ITT people don't like secrets but love Zelda for some reason
Simon's Quest is the only game I've actually beaten so that one. When people wanted Wart for Smash I'm like "LOL who?"
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The NES Trilogy of Betrayal - Zelda 2, Castlevania 2, Mario 2 -- which is best/worst?
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Simon's Quest is the only game I've actually beaten so that one. When people wanted Wart for Smash I'm like "LOL who?"
Justin Bailey
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Castlevania II doesn't even belong in the same list as the other two. It's barely playable by today's standards.
Zelda II and SMB2 are both still playable and enjoyable, but Zelda II is probably the best since its difficulty makes it the most replayable.
Zelda II and SMB2 are both still playable and enjoyable, but Zelda II is probably the best since its difficulty makes it the most replayable.
thepenguin55
Member
So SMB2 is still great to me.
Zelda 2 is a game where I don't think it would be difficult for Nintendo to smooth out the rough edges with something like a remake which would be great because underneath all of the issues lies a great game.
Castlevania 2 on the other hand, is a irredeemable game in my eyes. It was about 10 years ago that I went through each (non-SOTN) game in the series for the first time and Simon's Quest was a chore to play. Funny story, I weirdly have a memory from way back in the day when my brother rented this game. I was terrified by the town monsters that came out at night for whatever reason. Playing games with my brother are some of my favorite memories so I guess that's one positive thing that I associate with this game.
Zelda 2 is a game where I don't think it would be difficult for Nintendo to smooth out the rough edges with something like a remake which would be great because underneath all of the issues lies a great game.
Castlevania 2 on the other hand, is a irredeemable game in my eyes. It was about 10 years ago that I went through each (non-SOTN) game in the series for the first time and Simon's Quest was a chore to play. Funny story, I weirdly have a memory from way back in the day when my brother rented this game. I was terrified by the town monsters that came out at night for whatever reason. Playing games with my brother are some of my favorite memories so I guess that's one positive thing that I associate with this game.
dickroach
Member
Final Fantasy II never came out on the NES.
and if you're gonna say NES/Famicom is the same thing, then Super Mario Bros 2 a totally different game and nothing makes any sense any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but yeah, SMB2 is the best of those 3 games from the OP.
AtomicShroom
Member
Uh, Metroid 1 did not have an in-game map. What are you smoking?
Hmmm, let's see.
Mario 2: It's not a Mario game so it's hard to fault it for having Mario paint slapped over it.
Castlevania 2: It's not THAT big of a departure from the first game to be honest. But it IS poorly made.
Zelda 2: A purposeful major departure that threw out pretty much everything from the first game.
Mario 2: It's not a Mario game so it's hard to fault it for having Mario paint slapped over it.
Castlevania 2: It's not THAT big of a departure from the first game to be honest. But it IS poorly made.
Zelda 2: A purposeful major departure that threw out pretty much everything from the first game.
You should probably reread what you quoted, he is saying that Metroid needed an in-game map, not that it had one.
SiegfriedFM
Member
Back then a sequel meant "hold on to your pants because we are switching shit up". Pretty much no sequel was the same, except for SMB2j. Except for the ones in OP:
Mega Man: eight bosses, subweapons, energy tanks, and that's still rather close to the original
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: from crazy hard platformer to sidescrolling 2P brawler.
Contra: we're part top-down now because why not?
Street Fighter: nothing major, just adding 300% more playable characters that aren't all the same.
Also: Mario 2 is one of my favourite Marios and Zelda II is probably my second favourite. Simon's Quest is rather bad but it still plays better than CV1.
Mega Man: eight bosses, subweapons, energy tanks, and that's still rather close to the original
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: from crazy hard platformer to sidescrolling 2P brawler.
Contra: we're part top-down now because why not?
Street Fighter: nothing major, just adding 300% more playable characters that aren't all the same.
Also: Mario 2 is one of my favourite Marios and Zelda II is probably my second favourite. Simon's Quest is rather bad but it still plays better than CV1.
mindatlarge
Member
I have fond memories of playing both SMB2 and Zelda II as a kid. Both games were amazing back in the day. Castlevania II was something I didn't play to much later in life. I'd definitely consider all three classics, SMB2 and Zelda II being more memorable, since I played them in my childhood and they are of a higher quality than Castlevania II in my opinion.
Think SMB2 has aged the best, imo. To me, Zelda II could pass as a present day indie game, so I'd say it aged pretty good as well.
Think SMB2 has aged the best, imo. To me, Zelda II could pass as a present day indie game, so I'd say it aged pretty good as well.
cartman414
Member
Castlevania 2 had no challenge whatsoever and yet was obtuse all the same.
Zelda 1 had a tankish controlling Link.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
We didn't get it in the west but fire emblem gaiden, aka fire emblem echoes:SoV was a pretty big departure from the 1st one, big reason being that FE was basically the creator of that genre so were basically just experimenting still
cartman414
Member
The sword/shield mechanic was brilliant.
The first Zelda was really barebones in both combat and puzzles. Zelda II was a major step up even if it ditched the puzzles to focus on combat.
BluePigGanon
Member
All three of those are okay games that just get a hard time for weirdo inside baseball gamer reasons.
SMB2 is probably the best game of the three. Sure it's a departure but it's fun, looks good (better than SMB3 IMO), the controls are great, I mean what's not to love besides "it's not exactly like-" whatever man.
Adventure of Link is second best. Again, most of the criticism is sorta odd "it doesn't fit in my mental Zelda box" stuff, which distracts from the fact it's a great retro action RPG. If Capcom had released it and it had a different name, people would still be waxing nostalgic about it today like they do Bionic Commando or whatever else. The overworld graphics are kinda gross but aside from that it's great.
Simon's Quest is the worst of the three (but still not bad) - just due to some frustrating mechanics and, as many talk about, the fact you can dead end so easily without reading a walkthrough. I haven't replayed it in years but I also remember no real great high point moments: no interesting boss fights, no spectacular backgrounds, no especially hard parts. It's interesting, fun, but sorta a mellow/boring experience.
SMB2 is probably the best game of the three. Sure it's a departure but it's fun, looks good (better than SMB3 IMO), the controls are great, I mean what's not to love besides "it's not exactly like-" whatever man.
Adventure of Link is second best. Again, most of the criticism is sorta odd "it doesn't fit in my mental Zelda box" stuff, which distracts from the fact it's a great retro action RPG. If Capcom had released it and it had a different name, people would still be waxing nostalgic about it today like they do Bionic Commando or whatever else. The overworld graphics are kinda gross but aside from that it's great.
Simon's Quest is the worst of the three (but still not bad) - just due to some frustrating mechanics and, as many talk about, the fact you can dead end so easily without reading a walkthrough. I haven't replayed it in years but I also remember no real great high point moments: no interesting boss fights, no spectacular backgrounds, no especially hard parts. It's interesting, fun, but sorta a mellow/boring experience.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Anybody who hates Mario 2 is no friend of mine.
cartman414
Member
I prefer it to Mario World.
PhantomZone
Member
Zelda II is my favorite game in the entire franchise.
petran79
Banned
Original Vampire Hunter on the MSX involves some backtracking and white crystals. It was the NES version that modified the stages and turned it into an action platformer. Simon's Quest therefore could be considered a true sequel. Want a bad yet ultra hard traditional Castlevania game? Try Castlevania the Adventure on Gameboy.
Zelda 2 was a very good game for an NES title. But it pales in comparison to Wonderboy in Monsterland, that what released the same year (arcade version).
Mario 2 was also a very good game, much easier than 1 and 3. With the best ending too. It is just that when SMB 3 was released, I never bothered with 2 again, in contrast to the originsl.
Zelda 2 was a very good game for an NES title. But it pales in comparison to Wonderboy in Monsterland, that what released the same year (arcade version).
Mario 2 was also a very good game, much easier than 1 and 3. With the best ending too. It is just that when SMB 3 was released, I never bothered with 2 again, in contrast to the originsl.
SMB2 is probably the more accessible of the 3 that's for sure.
Good thing they didn't localize that horrendous rom hack from Japan as the sequel of SMB or that would have killed whatever momentum Mario Mania had at the time.
I'd say SMB2 is legit in the higher tiers of Mario games even, these kinds of quirky sequel like Yoshi Island that don't really follow any kind of prior template but massively built on what little there is.
Zelda 2, I think is the better of the 3. Fantastic game that greatly expand on the adventure feel of the 1st game. It's kinda too bad that they never scaled the adventure back to such height after that though :/.
Difficult but manageable, full blown action game with RPG element that doesn't make the action part trivial.
Castlevania 2 is obtuse, it hasn't clicked with me yet. I absolutely love the take of it in Order of Ecclesia but I won't say it's bad until I manage to really sink my teeth in it.
I don't really think any of these 3 are bad.
If you want a bad Mario platformer, go play Mario Sunshine. A bad Zelda? That's Wind's Waker for you.
A bad Castlevania? there's 2 PS2 Castlevania there and that crappy fighting game too.
all these are way worse than any of their NES (or GB really) counterparts.
Good thing they didn't localize that horrendous rom hack from Japan as the sequel of SMB or that would have killed whatever momentum Mario Mania had at the time.
I'd say SMB2 is legit in the higher tiers of Mario games even, these kinds of quirky sequel like Yoshi Island that don't really follow any kind of prior template but massively built on what little there is.
Zelda 2, I think is the better of the 3. Fantastic game that greatly expand on the adventure feel of the 1st game. It's kinda too bad that they never scaled the adventure back to such height after that though :/.
Difficult but manageable, full blown action game with RPG element that doesn't make the action part trivial.
Castlevania 2 is obtuse, it hasn't clicked with me yet. I absolutely love the take of it in Order of Ecclesia but I won't say it's bad until I manage to really sink my teeth in it.
I don't really think any of these 3 are bad.
If you want a bad Mario platformer, go play Mario Sunshine. A bad Zelda? That's Wind's Waker for you.
A bad Castlevania? there's 2 PS2 Castlevania there and that crappy fighting game too.
all these are way worse than any of their NES (or GB really) counterparts.
Thebullfrog
Member
Let's see:
Simon's Quest is the second best CV of all time right behind Symphony of the Night.
Mario Bros 2 is the weakest of the classic sidescrolling Marios, but still a damn fun game on it's own right. Adventure of Link is still one of the better Zeldas, even if it is balls hard.
Even as a kid I loved how Zelda 2 and CV 2 both tried to think outside the box, and in their own ways were somewhat revolutionary games for the time. The so-called "Trilogy of Betrayal" (lol, that's actually a great term) reminds me a lot of Chrono Cross. Maybe not too hot in terms of being sequels to their respective namesake, but actually really great games when judged on their own merits that don't deserve the hate some people throw their way, just because people are prejudiced by their equally amazing predecessors.
Simon's Quest is the second best CV of all time right behind Symphony of the Night.
Mario Bros 2 is the weakest of the classic sidescrolling Marios, but still a damn fun game on it's own right. Adventure of Link is still one of the better Zeldas, even if it is balls hard.
Even as a kid I loved how Zelda 2 and CV 2 both tried to think outside the box, and in their own ways were somewhat revolutionary games for the time. The so-called "Trilogy of Betrayal" (lol, that's actually a great term) reminds me a lot of Chrono Cross. Maybe not too hot in terms of being sequels to their respective namesake, but actually really great games when judged on their own merits that don't deserve the hate some people throw their way, just because people are prejudiced by their equally amazing predecessors.
Za-Neen-Jya
Member
Played and loved all three. All had tonal and mechanical changes that I thought were interesting and not more of the same. Castlevania 2 had a bad translation that made it difficult to beat without Nintendo Power, but I had a subscription so I made it all the way through. As a kid I just didn't have the skills to beat super hard games like Ninja Gaiden and GhostsnGoblins, so I actually didn't mind that Drac was super easy, the challenge was getting to him. Zelda 2 is still my favorite Zelda to this day. Seeing an Iron Knuckle still brings back PTSD memories. But it was a 'Git Gud' kind of hard, frustrating only until you figured out the secret to beating them. Mario 2 was a treat for us Americans. I never figured out why people would want the Japanese version of Mario 2, it's great we got a reskin of Doki Doki Panic, an excellent game that we would never have seen otherwise. Japanese developers were really experimenting with their IPs back then, and it birthed some real gems. I think today's 'more of the same' mentality when it comes to sequels is the real shame.
polyh3dron
Banned
Simon's Quest is definitely the worst. Zelda 2 is okay IMO (not objectively bad, I just never liked it) and then Mario 2 (which isn't really a betrayal game) is the best by a country mile.
Zelmardonpoktendo
Banned
God I love mario 2
It was completely different , best experience ever
It was completely different , best experience ever
Fast Forward
Member
Mario 2 is definitely by far my favorite of the three. Hell, I would love to see a direct sequel to Mario 2.
John Rabbit
Banned
I love Simon's Quest. One of my all-time favorites. Don't even care.
Adam_Vania
Banned
these are all great. get out of here with "betrayal". internet outrage culture is so shitty and frequently makes bad games out of good games just cos you need material to complain about. Mario 2 is a long-time favorite. it's impossible for me to even consider it, that's how close to the game i am. Zelda 2 is a wonderful sequel.
Castlevania 2 is a forward-thinking masterpiece. i hadn't played it all the way through until a few years ago and was blown away. Simon's Quest is so rich in atmosphere and killer tunes. the leveling up and getting new weapons is very cool to see done so early. nearly 10 years before SOTN!
everyone complains about the crouching crystal thing but its nearly impossible to not know about it. i didn't have an NES growing up and no video game magazine subscriptions and still knew about it. the game is purposefully obtuse and it is part of the charm, part of the world-building. the complaining about the crouching crystal is so tired by now. if you can log into a message board to complain about it, you can easily look it up.
Castlevania 2 is a forward-thinking masterpiece. i hadn't played it all the way through until a few years ago and was blown away. Simon's Quest is so rich in atmosphere and killer tunes. the leveling up and getting new weapons is very cool to see done so early. nearly 10 years before SOTN!
everyone complains about the crouching crystal thing but its nearly impossible to not know about it. i didn't have an NES growing up and no video game magazine subscriptions and still knew about it. the game is purposefully obtuse and it is part of the charm, part of the world-building. the complaining about the crouching crystal is so tired by now. if you can log into a message board to complain about it, you can easily look it up.
Fast Forward
Member
I'm the opposite. As a kid, All-Stars was my go to SNES game, and of the 4 Mario games, while I played them all, Mario 2 was my go to game.
RickFrick'n
Banned
I loved Super Mario Bros. 2 and Zelda II is my most played (and favourite) NES game of all time. I never had a very fun time with Simon's Quest, though... sorry Simon
cartman414
Member
Monster Land makes Zelda II look like Kirby. Action RPGs should not be tied to 1cc arcade mechanics.
I never played Zelda 2 back in the day (I actually never played the original back then either).
I was poor, and couldn't afford many video games, so I only got to play the few I'd borrow from friends and cousins.
With that said, I absolutely loved Super Mario Bros. 2, and thought it was so weird and interesting, and much easier for me to play than Super Mario Bros. 1. I loved the music, the visual direction, and picking up enemies and throwing them at other enemies to kill them. It took me a bit to rewire my brain from "jumping on enemies kills them," but it wasn't too bad. I was about 9 when SMB2 came out, but I really liked it.
Ditto for Castlevania 2. I was surprised at how different it was from Castlevania 1, but I liked the non-linear nature of it. I thought it felt more like I was going on an adventure through a dangerous, cursed land than the level based structure of Castlevania 1. I was 8 when it came out, so of course I didn't have those exact words to describe how I felt about it, but I remember really enjoying it. Castlevania 3, however, blew my fucking mind, and I loved it. It was also one of the few games I owned, and didn't have to borrow. The music in Castlevania 2 is also fantastic, and really stuck with me.
To be honest, it wasn't until I was much older, and started reading thoughts on the games on the internet that I learned that people had such a reaction to CV2 and SMB2.
Then again, I'm one of the guys that loved MGS2 right off the bat, even when the game bait and switched to Raiden. I mean, I didn't like Raiden, but I loved the game, and Kojima for pulling a fast one on me at the time. After MGS4, I have a lot more appreciation for MGS2 as well, but even so, it was a superbly designed game that expanded on the mechanics of MGS1.
I was poor, and couldn't afford many video games, so I only got to play the few I'd borrow from friends and cousins.
With that said, I absolutely loved Super Mario Bros. 2, and thought it was so weird and interesting, and much easier for me to play than Super Mario Bros. 1. I loved the music, the visual direction, and picking up enemies and throwing them at other enemies to kill them. It took me a bit to rewire my brain from "jumping on enemies kills them," but it wasn't too bad. I was about 9 when SMB2 came out, but I really liked it.
Ditto for Castlevania 2. I was surprised at how different it was from Castlevania 1, but I liked the non-linear nature of it. I thought it felt more like I was going on an adventure through a dangerous, cursed land than the level based structure of Castlevania 1. I was 8 when it came out, so of course I didn't have those exact words to describe how I felt about it, but I remember really enjoying it. Castlevania 3, however, blew my fucking mind, and I loved it. It was also one of the few games I owned, and didn't have to borrow. The music in Castlevania 2 is also fantastic, and really stuck with me.
To be honest, it wasn't until I was much older, and started reading thoughts on the games on the internet that I learned that people had such a reaction to CV2 and SMB2.
Then again, I'm one of the guys that loved MGS2 right off the bat, even when the game bait and switched to Raiden. I mean, I didn't like Raiden, but I loved the game, and Kojima for pulling a fast one on me at the time. After MGS4, I have a lot more appreciation for MGS2 as well, but even so, it was a superbly designed game that expanded on the mechanics of MGS1.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I loved all three. Castlevania 2 is the least re-visitable, so that's the worst by default.
Zelda 2 is the one I revisit the most.
Zelda 2 is the one I revisit the most.
DarkConfidant
Member
Came here to post exactly this. OP, those games are classics. FF2 was mediocre af
petran79
Banned
NES games were heavily influenced by arcades,toning down the difficulty.
Watched a 1cc playthrough of WBML too back then. Very hard game.
cartman414
Member
Arcade games were designed to suck out quarters back then.
Lots of arcade to home conversions (i. e. Contra) were improved in the transition to Famicom/NES because they weren't designed with attrition in mind.
If Zelda II had Monster Land's health timer mechanic, there would be absolute riots.
I thought the day and night cycle was really cool outside of this screen interrupting the game.
There was no standard of what a sequel should be. All three of those games tried new shit and got some mix results. So ill commend that. Ill say, when I was a kid no one really liked zelda 2 at all. The rpg aspect just felt foreign to a zelda game even though theres rpg elements in a bunch of nes games. Also the game starts off a bit too hard. The moment to moment gameplay from overworld to towns was not all that exciting.
Zelda 2 is one of those games that took me over a decade to realize its not that bad. The other two games, both flawed, but at the time were just much more atmospheric and much more memorable.
Dont get me wrong, simons quest has some shit design, but that game is so strange, and appealing at the same time. The music is incredible.
Zelda 2 is one of those games that took me over a decade to realize its not that bad. The other two games, both flawed, but at the time were just much more atmospheric and much more memorable.
Dont get me wrong, simons quest has some shit design, but that game is so strange, and appealing at the same time. The music is incredible.
woopWOOP
Member
Only really played through Zelda 2 and SMB2 and had a blast with both. Hell, Zelda 2 is the only Zelda game I enjoyed enough to play until the end so I guess it can be considered my favourite Zelda too. SMB2 is easier to pick up and play tho so I'll go with that one as "best".
Tried Castlevania 2 a little bit with NES Mini. I think the idea is still neat, but it does have that same feel as Final Fantasy 1 on the same system in that it feels slow and rather cumbersome. Maybe I'll try a full playthrough one of these days so I'll know for sure.
Tried Castlevania 2 a little bit with NES Mini. I think the idea is still neat, but it does have that same feel as Final Fantasy 1 on the same system in that it feels slow and rather cumbersome. Maybe I'll try a full playthrough one of these days so I'll know for sure.
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