An unstable framerate is always worse than a stable one even if the fps itself is lower because exactly of the variable input lag. There is no consistent input standard and as a result your fighting with the fact that the input lag completely changes in every different instance of moment to moment gameplay. It's really not hard to understand.
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The first 30 fps Metroid [HELPFUL MOD EDIT] is not Samus Returns
- Thread starter SpokkX
- Start date
An unstable framerate is always worse than a stable one even if the fps itself is lower because exactly of the variable input lag. There is no consistent input standard and as a result your fighting with the fact that the input lag completely changes in every different instance of moment to moment gameplay. It's really not hard to understand.
I get the concept of "60 = Less input lag, you can turn motion blur off and enjoy smothness", it's a technical thing.
But I don't understand how can it be more "Fun".
Samus Returns doesn't suffer from slowdowns and the controls are responsive. In other words, it plays fine. And being at 60 fps won't change that, the gameplay would remain largely the same.
While I'm aware that for competitive reasons, some games must be at 60 fps, it's not what makes something fun.
But that logic, games like CoD:Ghost must be GOTY, while others like Shadow of the Colossus would be a disaster.
Jonneh3003
Banned
You got me!
No, drops are noticeable regardless of what the average frame is. A solid 30 is a smooth experience, a varying 60 isn't.
That's subjective and not everyone would agree. I don't mind slight drops in the 50-60 range. Of course, the fact I don't mind tearing either helps with that too.
I play a lot of retro games and slowdown isn't THAT common mainly because it's actual slowdown rather than dropped frames.
HyperCroutons
Member
It sucks because 60fps is always a smoother experience for me but as long as it stays at a steady 30fps then I be happy. I'm just happy we're getting a proper Metroid.
Gunman Clive 1&2, with 4x supersampling in 2D
None of the mainline 2D metroid really have that much slowdown. It happens occasionally in Super Metroid; barely ever in Metroid 2 or the GBA games and Metroid 1 is also relatively stable compared to more advanced NES games
No they can't.
What dream world are you living in where all games be perfect?
If that were the case then developers would make it happen.
Of course it's subjective? I'm just trying to make him understand a different point of view that exists for aforementioned explained reasons.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Damn that was fast and the game was released today. How long have you played? Do you 100% completed it?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
so i will lock my games hovering between 100/144fps to 30fps because you are telling me that stable fps with higher lag is better than variable fps with lower lag. noted. better lock ping on online games at 100ms because variable 10~30 is worse too... lol
Blackpuppy
Member
The original game ran like a turd. Very few frames of animation and Samus ran and jumped as though she were stuck in molasses.
You said it's always worse though lol.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
just try games at 15fps and tell me that it is not less fun than at 30. it's so simple. more = better...
Jonneh3003
Banned
Ocarina of Time on N64 is better than most 30fps or 60fps games. More doesn't mean better. Consistency is fine.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
uh??? nobody said "perfect" and yes, devs CAN make 60fps (even more) happen...
Yup, that coupled with it being on 3DS + large backlog + limited funds means I'm skipping it for now, despite being a humongous Metroid fan. I still want to play it eventually, but 30fps is a massive disappointment for me for the reasons already stated in the thread. A 30fps remake of a 60fps game will always be very egregious to me :/
If those things don't bother you then great! Forget about it and enjoy. But don't be surprised that something which affects game performance so significantly is important for others. And for god's sake don't go yelling at them for it or replying with nonsensical anti-critique rhetroic
If those things don't bother you then great! Forget about it and enjoy. But don't be surprised that something which affects game performance so significantly is important for others. And for god's sake don't go yelling at them for it or replying with nonsensical anti-critique rhetroic
But it controls worse lmao. If it ran at 30 fps it would be a slightly better game.
Yes, it's the change that's the problem to me. All the metroids I've played were 60 fps.
Ocarina of Time on the 3DS is much better than it was on the N64 because of the smoother frame rate.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Ocarina of Time at 60fps would be better than Ocarina of Time at 30fps...
If you could say that it was the norm to have fully polygonal detailed 3d worlds at an unflinching 60fps back in the day then you would have a point.
Been playing the game (about 2 hours in) and I definitely wish it was 60 FPS. Wish they had used the extra n3DS grunt to make it happen. Might not be a CPU issue, though.
Since I own the game, can I say that I will 100% rebuy this if it somehow gets ported to Switch? My hands cramp incredibly with the 3DS and it gets mildly uncomfortable playing this.
As a note, though, I am 100% satisfied with playing it on the 3DS, 30 FPS included.
Since I own the game, can I say that I will 100% rebuy this if it somehow gets ported to Switch? My hands cramp incredibly with the 3DS and it gets mildly uncomfortable playing this.
As a note, though, I am 100% satisfied with playing it on the 3DS, 30 FPS included.
Been playing the game (about 2 hours in) and I definitely wish it was 60 FPS. Wish they had used the extra n3DS grunt to make it happen. Might not be a CPU issue, though.
Since I own the game, can I say that I will 100% rebuy this if it somehow gets ported to Switch? My hands cramp incredibly with the 3DS and it gets mildly uncomfortable playing this.
As a note, though, I am 100% satisfied with playing it on the 3DS, 30 FPS included.
DO YOU EVEN ENJOY GAMES!?! ARE YOU NEVER SATISFIED!?! I DON'T CARE SO WHY SHOULD YOU
/s of course, glad you're enjoying it! May be worth getting one of those 3DS grips if it helps
Why would you lock a game that varies between 100 and 144 fps to 30? You would naturally lock it to 60fps (120fps depending on how regularly it drops below that). Other than a sarcastic gesture you didn't add much here.
A ping from 10 to 30 is not comparable to variable fps from 30 to 60. The latter is a variable framerate at a low FPS standard while the former is fluctuating ping at a high standard. Don't be disingenuous.
Yes, and?
SinCityAssassin
Member
Wow, look at dis guy.
pretty done
Member
30fps 2d games have always been a no-no for me.
Samus Returns HD on Switch will be a fun play though.
Samus Returns HD on Switch will be a fun play though.
DerekOfTheDykes
Member
Today I learned that the gameplay speed of Samus Returns is a limitation of the game's framerate, and if the game just ran at 60fps everything would run faster rather than just smoother.
Because in my "first entry of an expanding brain meme" mind, I don't understand the difference between smoother animations and the actual speed at which characters move or the physics that effect them. I don't understand how a stable 30fps may be less desirable than a stable 60 but better than an unstable framerate, both in terms of trying to compensate for input lag and in terms of visual presentation. I don't understand how 60fps is more important for faster-paced games like the new Doom, but being 60fps doesn't make slower games faster or more responsive.
This is why I think that if Devil May Cry 3 were to run at a locked 30fps it would somehow be more sluggish than the blazing speed of Dark Souls 1 running at 60fps. Because I'm SMART, and EDUCATED.
Because in my "first entry of an expanding brain meme" mind, I don't understand the difference between smoother animations and the actual speed at which characters move or the physics that effect them. I don't understand how a stable 30fps may be less desirable than a stable 60 but better than an unstable framerate, both in terms of trying to compensate for input lag and in terms of visual presentation. I don't understand how 60fps is more important for faster-paced games like the new Doom, but being 60fps doesn't make slower games faster or more responsive.
This is why I think that if Devil May Cry 3 were to run at a locked 30fps it would somehow be more sluggish than the blazing speed of Dark Souls 1 running at 60fps. Because I'm SMART, and EDUCATED.
I actually cut myself on his edge
A game at 15 fps is clearly suffering from technical problems, making it barely playable. That's a different kind of issue, one the developer must fix to let the player enjoy it.
And for the sake of playing along with what you said (And because I can't make 2 comments without a bad joke):
Yes, you are having tons of fun if you are playing EDF at 15 fps, in fact, you should never let that game go higher than 45 ^^
Blackpuppy
Member
Do people really think Metroid 2 ran at a flawless 60fps?
Maybe the background scrolled at 60 htz but Samus was a slideshow.
Maybe the background scrolled at 60 htz but Samus was a slideshow.
I wonder if anyone in this tread left some 3/10 reviews on Metacritic saying "Play AM2R instead of this shit"
It ran at 60, all the time, Samus' animation frames obviously weren't 60 FPS (I don't think any 2D sprite based game has 60 FPS animations) but the screen updated 60 times per second. For that game slowdown would make everything run slower rather than cutting framerate
It ran at 60, all the time, Samus' animation frames obviously weren't 60 FPS (I don't think any 2D sprite based game has 60 FPS animations) but the screen updated 60 times per second. For that game slowdown would make everything run slower rather than cutting framerate
Okami Haundo
Member
Been playing the game (about 2 hours in) and I definitely wish it was 60 FPS. Wish they had used the extra n3DS grunt to make it happen. Might not be a CPU issue, though.
Since I own the game, can I say that I will 100% rebuy this if it somehow gets ported to Switch? My hands cramp incredibly with the 3DS and it gets mildly uncomfortable playing this.
As a note, though, I am 100% satisfied with playing it on the 3DS, 30 FPS included.
Every single time I consider buying a 3DS again for Metroid, I remember the bolded. Even the XL models made my hands cramp up like crazy... The saving grace with Switch is that I can play in tabletop mode!
I'm hoping this sells well so that we get more 2D Metroid games in the future.
Do technical limitations of games have absolutely no effect on your enjoyment?
Schucky Ducky
Banned
Sorry, wrong thread.
Niceguydan8
Member
I feel like the core of this argument is really flawed and kind of bad.
Of course more is better, but at what expense? Let's use Metroid or OoT as an example. Would you rather have Metroid/OoT as it was released at a lower FPS or have a higher FPS game released with different gameplay/content decisions due to the change in how the resources are allocated.
There are only so many resources to go around. Of course "more is better" is ideal, but in almost any hypothetical case that probably wouldn't be realistic.
SinCityAssassin
Member
In this case, absolutely not.
They have a minimal effect. They do absolutely affect it, but I can play games that are any resolution or framerate and still have a great time.
I don't allow it to stop me from playing something fun. So yea, while it can impact my enjoyment in a controlled circumstance like when I'm comparing the same game across different resolutions or framerates, when one game has only one resolution and framerate that I'm forced to play in, then I simply evaluate the game for what it is and don't sit there complaining that it should be something else.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
faster response time is always better whatever the time is. if you can't adjust youseft to the different times that is your problem. less lag = always better than higher lag...
So you're saying.... if you made a list of the Mainline metroid games, you'd have to list samus returns twice?
I disagree. Consistent and predictable response time/input lag that is always the same is always better than unpredictably fluctuating and inconsistent response time/input lag.
I mean, Mario 64 ran at 30 FPS with dips, and that game is considered to have some of the tightest movement and controls of any 3D platformer ever.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
People needing to justify their hardware purchases / choices. I've recently discovered the ignore feature and when combined with the Neogaf++ chrome add on you don't even have to see the people quoting those who seem to live for framerate (more specifically badmouthing console framerate). The forum has gotten so much more fun not having to read their constant tripe.
On topic the game feels great although I'm playing it on n2DS XL which could possibly run it smoother than the standard console?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
neither options. i would rather have a higher FPS game with the "same" gameplay/content with less polys/effects, just like as an example, Last of Us with worse shadows to hit 60fps
30 fps isnt « lag »...
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
tell that to CoD on consoles...
Niceguydan8
Member
neither options. i would rather have a higher FPS game with the "same" gameplay/content with less polys/effects, just like as an example, Last of Us with worse shadows to hit 60fps
That's not always realistic though, that's kind of my point. If that wasn't the case, every game would run at the best resolution for a given machine at the highest possible framerate.
I feel like PC is definitely the platform for you, then.
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