Piston Hyundai
Member
am I a sexist for thinking that it was kinda fucked up that she was smoking while pregnant
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The family drama in Breaking Bad is excruciating.
- Thread starter Horse Detective
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am I a sexist for thinking that it was kinda fucked up that she was smoking while pregnant
Never said otherwise. And Walt definitely ends up the villain at some point but he doesn't start there.
Ah sorry; I see the post you were replying to said antagonist.
SoulUnison
Banned
SKYLER: "Walter, you need to stop manufacturing hard drugs. Also, you've killed a bunch of people, and at least one of them was a totally innocent child. You're way off the rails and I strongly disapprove."
AUDIENCE: "What a bitch!"
It's definitely not supposed to be a shining moment for her, and it's a pretty poor decision on her part, just like the affair with Ted.
To me, however, the takeaway from those situations was that Skyler has basically no control over her life or her marriage and she's not emotionally equipped for things to be getting this bad this quickly.
It's petty. It's hard to defend. It's also extremely human and relatable.
SoulUnison
Banned
You realize he straight up murders several people, sometimes directly, over the course of the show, right?
Tell me more about how "Walter did nothing wrong."
And I hope to high heavens the opinion is more along the lines of "he's an entertaining anti-hero" rather than "Skyler was so stifling and boring this was all inevitable."
SolidChamp
Banned
That clepto plot, tho.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It was all self defense! Prove me wrong.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
I feel like if I was less casual in my creation of this thread and more acknowledging of how polarizing and dramatic the community is with Walt being a villain or a hero, and Skylar being a bitch or realistic, I probably would have had second thoughts.
Frustration over Marie's overreaction of Walt Jr. smoking weed inspired me to start a discussion and now I kind of regret it. I honestly don't have deep thoughts or moral quarrels with the obviously horrific things people do in the show.
Frustration over Marie's overreaction of Walt Jr. smoking weed inspired me to start a discussion and now I kind of regret it. I honestly don't have deep thoughts or moral quarrels with the obviously horrific things people do in the show.
Dash_Riprock
Member
That kid was a secret drug kingpin, didn't you know?
Bounceounce
Member
I think you're hypocritical like most of the audience for exaggerating the scene where she smoked one cigarette before getting stared at and feeling immense shame before quitting, literally only one cigarette.
Meanwhile Walt brought axe murderers into their house.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
They should have focused more on Bogdan and his majestic eyebrows than Skyler and especially Marie.
NinjaBoiX
Member
I never get the "Skylar is such a bitch" mentality, she's married to an lying, absent, meth-dealing psychopath, I think she's allowed a little sand in her vagina.
Exactly, I almost judge her for not leaving him.
SoulUnison
Banned
Oof, this reminded me of how greatly I disliked Hank early on in the show when Marie asks him to "scare Walt Jr. straight" and he takes him on a ride to that seedy motel and basically just verbally tears down that prostitute right to her face with Walt Jr. sitting there, acting the whole time like it's just some funny "bro talk." If you had told me in that moment that Hank would become one of the more likable character in the series a few years down the line I would have been aghast.
That kid was killing spiders. He had it coming.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Pretty sure this is a reference to the Hitler did nothing wrong thing, and the poster means it to be sarcastic.
Could be wrong, but that's what I got from it.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
He's not a poser villain. He is a villain that gets a ton of shit done.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
This is kind of more towards what I was interested in seeing opinions on but I doubt the discussion will go this way.
The problem with this is not everyone who hates her, hates her because she's "shrill" or whatever. There's more nuanced criticism of that character to be found, and you can't hand-wave it all away as sexism.
She starts the series as this babbling, selfish idiot hanging onto her unrealistic dream of being a published writer - forcing her husband to work an embarrassing second job to make things work for her and their disabled son. Her entire first season character arc was essentially to be irritating and help drive home the fact that Walt hates his life. This is reinforced by flashbacks to his old life, his ex and his hesitation to get treatment for cancer. What's to like about her? I don't even think it was a goal of the writers room to make her a person we like.
Then you get passed season 2 and the idea that he's only cooking meth because he wants to set up his family goes away entirely. So to give her something to do, you make her complicit and have her launder his money. You get to a point where she's not only barking orders, she implies that he should kill Jesse.
Which, cool, she's "breaking bad" too! Except, no, her evil husband gave her a scolding so now she's the victim. And now we have all these compelling episodes about robbing trains and pushing meth and the cat-and-mouse game between Hank and Walt broken up but these insufferable scenes where she's shouting "shut up! shut up! shut up!" and dramatically sitting at the bottom of pools.
I know there are people who overly relate to Walt and dislike her because she's a problem for him, but no, she's a less compelling character than many of the male characters. I put that on Vince Gilligan and company who maybe managed to make ONE female character interesting in that entire run - Lydia - and she appeared in only a dozen episodes.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Marie is definitely a weaker character for the most part. But without the family elements the show would just be an exhausting tale of growing drug kingpin taking down other kingpins. The show goes as far as to use different lighting and camera techniques between the two world just to further establish this difference in Walt's double life and how one is destroying the other.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
props for expressing yourself more eloquently than I could
Bounceounce
Member
Funny part about that, is that a lot of her haters when backed into a corner try to flip things around on people and respond with how she should have left him/is culpable/is enjoying the fruits of his money, when 9/10 times that is totally beside the point of whatever the person defending Skyler (such as myself) is saying, or doesn't even conflict with what they believe about her character, as if by pointing out Walt's issues or the abusive relationship she suffered through is claiming she's faultless.
Especially since Skyler literally admits to her culpability unlike Walt on multiple occasions.
And the money argument is ridiculous because aside from the scene where she splurged on some Wine or something, Skyler was incredibly conservative with the money/felt trapped by it on occasion and initially only got involved for it in order to help Hank (though still technically wrong).
The issue was when she got the initial thrill of the plotting and wanting to take charge, but once she got a taste of how deep this really went and got slapped by her concious the hole was dug too far, her hand was in too many pots, and Walt went full domestic abuse beyond his early season 3 domestic abuse and the bad decision making and meekness took over.
Bounceounce
Member
Season 4 Walt is quite literally the most pathetic creatures I've ever seen.
How anyone thought he was a badass is forever a mystery.
Laieon
Member
I agree that Marie's character doesn't really go anywhere story wise, but I in terms of characters themselves I thought Marie was pretty cool. Funny, but cool. I didn't like Skyler at all though.
Overall, the best female character in the universe is Kim, but she's not in Breaking Bad.
Hank was one of the best characters in the show.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Skyler made me almost quit the damn show. So god damn annoying.
I found the family/friends aspects to be extremely repetitive, dragging, and often prominent to consider this series truly one of the greats myself. It probably worked well when you watch an episode each week and when there are gaps between seasons, but watching a couple of episodes back to back felt repetitive and dragging to me, namely because of the recurring arguments that take up significant time. To me, the balance felt off.
Still, I think the characters are great and the acting often fantastic. Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely a quality series. But I really prefer a balance like in series such as the Wire and The Shield, which focus more on the police work/criminal acrivity yet also manage to nail character drama without it feeling repetitive or dragging.
Still, I think the characters are great and the acting often fantastic. Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely a quality series. But I really prefer a balance like in series such as the Wire and The Shield, which focus more on the police work/criminal acrivity yet also manage to nail character drama without it feeling repetitive or dragging.
Bounceounce
Member
1) No, she starts the serious off with a meek Husband who wasn't putting any energy into the relationship, as flawed as she was.
You know why Skyler wasn't working? Because she was pregnant and Walt didn't want her to work, which is why when she suggested going back to work he refused.
Prior to the Skyler had worked while raising a disabled son, Walt wasn't forced to work anywhere, it was his contribution to the household and his position was the result of his ego destroying his life years prior to then.
Why people continuously out the onus on Skyler for the lack of fire in their life/Walts meekness is forever a mystery to me, they were mutually at fault.
Just because a large portion of the first seasons framing was to paint Walt's life as dreary doesn't mean it's the only point at play, there were many other ways you could look at how things were playing out and see a different story for Walt and see Skyler in a different light rather than just banging out about veggie bacon and a handjob.
"Oh no Skyler had issues dealing with the fact her husband had cancer and didn't want treatment, oh no Skyler was a suburban housewife why is she so ignorant, oh no Skyler took initiative to try and get Walt a legitimate job why is she superseding him like this!"
She wasn't an idiot in the first season, maybe a bit naive, but overall she was doing normal things in a narrative that was anything but normal which made her actions stand out as egregious.
2) I'll quote the post I made prior to this one to respond to your second point:
"Funny part about that, is that a lot of her haters when backed into a corner try to flip things around on people and respond with how she should have left him/is culpable/is enjoying the fruits of his money, when 9/10 times that is totally beside the point of whatever the person defending Skyler (such as myself) is saying, or doesn't even conflict with what they believe about her character, as if by pointing out Walt's issues or the abusive relationship she suffered through is claiming she's faultless.
Especially since Skyler literally admits to her culpability unlike Walt on multiple occasions.
And the money argument is ridiculous because aside from the scene where she splurged on some Wine or something, Skyler was incredibly conservative with the money/felt trapped by it on occasion and initially only got involved for it in order to help Hank (though still technically wrong).
The issue was when she got the initial thrill of the plotting and wanting to take charge, but once she got a taste of how deep this really went and got slapped by her concious the hole was dug too far, her hand was in too many pots, and Walt went full domestic abuse beyond his early season 3 domestic abuse and the bad decision making and meekness took over."
3) Skyler is incredibly interesting in my opinion, and her Season 5A conflict with Walt is one of the show highlights, Anna Gunn was incredible and the scenes where she cut through Walt were cathartic.
Rien
Jelly Belly
Agreeing with all of this.
Bounceounce
Member
Counterpoint:
It took him all season to reach that point, but you're right, it was badass.
Doesn't erase the rest of his cretinous/laughable behavior throughout the season though, hell the point was for Walt to be completely pathetic up until the Crawl Space comes around and he needs to step up.
(I'll admit that Walt had me shook in that scene, I was pretty much Skyler's reaction to that call while watching)
She all but ordered him to kill his protege.
Why do people forget that when they defend the writers for playing the victim card with her?
I mean, never mind the calibre of person she is - she sucks but that's beside the point - she was LESS interesting as his victim than she was as his accomplice.
This is where we hit a wall and can't reconcile it with a discussion.
I would consider Skylar's role in 5A to not only be a lowlight, but the lowlight of the show and the point where the two aspects of the show collided for the worse.
There are a lot of opinions about this show in particular I can't personally reconcile. Like people who enjoyed the pretentious and dull fly episode, or like Gus' looney-tones caliber death scene.
Please explain.
Bounceounce
Member
Walt Jr. was great through Season 2 in my opinion, they dropped the ball with him after that though, I think they just had no idea what to do with him.
His scene with the broken Walt in season 4 and the one where he protected Skyler in Ozymandias were great to me though.
You mean one of the best episodes of the series, which wasn't even remotely pretentious...?
Yeah, on the other side of what you're saying, I can't take someone's Breaking Bad opinions too seriously when they think "Fly" was a bad episode of television.
Counterpoint:
Cue one of the many Waltcrying.gifs
Bounceounce
Member
1) Yah she did, that's the point, just like Hank being willing to sacrifice Jesse's life, none of these people are perfect.
Skyler was under the impression that Jesse was out to destroy them, he had almost burned down the house, her mentality was negative/depressed and she felt as though she was trapped in the mistakes Walt and her made.
Nothing you said conflicts with her victimhood or the character they portrayed in the show.
Peoole bring up her wrongdoings to try and deflect from the actual points of her dynamic with Walt.
i thought the "family drama" was the worst part about the show. i understand not every couple has a newborn in their 20s/30s but it seemed a bit out of left field for the Whites. i even forgot Walt Jr even existed around season 3 or so, and something about the relationship with Marie and Hank seemed a bit shoehorned even though the payoff was great at the end
not a major complaint though, still better writing than 99% of other shows out there
not a major complaint though, still better writing than 99% of other shows out there
SoulUnison
Banned
I also don't see the issue with the episode, but this statement is #2 on the list of Breaking Bad discussion derailments only behind mentioning Skyler.
It's like the Breaking Bad conversation equivalent of throwing a match into a haystack and running away.
It's like the Breaking Bad conversation equivalent of throwing a match into a haystack and running away.
Basically: "I think 'Fly' was a great episode!"
Textured Monk
Member
Yeah Hank starts off really unlikeable and the way he acts and Walt Jr looking up to him is one of the things that makes the audience root for Walt. Of course as the show goes on Walt becomes more despicable while everything that happens to Hank cause him to do a 180 while feeling like a natural progression.
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