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The Official Gulf Of Mexico Oil Disaster Thread

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R

RiskyChris

Banned
Vyer said:
Yup.
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So do you disagree that the elements of human error involved in these incidents would be entirely preventable with proper procedure and fail safes?

You seem to hold an issue with my suggestion in particular that the BP well was more than simple human operating error.
 
V

Vyer

Member
RiskyChris said:
So do you disagree that the elements of human error involved in these incidents would be entirely preventable with proper procedure and fail safes?

You seem to hold an issue with my suggestion in particular that the BP well was more than simple human operating error.
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I don't think I said any of that. You seem to want to argue with things that aren't said.

What does it matter? Human error, mechanical error, acts of God; the nature of the error can be taken into account with any process when discussing them. If you believe these errors can magically be splurged in your favorite process over another, well, I'd imagine there are oil guys who feel the same way.
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
Vyer said:
I don't think I said any of that. You seem to want to argue with things that aren't said.

What does it matter? Human error, mechanical error, acts of God; the nature of the error can be taken into account with any process when discussing them. If you believe these errors can magically be splurged in your favorite process over another, well, I'd imagine there are oil guys who feel the same way.
Click to expand...

Yes, errors are magically splurged, it's called tolerance, fail safe mechanisms, and proper procedure. That's the nature of the entire fucking planet.

And yes, the BP oil spill could have massively been prevented in the way that it arose. It was not a case of someone pressing the wrong button.
 
V

Vyer

Member
RiskyChris said:
Yes, errors are magically splurged, it's called tolerance, fail safe mechanisms, and proper procedure. That's the nature of the entire fucking planet.

And yes, the BP oil spill could have massively been prevented in the way that it arose. It was not a case of someone pressing the wrong button.
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And?

So, they all could have been prevented, and they all had errors that led to problems. How does that make discussing them propaganda again?
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
Vyer said:
And?

So, they all could have been prevented, and they all had errors that led to problems. How does that make discussing them propaganda again?
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It doesn't, you're taking every argument I've made and tied it to that word for some reason.

It's propaganda to go "chernobyl" without any critical analysis on what caused that accident. That's about the extent of my use of that word.
 
V

Vyer

Member
RiskyChris said:
It's propaganda to go "chernobyl" without any critical analysis on what caused that accident. That's about the extent of my use of that word.
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No, it's not. It's just a discussion. You want us to believe that one process can eliminate error, I'm sure oil guys will tell us the same. And both of you can scream 'propaganda' to each other all day long, it doesn't make it right.
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
Vyer said:
No, it's not. It's just a discussion. You want us to believe that one process can eliminate error, I'm sure oil guys will tell us the same. And both of you can scream 'propaganda' to each other all day long, it doesn't make it right.
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There is no discussion if you go "nuclear bad, see: chernobyl"

Leaving out the analysis of chernobyl literally is the definition of propaganda, since it tacitly paints a bad light on nuclear energy but doesn't explain the relevance of chernobyl to the greater issue.
 
V

Vyer

Member
RiskyChris said:
There is no discussion if you go "nuclear bad, see: chernobyl"

Leaving out the analysis of chernobyl literally is the definition of propaganda, since it tacitly paints a bad light on nuclear energy but doesn't explain the relevance of chernobyl to the greater issue.
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and what might your analysis be?

EDIT: For the record, I never said 'nuclear bad'. I made that clear in the first post. Only that there are risks involved in that process as well, and it didn't seem right for you to be so dismissive of it (ie 'the whole town?!'). Just because you believe nuclear is foolproof, doesn't mean everything else is 'propaganda'.
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
Vyer said:
and what might your analysis be?
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That the event was gross, gross negligence and wouldn't happen in any respectable modern facility. It is a nonissue for nuclear power, other than as a reminder of why we run plants with standard operating procedures.
 
V

Vyer

Member
RiskyChris said:
That the event was gross, gross negligence and wouldn't happen in any respectable modern facility. .
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The exact same events? Sure, maybe, but how often do the exact same events happen again after any major disaster?

Other than that, there is absolutely no way on God's green (and oil stained) Earth that you can tell everyone that no other error can happen again. If you do, you are full of shit.
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
You don't understand how a nuclear reactor works and are basically going "ooga booga!"

For a non snarky edit: a specific chain of events has to occur to create a nuclear meltdown. Engineering is the art of understanding specifically how processes interact with each other, and fail safes to prevent Chernobyl are absolutely 100% possible to implement, and have been.
 
V

Vyer

Member
RiskyChris said:
You don't understand how a nuclear reactor works and are basically going "ooga booga!"

For a non snarky edit: a specific chain of events has to occur to create a nuclear meltdown. Engineering is the art of understanding specifically how processes interact with each other, and fail safes to prevent Chernobyl are absolutely 100% possible to implement, and have been.
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predictable.
But, I already addressed this angle in a previous post. No reason to rehash.
 
P

PotatoeMasher

Member
Official: Seep found near BP's blown out oil well
NEW ORLEANS – A federal official said Sunday that scientists are concerned about a seep and possible methane seen near BP's busted oil well in the Gulf of Mexico.
Both could be signs there are leaks in the well that's been capped off for three days.
The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Sunday because an announcement about the next steps had not yet been made.
The official is familiar with the spill oversight but would not clarify what is seeping near the well. The official said BP is not complying with the government's demand for more monitoring. BP spokesman Mark Salt declined to comment on the allegation, but said "we continue to work very closely with all government scientists on this."
Retired Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen will make the final decisions on the next step. The official said Allen would issue a letter to BP shortly allowing testing to proceed in 24-hour increments, but also requiring more analysis of the seep and the possible observation of methane over the well.
If Allen doesn't get the response he wants, the testing could stop, the official said.
The custom-built cap that finally cut off the oil flowing from BP's broken well three days ago was holding steady Sunday.


A BP official said the company hoped to leave the cap in place until crews can permanently kill the leak.
That differs from the plan the federal government laid out a day earlier, in which millions more gallons of oil could be released before the cap is connected to tankers at the surface and oil is sent to be collected through a mile of pipes.
Federal officials wary of making the well unstable have said that plan would relieve pressure on the cap and may be the safer option, but it would mean three days of oil flowing into the Gulf before the collection begins.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_...Ec2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDb2ZmaWNpYWxzZWVw

Kill me if it's already been posted, but the article seems fresh and just popped up on Drudge.
 
S

syllogism

Member
Refusing to do something obviously beneficial doesn't really make sense. The bubbles were addressed in today's briefing and aren't anything abnormal though they are obviously keeping an eye on them.

e: I suppose it's not entirely clear if they are talking about the same thing
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
syllogism said:
Refusing to do something obviously beneficial doesn't really make sense. The bubbles were addressed in today's briefing and aren't anything abnormal though they are obviously keeping an eye on them.
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What? You don't see why BP wouldn't monitor something that would get them in deep shit?

I know you've been apologizing for weeks for them, but this is the same as how they are so reluctant to accurately measure flow rate.
 
S

syllogism

Member
RiskyChris said:
What? You don't see why BP wouldn't monitor something that would get them in deep shit?

I know you've been apologizing for weeks for them, but this is the same as how they are so reluctant to accurately measure flow rate.
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Either it gets them into deep shit, ie. it starts leaking more oil, or it won't. They would reduce their liability by taking steps to avoid further damage to the wellbore. They've two ROVs monitoring the area around BOP constantly.

However, It's certainly in BPs interest to downplay the story even if they think it's concerning.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
How do you determine if the seep isn't just natural or if it was caused by BP's stopping methods (or the incident itself)? Would seem impossible.
 
Evolved1

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
ToxicAdam said:
How do you determine if the seep isn't just natural or if it was caused by BP's stopping methods (or the incident itself)? Would seem impossible.
Click to expand...

I imagine it'd be hard unless the seep was unusually heavy...

I need to catch up on these stories -- been out of the loop for a couple weeks.
 
S

syllogism

Member
ToxicAdam said:
How do you determine if the seep isn't just natural or if it was caused by BP's stopping methods (or the incident itself)? Would seem impossible.
Click to expand...
Assuming it's the exact same reservoir it's very difficult, but otherwise oil fingerprinting can accurately determine the origin, at the very least if the concentration is high enough
 
Garcia

Garcia

Member
original.jpg
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
and apparently 75% of the oil has been removed/evaporated.

So, did we overreact or is that 25% still erasing the ecosystem on the south coast?
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
Zenith said:
and apparently 75% of the oil has been removed/evaporated.

So, did we overreact or is that 25% still erasing the ecosystem on the south coast?
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Sounds like complete and utter bullshit. Maybe they're referring to surface-oil. PEACE.
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
Almost three-quarters of the oil spilled in the Gulf of Mexico has been cleaned up or broken down by natural forces, the US government says.

White House energy adviser Carol Browner said only a quarter of the leaked oil posed any further danger to the environment.

The majority had been captured, burned off or evaporated, she said.
Click to expand...

_48605241_oil_spills_224.gif


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10867731

are there any recent youtube videos of the oil covered beaches?
 
K

kevm3

Member
So oil from Exxon Valdez affected us for decades, but the oil from this disaster several magnitudes worse has mostly been broken down by nature in the period of a month or gathered up by those bastions of competence BP. real believable
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
kevm3 said:
So oil from Exxon Valdez affected us for decades, but the oil from this disaster several magnitudes worse has mostly been broken down by nature in the period of a month or gathered up by those bastions of competence BP. real believable
Click to expand...


Well, the conditions of the Valdez spill and where it was released were much different than this one.


Also:

During the first few days after a spill, between 20 to 40 percent of oil's mass turns into gases, and the slick loses most of its water-soluble hydrocarbons—what's left are the more viscous compounds that slow down the oil's spread across the water.
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http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/coal-oil-gas/oil-spill-water-chemistry
 
X

Xeke

Banned
kevm3 said:
So oil from Exxon Valdez affected us for decades, but the oil from this disaster several magnitudes worse has mostly been broken down by nature in the period of a month or gathered up by those bastions of competence BP. real believable
Click to expand...

I believe the Valdez oil was much more potent stuff.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38573593/ns/disaster_in_the_gulf/

BP pumped cement into its blown-out oil well in the Gulf of Mexico on Thursday, hoping to start sealing it for good a day after it forced a slow torrent of heavy mud down the broken wellhead and pushed the crude back to its underground source.

The next step in the so-called "static kill" was another bright spot as the tide appeared to be turning in the months-long battle to contain the oil, with a federal report this week indicating that only about a quarter of the spilled crude remains in the Gulf and is degrading quickly.

Even so, Joey Yerkes, a 43-year-old fisherman in Destin, Fla., said he and other boaters, swimmers and scuba divers continue to find oil and tar balls in areas that have been declared clear.

"The end to the leak is good news, but the damage has been done," Yerkes said.

It could take hours to pump enough fresh cement to fill the well and hours more for it to dry, engineers said. But BP said it decided to begin after testing concluded that it would not do more damage to the ruptured well.

The government's point man on the Gulf oil spill response, Thad Allen, said Thursday in Washington that it could take at least a day for the cement being pumped in the blown well to dry. He said it could take another five to seven days after the cement cures to finish the last part of a nearby relief well.​
 
D

daw840

Member
Sounds like great news so far. Hope everything stays positive on this front.

Although, I can't help but laugh at everyone who absolutely freaked out over this. In the beginning of the thread, if someone so much as said that this isn't the end of the world they were accused of downplaying the most serious disaster EVAR and they are OBVIOUSLY Rush Limbaugh listeners that need to go to HELL!!!!!!
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
BP finishes pumping cement into well

BP says engineers have finished plugging the blown-out Gulf of Mexico well with cement in their effort to permanently seal it.

The company said Thursday that its engineers finished pumping cement into the deep-sea well at 2:15 Central time.

On Wednesday they pumped enough mud into the well to push the oil back to its underground reservoir. Crews must now wait at least a day for the cement to dry.

BP bottled up the leak in July with a cap that was always considered a temporary solution.

Executives say the static kill may permanently plug the well. But either way they plan to pump mud and cement through a relief well this month to forever suffocate the source of the oil. BP said engineers have finished plugging the blown-out Gulf of Mexico well with cement in their effort to permanently seal it.

A day before, crews forced a slow torrent of heavy mud down the broken wellhead to push the crude back to its underground source. This next step in the so-called "static kill" was intended to keep the oil from finding its way back out.

"This is not the end, but it will virtually assure us that there will be no chance of oil leaking into the environment," retired Adm. Thad Allen, who oversees the spill response for the government, said in Washington.​
 
X

Xeke

Banned
daw840 said:
Sounds like great news so far. Hope everything stays positive on this front.

Although, I can't help but laugh at everyone who absolutely freaked out over this. In the beginning of the thread, if someone so much as said that this isn't the end of the world they were accused of downplaying the most serious disaster EVAR and they are OBVIOUSLY Rush Limbaugh listeners that need to go to HELL!!!!!!
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? This was worse than the Asian tsunami and Chernobyl put together.
 
D

daw840

Member
Xeke said:
What are you talking about? This was worse than the Asian tsunami and Chernobyl put together.
Click to expand...


Um....I really don't think so. Thousands of people died in those disasters.

Unless my sarcasm detector is broken...
 
Z

Zenith

Banned
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-barrels-of-oil-simply-disappear-2044817.html

British scientists with extensive experience of oil spills have supported their American counterparts who believe that most of the oil from the Deepwater Horizon disaster in the Gulf of Mexico no longer poses a threat to wildlife.

Only about one-quarter of the estimated 4.9 million barrels of oil from the spill in the Gulf remains as a residue in the environment, according to the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

The other three-quarters no longer poses a significant threat to the environment, having mostly either evaporated or been dispersed, skimmed or burned off from from the sea surface, the NOAA scientists said.

Although the amount of oil still remaining in the environment, nearly 1.3 million barrels, is about five times the amount spilled in the Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska in 1989, scientists believe that it is unlikely to cause as much damage as this notorious spill. The oil from the Gulf of Mexico is lighter than the usual heavy crude oil, and it will be easier to degrade naturally because there is a greater volume of water so it will dilute faster, and the warmer temperatures of the Gulf help bacterial degradation.
Click to expand...
 
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