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[ElFly]

One thing I've noticed is that according to that map the only place no man's wharf could be is further along the coast by that boat and anchor. So scales is all out of proportion according to the distance traveled in game.

The game is super weird about scale.

If you look from Majula, you can see the Forest of the Giants' castle, but it is not that fa away. Similarly, from Heide's you can see Majula, but obviously you did not walk that much from Majula.

I wonder which piece of forest is the Huntman's Copse.

Regardless of the ancient dragon being fake, I suspect a big clue is in his phrase "the curse of life is the curse of want". Obviously, being alive you have desire, you want things, and this is framed as a curse.

If Nashandra is the smallest fragment of Manus and has a mental complex due to it, one idea is that she could desire to end life in order to end the ability to want anything. Essentially she wants her discomfort to cease and that requires all reality being consumed by the abyss.

I wonder if the curse of the undead itself is in some way related to all this - the undead cannot truly die, they go hollow when they lose all hope (and stop wanting things, incidentally), and they are fed by greedily consuming the essence of all things. As if the undead curse is itself an extension of the wanting of humanity.

I think you are right on the interpretation of "want".

 

[Mistel]

I wonder which piece of forest is the Huntman's Copse.

Bridge next to the skull. This is a pictograph for undead purgatory therefore that is the corpse next to it.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I also went and watched the intro. No photos here.

The arch you walk through in the intro has a super similar style, if not the same, to the archs in the ruins in Majula. It's cool that the arch has a door in it, but only in the reflection on the water.

The headless serpents in Shrine of Winter tell me the reason the primordial serpents don't appear in this game. Someone killed them. And that someone is more probably Vendrick himself, since the statue is in the Shrine that survived his era mostly intact (and that have messages pertaining to his era, it seems).

What must have happened is that Vendrick beat Gwyn/whoever had the soul of Gwyn and was linking the flame in that era, and then walked out of the kiln. Then the serpents came to proclaim him Dark Lord, and Vendrick killed the serpents then. It's weird they are not mentioned AT ALL in the game other than the decapitated serpents in the Shrine of Winter.

I def see the similiarities in Arches in opening cut scene and Majula ruins. If there could be any detailed connection there that would be really really fascinating. On a list of top 10 questions about the game's lore, for me, the question of what land our character is coming from is high up there. We don't know when or where it is.

 

[ElFly]

Bridge next to the skull. This is a pictograph for undead purgatory therefore that is the corpse next to it.

Oooh.

I went and checked the Lost Sinner room.

This photo has the four most common writings on it. Obvs it is not in a language we understand, it's prolly fake writing; cannot tell if it the same writing in Shrine of Winter or the tutorial plaques.

I think this looks like the greek alphabet, but have no obvious interpretation for it.

I also looked at the books in the Majula Mansion. One of them says "Quaterly (rubbish)" so I assume it was scanned from a real book. The other has a title that starts with "Le" so also must be scanned. Lol.

I def see the similiarities in Arches in opening cut scene and Majula ruins. If there could be any detailed connection there that would be really really fascinating. On a list of top 10 questions about the game's lore, for me, the question of what land our character is coming from is high up there. We don't know when or where it is.

Majula isn't really that far away from Things Betwixt; even if it is the "center" of the game, if you look at the map it is on the edge of the Drangleic Island.

Both Majula and the ruins in the intro must have been two very similar buildings, probably temples.

I don't think there is an answer for where our character comes from. Even the "race" menu during character creation doesn't list the place of origin, like Dark and/or Demon did (I think at least one of those had fake names for each race).

 

[Kevin Shields]

Maybe our character is jumping into the portal from a Majula/Drangleic in the future into a Drangleic in the past?? It would make sense that he has to go the land where Drangleic once was and jump in the portal. The old lady says he has to go a land walled off long ago... Therefore maybe our character is going to where Drangleic used to be and jumping in a portal to the past. Maybe the ruins in teh beginning are the same as the Majula ruins.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

5 and 7 are the only two that are an issue. 5 I've assumed to be directly under Majula and 7 well that's the only place I can think it is.

I don't agree with 5. How is that tower the Black Gulch? The Gutter/Black Gulch isn't on the map since it's directly below Majula, as you said. I think 5 should be... Heide's Tower of Flame perhaps? And the building below it on the map is probably the Cathedral of Blue? They both look to be in the water, after all, and the pictograms is similar to their architecture.

I think the dragon skull pictogram has got to be Aldia's Keep. It refers to that giant dragon skeleton inside, and the positioning makes sense with regards to the Dragon Aerie/Shrine.

I also agree that the skull and bridge likely refer to Huntsman Copse and the Undead Purgatory. However, their placement on the map confuses me, so I have my doubts... A bit below it to the south, you see windwills; that's Earthen Peak.

I'm confused about where Majula is on this map though. Or No Man's Wharf (it should be near the Tower of Flame but I don't see anything for it). And is that really the Cardinal Tower up above? And where are the Shaded Woods/Ruins/Doors of Pharros... maybe that plain between Earthen Peak and Brightstone Cove?

Screw the lore, I want to solve this map. I'm like Cale, fascinated by maps.

Regardless of the ancient dragon being fake, I suspect a big clue is in his phrase "the curse of life is the curse of want". Obviously, being alive you have desire, you want things, and this is framed as a curse.

Agreed. It's also a very Buddhist kind of philosophy, no? I'm no expert on Buddhism but that's how I always understood it.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Okay, I think I can make sense of it now. Let's take this map:

Now, that cloth map posted above is actually upside down from the map here. So here's my interpretation:

I'm sure it's not completely accurate, but it's the best I could find so far.

 

[Mistel]

I don't agree with 5. How is that tower the Black Gulch? The Gutter/Black Gulch isn't on the map since it's directly below Majula, as you said.

I'm confused about where Majula is on this map though.

You've answered your own question that tower is the one in Majula. Black gulch is directly below it. No man's wharf is the boat and anchor pictograph and yes the scale is all over the place.

These are the positions of the bonfires that appear on the mansion map more or less.

 

[Mman235]

I'm confused about where Majula is on this map though. Or No Man's Wharf (it should be near the Tower of Flame but I don't see anything for it). And is that really the Cardinal Tower up above? And where are the Shaded Woods/Ruins/Doors of Pharros... maybe that plain between Earthen Peak and Brightstone Cove?

The "tower" is the obelisk in Majula. No Man's Wharf either isn't on the map (because it's semi-underground) or is that sunken ship with the anchor symbol above it a bit past Heides Tower and the Lost Bastille (of course that would make it's placement really off).

Shaded woods/ruins are definitely confusing to find though, I guess the implication is that the Copse and Shaded Woods are part of the same overall forest. Unless those trees next to Majula are supposed to be the Shaded Woods and then you go underground through the Doors of Pharros (underneath the Copse) to reach Brightstone.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I have assumed that distance between areas is more exaggerated than in DS1 due to the necessity of Drangleic being spread across a continent. The landmarks you can see from any one location are faked to make them seem farther away or hide their true connectivity. When you walk to the location through whatever tunnel, you are metaphorically supposed to be walking a lot longer than real-time.

IMO this solves the problem of Iron Keep and its volcanic caldera being up from the elevator in Earthen Peak. I believe you can see the caldera behind Earthen Peak from the approach in Harvest Valley. The boss room in the Peak is not at the tip-top of the windmill. The hallway you walk through after the boss, to get to the elevator, is supposed to take you to the edge of the caldera. The elevator then goes up and you pop out at the interior edge of the caldera with Iron Keep ahead of you in the center of the volcano.

I believe they wanted to preserve the journey of the player walking seamlessly to each area (except Lost Bastille, equivalent of the asylum from DS1). But that doesn't work gracefully with the notion of Drangleic being much more spaced out than the fortress city complex that is Lordran in DS1. Which is mostly vertical, where Drangleic is horizontal.

 

[ElFly]

I think Earthen Peak -> Iron Keep would have made more sense if the elevator had simply gone down instead of up.

It is a shame the game doesn't show you more landmarks from one place to another; Majula can see most of them, but stupidly, you cannot see the Majulan' Obelisk from Drangleic Castle or Earthen Peak, which is a wasted opportunity. It was much easier to build Lordran in your head than Drangleic, outside a couple of early instances.

That said, I just noticed that Lost Bastille is not an island. Just saw the long mountain shores around it, by simply moving the camera. Which is kind of a gross oversight on my part.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think Earthen Peak -> Iron Peak would have made more sense if the elevator had simply gone down instead of up.

Agreed. In fact the lore says that the castle sank, so having it in an underground volcanic chamber would have fit perfectly.

 

[ElFly]

Vaati points out that in one of Demon Soul FMVs, there is a map that looks suspiciously like Drangleic, at least in general form.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think Earthen Peak -> Iron Keep would have made more sense if the elevator had simply gone down instead of up.

It is a shame the game doesn't show you more landmarks from one place to another; Majula can see most of them, but stupidly, you cannot see the Majulan' Obelisk from Drangleic Castle or Earthen Peak, which is a wasted opportunity. It was much easier to build Lordran in your head than Drangleic, outside a couple of early instances.

That said, I just noticed that Lost Bastille is not an island. Just saw the long mountain shores around it, by simply moving the camera. Which is kind of a gross oversight on my part.

Agree completely, they could have added so much scale and depth just by letting you see landmarks from different perspectives. In Majula, you can see a pillar way out in the distance, is that supposed to be Drangleic? It seems too far away for it to be the Tower of Flame...

 

[ElFly]

Agree completely, they could have added so much scale and depth just by letting you see landmarks from different perspectives. In Majula, you can see a pillar way out in the distance, is that supposed to be Drangleic? It seems too far away for it to be the Tower of Flame...

It's castle Drangleic, you can see a church or something of heide from majula.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Along with the Earthen Peek to Iron Keep weirdness. How is Heide at sea level, and then you take an elevator down and No Man's Wharf is still at sea level?

 

[Kai Dracon]

Along with the Earthen Peek to Iron Keep weirdness. How is Heide at sea level, and then you take an elevator down and No Man's Wharf is still at sea level?

Was looking at the elevator at Heide's the other day; I think this one is deceptive. You enter the elevator several stories above sea level - the building is large relative to the scale of your character.

Elevator goes down a few floors. From there you go down one more floor in the Heide sewers. Then you go through the twisting cave to No Man's Wharf. Maybe it's their artistic license at work again, but drop down to No Man's level isn't as far as it seems at first glance.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Was looking at the elevator at Heide's the other day; I think this one is deceptive. You enter the elevator several stories above sea level - the building is large relative to the scale of your character.

Elevator goes down a few floors. From there you go down one more floor in the Heide sewers. Then you go through the twisting cave to No Man's Wharf. Maybe it's their artistic license at work again, but drop down to No Man's level isn't as far as it seems at first glance.

Yea, I guess that makes sense... I'll have to go back and look again, but I guess you are pretty high up when you're walking through Heides.

 

[ElFly]

Yea, I guess that makes sense... I'll have to go back and look again, but I guess you are pretty high up when you're walking through Heides.

Yeah but

I dunno if anyone else notice but directly after u leave no mans wharf and enter the next area, look up. You can see part of the next level floating in mid air over nothing. Further proof the geography of the levels makes no sense.

I think it's correct that the Heide elevator is not supposed to be sea level, but they probably fucked up the height.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You've answered your own question that tower is the one in Majula. Black gulch is directly below it.

Hmm okay... so is my placement of Majula OK on my map? If the obelisk is Majula and not the Tower of Flame, what is the forest where I wrote "Majula"?

No man's wharf is the boat and anchor pictograph

Now this I disagree with. I think this is just purely decorative. The Wharf is in the Cathedral/Heide area, and those sunken ruins off the coast have got to be Heide. Especially if the obelisk is Majula. Consider this, you leave from the Wharf to reach the Bastille, but that boat and anchor is after both Heide and the Bastille.

These are the positions of the bonfires that appear on the mansion map more or less.

Oh? I should definitely check which bonfire lights up on that map to see where they are placed...

The "tower" is the obelisk in Majula.

Okay, I can agree with this.

No Man's Wharf either isn't on the map (because it's semi-underground) or is that sunken ship with the anchor symbol above it a bit past Heides Tower and the Lost Bastille (of course that would make it's placement really off).

Yeah, see above. I think it's just not on the map because it's underground, as you say. Kind of like the Grave of Saints, Gutter etc.

Shaded woods/ruins are definitely confusing to find though, I guess the implication is that the Copse and Shaded Woods are part of the same overall forest. Unless those trees next to Majula are supposed to be the Shaded Woods and then you go underground through the Doors of Pharros (underneath the Copse) to reach Brightstone.

I thought that made sense at first... but now I'm confused by Huntsman Copse. :S From Majula you have three branches all in opposite directions: Heide, Huntsman on its direct opposite direction, and Shaded Woods. Placing the Shaded Woods between Majula and Huntsman Copse makes no sense... unless I'm missing something.

I'm starting to think that the forest near the obelisk is actually Huntsman Copse, and the place with building and skull is Shaded Woods/Ruins. The icon of a bridge and skull really reminded me of Undead Purgatory, but its placement makes zero sense when you consider the Majula starting point and its placement relative to Heide's Tower (that contraption). Then again the path does curve a lot after you go through that contraption... maybe you get turned around somehow?

And what is that plains between Earthen Peak and Aldia?

Argh, this is confusing.

 

[SargerusBR]

5 and 7 are the only two that are an issue. 5 I've assumed to be directly under Majula and 7 well that's the only place I can think it is.

I did my own version as well, see if you guys agree:

 

[ElFly]

I don't see anything wrong. The main fight now is whether the wharf is the anchor, and how are the shaded woods and copse related.

Also funny: forest of the giants contains pretty little forest.


I was playing in Drangleic Castle and noticed that there is an entrance and stair to Nashandra's throne room. I wonder if it is reachable? Haven't found anything about it.

 

[SargerusBR]

To be honest that map is just not up to scale at all. I choose to put Harvest Valley for the sake of zone progression, it actually makes more sense if Shaded Woods to be put in there, since the 3-way forked road is located there and it is in the map the closest location to the 3 roads.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I did my own version as well, see if you guys agree:

Not bad. Think I agree with this. I wonder where Shaded Woods fit in...

To be honest that map is just not up to scale at all. I choose to put Harvest Valley for the sake of zone progression, it actually makes more sense if Shaded Woods to be put in there, since the 3-way forked road is located there and it is in the map the closest location to the 3 roads.

Yeah I know it's not up to scale, but the placement of the regions should still make some sense in relation to the others. Even if the scale or distance is inaccurate, it makes sense for Aldia Keep to be where it is in relation to the Dragon Aerie, for instance. But Shaded Woods is really the most confusing area. It should be before Brightstone Cove but... ??

 

[Mistel]

Hmm okay... so is my placement of Majula OK on my map? If the obelisk is Majula and not the Tower of Flame, what is the forest where I wrote "Majula"?

You put a coastal town in the middle as a land locked forest.... It's either Things Betwixt or shaded woods with pharros extending to brightstone.

HNow this I disagree with. I think this is just purely decorative. The Wharf is in the Cathedral/Heide area, and those sunken ruins off the coast have got to be Heide. Especially if the obelisk is .

It's close to a perfect natural harbor on the map so it makes sense to have it there. It's further along the coast and distance is all out of perspective.

There's a list of the mansion bonfires last page.

 

[demidar]

The forest bit is the biggest problem. Shaded Woods is connected to Aldia's Keep, Drangleic Castle and Tseldora, which is where Huntsman's Copse would be. Except it's clear that forest is Huntsman's Copse because the map shows it connected to a skull symbol by a bridge, which is obviously the Purgatory and its lead up.

 

[ElFly]

Shaded Woods is not really connected to Tseldora; there is Doors of Pharros in the middle.

Which, whichever forest it is, renders Doors to be super long, maybe longer than Shrine of Amana.

Personally I think Shaded Woods' Ruined Fork is the thing in the middle, which others have marked as the Huntman's Copse.

The Copse is not marked and is actually between the Purgatory and the Forest of the Giants.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Shaded Woods is not really connected to Tseldora; there is Doors of Pharros in the middle.

Which, whichever forest it is, renders Doors to be super long, maybe longer than Shrine of Amana.

Personally I think Shaded Woods' Ruined Fork is the thing in the middle, which others have marked as the Huntman's Copse.

The Copse is not marked and is actually between the Purgatory and the Forest of the Giants.

But the Copse leads into Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak...

 

[Kevin Shields]

I didn't think Lost Bastille was anything special on first run through but going back there with some binoculars and taking my time, it is really an atmospheric place. I really like the lore here and want to learn everything I can. Playing this game slowly is like having a completely different experience. Game is flat out amazing (if only they could have worked out the geography a little bit better).

 

[ElFly]

But the Copse leads into Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak...

Through a cascade and cavern. That's really really really long.

 

[sentry65]

I did my own version as well, see if you guys agree:

Here's my take on it based on yours:

 

[Morrigan Stark]

^ Not bad. It all adds up except the stupid Shaded Woods, which is supposed to start fairly close to Majula.

I'm starting to think From made this map long before designing the game world, and shuffled some areas around and didn't revisit the map. xD

Still, I think yours is the best/most plausible interpretation yet. Good job.

 

[sentry65]

err or maybe harvest valley does go in that spot?

 

[sentry65]

What if Shaded Woods and Things Betwixt are here:

 

[Mistel]

err or maybe harvest valley does go in that spot?

It would be a logical positioning due to the volcano being above ash from eruptions would make the area fertile hence harvest valley. And Pharros is probably the mountains.

 

[sentry65]

or maybe like this? Yeah this map is weird

(excuse the mess was in a hurry)

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I think you're on to something. The placement of Things Betwixt didn't make much sense relative to Majula or the Forest of Giants. But to be honest I'm not sure Things Betwixt is even supposed to be on the map... xD

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think you're on to something. The placement of Things Betwixt didn't make much sense relative to Majula or the Forest of Giants. But to be honest I'm not sure Things Betwixt is even supposed to be on the map... xD

Agree, I don't think Things Betwixt is on there which makes the above map fit pretty close...

 

[Mistel]

I'd actually have things betwixed would be the smaller portion of forest below the giants myself because that river which I assume continues to that forest along with it being on the coast due to the beach and coffin.

 

[sentry65]

Maybe Things Betwixt is here?

Someone should make a nicer version. I'm too lazy to clean it all up

 

[Kai Dracon]

I think you're on to something. The placement of Things Betwixt didn't make much sense relative to Majula or the Forest of Giants. But to be honest I'm not sure Things Betwixt is even supposed to be on the map... xD

Looking at the crack in the mountain that accesses Things Betwixt from the outside... I can't help but think it's literally Bigger on the Inside.

Inside there's a huge space going off into darkness, and giant columns. From the outside it's a relatively small hill. My pet theory is that it isn't fully in Drangleic, and is compressed into the border between dimensions.

 

[sentry65]

Here's my previous map with the paths you take:

So it's kinda weird going from the junction point with the petrified woman to Aldias Keep with the green line. It seems really elongated on the map even though it's seems like just a short trek in the game.

Also on the map, what the hell is that image of where Aldia's Keep is? I can't figure out what it actually is.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It looks like the skull of a dead dragon. Like the one that collapses when you enter the keep.

 

[sentry65]

ok, I see it now. That thing is it's long neck. Dunno why I was looking at it wrong.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

what if things betwixt isn't on the map?

#wow #woah

 

[sentry65]

what if things betwixt isn't on the map?

#wow #woah

yeah maybe, but it does have a cave located right next to where you go to that hub area with the petrified woman.

How's this:

 

[Bloomers]

Here's my previous map with the paths you take:

So it's kinda weird going from the junction point with the petrified woman to Aldias Keep with the green line. It seems really elongated on the map even though it's seems like just a short trek in the game.

Also on the map, what the hell is that image of where Aldia's Keep is? I can't figure out what it actually is.

I'm inclined to think that Huntsman's Copse and Shaded Woods should be swapped here. And yes, I don't think that Thing's Betwixt should appear on (the top of) the map here.

Are people actually going through the game, lighting bonfires, and seeing what the correspond to in the abandoned house?

 

[sentry65]

Huntsman Corpse has that building on the map though that looks like the building you go into in Huntsman Corpse


I'm still unsure about Harvest Valley's location, maybe it does go here?

 

[Mman235]

what if things betwixt isn't on the map?

#wow #woah

This is likely given it's underground, and in the same sort of style as Shrine of Amana (which also doesn't seem to be there). Not to mention the implication it's not even in Drangliec in the first place.

Next time I play I want to take a closer look at the backgrounds of Huntman's Copse to see if a crossover with Shadow Woods can be noticed in any way...

Huntsman Corpse has that building on the map though that looks like the building you go into in Huntsman Corpse

It could also be the Shaded Ruins, especially if the Copse is on some sort of elevation and the Shaded Woods are down below or something.

 

[SeventhSon]

I hope Dark Souls III is literally a big dungeon, with everything interconnected and "really" in the game world like Dark Souls.