Support NeoGAF

[Fuu]

I mean seriously, I agree NiGHTS at the time looked pretty good compared to other games in that generation, but we've come so far I don't see what standard it looks good in. I guess if you're a developer or aspiring developer, you can admire on some level what they acheived technically on such a limited platform. But other than that, it's just making excuses for games that are considered classics. The NES controller was ok for the time, but I hope you've all moved passed that as well.

I LOVE NiGHTS, it's one of my favorite all-time games, but I won't make excuses for it. It's ugly as sin now. I am SO looking forward to the PS2 update.

So, you need to be a developer to appreaciate something for the time it came out and to take in consideration the constraints of the console?

I mean, your eyesight got better to notice beauty because now there are more powerful consoles? I never get this notion, you could always compare graphics in games to real life. If it is ugly for you now, it should be ugly then.

Or are gamers only capable of see if something is ugly or not when better graphics come around? Since the Atari it was obvious there was room for improvement, photorealism and all that jazz in games, it was only a matter of evolution of the technology. No one in their right minds should go against the notion that it doesn't look as good as the graphics of current games, but even today I find it to be a beautiful game taking in consideration all of the effort and restrictions of the time it was released.

I'm looking forward to see people saying that Bioshock, MGS4, FFXIII et all look ugly as ass when virtual reality or whatever is the next step on gaming come around.

Heh, so much for not trolling NiGHTS on this thread.

...

I got quite worked up. :lol And fuck, I was typing this bible and during the process I calmed down and the subject ceased to exist on the thread.

I don't know if that's exactly what you meant Amir0x, it's just that I get tired of seeing this "wow, it's so pretty" then when something better comes out everyone is "this looks like shit NOW... but it was so pretty at the time!". Doesn't happen to me, but I guess new graphics cards have the power to change peoples notions and eyesight.

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm pretty sure you can still do laps, but the scoring is different with regards to the time bonus. So we'll have to see how it works out. I can respect Iizuka wanting to make a different game from the original NiGHTS, I just hope his changes don't really take away the enjoyable core elements of NiGHTS.

Yeah, that's my concern. Lapping was one of the best parts of the original.

 

[Instigator]

Yeah at the time it was a nice looking game. I think most people would agree, though, that "at the time" was the optimal phrasing. Anyway, I won't comment anymore on that subject, just had to respond to the statement that I lack a soul if I think it's ugly. That was just a stupid comment.

So NiGHTS Wii! Wow! I hope it's great.

Nah, it's like 8-bit sprites, essentially. There was a challenge to make a pretty game in limited 3D game and with a clear sense of style. One can respect and even appreciate what was accomplished with some of those games.

I would definitely argue the original Nights had much better artistic direction than whatever Nights on Wii is attempting.

 

[Amir0x]

I got quite worked up. :lol And fuck, I was typing this bible and during the process I calmed down and the subject ceased to exist on the thread.

I don't know if that's exactly what you meant Amir0x, it's just that I get tired of seeing this "wow, it's so pretty" then when something better come out everyone is "this looks like shit NOW... but it was so pretty at the time!". Doesn't happen to me, but I guess new graphics cards have the power to change peoples notions and eyesight.

Heh I don't think we should keep this subject line about the original NiGHTS. PM me if you want to continue, or it can best be summarized in "standards change for everything. People's standards change for what constitutes good controls, good graphics, good music and sound. And they always will, as better things come out that render old irrelevant."

So, if that doesn't answer it, PM me and we'll discuss it further.

 

[Fuu]

Heh I don't think we should keep this subject line about the original NiGHTS. PM me if you want to continue, or it can best be summarized in "standards change for everything. People's standards change for what constitutes good controls, good graphics, good music and sound. And they always will, as better things come out that render old irrelevant."

So, if that doesn't answer it, PM me and we'll discuss it further.

It's ok, man. After giving it more thought, I do agree with you that the standards have changed since that time. It's pretentious of me to say I always predicted stuff woud get so graphically close to real life as they are now since it's really not the case.

It all comes down to the fact that it was amazing for the time it was released. Comparing it to what's possible today is batshit crazy, but in no way it takes away the merit of what it accomplished as a game.

I'm sorry for the mini-meltdown, folks, let's get back to the thread purpose now.

 

[Amir0x]

Listening to the music, one thing I'm happy about is that seemed to have got the appropriate feel for a NiGHTS game. It's not AS good as the original from what I've heard, but it still sounds pretty damn good.

 

[ant1532]

They're going to play the game live on On the Spot which is on right now.

http://www.game-spot.com/shows/on-the-spot/

 

[Squeak]

Nah, it's like 8-bit sprites, essentially. There was a challenge to make a pretty game in limited 3D game and with a clear sense of style. One can respect and even appreciate what was accomplished with some of those games.

I would definitely argue the original Nights had much better artistic direction than whatever Nights on Wii is attempting.

QFT.
There is a nice synergy between great art and an intricate understanding and even appriciation of the hardwares limitations in the original game.
It like an artist willingly embracing black and white, even though he is proficient in colour.

Whether it's out of necessity or voluntarily is of little consequence, with a good artist the result is the same.

Most styles are actually founded in artistic limitations, that are still self imposed, even though they have been liftted long ago.
Maybe at some point in the future we are going to see games that actually tries to look like 32bit generation games, because they think it looks cool.

 

[Instigator]

Listening to the music, one thing I'm happy about is that seemed to have got the appropriate feel for a NiGHTS game. It's not AS good as the original from what I've heard, but it still sounds pretty damn good.

If the music doesn't even change between different replays then it's not just a matter of the music not being as good as the original but failing to do what it is supposed to do.

 

[ivysaur12]

I found this interesting video on youtube, the "Making of NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams". It's pretty cool.

 

[Fuu]

I found this interesting video on youtube, the "Making of NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams". It's pretty cool.

Nice find. I don't know if I should watch it now or after playing the game though, as making ofs tend to be more interesting after you experience the product they are about.

 

[sarcoa]

I found this interesting video on youtube, the "Making of NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams". It's pretty cool.

They ID'd Reala as Wiseman twice. Still a pretty informative vid, though.

 

[bigswords]

If I'd pulled that trick with my folks, they'd have shrugged, said 'Suit yourself', and I'd awaken to an empty tree.

And that only counts for the first 7-8 years of my life when they bothered with a tree at all.

When you start working at a full time job, it's christmas every day

 

[D-X]

They're going to play the game live on On the Spot which is on right now.

http://www.game-spot.com/shows/on-the-spot/

And now I know how to pronounce Reala.

Good showcase of the new level, reminds me of Soft Museum but with music as the theme.

They were very cagey on the international release of NiGHTS into Dreams, the whole 'check back in January' thing probably means they don't want to draw attention away from JOD's release.

 

[Y2Kev]

Looks great. Very happy.

 

[Squeak]

Looks great. Very happy.

Sounds awful. Very sad.

Mediocre bland music is not good enough. For this to truly be a NiGHTS games it has to have music at least as good as the original games.

Sega, if you can't do better, please just release the "remake" already announced for PS2, or include the it as an extra on the Journy of Dreams disc.

 

[temjin]

Sounds awful. Very sad.

Mediocre bland music is not good enough. For this to truly be a NiGHTS games it has to have music at least as good as the original games.

Sega, if you can't do better, please just release the "remake" already announced for PS2, or include the it as an extra on the Journy of Dreams disc.

whoa, dude, the music in the new game sounds great! i'm very happy with the music, and can'twait to experience it fully.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Electronic Gaming Monthly reviews are in. It's a 7/7/7.5. For reference, EGM gave the original NiGHTS straight 8s, so not too bad, actually.

Fine NeoGAF member thefro sums up the EGM review thusly:

They all liked it, it just has some issues (Wiimote control scheme sucks, 3D-platforming levels suck, A-Life is half-baked, uneven graphics, can't skip story scenes, story is for babies, lack of checkpoints). Not as groundbreaking as the first, but if you loved the first you'll love this. Shane said it was "slavishly faithful" to the first game.

Great core gameplay and music.

Sounds pretty good actually. Slavishly faithful. Mmmm.

 

[Fuu]

Electronic Gaming Monthly reviews are in. It's a 7/7/7.5. For reference, EGM gave the original NiGHTS straight 8s, so not too bad, actually.

Fine NeoGAF member thefro sums up the EGM review thusly:

They all liked it, it just has some issues (Wiimote control scheme sucks, 3D-platforming levels suck, A-Life is half-baked, uneven graphics, can't skip story scenes, story is for babies, lack of checkpoints). Not as groundbreaking as the first, but if you loved the first you'll love this. Shane said it was "slavishly faithful" to the first game.

Great core gameplay and music.

Sounds pretty good actually. Slavishly faithful. Mmmm.

I agree. It's pretty much what can be rationally expected from the game after seeing the videos, screenshots and information released. Nice score too.

Do want.

 

[Vanish]

havent read through the entire thread but did they include the original Nights into Journey of Dreams? I truly hope they did but i expect the worst...

 

[Arde5643]

havent read through the entire thread but did they include the original Nights into Journey of Dreams? I truly hope they did but i expect the worst...

They're remaking the original Nights in PS2.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

havent read through the entire thread but did they include the original Nights into Journey of Dreams? I truly hope they did but i expect the worst...

No, NiGHTS: Into Dreams is getting a PS2 remake, and so far that's all we've heard on new releases of the original.

 

[Vanish]

yeah, but it would have been nice if they just included the original in the new one, other games have done it like ninja gaiden on xbox and others...

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

yeah, but it would have been nice if they just included the original in the new one, other games have done it like ninja gaiden on xbox and others...

It would have been nice, but SEGA obviously feels there's still money to be made off selling it stand-alone, so giving it away probably won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Innotech]

Sounds awful. Very sad.

Mediocre bland music is not good enough. For this to truly be a NiGHTS games it has to have music at least as good as the original games.

Sega, if you can't do better, please just release the "remake" already announced for PS2, or include the it as an extra on the Journy of Dreams disc.

some of the original music honestly wasnt the best either. I wasnt a fan of stick canyon or mystic forest music. The ones I mainly liked were splash garden and soft museum, Twin Seeds, the NiGHTS theme, dreams-dreams, message from nightopia, and Realas battle theme. Most of these are faithfully remixed in the new game, alongside the new music. The new Dreams, Dreams sounds great and the message from nightopia shows up in a couple places judging from vids.

 

[DIrtyWeasel]

havent read through the entire thread but did they include the original Nights into Journey of Dreams? I truly hope they did but i expect the worst...

Yeah it would have been great if they did, like how Sega put the original Panzer Dragoon into Panzer Dragoon Orta.

 

[Tenbatsu]

Japanese version available at Play-asia.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-z3-49-en-70-2b1f.html

 

[Lobster]

The EGM review makes me happy We all know that they're pretty tough..(except for 1UP) and 7s from them is a sure sign of greatness!

72% aprox. if anyone wanted a score.

Will be getting this within its first week of release along with a classic controller I guess.

 

[temjin]

The EGM review makes me happy We all know that they're pretty tough..(except for 1UP) and 7s from them is a sure sign of greatness!

72% aprox. if anyone wanted a score.

Will be getting this within its first week of release along with a classic controller I guess.

awesome.

if i remember correctly the original scored similarly with magazines.

 

[Mdk7]

I don't really understand how people can be happy with JoD getting 7s.
We're talking about the sequel of one of the 100 best games of all time here (#1 for me), a game we've been waiting for 11 years, scoring like an average/decent one.
I'll be getting it day one, but i'm definitely NOT happy with the results.

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't really understand how people can be happy with JoD getting 7s.
We're talking about the sequel of one of the 100 best games of all time here (#1 for me), a game we've been waiting for 11 years, scoring like an average/decent one.
I'll be getting it day one, but i'm definitely NOT happy with the results.

When you consider that EGM gave the original straight 8s, it's really not so bad.

 

[temjin]

When you consider that EGM gave the original straight 8s, it's really not so bad.

exactly why i'm happy

 

[Mdk7]

When you consider that EGM gave the original straight 8s, it's really not so bad.

yay, too bad that in this case we pretty much all know (even if someone pretends not to...) that the apple does fall far from the tree in terms of "impact".

Again, Into Dreams may have got "only" 8s back in time, but eventually it was credited to be a classic masterpiece worth a position in the top 100... It's not gonna be even similar with this one, and that makes me pretty sad.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't really understand how people can be happy with JoD getting 7s.
We're talking about the sequel of one of the 100 best games of all time here (#1 for me), a game we've been waiting for 11 years, scoring like an average/decent one.
I'll be getting it day one, but i'm definitely NOT happy with the results.

I'm happy with 7s because this could have been a complete and utter disaster. This could have been Astro Boy PS2. This could have been Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. Instead it's a relatively unambitious sequel to a game that was far from exhausting its premise. I'll take a slavishly faithful 7 in this case.

Besides, you have no idea how history is going to regard this. Maybe you weren't plugged into the scene at the time, but NiGHTS: Into Dreams didn't start getting hailed as a classic until a year or more after the fact. It was kicked around for a long time for being a short, shallow, mediocre game. At the very least, wait until you've played through Journey of Dreams before you start expressing how unhappy you are with the result or chalking it up as average.

 

[Fuu]

I don't really understand how people can be happy with JoD getting 7s.
We're talking about the sequel of one of the 100 best games of all time here (#1 for me), a game we've been waiting for 11 years, scoring like an average/decent one.
I'll be getting it day one, but i'm definitely NOT happy with the results.

Well, I'm happy about the review because what they pointed about the game in the text was what I was expecting from it. I only took real notice about the numbers when everybody started talking only about them.

If anything, the original scored 8's and the sequel, 7's. How can that be considered bad?

yay, too bad that in this case we pretty much all know (even if someone pretends not to...) that the apple does fall far from the tree in terms of "impact".

Again, Into Dreams may have got "only" 8s back in time, but eventually it was credited to be a classic masterpiece worth a position in the top 100... It's not gonna be even similar with this one, and that makes me pretty sad.

Yup, it's unlikely the same happens again, but no one was expecting JoD to be revolutionary (in lack of a better word) like the original NiGHTS was.

 

[temjin]

I'm happy with 7s because this could have been a complete and utter disaster. This could have been Astro Boy PS2. This could have been Sonic the Hedgehog 2006. Instead it's a relatively unambitious sequel to a game that was far from exhausting its premise. I'll take a slavishly faithful 7 in this case.

Besides, you have no idea how history is going to regard this. Maybe you weren't plugged into the scene at the time, but NiGHTS: Into Dreams didn't start getting hailed as a classic until a year or more after the fact. It was kicked around for a long time for being a short, shallow, mediocre game. At the very least, wait until you've played through Journey of Dreams before you start expressing how unhappy you are with the result or chalking it up as average.

well put, Segata

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Any J-GAFers pick this up yet? Love to hear some impressions.

 

[Wired All Wrong]

Looks like someone likes NiGHTS at Nintendo Power. It scored a 9. Sorry if this was posted already.

 

[Innotech]

NO impressions yet? Or are jgaffers having that much fun with it?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Apparently the Nintendo Power review lists the same positives and negatives as the other reviews so far. Seems pretty consistent, if nothing else. On-foot sections, voice acting, and Wiimote controls suck, other stuff is awesome.

 

[Innotech]

Apparently the Nintendo Power review lists the same positives and negatives as the other reviews so far. Seems pretty consistent, if nothing else. On-foot sections, voice acting, and Wiimote controls suck, other stuff is awesome.

Dubbing isnt a big deal to me., being an avid Anime collector, and the game has multiple controller options so the wiimote isnt a dealbreaker either. If the on foot sections are the only other gripe, this game will be fantastic.

 

[GhostSeed]

Has anyone tried it out yet with the GameCube controller?
I saw it was listed on the back of the box.
http://www.ncsx.com/2007/121007/nights_wii.htm

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I've got some word from a trusted J-GAFer and it's not good. I hope I like it better than he does.

Also the word is that there are already used copies on the shelves in Akiba.

 

[SunkisTim535]

I've got some word from a trusted J-GAFer and it's not good. I hope I like it better than he does.

Also the word is that there are already used copies on the shelves in Akiba.

Urgh, can't Sega do anything right these days? Any impressions are appreciated J-GAFers. And let's try to keep this thread up until the release of the game in the States. It's like 4 more days right?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Urgh, can't Sega do anything right these days? Any impressions are appreciated J-GAFers. And let's try to keep this thread up until the release of the game in the States. It's like 4 more days right?

I don't want to post his impressions without asking him first, but if he'd like to ram into this thread and give the details, I'm sure that would be helpful to people who are on the fence.

 

[GrimReaper]

I'll get this right after my finals will be all done (last one on the 19). That'll do a nice christmas present to myself.

 

[Jonnyram]

Heads up... this game is awful, and Sega has raped my memories of the original in the process.

I am NOT amused. I loved the demo at TGS, but they haven't fixed the framerate, and they've added a bunch of unnecessary stuff around the game itself which makes it one of the most offensive gaming experiences this year. DO NOT BELIEVE. I am sorely tempted to take it to a trade store in disgust, but I might also keep playing to see just how deep the anal penetration goes. Oh and you will hurl when you see the realtime cutscenes in this game. Seriously.

:|

On a happier note, I played No More Heroes for the first time last night, and it is all kinds of awesome. It almost washed away the sour taste of the NiGHTS sham.

Edit for gory details: CG cutscenes look awesome, but NiGHTS (and Reala) now speak, and they have terrible voices. All voice acting is in English with Japanese subtitles btw. There is a 10-15 minute long tutorial, hosted by a talking owl who says things like "good", "oh", "visitor" - not sure what that last one is all about. The graphics during these segments are horrendous, sub-PS2, almost PS1. The game has a lobby area from which you enter each zone, so it's a bit like SMG in that respect. There are stages where you have a single run to get as high a link as possible and it ends when the link ends. They suck. Did I mention the graphics blowing in the realtime cutscenes... The music is awesome, but it's pretty hard to screw up NiGHTS music when you are obviously using the original score! Oh and they used some of the original samples too, but used one of them for something totally different and it sounds stupid. Fans beware.

 

[Father_Brain]

Heads up... this game is awful, and Sega has raped my memories of the original in the process.

I am NOT amused. I loved the demo at TGS, but they haven't fixed the framerate, and they've added a bunch of unnecessary stuff around the game itself which makes it one of the most offensive gaming experiences this year. DO NOT BELIEVE. I am sorely tempted to take it to a trade store in disgust, but I might also keep playing to see just how deep the anal penetration goes. Oh and you will hurl when you see the realtime cutscenes in this game. Seriously.

:|

On a happier note, I played No More Heroes for the first time last night, and it is all kinds of awesome. It almost washed away the sour taste of the NiGHTS sham.

So, that's where the hype/hate rollercoaster for this game ended up? Wow.

 

[schuelma]

Heads up... this game is awful, and Sega has raped my memories of the original in the process.

I am NOT amused. I loved the demo at TGS, but they haven't fixed the framerate, and they've added a bunch of unnecessary stuff around the game itself which makes it one of the most offensive gaming experiences this year. DO NOT BELIEVE. I am sorely tempted to take it to a trade store in disgust, but I might also keep playing to see just how deep the anal penetration goes. Oh and you will hurl when you see the realtime cutscenes in this game. Seriously.

.

Wow..this is very worrisome. I do remember you being a big fan of the TGS demo.

 

[temjin]

Heads up... this game is awful, and Sega has raped my memories of the original in the process.

I am NOT amused. I loved the demo at TGS, but they haven't fixed the framerate, and they've added a bunch of unnecessary stuff around the game itself which makes it one of the most offensive gaming experiences this year. DO NOT BELIEVE. I am sorely tempted to take it to a trade store in disgust, but I might also keep playing to see just how deep the anal penetration goes. Oh and you will hurl when you see the realtime cutscenes in this game. Seriously.

:|

On a happier note, I played No More Heroes for the first time last night, and it is all kinds of awesome. It almost washed away the sour taste of the NiGHTS sham.

Edit for gory details: CG cutscenes look awesome, but NiGHTS (and Reala) now speak, and they have terrible voices. All voice acting is in English with Japanese subtitles btw. There is a 10-15 minute long tutorial, hosted by a talking owl who says things like "good", "oh", "visitor" - not sure what that last one is all about. The graphics during these segments are horrendous, sub-PS2, almost PS1. The game has a lobby area from which you enter each zone, so it's a bit like SMG in that respect. There are stages where you have a single run to get as high a link as possible and it ends when the link ends. They suck. Did I mention the graphics blowing in the realtime cutscenes... The music is awesome, but it's pretty hard to screw up NiGHTS music when you are obviously using the original score! Oh and they used some of the original samples too, but used one of them for something totally different and it sounds stupid. Fans beware.

DONT MAKE ME CRY !!!! DONT!!