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[Captain_Spanky]

Go home, Captain. You're drunk.

In all seriousness, glad you're getting some fun out of this. Team Ninja was in charge of the gameplay; and for MOM, they did what they do best. I don't really fault them for anything.

Did you really snap this up for 2.50? Maybe some of the baggage I have with this game comes from the fact I bought it at full price; pre-order bonus and all. Metroid Fusion was the source of a lot of great memories as a teenager...and I think I was probably one of the few people in the fandom that thought Adam's character and his relationship with Samus had a lot of potential.

Yeah £2.50 from CEX.

 

[Overside]

Dunno why you're so concerned with what Metroid is supposed to be when you don't remember that a lot of the stuff you hate has always been part of the series.

Nice.

Though you did a nice catch, it is hard to refute the point about what other M's invisible walls did to the experience.

that example, is a lot less intrusive than this:

And it happened constantly in other M, even when there was no need.

 

[avrophantasm]

Nintendo is absurdly cheap, it won't spend money in bribing reviewers

Looking into things, it appears Nintendo has some sort of 10 day loan program, and that's pretty mild. Doesn't seem that costly to the company, either. It's not on the same level as review embargos or pulling ads, but it does seem to have the effect of skewing reception to the positive side. So, it's not so much bribing reviewers, but there's some pressure.

Some reviewers have mentioned that there can be pressure from the fanbase for positive reviews. Perhaps some reviews of unworthy games come out glowing out of fear of another "8.8" debacle. And I suppose giving a positive review to a game that turns out reviled will net you less harassment than giving a well loved/super hyped game a low or even average score.

 

[Dremark]

lol no.

The poor sales and poor critical reception of Other M put the Metroid series on hiatus.

Other M was in the bargain bin a few months after release, unheard of for major Nintendo releases. You can't possibly believe that's the fault of some made up fanbase in your head, right?

Other M was going for $20 the week the game came out. I've never seen a first party Ninth game drop like that.

 

[RagnarokX]

Nice.

Though you did a nice catch, it is hard to refute the point about what other M's invisible walls did to the experience.

that example, is a lot less intrusive than this:

And it happened constantly in other M, even when there was no need.

Yeah, that's bad. They should have at least put a forcefield or something. Ironically Other M is the only Metroid with an in-game justification for invisible walls/ceilings.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Chozo are not in Other M at all.

I have to wonder if that was because Prime and Prime 3 fleshed out the Chozo.

Other M stands proud (lol) with Hunters in this regard and I'm not even confident Hunters didn't mention the Chozo somewhere.

But did Prime 3 (I never played it) conflict with the Chozo of the manga and the NP comic (which the manga seemed to have been influenced by)? Just curious.

Huh the bottleship really is based on Zebes because that's a breeding ground for Mother Brain and the zebesians (or so they call the space pirates now, thanks again for shitting on better Metroid games).

Holy shit. Are you kidding? Please, please tell me you're kidding.

Of course they're called Zebesians -- they're from fucking Zebes.

 

[ChaosXVI]

I too found it extremely odd that for all of Other M's big emphasis on STORY being rammed down your throat throughout the game, not once are the Chozo so much as given a passing reference. I doubt it would have much to do with worrying about interfering with the Prime games, as Sakamoto clearly didn't give a shit about that when it came to the rest of the game's story. Then they just went and decanonized the Prime Trilogy, which I believe is still the last official word on the topic, despite how the events of Prime 1 clearly reference Metroid 1...

Seriously though, why no Chozo? Maybe Sakamoto felt that element of Samus's backstory was too cheesy compared to the absolute shit he wrote for this game?

 

[Mak]

Yeah, they're called Zebesian Space Pirates in Super Metroid and Fusion because they took over Zebes. Sakamoto likened it to people emigrating to American.

The traditional Metroid games didn't directly talk about the Chozo outside of remains of their civilization and the brief flashback and gallery art from Zero Mission, and Other M kinda keeps inline with the previous games. The Chozo are usually talked about in the manuals as backstory, and it was covered in Zero Mission (and the manga). Sakamoto was the one who helped create the Chozo in the original Metroid.

"Sakamoto: The game was headed up by then-newcomers Hirofumi Matsuoka and Hiroji Kiyotake, but when it came to representing the civilization of an undiscovered planet, I’d hand what I’d written to Matsuoka and tell him "Put this in," and he would."​

I thought they would have gone into the Chozo with Samus' backstory too, but they likely decided to keep the story of Other M more focused on other parts of Samus' backstory (it was briefly covered in Zero Mission). There's an interview where Kitaura from D-Rockets mentioned there were some CG scenes weren't working out and were cut, so maybe some of it had to do with Samus' childhood.

In Metroid: Other M the Chozo are referenced
- on Samus' Starship with Chozo scripture
- Samus' Zero Suit with several Chozo symbols
- on Samus' visor with Chozo scripture appearing and translating when you scan

The gallery art for Phantoon mentions it hid in the Wrecked Ship the Chozo used to come to Zebes. http://www.metroid-database.com/mom/artgal2.php

Samus' Starship - http://www.metroid-database.com/mom/artwork/gallery/english/momart74-samus-starship.png

Metroid II vs. Other M

Metroid Prime 1's backstory and lore fits well with the NP comic (and Smash Bros. references) because Nintendo localization mangager Nate Bihldorff is a huge Metroid fan and wrote most of the story and lore to Metroid Prime. (Prime 2 and 3 were all Retro). The art booklet that came with Metroid Prime Trilogy reference's Samus' childhood and Metroid 1 as backstory, and presents the 3 Prime games as their own complete story.

Yoshio Sakamoto talked about the Prime series relation to the traditional series in several interviews for Other M, but this one sums it up best. The Metroid series had been building up a consistent, continuing storyline over several games, and the Prime series was positioned in a way to allow creative freedom to another developer like Retro in respect to the previous work.

Nintendo designer Yoshio Sakamoto on Metroid: Other M - The Globe and Mail - posted Sep 22, 2010
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/tech...o-sakamoto-on-metroid-other-m/article4326830/

- Can you tell us a bit about the story? How does Other M fit into Metroid canon?

Yoshio Sakamoto: The storyline of classical Metroid titles that I have been involved with are connected from the original Metroid for NES or Metroid Zero Mission (a remake on GameBoy Advance), Metroid II for GameBoy, Super Metroid, and Metroid: Other M. It is true that all the Prime titles are chronologically between the original Metroid and Metroid II, but they have so many things that are not in common with the rest of the Metroid story.

Myself, the Metroid Prime producer [Kensuke Tanabe], and Retro Studios decided that the Prime titles would be different from the original Metroid games from a story perspective. This allowed the Retro team to express what we really wanted to express as freely as possible without being bound to the existing storyline or settings.​

The first time Sakamoto talked about Metroid Prime in the timeline was around its Japanese release in 2003.

Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion staff interview - N.O.M. March 2003
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php

About where in the timeline is Prime set?

Sakamoto: The story takes place between the first one on the Famicom Disk System and is followed by Metroid II. I had the idea to make it separately as a gaiden [side story], but wouldn’t it be a cop-out to call it a gaiden? Because of that, I consulted with Tanabe, and things fell into place very naturally. The local staff worked on it really hard, it serves as part of the series, and I think they completed it very well.​

 

[Toxi]

Holy shit. Are you kidding? Please, please tell me you're kidding.

Of course they're called Zebesians -- they're from fucking Zebes.

Actually, they're not. They're rather recent immigrants and in the manga didn't even settle on Zebes until Samus was grown-up. IIRC, they were compared to Americans.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Actually, they're not. They're rather recent immigrants and in the manga didn't even settle on Zebes until Samus was grown-up. IIRC, they were compared to Americans.

So the manga was retconned by Other M, but one detail that's never mentioned in the games is still canon. Gotcha.

Whether they're originally from Zebes or not is irrelevant: either way, they're Zebesians. Nintendo didn't invent a new name for the Space Pirates in order to 'shit on better Metroid games'.

 

[also]

Could remove the reply from the quote, it's actually not helpful at all.

Actually it's worse in this case because there's is less point in dispatching foes in Other M than in even Super Mario 64.
Most of the time you're better served with avoiding them because they don't provide anything of value.
It doesn't make them interesting, it make them pointless...like the arms of a Trex.
Most enemies in Metroid games drop health and ammunition so that you can farm them if needed (like in Metroid 1 & 2), apparently that's something they deemed useless so as a result most enemies are pointless and make the game even less interesting.

You kill enemies so that they don't kill you. Killing all enemies in a room also reveals the location of hidden powerups.
Are you trying to argue that farming enemies for Health/ammo is a good thing? That stuff is terrible and really makes the original Metroid extremely tedious. If you don't save near an uncollected E-tank you are in a for a mind-numbing grind each time you die.

Yes going from one hand pointing the wiimote to left wall to pointing to the screen is not immediate and requires the player to change how his hands are placed on the controller.
It's so very far from ideal it's not even funny.
In that split second, the character is powerless and a sitting duck.
Do I need to explain why it is bad?

As you said, it takes a split second.
Being vulnerable is the whole point of the system. More power = more risk.

And in that walking sequence did you feel like anything could happen at all?

I was feeling anxious because I was waiting for something to jump out at me.
I don't get you, are you saying that cutscenes can't build up tension? Because the walking sections are basically interactive cutscenes.

It is absolutely not unreasonable for a player to expect to be able to jump off a bridge when you are presented with one.
That's how Metroid games work, you see a pit, there's probably something to explore there.
It's quite clear that they locked off most of the geometry of the game so that you never will interact with it whatsoever.

I was referring to this: ''Actually yes, if the level doesn't have a ceiling I fully expect to be able to spacejump out of the map.''

There's a rather limited amount of bosses in the game, most of the playtime will be spent on useless, pointless foes so regardless of the finishing move you won't be seeing most of them for a while.

If you don't count the super-short last story boss, the game has 12 bosses. For comparison:
MP: 12
MP2: 15
MP3: 14

That is STILL better than deciding that it's a good idea to enter an open volcano naked when you have protective clothing at your disposal.
On top of that the authorization system is so badly implemented it only serve to arbitrarily gate the game even further.
The sequence for the grapple beam is hilariously stupid for example,
you see the place you want to go,
don't have the authorization,
backtrack to do some BS,
get the authorization,
can access the place you wanted to go in the 1rst place.
Even a divine intervention to grant Samus her powerback would have been better than the crap they used here.

I already said that the authorization system makes no sense for defensive gear. However, it makes much more sense for limiting offensive weapon than: ''I get damaged every time I begin a new mission.'' We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

No.
Not being able to finish any Action game on Hard would be on me if I had problem with that.
Having issues because the game basically tell me to drop a controller, pick another to perform a simple action is entirely on the game.
Having to stumble on the power bomb when the game basically physically forbade you from using it till a moment they gave no indication for is entirely BS.
the Gravity Ing in Prime 2 required dexterity, Other M's Queen Metroid required foreknowledge.
Other M's last boss is even more BS.
"Here's a room full of foes, you have 5 seconds to decide what to do"
When you have to defend every single BS design decision like the problem is on the player clearly maybe the problem is not with the player.

If you have trouble using the 1st person mode that's on you. I will not budge on this. Some people aren't good at adapting to new control schemes and that's ok, not everyone is good at everything.
No, the Queen and the last story boss required you to use your brain.
-None of the old weapons work -> I must use something else -> What else do I have? -> Use power a power bomb.
-What's the best solution to a problem? Stopping it at the source.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Well, I think Nintendo really wanted MOM to do well. Wouldn't have been out of the ordinary if they slipped IGN a couple of extra bucks to make sure their review was all nice and worshipful.

I don't think Nintendo bribes for reviews nor did I ever wanted to imply the did for Other M.

I do think, however, that mainstream reviewers tend to go a lot easier on Nintendo than they'd do with any other company.

I swear, the shit Other M pulls off would've never been tolerated from anyone else.

 

[dani_dc]

I was feeling anxious because I was waiting for something to jump out at me.
I don't get you, are you saying that cutscenes can't build up tension? Because the walking sections are basically interactive cutscenes.

As you said, it's essentially an interactive cutscene, as such the player can easily realize that there's no consequence to being jumped upon since there's nothing he could do even if that happens due to it's limited controls.
Additionally, all walking sections in the game lead directly to an actual cutscene or to a regular gameplay section with no consequences, so there's literally no reason to be anxious.

If you have trouble using the 1st person mode that's on you. I will not budge on this. Some people aren't good at adapting to new control schemes and that's ok, not everyone is good at everything.

Being in a static position aiming at the screen is not a good control scheme, it's barely a control scheme at all. You can't even see what's behind you, so good luck avoiding off screen enemies knowingly.

Allowing the player to move (even if not as agile as third person Samus) would had done wonders to make first person something interesting and fun.
Instead it's a mode that the player only uses when he's forced to, because there's no advantages or reason to do so otherwise, and if a player needs to be forced to do something, that's usually sign of bad design.

And lets not even mention the game is not even consistent with it's own rules.
To use the grappling beam you need to go to first person, using it immediately changes the camera to third person regardless of how you're grabbing the controller. So chances are that now you're grabbing the wiimote with one hand and aiming it at the screen while being in third person.

The idea of a third and first person view wasn't a bad one, it was just horribly executed, it's hard to think of any way to screw first person view more than "you can't move or do anything other than shoot missiles".

-None of the old weapons work -> I must use something else -> What else do I have? -> Use power a power bomb.

But you don't know you have a power bomb, you have no indication about it's existence, if you never played a Metroid game you don't even know what a power bomb is, much less how to use it.

It would had been different if the game had been building up to it, such having scenes where Samus would go against Adam and turn on upgrades without his authorization (even if only in cutscenes), at least that would be thematically consistent, but the game spent it's entire duration telling you that you can't use upgrades unless Samus is told that she is able to use them.
It's not like in other Metroids were the players gain the ability to use the power bomb, in here the player needs to have previous knowledge of the power bomb existence and how to use it, and then assume that they should go against the logic of the game and use a weapon without any indication that they could do so.

 

[Kontergurke]

Just wanted to add something to the discussion about the "shooting while standing still"-aspect:

Resident Evil 4 is often cited as one of the best action games and in it, you have to stand completely still to shoot your weapons. In fact, you have even less defensive options in "aiming mode" than Samus has in her FPS mode, as Samus can dodge almost any attack even while in first person while Leon can only dodge certain special attacks (that will trigger a button prompt).

Of course, you still have to switch controller and hand positions while in RE4 you just press a button, but the gameplay aspect is basically the same.

I wonder if everyone complaining about having to stand still to shoot also disliked RE4 and similar action games.

But you don't know you have a power bomb, you have no indication about it's existence, if you never played a Metroid game you don't even know what a power bomb is, much less how to use it.

That's not true, you get to use the power bomb in the unskippable tutorial at the start of the game, and it is later mentioned as being one of the most destructive weapons in Samus' arsenal.
Sure, you don't get a notification for being activated, but it's not unreasonable to assume players will remember something they heard at the beginning of the game 7-10 hours ago.

 

[dani_dc]

Just wanted to add something to the discussion about the "shooting while standing still"-aspect:

Resident Evil 4 is often cited as one of the best action games and in it, you have to stand completely still to shoot your weapons. In fact, you have even less defensive options in "aiming mode" than Samus has in her FPS mode, as Samus can dodge almost any attack even while in first person while Leon can only dodge certain special attacks (that will trigger a button prompt).

Of course, you still have to switch controller and hand positions while in RE4 you just press a button, but the gameplay aspect is basically the same.

I wonder if everyone complaining about having to stand still to shoot also disliked RE4 and similar action games.



That's not true, you get to use the power bomb in the unskippable tutorial at the start of the game, and it is later mentioned as being one of the most destructive weapons in Samus' arsenal.
Sure, you don't get a notification for being activated, but it's not unreasonable to assume players will remember something they heard at the beginning of the game 7-10 hours ago.

RE4 has a seamless transition between cameras and control methods, the camera simply zooms in slightly to the shoulder view and goes back in a very quick motion, never breaking the player sense of direction.
As opposed to Other M where you go from any potentially third person view position to first person.
And I think I don't need to explain why pressing/letting go of a button is quicker and more intuitive than changing the entire position of the controller.

This quick and seamless transitions would be enough to make all the difference, but there's still the way enemies in Other M act in comparison to RE4, enemies in Other M are fast due to it roots as an action game, the focus of their behaviours was clearly the third person sections, as such the first person view is actually a sub-par way of dealing with the great majority of enemies in Other M.

Enemies in RE4, on another hand, were made with over-the-should camera in mind as the main action scenario, as such the enemies are slower than Other M and they also have several elements, such as headshots and hitting weapons thrown at you, that reward players for their precise aiming.

Essentially, over-the-shoulder precise aiming is an advantageous action in RE4 that gives several benefits in RE4 and with enemies planned out for this system, while first person in Other M is a subpar method of disposing of enemies.

As I said, the issue isn't the idea, it's the execution.

Sure, you don't get a notification for being activated, but it's not unreasonable to assume players will remember something they heard at the beginning of the game 7-10 hours ago.

Clearly I don't remember that, so I'll concede on that point. But I would say that it is quite unreasonable for the player to remember something that was never used 7-10 hours later, particularly since those 7-10 hours might have been accross a few days or even weeks.

 

[Mak]

After Adam's com headset is destroyed during the Ridley battle, Samus follows a GF trooper and activates the Space Jump and Screw Attack to get across a removed bridge without authorization since communication with Adam was cut off, leading to the cutscene with "Melissa Bergman" (MB) explaining about Sector Zero (unknown to the player, Adam is actually still watching the whole time).

The Metroid Queen boss took me several tries to beat it because in Metroid II: Return of Samus you could use bombs to damage and destroy it from its stomach and I didn't understand why the normal bombs weren't working. Then I held the B button down a little bit and saw it charging and remembered the Power Bombs, which makes sense because the bombs got a more powerful upgrade with Super Metroid.

Throughout the game if you held B after placing a bomb the charge meter for the Power Bombs will fill up and cut off before it reaches the max amount. Power bombs are used on the tutorial and at the beginning of the game and Adam specially mentions avoiding using them because they could vaporize humans. When you use the Grapple Beam on the mouth of the Queen Metroid, the game shows Samus turn into a morph ball and roll down its neck, so you have an idea that bombs are the only attack you can use.

Metroid II: Return of Samus - Queen Metroid boss
https://youtu.be/2-1Oe0FRdCg

Metroid: Other M - Queen Metroid boss
https://youtu.be/1-dpFiqxzpA

When using the Grapple Beam to grapple onto a target, you can continue to point Wii remote at the screen and press A to grapple to the next floating hook.

When switching to 1st person by pointing the Wii Remote to the screen you shouldn't be grabbing the Wii Remote (like they show in the commercial), but sliding it into your right hand and holding B to immediately to lock on to the target Samus was facing in 3rd person. Locking on to an enemy also makes the game slow down so you can respond from the view change.

Samus enters 1st person facing the same direction she was facing in 3rd person. In 3rd person you tap the control pad to dodge attacks, while in 1st person mode you shake the Wii Remote to dodge attacks (like during the 2nd form of Ridley fight in 1st person).

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Also how anyone can dismiss story concerns with a "who cares about story in a Metroid game" is beyond me. The game clearly, really fucking cares. It's over earnestly shoves it in your face for two hours, a third of the time I spent playing this. Christ. Infuriating. And it's all just so...boring. No exploration. No puzzles. No interesting bosses. Ugh. Poop poop poop. I need a drink.

Yeah I just finished. I want to die.

"Producer, Director, Story"
Christ no one in any creative endeavor should be doing all three of those jobs. Two of them are there to be in opposition of each other to stop over indulgent bullshit like this. Fuck this game. I want my £2. 50 back.

 

[Toxi]

Dunno why you're so concerned with what Metroid is supposed to be when you don't remember that a lot of the stuff you hate has always been part of the series.

It's almost as if there's a difference between the placement of those invisible walls, as in one blocks the way to an obvious power-up because otherwise the player could reach it in a way the developer doesn't want them to and the other is just a ceiling because there's nothing in the game beyond that point and without it the player would just infinitely fly upwards.

Also, the invisible wall problem in Other M isn't limited to that room; there's a similar one in the very first area on the BOTTLE SHIP that, again, is just there to prevent the player from getting a power-up in the "wrong" way. There are also many rooms with geometry that doesn't match the visual, leading to nooks and crannies actually being blocked by invisible walls; this is something Metroid Prime got right in 2002.

The closest thing to Other M's invisible walls are the invisible walls in Skytown to prevent Screw Attacking between "rooms" and the wall added over the entrance of Flaahgra's boss chamber in later releases of Metroid Prime to prevent sequence breaking. Neither is near as obnoxious as Other M's variant.

 

[RagnarokX]

It's almost as if there's a difference between the placement of those invisible walls, as in one blocks the way to an obvious power-up because otherwise the player could reach it in a way the developer doesn't want them to and the other is just a ceiling because there's nothing in the game beyond that point and without it the player would just infinitely fly upwards.

Also, the invisible wall problem in Other M isn't limited to that room; there's a similar one in the very first area on the BOTTLE SHIP that, again, is just there to prevent the player from getting a power-up in the "wrong" way. There are also many rooms with geometry that doesn't match the visual, leading to nooks and crannies actually being blocked by invisible walls; this is something Metroid Prime got right in 2002.

The closest thing to Other M's invisible walls are the invisible walls in Skytown to prevent Screw Attacking between "rooms" and the wall added over the entrance of Flaahgra's boss chamber in later releases of Metroid Prime to prevent sequence breaking. Neither is near as obnoxious as Other M's variant.

It's almost as if you didn't read what I was replying to.

Actually yes, if the level doesn't have a ceiling I fully expect to be able to spacejump out of the map.

2D Metroid has always been more constrained by keeping most of the game enclosed, but the few times they Samus had access to open air they had invisible ceilings to prevent her from going where the developers didn't want her to go.

Obviously it's not as bad as invisible walls blocking powerups, but I didn't say it was.

I was also tying it in to the fact that that person also got upset because Samus' powersuit appears and disappears Power Rangers-style despite the fact that it has always been that way and also got upset because the Zebesians were called Zebesians. It's okay to not like those things, but you can't use the history of the franchise as justification because those things are part of that history and "It didn't used to be that way!" is a lie.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Also how anyone can dismiss story concerns with a "who cares about story in a Metroid game" is beyond me. The game clearly, really fucking cares. It's over earnestly shoves it in your face for two hours, a third of the time I spent playing this. Christ. Infuriating. And it's all just so...boring. No exploration. No puzzles. No interesting bosses. Ugh. Poop poop poop. I need a drink.

Yeah I just finished. I want to die.

"Producer, Director, Story"
Christ no one in any creative endeavor should be doing all three of those jobs. Two of them are there to be in opposition of each other to stop over indulgent bullshit like this. Fuck this game. I want my £2. 50 back.

Kojima's got him beat. He is credited as Designer, Writer, Producer, and Director on pretty much all his projects.

 

[Mael]

You kill enemies so that they don't kill you. Killing all enemies in a room also reveals the location of hidden powerups.
Are you trying to argue that farming enemies for Health/ammo is a good thing? That stuff is terrible and really makes the original Metroid extremely tedious. If you don't save near an uncollected E-tank you are in a for a mind-numbing grind each time you die.

It is so far from ideal it might as be on another continent but it's still better than the alternative that makes ANY and ALL encounters pointless.
There's a median between absolutely pointless and absolutely necessary.
Oh and hidden powerups are absurdly pointless and are a mere vestigial design from much better games.
Proof of that is in the Hard mode where they're simply gone.

As you said, it takes a split second.
Being vulnerable is the whole point of the system. More power = more risk.

It's a useless risk as you're better served using another alternative to defeating the enemies.

I was feeling anxious because I was waiting for something to jump out at me.
I don't get you, are you saying that cutscenes can't build up tension? Because the walking sections are basically interactive cutscenes.

NOTHING could jump at you during these sequences. It was never expected and it never happened effectively.
Cutscenes are horrible and pointless in that game anyway, so no they don't build tension.
These sequences are the most relaxing part of the whole game, nothing can happen and you can take as much time as you want.
And they're still there after the cutscene have been triggered anyway.

I was referring to this: ''Actually yes, if the level doesn't have a ceiling I fully expect to be able to spacejump out of the map.''

Well that's actually something that is very consistent in Metroid 1 & 4, you never saw the sky anyway so there was no need to limit the border with an invisible wall.
If you provide a powerup so easily exploitable you better have a rock solid level design that takes advantage of it.

If you don't count the super-short last story boss, the game has 12 bosses. For comparison:
MP: 12
MP2: 15
MP3: 14

And that means the finishing moves are any more frequent how?

I already said that the authorization system makes no sense for defensive gear. However, it makes much more sense for limiting offensive weapon than: ''I get damaged every time I begin a new mission.'' We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

Noted. It totally changes how powerups are given/discovered and makes for a worse experience even on a conceptual level but noted.
The elephant in the room is that there shouldn't be a need to lose powerups and they would need to make more new powerup but heh.

If you have trouble using the 1st person mode that's on you. I will not budge on this. Some people aren't good at adapting to new control schemes and that's ok, not everyone is good at everything.

You misunderstand.
1rst person mode is badly implemented and yet they don't make the game unbeatable, it's a just a pointless thing used to annoy the player.
I tried to use it in sequences they weren't explicitly required, no rewards and more trouble than just dispatching them the normal way.
It's pointless and wasn't meant to be used extensively => missiles expansions are pointless.

And in the sequence we're talking about : the last boss, there's nothing to understand about the 1rst person view.
They put you in a place with multiple foes and give you 5 seconds to trigger the correct sequence. If the correct sequence was dispatch all foes in 5 seconds, yeah the issue would have been with me not being fast enough.
No, it's another BS about triggering the correct action for no reason.

And for the record, I had no problem adapting to stuffs like Red Steel so I'm pretty sure I'm not the problem here.

No, the Queen and the last story boss required you to use your brain.
-None of the old weapons work -> I must use something else -> What else do I have? -> Use power a power bomb.
-What's the best solution to a problem? Stopping it at the source.

You're in a sequence where the queen swallow you and depending on the energy you have left you could have less than 10seconds to react.
And you're supposed to remember that you have a weapon you don't even know you have?
The power bomb is not usable even seconds before that sequence hit, there's no warning nothing. Just react or die.

2D Metroid has always been more constrained by keeping most of the game enclosed, but the few times they Samus had access to open air they had invisible ceilings to prevent her from going where the developers didn't want her to go.

Obviously it's not as bad as invisible walls blocking powerups, but I didn't say it was.

I was also tying it in to the fact that that person also got upset because Samus' powersuit appears and disappears Power Rangers-style despite the fact that it has always been that way and also got upset because the Zebesians were called Zebesians. It's okay to not like those things, but you can't use the history of the franchise as justification because those things are part of that history and "It didn't used to be that way!" is a lie.

Because something was in Super Metroid doesn't mean that it's immune from criticism.
The powerranger style armor for Samus is downright dumb, whether or not it's present in the other Metroid is not that important and was never an issue in the other games because they were never a moment that puts you in the position to say "My god, this is fucking dumb" like that Ridley cutscene (or the one with Adam after that).
My tangent on Zebesian is mostly because Space Pirates are NOT originally from Zebes, Samus of all people should have known that.
But I guess Adam hadn't authorized Samus to use that knowledge...

 

[Neoxon]

Also how anyone can dismiss story concerns with a "who cares about story in a Metroid game" is beyond me. The game clearly, really fucking cares. It's over earnestly shoves it in your face for two hours, a third of the time I spent playing this. Christ. Infuriating. And it's all just so...boring. No exploration. No puzzles. No interesting bosses. Ugh. Poop poop poop. I need a drink.

Yeah I just finished. I want to die.

"Producer, Director, Story"
Christ no one in any creative endeavor should be doing all three of those jobs. Two of them are there to be in opposition of each other to stop over indulgent bullshit like this. Fuck this game. I want my £2. 50 back.

How are you still alive?

 

[RagnarokX]

Because something was in Super Metroid doesn't mean that it's immune from criticism.
The powerranger style armor for Samus is downright dumb, whether or not it's present in the other Metroid is not that important and was never an issue in the other games because they were never a moment that puts you in the position to say "My god, this is fucking dumb" like that Ridley cutscene (or the one with Adam after that).
My tangent on Zebesian is mostly because Space Pirates are NOT originally from Zebes, Samus of all people should have known that.
But I guess Adam hadn't authorized Samus to use that knowledge...

You're argument was that Other M was shitting on the older games by doing what the older games did. As I said it doesn't mean that you can't criticize those things, but you can't use them as examples of why Other M is worse.

Zero Mission features a fairly long segment where Samus can't use her Power Suit because her fighting spirit was broken. In Prime her suit completely downgraded because of a small explosion. Ing were able to steal her upgrades in Prime 2.

The Zebesians have only ever been known as Zebesians. Regardless of their status as immigrants, they made Zebes their home and Zebesians is what the universe knows them as. Space Pirates are the organization to which they belong, which includes other creatures such as Kihunters, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, Phantoon, etc.

 

[Griss]

You're argument was that Other M was shitting on the older games by doing what the older games did. As I said it doesn't mean that you can't criticize those things, but you can't use them as examples of why Other M is worse.

Zero Mission features a fairly long segment where Samus can't use her Power Suit because her fighting spirit was broken. In Prime her suit completely downgraded because of a small explosion. Ing were able to steal her upgrades in Prime 2.

The Zebesians have only ever been known as Zebesians. Regardless of their status as immigrants, they made Zebes their home and Zebesians is what the universe knows them as. Space Pirates are the organization to which they belong, which includes other creatures such as Kihunters, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, Phantoon, etc.

As to the bolded... what?!? I've played through Zero Mission 3-4 times, and I know for a fact that the bolded never happens. What DOES happen is that Samus gets off the ground, thinks she's safe, removes her suit (indicated by a 'flash' as usual - something I have always thought is and was due to the limitations of the media), then is suddenly surrounded and shot down before she can get her suit back on. She even says she doesn't have her suit with her in a text monologue, but her 'fighting spirit' is obviously fine as she immediately goes to break into the pirate base.

I mean, she goes in there to get her suit back, right? Why would she bother if it was just a temporary emotional meltdown?

Where do you get this stuff?

 

[Mael]

You're argument was that Other M was shitting on the older games by doing what the older games did. As I said it doesn't mean that you can't criticize those things, but you can't use them as examples of why Other M is worse.

This is pretty much the story of Other M, it takes what were minor issues or barely noticeable before and magnify them to a level where you only see that.
The invisible walls are a good example.
In a good game like Prime 3, when you enter the frigate at the beginning you can't jump into the void.
Why? Because the place is made so that the people who made the ship put forcefield to avoid people from falling out of the ship.
Beginning part of Other M, you start on a small platform out of your ship, small barriers everywhere. You can jump to see what's below? Nope, invisible walls because FU no exploration for you.
For all the criticism Prime 3 got for being too gamey, it's downright a perfect representation of nature in comparison.

Zero Mission features a fairly long segment where Samus can't use her Power Suit because her fighting spirit was broken. In Prime her suit completely downgraded because of a small explosion. Ing were able to steal her upgrades in Prime 2.

Heh, pretty sure you invented that part for Zero Mission.
The game only shows that Samus is shipwrecked and removes her suit.
It's never stated why, could be a malfunction or something else.
It's never implied anywhere that there was anything wrong with her mentally.

The Zebesians have only ever been known as Zebesians. Regardless of their status as immigrants, they made Zebes their home and Zebesians is what the universe knows them as. Space Pirates are the organization to which they belong, which includes other creatures such as Kihunters, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, Phantoon, etc.

I blame Other M shitty script for implying that the Space Pirates are only the Zebesians and that they're native from Zebes.

 

[dani_dc]

The Metroid Queen boss took me several tries to beat it because in Metroid II: Return of Samus you could use bombs to damage and destroy it from its stomach and I didn't understand why the normal bombs weren't working. Then I held the B button down a little bit and saw it charging and remembered the Power Bombs, which makes sense because the bombs got a more powerful upgrade with Super Metroid.

Throughout the game if you held B after placing a bomb the charge meter for the Power Bombs will fill up and cut off before it reaches the max amount. Power bombs are used on the tutorial and at the beginning of the game and Adam specially mentions avoiding using them because they could vaporize humans. When you use the Grapple Beam on the mouth of the Queen Metroid, the game shows Samus turn into a morph ball and roll down its neck, so you have an idea that bombs are the only attack you can use.

So you remembered the Power Bomb mechanic not because of the game itself, but because you held down the B button since there was nothing else you could do and then you remembered an upgrade from a different game all together.

I'm not sure why you're bringing the early game tutorial of a mechanic that's never used during the game until the final boss, clearly you didn't remember it yourself otherwise you wouldn't be remembering Super Metroid to begin with, the player can't be expected to remember mechanics from 7-10 (in-game) hours ago that are never used.

When using the Grapple Beam to grapple onto a target, you can continue to point Wii remote at the screen and press A to grapple to the next floating hook.

Yes, you can continue doing so, the point is that it's inconsistent with the game own mechanics, you're in third person camera while in first person "mode" in regards to controls, making it very unnatural compared to the all of the other game mechanics.

When switching to 1st person by pointing the Wii Remote to the screen you shouldn't be grabbing the Wii Remote (like they show in the commercial), but sliding it into your right hand and holding B to immediately to lock on to the target Samus was facing in 3rd person. Locking on to an enemy also makes the game slow down so you can respond from the view change.

I'm not sure how you're supposed to "slide" the wiimote that you're grabbing horizontally to a vertical position, you need to grab it either way.
Plus, as you mentioned, even the advertising shows the person grabbing the wiimote.

Samus enters 1st person facing the same direction she was facing in 3rd person. In 3rd person you tap the control pad to dodge attacks, while in 1st person mode you shake the Wii Remote to dodge attacks (like during the 2nd form of Ridley fight in 1st person).

This is irrelevant to the player since the issue isn't Samus directions but the fact that the third person and first person camera are completely disconnected (example: side camera to first person), putting the player is a completely different perspective even if Samus is still looking at the same target.

Going back to the RE4 example, the camera simply zooms in while maintaining the player orientation the same as before, thus not breaking the player perspective of the scene as Other M does.

In 3rd person you tap the control pad to dodge attacks, while in 1st person mode you shake the Wii Remote to dodge attacks (like during the 2nd form of Ridley fight in 1st person).

The issue with first person and dodging is that you can't see enemies outside of the camera, and the limited movement doesn't allow you to move in a way to compensate for that as you could do in regular first person games.

 

[Mak]

Zero Mission features a fairly long segment where Samus can't use her Power Suit because her fighting spirit was broken.

As to the bolded... what?!? I've played through Zero Mission 3-4 times, and I know for a fact that the bolded never happens. What DOES happen is that Samus gets off the ground, thinks she's safe, removes her suit (indicated by a 'flash' as usual - something I have always thought is and was due to the limitations of the media), then is suddenly surrounded and shot down before she can get her suit back on. She even says she doesn't have her suit with her in a text monologue, but her 'fighting spirit' is obviously fine as she immediately goes to break into the pirate base.

I mean, she goes in there to get her suit back, right? Why would she bother if it was just a temporary emotional meltdown?

Where do you get this stuff?

After Samus removes her suit after the mission is "over" and caught off guard gets shot down, she goes through the pirate ship and to the Chozo ruins to acquire the new "Legendary Powersuit" and clear her mind so she can use it. Its a reason to have Samus outside of her powersuit like in the first Metroid.

Samus: "The timing of my escape couldn't have been worse. I was attacked by Space Pirates and left nearly defenseless, stripped of my Power Suit. All I had for protection was my rather useless emergency pistol. Infiltrating the Space Pirate Mother Ship so armed may have been foolish, but I had no choice...
Could I survive long enough to escape?"

Metroid Q & A with Sakamoto - Metroid Zero Mission Official Website 2004
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/faq.php

Why does her suit come off when Samus is escaping inside her spaceship?

Sakamoto: For Samus's suit to appear, considerable powers of concentration are necessary. In short, it was too constraining. It's the same as a salary man loosening his necktie when returning from a business trip on the bullet train.​

Why do some of Samus's abilities have an unknown function?

These abilities cannot be used in Samus's initial suit. These abilities will be known when you collect the Legendary Power Suit. Please keep trying!​

Why is power suit in the beginning different from the Legendary Power Suit? Is it the same one granted by the Chozo?

Only the chosen few can wear the Legendary Power Suit. Those who prevail over the trials of the spirit of the mural (God of War) can itegrate it within their body.​

In this version when you first pick up the Varia suit, the suit doesn't change, why is the Suit that Samus puts on incomplete?

The Power Suit that Samus wore in the first half was not the Legendary Power Suit. In the Legendary Power Suit, the Varia Suit gains efficiency and so its form changes.​

Isn't Samus's powered suit integrated with her whole body? After you destroy Mother Brain, and on the way back pursued by space pirates, Zebes is falling apart. Why does she lose her suit when it should be integrated with her? That's my first question. Thank you very much!

Sakamoto: For Samus to remain connected with the Power Suit requires mental energy unfathomable to an ordinary person. In situations like this when she is under pressure, indeed, even Samus is unable to concentrate her mental energy. However, when Samus completes the trial of the spirit of the mural (God of War), she regains her strong force of will and can successfully integrate with the Legendary Power Suit.​

So you remembered the Power Bomb mechanic not because of the game itself, but because you held down the B button since there was nothing else you could do and then you remembered an upgrade from a different game all together.

I'm not sure why you're bringing the early game tutorial of a mechanic that's never used during the game until the final boss, clearly you didn't remember it yourself otherwise you wouldn't be remembering Super Metroid to begin with, the player can't be expected to remember mechanics from 7-10 (in-game) hours ago that are never used.

I played Other M in 1 night like Fusion and Zero Mission.

The Metroid Queen was a returning boss from Metroid 2 where you could destroy by using the morph ball to roll into its mouth and plant bombs in its stomach. When I realized what Samus had to do by targeting the Queen's mouth and going into morph ball mode I was estatic because it was awesome that they were including this part from Metroid 2. I was confused because normal bombs weren't working before I died and it should have worked and bothered me that it didn't.

Then I remembered Power Bombs from the beginning of the the game when I pressed 1 a little longer and noticed the charge meter filled up like it would throughout the game when in morph ball mode.

When Samus is in morph ball mode she can only plant bombs with 1 or jump with 2. There are only so many things to do with the buttons you can press, and one of the fundamentals of a video game is figuring out what to do and trying again until you get it right.

If you don't figure out to use Power Bombs on the first try, the game restarts you at the check point right before Samus morph balls in the Queen's mouth, not at the start of the boss battle.

I was referring to Super Metroid in that starting with the SNES game, the bombs received an upgrade, the power bombs, which reappeared in Fusion and Zero Mission, so of course it makes sense that you'd use power bombs instead of normal ones. Not because I was remembering Super Metroid when playing Other M. In the same way it makes sense that in the original Metroid if normal bombs made Metroids detach from Samus, then the upgraded version in Super Metroid would kill a Metroid after 3 explosions.


Zebesian Space Pirates

Super Metroid (1994)

Super Metroid Nintendo Power comic 1994
Space Pirates take over Zebes - http://www.metroid-database.com/manga/super_metroid_comics/ch_0004/npcomics_4-2.jpg
"Zebesian" - http://www.metroid-database.com/manga/super_metroid_comics/ch_0002/scaled/sc_npcomics_2-3.jpg

Metroid Fusion (2002)

Metroid Zero Mission Q & A with fans (2004)
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/faq.php

Since the color of each kind of Zebesian Space Pirate is different, do you think they are each different classes?

Hey, I like that. It's a different kind of image.​

Do you think the Zebesians will be protagonists of a minigame?

I hadn't thought of that until now. I'll talk about it with my staff sometime...​

The Space Pirates' commander in chief, Ridley, is not a Zebesian, how did he become the Space Pirates' commander in chief when they are mostly made up of Zebesians?

Probably because he's incredibly evil or very strong?​

Bigtroid (Age 16): I want to hear from all the staff. In the Magazine Z serialized Metroid Manga, Space Pirates weren't originally from Zebes, and after attacking Zebes, they created their headquarters/main base, why did they call themselves "Zebesians"? Please tell me why.

It's like how people who have emigrated to America will call themselves Americans.​

 

[RagnarokX]

This is pretty much the story of Other M, it takes what were minor issues or barely noticeable before and magnify them to a level where you only see that.
The invisible walls are a good example.
In a good game like Prime 3, when you enter the frigate at the beginning you can't jump into the void.
Why? Because the place is made so that the people who made the ship put forcefield to avoid people from falling out of the ship.
Beginning part of Other M, you start on a small platform out of your ship, small barriers everywhere. You can jump to see what's below? Nope, invisible walls because FU no exploration for you.
For all the criticism Prime 3 got for being too gamey, it's downright a perfect representation of nature in comparison.

You were just ignorant of the past. The suit has been depicted the way it is in every game but Prime 1 and that's only because in Prime 1 she never takes it off. On top of that the suit transforms in the middle of the game as you aquire upgrades, changing shape and color in flashes of light. Hell, the morphball is a huge part of Samus' arsenal and the Prime games depicted that as Samus literally transforming into a ball of energy inside the ball. Zebesians were always called Zebesians. Super Metroid invisible ceilings have no forcefields.

Heh, pretty sure you invented that part for Zero Mission.
The game only shows that Samus is shipwrecked and removes her suit.
It's never stated why, could be a malfunction or something else.
It's never implied anywhere that there was anything wrong with her mentally.

Zero Mission interview:

Q: "Why does her suit come off when Samus is escaping inside her spaceship?"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "For Samus's suit to appear, considerable powers of concentration are necessary. In short, it was too constraining. It's the same as a salary man loosening his necktie when returning from a business trip on the bullet train."

Q: "Isn't Samus's powered suit integrated with her whole body? After you destroy Mother Brain, and on the way back pursued by space pirates, Zebes is falling apart. Why does she lose her suit when it should be integrated with her. That's my first question. Thank you very much!"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "For Samus to remain connected with the Power Suit requires mental energy unfathomable to an ordinary person. In situations like this when she is under pressure, indeed, even Samus is unable to concentrate her mental energy. However, when Samus completes the trial of the spirit of the mural (God of War), she regains her strong force of will and can successfully integrate with the Legendary Power Suit."

I blame Other M shitty script for implying that the Space Pirates are only the Zebesians and that they're native from Zebes.

It doesn't imply that they are native to Zebes. Here's every mention of Zebesians in Other M:

"Adam, are you seeing this? It's a Zebesian...but it's been cybernetically enhanced. What is this thing?

"In order to make it happen, they were attempting to create an organization modeled after the Space Pirates, with the Zebesians at the center."

"I felt there was a real danger here. That if left as is, the Zebesians would continue to evolve and resurrect as real Space Pirates."

Say that the Zebesians, under Ridley's influence, became super aggressive... Would that really lead to the resurrection of the Space Pirates? Without a malicious force to lead them down that path, wouldn't they continue to merely follow their instincts, ultimately becoming no more than a swarm of feral creatures?"

All the game says is that they are called Zebesians, like they've always been called, and they are part of the Space Pirates. The Zebesians are at the center of the Space Pirate organization model, not the entire organization. If left unchecked, the cloned Zebesians could resurrect the Space Pirate organization for real, but without leadership they might just become feral monsters.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Zero Mission interview:

Q: "Why does her suit come off when Samus is escaping inside her spaceship?"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "For Samus's suit to appear, considerable powers of concentration are necessary. In short, it was too constraining. It's the same as a salary man loosening his necktie when returning from a business trip on the bullet train."

Q: "Isn't Samus's powered suit integrated with her whole body? After you destroy Mother Brain, and on the way back pursued by space pirates, Zebes is falling apart. Why does she lose her suit when it should be integrated with her. That's my first question. Thank you very much!"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "For Samus to remain connected with the Power Suit requires mental energy unfathomable to an ordinary person. In situations like this when she is under pressure, indeed, even Samus is unable to concentrate her mental energy. However, when Samus completes the trial of the spirit of the mural (God of War), she regains her strong force of will and can successfully integrate with the Legendary Power Suit."

I don't care what Sakamoto claims, that's an absolute horseshit retcon and not at all what actually happened in Zero Mission.

 

[Mael]

You were just ignorant of the past. The suit has been depicted the way it is in every game but Prime 1 and that's only because in Prime 1 she never takes it off. On top of that the suit transforms in the middle of the game as you aquire upgrades, changing shape and color in flashes of light. Zebesians were always called Zebesians. Super Metroid invisible ceilings have no forcefields.

There's one game where Samus's armor is unambiguously depicted as not a physical object (because of hardware limitation or other reasons) : Metroid Other M.
I wasn't aware that power rangers suit get upgrades.

Super Metroid's invisible ceilings (2 in the whole game) are quite a bit different than pretty much the whole of Other M being more gated than a French castle under siege.

Zero Mission interview:

Q: "Why does her suit come off when Samus is escaping inside her spaceship?"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "For Samus's suit to appear, considerable powers of concentration are necessary. In short, it was too constraining. It's the same as a salary man loosening his necktie when returning from a business trip on the bullet train."

Q: "Isn't Samus's powered suit integrated with her whole body? After you destroy Mother Brain, and on the way back pursued by space pirates, Zebes is falling apart. Why does she lose her suit when it should be integrated with her. That's my first question. Thank you very much!"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "For Samus to remain connected with the Power Suit requires mental energy unfathomable to an ordinary person. In situations like this when she is under pressure, indeed, even Samus is unable to concentrate her mental energy. However, when Samus completes the trial of the spirit of the mural (God of War), she regains her strong force of will and can successfully integrate with the Legendary Power Suit."

So....not the game.
This is not the way the game present the situation, on a GBA you would think that they would be more competent than that.
There's an interview from Hirofumi Matsuoka saying that Samus is a transwoman, the guy actually designed Samus.

It doesn't imply that they are native to Zebes. Here's every mention of Zebesians in Other M:

"Adam, are you seeing this? It's a Zebesian...but it's been cybernetically enhanced. What is this thing?

"In order to make it happen, they were attempting to create an organization modeled after the Space Pirates, with the Zebesians at the center."

"I felt there was a real danger here. That if left as is, the Zebesians would continue to evolve and resurrect as real Space Pirates."

Say that the Zebesians, under Ridley's influence, became super aggressive... Would that really lead to the resurrection of the Space Pirates? Without a malicious force to lead them down that path, wouldn't they continue to merely follow their instincts, ultimately becoming no more than a swarm of feral creatures?"

All the game says is that they are called Zebesians, like they've always been called, and they are part of the Space Pirates. The Zebesians are at the center of the Space Pirate organization model, not the entire organization. If left unchecked, the cloned Zebesians could resurrect the Space Pirate organization for real, but without leadership they might just become feral monsters.

Again I blame Other M for my misunderstanding on this.

 

[RagnarokX]

There's one game where Samus's armor is unambiguously depicted as not a physical object (because of hardware limitation or other reasons) : Metroid Other M.
I wasn't aware that power rangers suit get upgrades.

Super Metroid's invisible ceilings (2 in the whole game) are quite a bit different than pretty much the whole of Other M being more gated than a French castle under siege.


So....not the game.
This is not the way the game present the situation, on a GBA you would think that they would be more competent than that.
There's an interview from Hirofumi Matsuoka saying that Samus is a transwoman, the guy actually designed Samus.



Again I blame Other M for my misunderstanding on this.

It is depicted as a physical object; otherwise it wouldn't be armor. The suit is tied to Samus' ability to concentrate, and the two times it malfunctioned were when her parent-murdering space dragon who she thought was dead for good squeezed her really hard after she had a short PTSD episode and when the person she thought she trusted the most shot her, both of which are better than just being bummed out cuz your ship got shot down.

Super Metroid's invisible ceilings are no different from the invisible ceilings and walls in Other M and the Prime games that prevent you from escaping the arbitrary world boundaries.

That's Sakamoto's official word on it. Also we know in-game that her suit wasn't damaged because she still has everything she collected from before she crashed. How would the suit be damaged while she wasn't wearing it, anyway? It was chilling in hammer space.

I don't see how it's Other M's fault that you apparently didn't know that the Zebesians have always been called Zebesians and made you unable to comprehend unambiguous information.

I don't care what Sakamoto claims, that's an absolute horseshit retcon and not at all what actually happened in Zero Mission.

What happens in Zero Mission? Samus never says her suit is damaged. Her suit is never shown as being damaged. When you acquire the Legendary Power Suit you have all of the upgrades you collected earlier and the previously incompatible components unlock. This explanation was put on the official Zero Mission Website back in 2004, the year the game came out.

 

[Mael]

It is depicted as a physical object; otherwise it wouldn't be armor. The suit is tied to Samus' ability to concentrate, and the two times it malfunctioned were when her parent-murdering space dragon who she thought was dead for good squeezed her really hard after she had a short PTSD episode and when the person she thought she trusted the most shot her, both of which are better than just being bummed out cuz your ship got shot down.

All events conveniently found in the worst thing with the name Metroid on it and an unnecessary remake that was there to reframe the franchise more inline with Other M...

Super Metroid's invisible ceilings are no different from the invisible ceilings and walls in Other M and the Prime games that prevent you from escaping the arbitrary world boundaries.

If you can't see the difference, I guess it's normal you don't see the difference in quality between Other M and the other Metroid games.

That's Sakamoto's official word on it. Also we know in-game that her suit wasn't damaged because she still has everything she collected from before she crashed. How would the suit be damaged while she wasn't wearing it, anyway? It was chilling in hammer space.

Temporary malfunctions do exists for one.
And why are we talking about the Disney version of Metroid 1 again?

I don't see how it's Other M's fault that you apparently didn't know that the Zebesians have always been called Zebesians and made you unable to comprehend unambiguous information.

I have Super Metroid, with the actual biggass manual and the full walkthrough that goes with it.
My issue with Other M's script isn't that the Zebesians are called Zebesians but that it implied that all Space Pirates were Zebesians.

 

[Griss]

I don't care what Sakamoto claims, that's an absolute horseshit retcon and not at all what actually happened in Zero Mission.

Precisely.

Is it pure incompetence that he can't display what he believes to be happening using visuals on screen or alternatively does he just make up a new context for the game after the fact? Either way, there is no way you could play through Zero Mission and come to the conclusion Sakamoto states in his interview without talking to the man himself. Seeing as how the game must stand on its own (the author is dead), what he says is essentially meaningless bullshit in the context of the game I played and what I experienced.

But man, if I'd known what he was going for all these years I never would have been half as much of a Metroid fan as I was. It's like he blundered into making these great games or something, I can't understand it. Until reading that Zero Mission quote I thought he'd just lost the plot for Other M or something. But it seems like he's had these terrible ideas for quite some time.

 

[Greddleok]

I hate that Other M made out the suit to be some magical energy thing. It was always just a metal suit. No other explanation was needed.

 

[direct_quote]

I hate that Other M made out the suit to be some magical energy thing. It was always just a metal suit. No other explanation was needed.

Or the practicality of a suit that could "come off" at the worst possible time and kill you. I hope Samus isn't in lower Norfair when she has a PTSD episode.

 

[RagnarokX]

I hate that Other M made out the suit to be some magical energy thing. It was always just a metal suit. No other explanation was needed.

It's always been and still was depicted as a metal suit... that can phase in and out of existence like magic:

Metroid 1
Metroid 2
Super Metroid - Bonus: Crystal Flash
Metroid Zero Mission - Bonus: 1 2
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Prime 2
Metroid Prime 3

Or the practicality of a suit that could "come off" at the worst possible time and kill you. I hope Samus isn't in lower Norfair when she has a PTSD episode.

It only came off when she was having some severe mental crisis. It didn't do that if Ridley grabbed her again during the fight.

 

[Mael]

Or the practicality of a suit that could "come off" at the worst possible time and kill you. I hope Samus isn't in lower Norfair when she has a PTSD episode.

Funny that's where Ridley is...
I guess there's a reason why there's no heat damage in Metroid 1...

 

[Griss]

Super Metroid's invisible ceilings are no different from the invisible ceilings and walls in Other M and the Prime games that prevent you from escaping the arbitrary world boundaries.

It's like you're completely ingoring the context of the time when these games were released. One was on the SNES, one on the Wii. On the SNES, everyone would have implicitly understood that the 'sky' must have a 'ceiling' as it's a 2D game. It's an understandable shorthand for 'infinity' in the circumstances, and would be understood as such. It's not an issue.

On the other hand, in a small, 3D room in the 7th generation of games, where part of the gameplay is jumping around looking for expansions, having invisible walls designed to make you go around another way is just horrible level design, and is rightly called out. Ignoring context and trying to tie the two things together as even remotely similar comes across as so disingenuous.

I mean, all they needed to do was realise that players would expect to be able to jump up there, and realise that they needed to redesign that room. But they said 'fuck it, it's good, throw up an invisible wall', and left it. Even just an appearing force field would have worked. The alternative is that the game was so poorly play-tested that no one even caught this, which is almost a more shocking indictment of how the game was made, seeing as how obvious a solution jumping up there is when playing through the game.

What happens in Zero Mission? Samus never says her suit is damaged. Her suit is never shown as being damaged. When you acquire the Legendary Power Suit you have all of the upgrades you collected earlier and the previously incompatible components unlock. This explanation was put on the official Zero Mission Website back in 2004, the year the game came out.

What happens is she takes off the suit, gets shot down, and has to escape the ship before being captured without putting the suit back on. Either the Space Pirates bring the suit into the base or she finds a new, better Chozo suit in the ruins. I would bet that over 95% of people who played the game interpreted the game in this way.

 

[Greddleok]

Most of those I had always thought the light was generated when the suit opened. Thought they're not inconsistent with either interpretation of the suit.

Other than crystal flash. That's energy magic thing. No other explanation. I did assume that it was some energy blast that was like an X-ray showing the inside, but that's a bit of a stretch.
What I've always loved about metroid is that it's so easy to project whatever you want on Samus and the story. The story based metroids have always disappointed me, often because they just shattered things I had essentially made up myself.

 

[RagnarokX]

It's like you're completely ingoring the context of the time when these games were released. One was on the SNES, one on the Wii. On the SNES, everyone would have implicitly understood that the 'sky' must have a 'ceiling' as it's a 2D game. It's an understandable shorthand for 'infinity' in the circumstances, and would be understood as such. It's not an issue.

On the other hand, in a small, 3D room in the 7th generation of games, where part of the gameplay is jumping around looking for expansions, having invisible walls designed to make you go around another way is just horrible level design, and is rightly called out. Ignoring context and trying to tie the two things together as even remotely similar comes across as so disingenuous.

I mean, all they needed to do was realise that players would expect to be able to jump up there, and realise that they needed to redesign that room. But they said 'fuck it, it's good, throw up an invisible wall', and left it. Even just an appearing force field would have worked. The alternative is that the game was so poorly play-tested that no one even caught this, which is almost a more shocking indictment of how the game was made, seeing as how obvious a solution jumping up there is when playing through the game.

I already said that kind of invisible wall is bad. The example Mael gave was an invisible wall that simply kept you from jumping into outer space. Those walls exist for the same reasons. They wanted to have open sky/space and didn't think anyone would be that upset if they put a contrived barrier preventing players from drifting off into infinity rather than cluttering the scenary.

What happens is she takes off the suit, gets shot down, and has to escape the ship before being captured without putting the suit back on. Either the Space Pirates bring the suit into the base or she finds a new, better Chozo suit in the ruins. I would bet that over 95% of people who played the game interpreted the game in this way.

She takes the suit off by willing it out of existence. It's not like she left it on her ship. It's clear she still has it with her when she upgrades it into the Legendary Power Suit.

 

[direct_quote]

Most of those I had always thought the light was generated when the suit opened. Thought they're not inconsistent with either interpretation of the suit.

Other than crystal flash. That's energy magic thing. No other explanation. I did assume that it was some energy blast that was like an X-ray showing the inside, but that's a bit of a stretch.
What I've always loved about metroid is that it's so easy to project whatever you want on Samus and the story. The story based metroids have always disappointed me, often because they just shattered things I had essentially made up myself.

I personally didn't think Samus willed her suit into existence until it was established later by Sakmoto. You see in Metroid III death animation pieces of the suit shatter off, and the crystal flash always seemed like some protective mode for the suit (where it wraps around as a bubble), otherwise Samus would die in any other environment if she were exposed to the harsh conditions. And even with the intro of fusion they remove parts of Samus' power suit due to the SA-X infection, and even Samus could be seen in the intro flying her ship in her suit. So the suit always looked like something Samus wore and took off in my view. I actually preferred it that way.

Willing the suit into existence is pretty dumb, because like I said it introduces a possible fatal fault in the design if it can come off at random times.

 

[Mak]

Hirofumi Matsuoka started the original Metroid with Hiroji Kiyotake before the rest of R&D1 joined.

Hiroji Kiyotake is the designer for Samus' original design in the NES game and is credited for it in Zero Mission and Other M.

Tomomi (Tomoyoshi) Yamane was Samus' Designer for Super Metroid.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/super-metroid/credits

Samus' power suit has been depicted as being "magical" since at least Metroid II. She was basically a power ranger in the original Metroid's advertising. The ending of Super Metroid also shows her suit disappear. The story has evovled to explain that its intergrated with her body.

The 1994 Nintendo Power comic shows it as a separate suit she can will it to put on like Iron Man, while the 2003 Metroid Manga shows it in development as a suit when Samus is young, and intergrated with her body when she's older.

 

[CassSept]

Seems as good a thread as any to ask this.

Is the game clearable in one day? As in, if I didn't play it before due to it's reputation, have no idea how it's played, will I be able to finish it in one day, breaks and fatigue included? I plan to grab a couple of beers (probably not go as hardcore as the op) next Saturday and just marathon the game, both in anticipation of E3 conference following Tuesday (probably to dim my hype) and finally witness the infamous Other M.

Would you say it's a decent enough plan, or is it pointless to approach it that way?

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

The story was written by the main Metroid guy right? Did Team Ninja only do gameplay?

Also OP needs liver transplant lol.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Seems as good a thread as any to ask this.

Is the game clearable in one day? As in, if I didn't play it before due to it's reputation, have no idea how it's played, will I be able to finish it in one day, breaks and fatigue included? I plan to grab a couple of beers (probably not go as hardcore as the op) next Saturday and just marathon the game, both in anticipation of E3 conference following Tuesday (probably to dim my hype) and finally witness the infamous Other M.

Would you say it's a decent enough plan, or is it pointless to approach it that way?

I think it barely took me more than 4 hours on my first playthrough... might be misremembering it, but it's criminally short and thanks to it's linearity getting lost is mostly down to the horrible level design or the idiotic pixel hunt sections.

 

[Astral Dog]

Seems as good a thread as any to ask this.

Is the game clearable in one day? As in, if I didn't play it before due to it's reputation, have no idea how it's played, will I be able to finish it in one day, breaks and fatigue included? I plan to grab a couple of beers (probably not go as hardcore as the op) next Saturday and just marathon the game, both in anticipation of E3 conference following Tuesday (probably to dim my hype) and finally witness the infamous Other M.

Would you say it's a decent enough plan, or is it pointless to approach it that way?

6 to 8 hours seems about right, i would beat it in 2 days to keep sanity, but ...
besides the story, its not that bad.

 

[Magnet_Man]

The story was written by the main Metroid guy right? Did Team Ninja only do gameplay?

Also OP needs liver transplant lol.

Team Ninja did the gameplay, but they were greatly shackled by Yoshio Sakamoto's archaic and horribly misguided concepts of game design. He was the one that insisted on using a control pad in a 3D environment, something unanimously decided was a horrible design way back in the 90s with the PSX and N64, and stuck with it despite the entirety of Team Ninja telling him that was an atrocious idea.

He also came up with sense move and simplifying the maps for fear that new players might have to put some effort which would prevent them from seeing his magnum opus that is Other M's narrative.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Team Ninja did the gameplay, but they were greatly shackled by Yoshio Sakamoto's archaic and horribly misguided concepts of game design. He was the one that insisted on using a control pad in a 3D environment, something unanimously decided was a horrible design way back in the 90s with the PSX and N64, and stuck with it despite the entirety of Team Ninja telling him that was an atrocious idea.

He also came up with sense move and simplifying the maps for fear that new players might have to put some effort which would prevent them from seeing his magnum opus that is Other M's narrative.

Yeah, but Team Ninja were the ones that insisted that the game be fully 3D. Sakamoto wanted it be be like Pandemonium! or Klonoa. It seems Sakamoto's ideas didn't translate to being fully 3D. Anyway, the level design ended up being like ass (for a Metroid game at least). Team Ninja has always been pretty bad at level design... I'm not sure why Sakamoto though they would make a good partner for a Metroid game.

 

[direct_quote]

Yeah, but Team Ninja were the ones that insisted that the game be fully 3D. Sakamoto wanted it be be like Pandemonium! or Klonoa. It seems Sakamoto's ideas didn't translate to being fully 3D. Anyway, the level design ended up being like ass (for a Metroid game at least). Team Ninja has always been pretty bad at level design... I'm not sure why Sakamoto though they would make a good partner for a Metroid game.

NGB has pretty good level design. But after that Team Ninja seemed to forget everything..

 

[CassSept]

Jesus she really says 'baby' in every second sentence. And what us wrong with the voice actor, is she on xanax?