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[Toxi]

I remember when I played it and Gaf (among others) kept telling me that I just had to wait the map would open up at the end and I would get the Metroid goodness I craved after suffering such a horrible game.
Spoiler : that moment never happened.

It does happen, it's just limited to the post-credits and said exploration is limited to missile and energy tank upgrades. Whoo.

Other M is such garbage. Those forced walking sequences through linear hallways are everything wrong with game design.

 

[Simbabbad]

tl;dr - These explanations of PTSD are fanwank as not only do the require knowledge of a real world psychological condition, they also require knowledge of not just decades old games but a Japanese only manga.

I don't know, I'd rather think writing walls of text to bash a 10 second cinematic for not being plausible enough, in a game featuring a purple pterodactyl that can fly and breath fire in space, is the very definition of "fanwank". What I do know is that boss fight rocks in Hard mode, best Ridley fight IMO.

Besides, said cinematic shows her becoming a little girl again, and the introduction of the game calls Ridley her "long-standing nemesis". Even someone unfamiliar with the series would understand she's suffering something traumatic related to her childhood, and said person probably wouldn't mind the scene. And anybody familiar with the series knows Ridley killed her parents, even without ever touching the manga: the Internet is a thing, it's in every FAQ and message board, and wasn't it mentioned in Smash Bros. and many other outlets?

Nintendo has been getting incrementally worse, and worse, and worse at making classic series metroid games since super. To the point we arrived at other m, which is the bottom of a long, gradual slope, and not a jump off a cliff.

Nintendo has no fucking idea how to make a metroid game anymore, and they think the solution is different cutscene content.

So to you, all three Metroid Prime games, Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission are trash? Interesting. I guess you also think NES Metroid and Return of Samus aged badly, as I read everywhere? Fits right with my feeling that many so-called "Metroid fans" ranting in every single Metroid thread really only like Super Metroid, and think every single other game in the series is bad or obsolete. When you think only one game in a series is good, you just don't like that series - just move on.

So now Metroid Other M is sexists?

Bloody hell, we have gone too far.

I envy you, to hear about that nonsense just now. It's indeed the accusation that started the mass hysteria against this game.

Which is hilarious, when you think about it, because every single positive character that lives in the end is female, and all the evil characters are male. And among the only two main male positive characters in the whole game, one is black, and one sacrifices himself to spare Samus because he considers her as being much more important for the safety of the galaxy than him. Oh, the misogyny!

 

[Green Mamba]

and adding the morph ball hop which is just a time saver

Er, that was definitely not invented by Fusion or Zero Mission. It was invented by Metroid II, and is in the very game you're comparing Fusion and Zero Mission to.

I think the only major addition that Fusion and Zero Mission made to the controls was simplified weapon selection. The rest was pretty dumbed down and I would argue forever that Fusion and Zero Mission are much more rigid feeling than Super Metroid is. At the very least they're simpler and twitchier. Super's motion is much more fluid and the range of control you have over Samus is essentially limitless. Fusion and Zero Mission place very hard limits on Samus's physics, Fusion especially.

 

[KHlover]

It does happen, it's just limited to the post-credits and said exploration is limited to missile and energy tank upgrades. Whoo.

Other M is such garbage. Those forced walking sequences through linear hallways are everything wrong with game design.

They didn't even get that right, iirc the optional Phantoon boss fight doesn't happen in Hard mode :/

Shame, was probably the only part of Other M that was better than in Super Metroid.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Er, that was definitely not invented by Fusion or Zero Mission. It was invented by Metroid II, and is in the very game you're comparing Fusion and Zero Mission to.

I think the only major addition that Fusion and Zero Mission made to the controls was simplified weapon selection. The rest was pretty dumbed down and I would argue forever that Fusion and Zero Mission are much more rigid feeling than Super Metroid is.

Super wall jump is not fun. What else is even "dumbed down" about the controls of Fusion and ZM?

Also I've only played a bit of Metroid II before stopping because I just did not like it at all. But the Morph Ball hop wasn't in Super anyway, so it's an improvement the GBA games have over it.

Spoiler

Other M isn't even my least favorite Metroid. It's better than NES Metroid and Metroid II, which have aged horribly and are nearly unplayable unless you grew up with them

 

[Green Mamba]

Super wall jump is not fun. What else is even "dumbed down" about the controls of Fusion and ZM?

Also I've only played a bit of Metroid II before stopping because I just did not like it at all. But the Morph Ball hop wasn't in Super anyway, so it's an improvement the GBA games have over it.

Spoiler

Other M isn't even my least favorite Metroid. It's better than NES Metroid and Metroid II, which have aged horribly and are nearly unplayable unless you grew up with them

I edited the post after you quoted me, but the real thing is that there are very hard limits to the player's physics in Fusion and Zero Mission, whereas your control over Samus in Super Metroid is essentially limitless. Something like using the ramp in the room before the Grapple Beam to jump (not Shinespark, no walljumping, just jump) up to the missile expansion above instead of straight at the Grapple Beam room would be impossible in Fusion and Zero Mission.

And the Morph Ball hop is in Super Metroid. Maybe you didn't find it?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Maybe I just don't remember it in Super.

 

[Neff]

Which is hilarious, when you think about it, because every single positive character that lives in the end is female, and all the evil characters are male. And among the only two main male positive characters in the whole game, one is black, and one sacrifices himself to spare Samus because he considers her as being much more important for the safety of the galaxy than him. Oh, the misogyny!

Yeah, I don't buy it either. To be conclusive, you'd need a male character in that exact same situation to see if the double standard is there on Sakamoto or Team Ninja or Nintendo's part. Which of course we'll never have.

As it is, suggesting that Samus' reaction to Ridley (often exaggerated by Other M's critics) is sexist because she's a woman, and by extension suggesting that it wouldn't happen if she were a man, is entirely sexist in itself.

 

[Overside]

Honestly, I kind of understand where the "authorization" thing comes from, since unlike most other Metroids there's no real justification for upgrades to her suit, which is based on ancient technology, to be lying around a space station. All the other games had her go to Chozo ruins except for Prime 2, where half her upgrades come from some other ancient civilization that we can presume is for some reason compatible with Chozo tech and the other half comes from the vilians who stole said upgrades at the start of the game, and Fusion, which had her gain powers through absorbing the X-virus thingies.

The problem is just that as much as upgrades to her suit lying around the space station relies on a lot of suspension of disbelief, the staright-up fucking stupidity of the authorization thing requires even more suspension of disbelief, and more importantly, said suspension of disbelief is much more conscious. Literally fucking everyone who plays the game is going to question why she needs Adam's permission to use any of her abilities. Only a small percentage of the people who played would have questioned why Samus starts without any of the shit she gained in previous games and why shit that powers up her suit is lying around the space station.

Even knowing the actual reason doesnt make it any better. Its a complete head on collision between story meaning and gameplay meaning.

Lets lay out whats actually going on:

To be precise, Samus needs 'authorization' because it was part of the clause she accepted as a verbal contract to be hired onto the mission.... And she follows it with near inhuman proffessionalism for a mercenary (Shes not a bounty hunter, like most fictional bounty hunters, shes a mercenary, bounty hunter just sounds way cooler). From a story standpoint, this is very reasonable. Mundanely reasonable. WHy put something this mundane in a video game about alien planets and arm cannons and shit?

From a gameplay standpoint, this is bullshit. Metroid is based on learning through observation and doing. The player does whatever the hell they can possibly think of, observes the outcome, and learns, the world design is arranged in a way where the player naturally discovers, through learning, 'the path', the resulting sense of satisfaction that results from this is damn near fricking cathartic. Instead this game constantly smacks the players hand everytime they try to do something, and 'the path' is shoved down their throat.

The reason Adam authorizes certain things is because he is strictly following doctrine called Rules of engagement and escalation of force. Apparantly the greatest military mind in the future of space and tight body suits bases his entire existence on two basic methods of military fires discipline, with all the finesse of about a half hour google session. From a story standpoint this is ham fisted military representation... Its about as botched here as everywhere else in media.

From a gameplay perspective Its more bullshit. You do not put Samus 'Hey guys look, my arm is a freaking 155mm cannon' Aran under rules of engagement, or escalation of force. What a load of boring crap.

The mission, is not a search and destroy mission.

Again, I repeat because this is important, the mission, is NOT a search and destroy mission like every single other metroid in existence.

It is a vip extraction mission. Its a search and rescue.

Search and destroy, you go wherever you want, do whatevr you want. kill every damn thing between you and your objective with extreme prejudice, and all the power you can muster.

Search and rescue, you tediously and carefully try to find a civilian on the battle field, making sure you dont cause any collateral damage, in the way most efficient and time sensitive to ensure the highest rate of extracting the target alive.

Which one of these sounds like it would make for a more entertaining experience?

Because its a search and rescue, Adam actually states he doesnt want samus' ridiculously powerful weaponry (A single one of her normal missiles destroyed a bulk head lock their ship laser would take hours to burn through) accidentally blowing the civilians to be rescued, so he he sets up rules of engagement including escalation of force, he will observe the escalation of force, and authorize the bare minimum force he believes Samus would need to acheive victory with minimal collateral damage.

He defers his authority to Anthony to increase his level of force via his own judgement. :/

So thats that for the weapon systems. But what about things like the grappling hook?

Well, rescue mission. We stop chasing lizard ridley and go back the other way instead of using grapple beams, because Adam wanted to return to searching for the civilian, which his info showed was the other way.

I shouldnt need to get into what I think of this from a gameplay standpoint

Spoiler

Its bullshit.

And what about the Suits? Why didnt adam authorize the suits?

Adam never authorized the suits. He never said 'Im authorizing the varia suit samus'.

Samus just... never equipped the suit, and he popped in and said 'Samus, equip your varia suit'.

I dont know why Samus didnt equip her varia suit. She just didnt. Adam went 'Hey, equip the damn suit its hot', not 'I authorize you to equip your heat protection suit'.

Why the hell didnt she turn on the gravity suit the second we were in a super crushing or upside down gravity area? Why didnt she turn it on in a fight against a creature that manipulates gravity, why didnt she turn it on until the last second when she was being sucked out int the vacuum of space?

I dont know. It doesnt make any sense, but its what actually happened. Authorization of the suit, is not a thing that actually happened.

Lets look at this from a gameplay perspective.

WHY THE HELL AM I NOT FINDING MY OWN GOD DAMN SUITS AND POWERUPS HIDDEN WITHIN A LABYRINTH OF BRILLIANT AND SINISTER DESIGN IN A METROID GAME!!!!!???? If there is nothing to actually find, then what the hell am I going through this pale parody of an imitation of exploration for?

 

[Toxi]

As it is, suggesting that Samus' reaction to Ridley (often exaggerated by Other M's critics) is sexist because she's a woman, and by extension suggesting that it wouldn't happen if she were a man, is entirely sexist in itself.

So if you think anything is sexist, Neff thinks you're sexist. That's totally reasonable.

Of course it's sexist because she's a woman. There are other reasons why it's sexist (The way Samus's actual relationship with Ridley is completely unexplained, removing any justifying context in-story for her acting afraid), but the sexist stereotypes of men and women are different and the Ridley scene falls square into the sexist stereotypes of women, not men.

 

[Neff]

So if you think anything is sexist, Neff thinks you're sexist. That's totally reasonable.

No more or less reasonable than the massive leap of logic you just made, I'm sure.

Feel free to explain why Other M is sexist though, if you like.

Of course it's sexist because she's a woman. There are other reasons why it's sexist (The way Samus's actual relationship with Ridley is completely unexplained, removing any justifying context in-story for her acting afraid), but the sexist stereotypes of men and women are different and the Ridley scene falls square into the sexist stereotypes of women, not men.

I meant point out something specific with reasoning behind it, not point out an ambiguous stereotype that happens to align with what somebody somewhere else thinks.

Lack of context is sexist? Because it makes a girl look like a sissy? So are you or are you not saying that's not what would happen if she was a guy? If you are, then it's pure speculation on your part, and sexist speculation at that.

 

[Overside]

No more or less reasonable than the massive leap of logic you just made, I'm sure.

Feel free to explain why Other M is sexist though, if you like.

Probably the only thing I feel like discerning on this matter....

I dont think the reasoning was if samus were a man that wouldnt happen that way, I think it was more if samus were a man it wouldnt have been written that way.

I

So to you, all three Metroid Prime games, Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission are trash? Interesting. I guess you also think NES Metroid and Return of Samus aged badly, as I read everywhere? Fits right with my feeling that many so-called "Metroid fans" ranting in every single Metroid thread really only like Super Metroid, and think every single other game in the series is bad or obsolete. When you think only one game in a series is good, you just don't like that series - just move on.

What is with people like this and learning how to type before they learn how to read?

Nintendo has been getting incrementally worse, and worse, and worse at making classic series metroid games since super. To the point we arrived at other m, which is the bottom of a long, gradual slope, and not a jump off a cliff.

Try again.

 

[Neff]

Probably the only thing I feel like discerning on this matter....

I dont think the reasoning was if samus were a man that wouldnt happen that way, I think it was more if samus were a man it wouldnt have been written that way.

Yeah, Mr. Aran would have had a woman coming to his rescue with a huge laser instead.

 

[Toxi]

Probably the only thing I feel like discerning on this matter....

I dont think the reasoning was if samus were a man that wouldnt happen that way, I think it was more if samus were a man it wouldnt have been written that way.

Certainly. Other M in general would be written very differently if Samus were male. Other M is full of stereotypical characters and plot point (Anthony, the colonel, MB, evil government conspiracy), Samus is no different, and if she were male various story elements like the forced parental themes would be dropped because they're not part of the masculine stereotypes.

Yeah, Mr. Aran would have had a woman coming to his rescue with a huge laser instead.

No, because that would be non-stereotypical and Mr. Sakamoto lacks the writing ability to come up with anything beyond the basest stereotypes with both characters and plot.

 

[Overside]

Yeah, Mr. Aran would have had a woman coming to his rescue with a huge laser instead.

Could the giant laser be mounted on her arm, like some kind of arm cannon?

They should totally make a videogame about something like that.

 

[Neff]

Could the giant laser be mounted on her arm, like some kind of arm cannon?

They should totally make a videogame about something like that.

Sounds pretty good to me.

And maybe she can turn into a chicken to fit through small gaps... or a mist cloud, or... nah.

 

[Toxi]

The thing I don't get about people defending Other M Samus as a protagonist is that she's a completely unlikable character. She has no sense of humor, no interesting personality traits, no badassery beyond having superpowers. She makes Aiden Pierce look like an interesting and sympathetic protagonist.

Lack of context is sexist? Because it makes a girl look like a sissy?

Yes? If there were a scene to provide context for Samus's fear of Ridley, it would be justified in-story and therefore portrayed completely differently. That's how story-telling works, it's not just the story you tell, it's how you tell it.

so are you or are you not saying that's not what would happen if she was a guy?

I would, except I can decide whether it's intentional that Samus receives no context for her panic in front of Ridley or if Sakamoto just sucks that badly at writing characters.

 

[Neff]

She has no sense of humor, no interesting personality traits, no badassery beyond having superpowers.

So... like every Metroid game then.

 

[Toxi]

So... like every Metroid game then.

Other Metroid games don't have two hours of shitty cutscenes focusing on a terrible unlikable protagonist.

Of course, other Metroid games are actually good games instead of horrible ones.

 

[Overside]

The thing I don't get about people defending Other M Samus as a protagonist is that she's a completely unlikable character. She has no sense of humor, no interesting personality traits, no badassery beyond having superpowers. She makes Aiden Pierce look like an interesting and sympathetic protagonist.

Yes? If there were a scene to provide context for Samus's fear of Ridley, it would be justified in-story and therefore portrayed completely differently. That's how story-telling works, it's not just the story you tell, it's how you tell it.


I would, except I can decide whether it's intentional that Samus receives no context for her panic in front of Ridley or if Sakamoto just sucks that badly at writing characters.

Dude, I am one of the 12 people who read the manga, where it was explained, and I spent the next decade dreading the appearence of the ptsd episiode in an actual game.

The scene that explains that Samus is suffering ptsd, is far, far, far, far worse than anything that appeared in other M. The bliss of Ignorance.

I think the far better solution, is to just have a campy hero who beats the bad guys, and let the play experience do the talking.

 

[MechaX]

The thing about the PTSD in the manga that I found very interesting was that Samus was acting on the extreme on both sides of the spectrum. She's showing fear to Ridley, but at the same time, she's showing a manic kind of rage to Ridley. And the scene that gets quoted a lot is where she's doing like a fucking Conan The Barbarian rage-scream after she defeats him.

But instead in Other M, she's like "oh no ridley *child flashback*" and then fucking nothing when she defeats him. Like, her first monologue after Ridley is about fucking Anthony in the most deadpan of deliveries.

 

[Overside]

The thing about the PTSD in the manga that I found very interesting was that Samus was acting on the extreme on both sides of the spectrum. She's showing fear to Ridley, but at the same time, she's showing a manic kind of rage to Ridley. And the scene that gets quoted a lot is where she's doing like a fucking Conan The Barbarian rage-scream after she defeats him.

But instead in Other M, she's like "oh no ridley *child flashback*" and then fucking nothing when she defeats him. Like, her first monologue after Ridley is about fucking Anthony in the most deadpan of deliveries.

She shows no rage towards ridley whatsoever in the ptsd scene in the manga. There is no room for that whatsoever amid all the puking and screaming for suicide and foaming. After the failed zebes mission when she comes back, yeah, its a brass blaring guitar riffing, fanfaring one sided Samus show curb stomping... But during...

Dude. Other M had nothing on that shit.

Almost Everything that voice actress was told to do was in a monotone emotionless dead pan delivery. Horrible direction.

 

[MechaX]

She shows no rage towards ridley whatsoever in the ptsd scene in the manga. There is no room for that whatsoever amid all the puking and screaming for suicide and foaming. After the failed zebes mission when she comes back, yeah, its a brass blaring guitar riffing, fanfaring one sided Samus show curb stomping... But during...

Dude. Other M had nothing on that shit.

Almost Everything that voice actress was told to do was in a monotone emotionless dead pan delivery. Horrible direction.

Volume 2, Chapter 16, Page 24 is definitely the one with the Conan scream (or maybe she's powering up, I dunno) is the scene you want to look at for not necessarily the initial PTSD scene, but her reaction upon defeating Ridley. The other reactions were an interesting touch and at least established more about her relationship than Ridley than what Other M gives us, before and after.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

The way I see it, he haven't made new meaningful content for Metroid since Super Metroid, we keep retreading SR388 and Zebes in all the games he's made using always the same powerups.
He clearly has no will to explore anything else unlike pretty much anyone else that had the chance to take a stab at it.
If you want more SR388 or Zebes you can replay the old games all you want.
I've had about enough already of playing the exact same thing, I mean there's less variations than in the nsmb games.
I love them too but come on now.

Most would disagree, as Fusion and Zero Mission were recieved as well as any game in the series outside of Super/Prime. Fusion was QUITE a different take on the formula, and Zero Mission was a remake that combined aspects of the three previous Metroid games he directed. As far as I'm concerned, he made advancements to the series with every game he did, including Other M. Perhaps if he were allowed to make Metroid V we would see yet another evolution. And no, comparing 2D Metroid to NSMB is not a good comparison at all.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I thought Corruption was better than Echoes.

It is better. Sadly most of GAF doesn't realize it .

 

[Garlador]

I thought Corruption was better than Echoes.

It is better. Sadly most of GAF doesn't realize it .

Not better. Different, but equal. Prime 1 is supremely balanced, Prime 2 is more experimental and like Majora's Mask, while Prime 3 is more story and action-driven, but all three do all of those elements well (outside of the forgettable Prime 2 multiplayer mode).

I can't think of anything that Other M really, truly excels at, however. Certainly not storytelling.

 

[Mael]

It does happen, it's just limited to the post-credits and said exploration is limited to missile and energy tank upgrades. Whoo.

Pointless useless shit that can't even be found in the hard mode.
It's actually worse than you make it out....

Other M is such garbage. Those forced walking sequences through linear hallways are everything wrong with game design.

I don't know I hated the pixel hunt way more than that BS.

Most would disagree, as Fusion and Zero Mission were recieved as well as any game in the series outside of Super/Prime. Fusion was QUITE a different take on the formula, and Zero Mission was a remake that combined aspects of the three previous Metroid games he directed. As far as I'm concerned, he made advancements to the series with every game he did, including Other M. Perhaps if he were allowed to make Metroid V we would see yet another evolution. And no, comparing 2D Metroid to NSMB is not a good comparison at all.

Fusion is certainly the most interesting Metroid he worked on since Metroid (because really he didn't work on Metroid II, did he?).
The thing I see is that while Fusion was good for what it was (the very first 2D Metroid in a fucking long time with plenty of interesting stuffs), the whole station being a recreation of SR388 is disappointing.
In Sakamoto's games we only do 2 environments : Zebes and SR388.
That in something like 5 games.
I mean we do more than that in Prime Hunters.
I don't know about you but I'm a little fed up with these 2 places.
Also Prime 2 is the best but on GC; Prime 3 is fantastic, the best part of the Trilogy disc even.

I can't think of anything that Other M really, truly excels at, however. Certainly not storytelling.

Make you think of other better games...
fun part about Prime 2 is that it was supposed to ship with Super Metroid as the bonus game like Prime 1 came with Metroid 1...
Just imagine the package...

 

[Boney]

The thing I see is that while Fusion was good for what it was (the very first 2D Metroid in a fucking long time with plenty of interesting stuffs), the whole station being a recreation of SR388 is disappointing.
In Sakamoto's games we only do 2 environments : Zebes and SR388.

Uh not true, only sector 1 is a recreation of SR388 the rest of the space station is.. Well a space station with different breeding habitats! And even if your argument is based on retreating areas like jungle, fire and water there's still the dark and ice areas which are new along with the robotic interiors. Very nice stuff. Especially after the 8 year hiatus.

 

[jimi_dini]

So... like every Metroid game then.

Every other Metroid game isn't focused on the story or characters or some crap, but on the gameplay. Something that great games actually should do. Something that Nintendo games normally do. Samus is sort of like Gordon Freeman. She is someone the player can project themselves into.

btw. about that "no badassery"?

That's as badass as you can get. It's "fuck yeah, I (we) made it". Her actions in the other games (well also the player's actions) screamed badass. Her movement in for example the Prime games feels intimidating. You don't need cheesy dialog for that.

 

[Entryhazard]

Are we now shitting on Fusion? This is really getting ugly

 

[mantidor]

Did OP survive?

I need to read this whole thread.

 

[Garlador]

Are we now shitting on Fusion? This is really getting ugly

Fusion is a great game, but don't pretend it doesn't have some serious flaws.

I myself got locked out of exploring the rest of the game without warning and had to fight the final boss, even though I really didn't want to yet. There was so much more of the game to explore, but A.I. Adam told me I had to finish the game now...

And I never warmed up to the Fusion Suit (aka "The Clown Suit"). Such garish coloring. Looks like she tried to squeeze into a suit made of neon bubblegum.

... So, yeah, even great games have flaws. My friend said that Other M was basically the same as Fusion, only they got rid of the great parts and emphasized the bad parts.

 

[Neff]

Samus is sort of like Gordon Freeman. She is someone the player can project themselves into.

And we'd probably have the same problem if Valve decided to give Freeman a voice and motives which clashed with the way a portion of his fanbase had projected themselves.

At the end of the day, it's not for us to decide how these characters should or shouldn't be.

That's as badass as you can get.

Lol, I'm really not seeing it, or at least not seeing anything which conflicts with Other M's Samus.

 

[direct_quote]

And we'd probably have the same problem if Valve decided to give Freeman a voice and motives which clashed with the way a portion of his fanbase had projected themselves.

At the end of the day, it's not for us to decide how these characters should or shouldn't be.



Lol, I'm really not seeing it, or at least not seeing anything which conflicts with Other M's Samus.

In addition to the other m characterization clashing with how she was in the previous games, it is a terrible characterization for a rouge bounty hunter in itself.

 

[Garlador]

And we'd probably have the same problem if Valve decided to give Freeman a voice and motives which clashed with the way a portion of his fanbase had projected themselves.

At the end of the day, it's not for us to decide how these characters should or shouldn't be.

I know you have quite the reputation as an Other M defender (hi, I'm Nick, btw... staunchly opposed to every facet of Other M), but I feel that, while you are correct that an artist ultimately is the one in charge of the art, the reception of the art (or game or story or character) is entirely up to us.

And, by and large, a large percentage felt Samus was not handled correctly.

Inversely, your statement runs counter to much of Nintendo's own game design philosophy (their strength of making players fill the role of the hero).

I'm sure you're aware, but Link in Zelda games bears that name because he's meant to be a "link" between players and the game world... a function Samus serves entirely for the majority of her existence. Even more than Zelda games, Metroid titles have worlds that are just as important as the narrative and characters inhabiting them, and Samus was the bridge, the observational lens, that players saw these worlds through.

It was Miyamoto himself who championed the Prime game's first-person perspective to quite literally let us see directly through Samus's eyes to further enhance our connection, through her, to the game world. Samus wasn't just a character in those games; WE were Samus herself. Samus is us.

The Samus of Other M, as "justified" as the creator is to alter her, is nothing like us, and thus many players struggled to connect to her and, by extension, her view of the game world. Our negative reception of her is just as duly justified.

 

[Mael]

Uh not true, only sector 1 is a recreation of SR388 the rest of the space station is.. Well a space station with different breeding habitats! And even if your argument is based on retreating areas like jungle, fire and water there's still the dark and ice areas which are new along with the robotic interiors. Very nice stuff. Especially after the 8 year hiatus.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the areas of Fusion are not nice.
I'm saying that if Sakamoto remade Metroid II, he would probably include the areas we saw in Fusion (although a cold area would make no sense for SR388).
I'm saying that this is the areas explored in the "main" part :
Metroid : Zebes
Metroid II : SR388
Super Metroid : Zebes
Metroid Other M : Zebes
Metroid Fusion : SR388.

Powerups are stuck in the same way at Super Metroid for no reason.
Fusion was somewhat acceptable because it was a freaking long time since the last Metroid and Samus was getting back her powers against a serious adversary.
I'm calling it, the next Metroid by Sakamoto will be another retread with the same powerups.

In the Prime games (and even Hunters) you got actual original powerups.
Prime reinvented the powerups to work in 3D, and there's the weapon system to mix things up.
Prime 2 revamped the weapons and extended how the powerup worked.
Prime 3 is the biggest change (that they should have gone farther even with the grapple mostly) with a supermode that totally change how you play the game.

And we'd probably have the same problem if Valve decided to give Freeman a voice and motives which clashed with the way a portion of his fanbase had projected themselves.

At the end of the day, it's not for us to decide how these characters should or shouldn't be.

BS.
No voice doesn't mean no personality.
Samus had a personality before, it was subtle but it was there and not in your face.
That certainly changed with Other M.
And get over yourself with how people shouldn't criticize how authors make their character act.

Lol, I'm really not seeing it, or at least not seeing anything which conflicts with Other M's Samus.

She doesn't go in an internal monologue explaining why waving her arm that way would never have been acceptable for Adam.

 

[Overside]

Are we now shitting on Fusion? This is really getting ugly

You are saying this like its a surprise, and that the hardcore metroid fanbase hasnt been criticizing fusion for over a decade, and that the parts of fusion being criticized havent expanded with each iteration, until we get to other m, a game composed entirely of the things wrong with the series that were brought to the table with fusion.

 

[Toa TAK]

Fusion is the shit. The narrative did more for both Adam and Samus than MOM could ever do.

 

[Nintendoga]

Instead of arguing about the bad points and defending them, I think we should ask, Did Other M do anything right? Was there any element or mechanic that Other M did better than any other Metroid? Cause I'm struggling to think of anything. Aside from the obvious graphics.

 

[Mael]

Instead of arguing about the bad points and defending them, I think we should ask, Did Other M do anything right? Was there any element or mechanic that Other M did better than any other Metroid? Cause I'm struggling to think of anything. Aside from the obvious graphics.

Theatre mode, it's probably the easiest game to pop the game and rewatch the cutscenes.
Too bad they're shit.

 

[Neff]

I know you have quite the reputation as an Other M defender (hi, I'm Nick, btw... staunchly opposed to every facet of Other M), but I feel that, while you are correct that an artist ultimately is the one in charge of the art, the reception of the art (or game or story or character) is entirely up to us.

And, by and large, a large percentage felt Samus was not handled correctly.

Inversely, your statement runs counter to much of Nintendo's own game design philosophy (their strength of making players fill the role of the hero).

I'm sure you're aware, but Link in Zelda games bears that name because he's meant to be a "link" between players and the game world... a function Samus serves entirely for the majority of her existence. Even more than Zelda games, Metroid titles have worlds that are just as important as the narrative and characters inhabiting them, and Samus was the bridge, the observational lens, that players saw these worlds through.

It was Miyamoto himself who championed the Prime game's first-person perspective to quite literally let us see directly through Samus's eyes to further enhance our connection, through her, to the game world. Samus wasn't just a character in those games; WE were Samus herself. Samus is us.

The Samus of Other M, as "justified" as the creator is to alter her, is nothing like us, and thus many players struggled to connect to her and, by extension, her view of the game world. Our negative reception of her is just as duly justified.

Sup.

I agree with much of what you say. But my issue isn't with the right to criticise, that right is everyone's. And as strange as it might seem, I'd go along with most of those criticising Other M's Samus, because as a character in her own right, she was pretty crap.

My issue is with those holding Samus up to an ideal which never existed except in people's heads, and calling for blood because Sakamoto -who has for most of Samus' life been in charge of the way she's presented- didn't conduct a survey and implement 25 years of projection and 'badassery'. He can't be taken to task for that, nor can he be accused of 'not getting what the fans want'. He can be accused of failing to make an interesting character from scratch, which he did, and nothing more. Anything else is getting mad at a guy for not being clairvoyant, which is ridiculous and unfair.

 

[Lijik]

i cant remember what the name of it was, but theres a subboss that pops up like six times near the end of the game and it should be a rule you have to drink whenever he shows up.

 

[Mael]

Sup.

I agree with much of what you say. But my issue isn't with the right to criticise, that right is everyone's. And as strange as it might seem, I'd go along with most of those criticising Other M's Samus, because as a character in her own right, she was pretty crap.

I broke up your post because I agree with this part and don't know what to comment there.

My issue is with those holding Samus up to an ideal which never existed except in people's heads, and calling for blood because Sakamoto -who has for most of Samus' life been in charge of the way she's presented- didn't conduct a survey and implement 25 years of projection and 'badassery'. He can't be taken to task for that, nor can he be accused of 'not getting what the fans want'. He can be accused of failing to make an interesting character from scratch, which he did, and nothing more. Anything else is getting mad at a guy for not being clairvoyant, which is ridiculous and unfair.

We got something like 7 to 8 games before Other M, some with VA even.
If we were talking about Link in Zelda it would be different because in universe it's nearly a different Link each and everytime.
In Metroid, it's the same character.
We have a rough description that could have been expanded for Other M.
The problem is that the character presented in Other M actually clash with even the rough description we were given in the other games.
It would have less clashed if he said that no actually Samus was a man in his 50's who's black.

 

[direct_quote]

Sup.

I agree with much of what you say. But my issue isn't with the right to criticise, that right is everyone's. And as strange as it might seem, I'd go along with most of those criticising Other M's Samus, because as a character in her own right, she was pretty crap.

My issue is with those holding Samus up to an ideal which never existed except in people's heads, and calling for blood because Sakamoto -who has for most of Samus' life been in charge of the way she's presented- didn't conduct a survey and implement 25 years of projection and 'badassery'. He can't be taken to task for that, nor can he be accused of 'not getting what the fans want'. He can be accused of failing to make an interesting character from scratch, which he did, and nothing more. Anything else is getting mad at a guy for not being clairvoyant, which is ridiculous and unfair.

If anything they should have made other m a prequel where samus is less experienced. Then it would make more sense to display a character contrary to what we have previously seen as a badass because she is inexperienced and may not have gotten over her family's death yet. Then her character growth and overcoming Ridley would make more sense..

 

[tintin1029]

raised by an ancient wise bird race that acted as her family since her own family died.

This is a big deal to Samus' character, was this ever mentioned in Other M?

Do they ever mention the Chozo's in Other M? Almost seems like a plot point that Sakimoto just straight up forgot about.

All Samus talks about is either Ridley murdering her parents and Adam, almost as if he was her guardian the whole time. What about your actual family, the ones that took care of you? Gave you your badass suit? You scumbag.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Chozo are not in Other M at all.

I have to wonder if that was because Prime and Prime 3 fleshed out the Chozo.

Other M stands proud (lol) with Hunters in this regard and I'm not even confident Hunters didn't mention the Chozo somewhere.

 

[anotherVegan]

You should take a drink any time there is a debate about this game.

How is the OP's liver?

 

[Garlador]

You should take a drink any time there is a debate about this game.

How is the OP's liver?

It's been a non-stop debate for nearly 4 years.
Nobody should have to drink the equivalent of the Great Lakes in alcohol....

 

[HeavyMetalLover91]

Yikes OP, you just wanted to play a drinking game and inadvertently got OtherMGAF out of hiding to once again rage about this over-discussed game.

Spoiler

Yeah, it's no masterpiece, and ignoring the fact that it's a Metroid game it's only decent at best. But really, there are far, far, worse games out there.

 

[Garlador]

Yikes OP, you just wanted to play a drinking game and inadvertently got OtherMGAF out of hiding to once again rage about this over-discussed game.

Spoiler

Yeah, it's no masterpiece, and ignoring the fact that it's a Metroid game it's only decent at best. But really, there are far, far, worse games out there.

Oh, absolutely. There are plenty of worse games. THOUSANDS of worse games.

... But I've never played a game more disappointing and upsetting.

It's like how you can have a friend who always gets in trouble and has a bad reputation; you expect that. But when you see someone you admire and respect slip up, what they do may not be as bad, but you're far more disappointed in them, because they honestly should have known better.