

[Jintor]

I think it was that the book told me to think of two nouns with a の as a big noun. I think I have my head wrapped around it now though.

Well, it is correct, since it basically just means that two nouns (or whatever) affect each other and just form a single super-noun.

 

[CountBlack]

Got my Genki I textbook

Plan on putting in some work tomorrow. I know most of the basics already but it'll be a nice review.

 

[OceanBlue]

There is a subtle change in nuance and focus, but semantically, there is no big difference.

First sentence: As for the ones(=the people) living in this dorm [topic], it is nothing but male students.
Natural translation: There's nothing but male students living in this dorm. (And maybe you are lamenting that fact?)

Second sentence sounds strange to me. You wouldn't use that は after ばかり like that. が would be okay, but not using a particle at all would be the most natural. You would not say 「ばかりは」unless you were emphasizing or contrasting what comes before against something else, as in 「今度ばかりは許さん」, or this bit of dialog from LoZ: Wind Waker:

「この竜の島の裏手にあやしい洞窟があるんだけどよぉ、おしいな～あんちゃんに羽根がはえててスイスイ空をとべるようならいけるけど・・・
こればっかりはどうしよ～もねえわな！」.

Do you see the sort of emphasis the 「ばかりは」combination gives off?

So if we correct that bit and write:「この寮に男子学生ばかり住んでいる。」

This sentence has no clear focus. The grammatical structure of the first sentence (A is B) works better for the kind of nuance the speaker might have been trying to convey. In the first sentence, ～ばかりだ is the predicate; it is describing the topic of the sentence directly. It lets you emphasize the "nothing but-ness", if you will. In the second sentence, ～ばかり is merely an adverbial phrase modifying the predicate 住んでいる.

Ah okay, that's kinda difficult lol, but I feel like it's pretty important. Thanks!

 

[bigmit3737]

現在価値 （げんざいかち）would be the direct translation. You'll also see 割引現在価値 （わりびきげんざいかち）or even just 割引価値 （わりびきかち）. You may even see プレゼント・バリュー or even "PV" used in certain articles, etc.

To find more finance terms, maybe just Google something like:

融資　用語
銀行　融資　用語
ファイナンス 用語

Add "英語" at the end and you'll probably find sites with English translations, too.

Thank you!

 

[Valkerionseven]

So I might have to do a small introduction of myself in Japanese, instead of completely cocking it up trying to do it alone, can anyone here give me a quick... I dunno. " Hi my name is ___" "I am __ years old" "I like/hobby is ___"

Think that should be enough, and think I can look it up but want to double check. First time meeting someone btw.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

So I might have to do a small introduction of myself in Japanese, instead of completely cocking it up trying to do it alone, can anyone here give me a quick... I dunno. " Hi my name is ___" "I am __ years old" "I like/hobby is ___"

Think that should be enough, and think I can look it up but want to double check. First time meeting someone btw.

<name> to (pronounced toe) mou shimasu. <age in Japanese numbers> sai desu. <interest 1> to <interest 2> ni kyoumi ga arimasu. Yoroshiku onegai shimasu.

This is pretty formal. If the setting is more casual use "watashi wa <name> desu" instead of the first line.
If you want to do hobbies specifically you can say "Watashi no shumi wa <hobby one> to <hobby two>" but it's a little bit less natural.

I also recommend breaking your name down into katakana syllables and repeating it that way after the initial introduction. "katakana de <me ri ssa>" being an example for the name "Melissa."

 

[RangerBAD]

So I was working on my workbook and I wasn't sure about one of my translations. They wanted me to write "My major is history too." and I translated it as "&#12431;&#12383;&#12375;&#12398;&#12379;&#12435;&#12371;&#12358;&#12418;&#12428;&#12365;&#12375;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;"

Was that right or wrong?

 

[AmethystEnd]

So I was working on my workbook and I wasn't sure about one of my translations. They wanted me to write "My major is history too." and I translated it as "&#12431;&#12383;&#12375;&#12398;&#12379;&#12435;&#12371;&#12358;&#12418;&#12428;&#12365;&#12375;&#12391;&#12377;&#12290;"

Was that right or wrong?

Yeah, that's right. Is there something specific about it that you need clarification on?

 

[RangerBAD]

Yeah, that's right. Is there something specific about it that you need clarification on?

No, just wanted to make sure I did it right since I was unsure. It was practice on using &#12418;.

 

[Valkerionseven]

-snip-

Thanks was pretty helpful. Still totally fucked it up. I think I domo instead of dozo at one point. SOooooo embarrassing cause its such a mistake I've NEVER made before.

They seemed to understand though, I had an idea of what I was saying, which were formal and some grasp of the reading/writing. Nervous people make mistakes and what not. It was just for extra points in the interview but still really really nonsense mistake ugh. Looking at other people who did theirs today, they made embarrassing nonsense mistakes too so I guess were all in the same boat haha.

Least I tried I guess...

 

[Fugu]

I think it was that the book told me to think of two nouns with a &#12398; as a big noun. I think I have my head wrapped around it now though.

My advice for learning to deal with &#12398; or any of the other vaguely defined major particles (&#12395; comes to mind) is to avoid trying to ascribe any kind of meaning to them. Instead, try to throw yourself at some reading comprehension (or listening, if you prefer); you will doubtless find hundreds of examples very quickly and you'll be able to ascertain for yourself how to use it, particularly in the case of &#12398; where context generally leaves little room for confusion (&#31169;&#12398;&#37329;&#39770; requires little knowledge of the "meaning" of &#12398; to interpret correctly).

It is a trickier question to determine when to use &#12398; instead of no particle at all, but for this I would say that &#12398; is used for any connection that isn't so common to the point that it's vernacular.

 

[TheSporkWithin]

It was just for extra points in the interview but still really really nonsense mistake ugh. Looking at other people who did theirs today, they made embarrassing nonsense mistakes too so I guess were all in the same boat haha.

Least I tried I guess...

JET Program interview? If so it's more about how you handle yourself and how hard you sell your desire to work in their program and what you bring in terms of experience and attitude.

 

[Mozz-eyes]

Boom. N3 pass, now on to N2 in Summer!

Good luck for those of you in the JET Programme application system, it's a ballache and takes a long time but it's worth it in the end!

 

[MadraptorMan]

Passed N1 by 27 points! Such a relief to finally have the results. This was my first ever JLPT, took a gamble and skipped right ahead to N1 so I'm quite happy it turned out well.

 

[I'm an expert]

Jet interview talk in this thread eh. I guess it's been long enough that I can talk about it. I was one of the guest interviewers for the nyc consulate a few years back. I know the directors at the consulate well and they needed someone. Unique is about all I can say about that experience. Surprised you went with the actually using Japanese in the interview, we actively scored everyone lower who wasn't moderately fluent. They actually wanted people who didn't give a fuck about Japan or Japanese, which I agree with for that position.

 

[urfe]

Failed, N1. Should've studied. Oh well! Perhaps I'll try again when work dies down!

 

[Mozz-eyes]

Jet interview talk in this thread eh. I guess it's been long enough that I can talk about it. I was one of the guest interviewers for the nyc consulate a few years back. I know the directors at the consulate well and they needed someone. Unique is about all I can say about that experience. Surprised you went with the actually using Japanese in the interview, we actively scored everyone lower who wasn't moderately fluent. They actually wanted people who didn't give a fuck about Japan or Japanese, which I agree with for that position.

Must have been a cool experience! My London interview was pretty gruelling.

 

[Boogiepop]

So, I'm assuming there are some people who have done JET stuff in here, and I don't know where else to ask this so here goes. I've been doing some freelance translating for the last few months and I'm actually starting to get some work with one company. However, I noticed JET prohibits "side-jobs". Would doing some online freelance translating while doing the JET program be a problem with that? Just something I'm kind of worrying about as I'm getting ready for my interview with them, and I feel actually asking about that would probably be a bad idea...

 

[I'm an expert]

Actually I think there's an alt thread in community for Asia. Probably better to ask there, but sure, in general side jobs are prohibited in some industries. The issue with jet is you're a government employee. Of course, I met about a million alts who did shit on the side so in the end it probably doesn't matter. I doubt they actively monitor shit minus on the side tutoring. Don't convey in any form the idea of using jet as some jumping off point to your amazing life and career in Japan being some translator. We cut any goober who even gave a hint of that.

 

[RangerBAD]

My advice for learning to deal with &#12398; or any of the other vaguely defined major particles (&#12395; comes to mind) is to avoid trying to ascribe any kind of meaning to them. Instead, try to throw yourself at some reading comprehension (or listening, if you prefer); you will doubtless find hundreds of examples very quickly and you'll be able to ascertain for yourself how to use it, particularly in the case of &#12398; where context generally leaves little room for confusion (&#31169;&#12398;&#37329;&#39770; requires little knowledge of the "meaning" of &#12398; to interpret correctly).

It is a trickier question to determine when to use &#12398; instead of no particle at all, but for this I would say that &#12398; is used for any connection that isn't so common to the point that it's vernacular.

I see what you're saying. That was only lesson 1 of Genki I. I'm only just finishing up lesson 2 in the workbook.

 

[Valkerionseven]

They actually wanted people who didn't give a fuck about Japan or Japanese, which I agree with for that position.

Trust me they got that second part with me haha. But yeah, I agree for the most part with that. My reasons are not "omg Japan because Japan is cool, I mean ANIME!!!" for applying, but there does need to be some interest, or at least having heard of the country haha.

JET Program interview? If so it's more about how you handle yourself and how hard you sell your desire to work in their program and what you bring in terms of experience and attitude.

Yeah I got that vibe a few weeks ago talking to some of the other Jets/ex member online. Went in only having read my essay and application a few times and glad I did not super stress over extra prep cause they asked nothing from the essay, just application stuff to make sure I was not a liar. Other than that just a straight conversation for me. Felt like talking to a few professors honestly.

 

[stump sock]

They actually wanted people who didn't give a fuck about Japan or Japanese, which I agree with for that position.

I've actually known quite a few people who have gone the JET route and the two that were the most successful BY FAR actively hated living in Japan for the most part. So that sounds fun.

But that seems kind of understandable since I have to imagine the number of people that roll into the offices that act like this is relatively high.

 

[eot]

I'm trying to make sense of a christmas greeting I got:
&#12354;&#12394;&#12383;&#12398;&#12418;&#12392;&#12395;
Happy&#12394;&#12371;&#12392;&#12356;&#12387;&#12401;&#12356;
&#12420;&#12387;&#12390;&#12365;&#12414;&#12377;&#12424;&#12358;&#12395;

I have no idea what "&#12418;&#12392;" and "&#12371;&#12392;" mean in this sentence.

 

[Kilrogg]

I'm trying to make sense of a christmas greeting I got:
&#12354;&#12394;&#12383;&#12398;&#12418;&#12392;&#12395;
Happy&#12394;&#12371;&#12392;&#12356;&#12387;&#12401;&#12356;
&#12420;&#12387;&#12390;&#12365;&#12414;&#12377;&#12424;&#12358;&#12395;

I have no idea what "&#12418;&#12392;" and "&#12371;&#12392;" mean in this sentence.

In this case, &#12398;&#12418;&#12392;&#12395; essentially means "around you", "to you"...
&#12371;&#12392; is just "things", specifically abstract things: luck, events, whatever.

 

[Dilli666]

Beginner here. Anyone got a good explanation on how&#12288;&#12363;&#12425;&#12288;is and can be used? Genki I is only giving very short explanations in some later chapters.

This is an example sentence from my homework:

&#12371;&#12398;&#30007;&#12398;&#23376;&#12399;&#20170;&#26085;&#12363;&#12425;&#23398;&#26657;&#12408;&#34892;&#12365;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;

I don't understand what the &#12363;&#12425; does to the sentence. This is my translation:

The boy goes to school today

 

[stump sock]

Beginner here. Anyone got a good explanation on how&#12288;&#12363;&#12425;&#12288;is and can be used? Genki I is only giving very short explanations in some later chapters.

This is an example sentence from my homework:


I don't understand what the &#12363;&#12425; does to the sentence. This is my translation:

I'm also a beginner, so take this lightly but it can mean "to/from," which I assume it is here.

edit: even though the &#12408;&#34892;&#12365;&#12414;&#12377; seems to imply the "going to" part, I guess the &#12363;&#12425; specifically designates what is being gone to?

 

[Zoe]

This boy will be going to school starting from today.

 

[stump sock]

This boy will be going to school starting from today.

ack so &#12363;&#12425; is pointing to &#20170;&#26085; instead of &#23398;&#26657;. ok, I see now.

edit: ok, now that you say that it totally makes sense. grammar

 

[eot]

In this case, &#12398;&#12418;&#12392;&#12395; essentially means "around you", "to you"...
&#12371;&#12392; is just "things", specifically abstract things: luck, events, whatever.

Makes sense, thanks!

 

[thiscoldblack]

Passed N5. It was my first time taking the test and it end up being such a nice experience. Looking forward on taking N3 next December.

 

[RangerBAD]

I just had a heavy dose of Japanese grammar. With verbs and new particles. ru-verbs and u-verbs don't seem that difficult, and hopefully the particles don't give me any troubles. Also I'm trying to get used to the Japanese sentence structure in slightly more complex sentences.

 

[kubus]

Passed N5. It was my first time taking the test and it end up being such a nice experience. Looking forward on taking N3 next December.

Congrats! I'm thinking about taking the test next year, though I'm not sure at what level. I still have a 5 month study exchange ahead of me this year so hopefully I can improve a lot during that time

 

[RangerBAD]

It's too bad, when you're self studying, that you can't really pair with anyone like Genki wants me to.

 

[CountBlack]

It's too bad, when you're self studying, that you can't really pair with anyone like Genki wants me to.

Yea thats the issue I'm having too.. I should really look for some actual classes I could go to and socialize.