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[Nafai1123]

My point is that you seem to be missing is that in a game like this you are controlling where the camera is facing losing the entire point of a aspect ratio like this. In a movie you can portray images in a exact manner with every carefully crafted camera angle and placement of everything in a scene. Almost all of that is lost in a game like this that not only allows you to look in any direction but move your character as welll. The benefit would only come from certain scenes where the camera would be forced to look in certain directions or cut scenes themselves, in these moments they could just dynamically switch to another fov and and the black bars if they wish.

And the point that you seemed to miss (since it was already discussed in this thread) is the aspect ratio and FOV do not change just because you are controlling the camera. A game designer, if focused on framing and composition, could consider the level design, combat, set pieces with those compositions in mind. Do you honestly think that you are the one unique snowflake that doesn't look at the crumbling building in the distance in a linear game? Now does it mean that you could potentially break the composition if you really wanted to? Sure, but why would you?

You seem to think that the only way to use cinematic concepts in a game is through taking control away from the player, which is why everyone is so opposed to "cinematic" gameplay. Based on what we've heard, that is not what The Order is trying to achieve, and your narrow minded thinking about how a game can be designed is causing you to jump to the conclusion that is it a bad idea. We won't know whether it works or not until we actually see it and play it, but keeping an open mind about new concepts is the only way we are going to reach those truly next-gen moments and it's frustrating to see so many people opposed to change.

 

[Hypron]

I really don't like much AA in my games, it just makes them harder to see with tired eyes. Is that an edge? Oh, it might be. I'll look harder. Yes. It's worse when the games are dark, I've always wished consoles had AA controls in the options so I could turn it down (or off).

 

[KORNdoggy]

Perfect response...seriously...what?

 

[Theecliff]

I really don't like much AA in my games, it just makes them harder to see with tired eyes. Is that an edge? Oh, it might be. I'll look harder. Yes. It's worse when the games are dark, I've always wished consoles had AA controls in the options so I could turn it down (or off).

 

[trustter]

Can I borrow your gif?

Thank you

 

[Prelude.]

I really don't like much AA in my games, it just makes them harder to see with tired eyes. Is that an edge? Oh, it might be. I'll look harder. Yes. It's worse when the games are dark, I've always wished consoles had AA controls in the options so I could turn it down (or off).

I don't think human eyes work like that.

 

[purpletentacle]

I really don't like much AA in my games, it just makes them harder to see with tired eyes. Is that an edge? Oh, it might be. I'll look harder. Yes. It's worse when the games are dark, I've always wished consoles had AA controls in the options so I could turn it down (or off).

 

[BradleyLove]

Remember the Limbo thread? "Where are my colours? My TV has colour so why aren't they making a game for my TV? Black and white artistic vision is so misguided."

Remember that?

Yeah, me neither.

The complaints about aspect ratio are just as idiotic as complaints about colour palette. RAD have a vision and they should stick to it. If you're not mature enough to handle or respect artistic intent, one has to question whether you should be allowed on the internet unsupervised.

 

[FranXico]

I really don't like much AA in my games, it just makes them harder to see with tired eyes. Is that an edge? Oh, it might be. I'll look harder. Yes. It's worse when the games are dark, I've always wished consoles had AA controls in the options so I could turn it down (or off).

I LOLed abundantly.

Best satire post in quite a while.

 

[anexanhume]

I really don't like much AA in my games, it just makes them harder to see with tired eyes. Is that an edge? Oh, it might be. I'll look harder. Yes.

I too think the 3DO was the best console ever.

 

[viveks86]

Remember the Limbo thread? "Where are my colours? My TV has colour so why aren't they making a game for my TV? Black and white artistic vision is so misguided."

Remember that?

Yeah, me neither.

The complaints about aspect ratio are just as idiotic as complaints about colour palette. RAD have a vision and they should stick to it. If you're not mature enough to handle or respect artistic intent, one has to question whether you should be allowed on the internet unsupervised.

Phew! Finally a fresh perspective! It was reaching a point where every post felt like deja vu! I completely agree with the crux of your argument, though I don't see the need to be so harsh. It's a forum after all. People are allowed to be completely wrong.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Remember the Limbo thread? "Where are my colours? My TV has colour so why aren't they making a game for my TV? Black and white artistic vision is so misguided."

Remember that?

Yeah, me neither.

The complaints about aspect ratio are just as idiotic as complaints about colour palette. RAD have a vision and they should stick to it. If you're not mature enough to handle or respect artistic intent, one has to question whether you should be allowed on the internet unsupervised.

The thing is I fail to see what black bars bring to the table. Black and white is a artistic style that fit the dark and ominous nature of Limbo.

What do the black bars add? Not much, really.

 

[Prelude.]

What do the black bars add? Not much, really.

Here we go again.

 

[sbkodama]

keeping an open mind about new concepts is the only way we are going to reach those truly next-gen moments and it's frustrating to see so many people opposed to change.

What kind of new concept you are referring here ?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

My point is that you seem to be missing is that in a game like this you are controlling where the camera is facing losing the entire point of a aspect ratio like this. In a movie you can portray images in a exact manner with every carefully crafted camera angle and placement of everything in a scene. Almost all of that is lost in a game like this that not only allows you to look in any direction but move your character as welll. The benefit would only come from certain scenes where the camera would be forced to look in certain directions or cut scenes themselves, in these moments they could just dynamically switch to another fov and add the black bars if they wish.

This kind of thinking is exactly why the word "cinematic" has been used in the wrong way for the last generation. Framing, lighting, sight lines, points of entry in a level, enemy spawns and locations, puzzles, clues, environmental geometry and its relation to the camera, etc. etc. don't stop existing just because you're controlling the camera and moving a character. In a game attempting to truly be cinematic, that is to be film-like (at least in what you see), all of its visual presentation would be built around what the player is looking at through the gameplay view and adjusted to be aesthetically pleasing. Sure you can bring up the argument that someone could choose to tilt the camera down and run headfirst into everything while looking at the character's goofy running animation, but you can't make the game with people like that in mind. RAD chose the scope presentation to emulate the visuals of films because those are visuals many people enjoy, find aesthetically pleasing, and are accustomed to. If they're truly adhering to what they say, the ENTIRE game can be framed around this aspect ratio. Not just tightly scripted scenes, but everything from combat, to exploration, to vistas that are all seen through a seamless presentation that isn't randomly adding letterboxing because "Ohh, now we're at the nice looking section."

 

[RoboPlato]

I guess something I WOULD like to know is why people care about black bars in this game FAR more than in any other game in the HISTORY of the medium? Why this game? WHY is it so big of a deal? This situation with black bars feels like it should be the least important aspect of this entire game.

That's what I find funny. RE4, Beyond, Dragon's Dogma, Evil Within and others have done it and I've barely even seen any discussion of it. For some reason this game in particular has caused the issue to explode.

 

[Seance]

Yeah. It seems like it might've turned into a shitstorm but it's not the first game to do this. Was there as big of a scandal when Dragon's Dogma did the black bars?

Dragons Dogma had that aspect ratio for performance reasons. It detracted from the gameplay i feel but at the same time it was nice when exploring the open world. If a dynamic aspect ratio could be introduced to the game that transitioned subtely i think that could work very well.

 

[4lejandro]

Let's trust RAD at Dawn and be done with this.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

That's what I find funny. RE4, Beyond, Dragon's Dogma, Evil Within and others have done it and I've barely even seen any discussion of it. For some reason this game in particular has caused the issue to explode.

Maybe... it is because of the simple reason that this is the only upcoming exclusive, besides inFamous, which has new info coming out recently.

DriveClub has been MIA for a while and Uncharted is still behind curtain. We don't really have much info on any other upcoming PS4 exclusive beside the recent reveal for The Order: 1886. But this is really being blown out of proportion =/.

Let's trust RAD at Dawn and be done with this.

Ready at Dawn at Dawn?

 

[dragonbane]

Ready at Dawn at Dawn?

He means you should trust RAD.....at dawn.

 

[nib95]

The thing is I fail to see what black bars bring to the table. Black and white is a artistic style that fit the dark and ominous nature of Limbo.

What do the black bars add? Not much, really.

Cinematic, artsy, beautiful framing?

Re-post.

I still much prefer full screen 16:9 overall, but I won't argue that 2:40:1 doesn't have it's artistic merits, and I'd actually love to see how such a ratio could benefit The Order cinematically. I hope RAD does the aspect ratio proud.

That's what I find funny. RE4, Beyond, Dragon's Dogma, Evil Within and others have done it and I've barely even seen any discussion of it. For some reason this game in particular has caused the issue to explode.

Big Playstation exclusive, post resolution gate etc. It was waiting to happen.

 

[Nafai1123]

What kind of new concept you are referring here ?

In this particular case, the concept that a developer can strive to adhere to a realistic replication of cinema while still providing an interactive experience. The idea that environment and atmosphere is more than just geometry and texture, but also imperfection, both in mise en scene and in the viewers perception of the scene. That's what makes film so magical and what I feel has been missing from video games. If they are able to capture that cinematic experience while still providing quality gameplay, intriguing narrative and a physics system never seen before it could be something special.

 

[Dinjooh]

Ready at Dawn at Dawn?

 

[anexanhume]

Let's trust RAD at Dawn and be done with this.

RIP in peace English.

 

[viveks86]

Big Playstation exclusive, post resolution gate etc. It was waiting to happen.

+ It's a mainstream genre and hyped to hell. So it attracts more unfavorable attention than other "offbeat" games that have attempted it.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Let's trust RAD at Dawn and be done with this.

I think you just created something magical.

 

[Seance]

RIP in peace RaD. Hello RaD at dawn.

 

[silent_snake]

To me, the most fascinating thing in all this is how quickly 16:9 has become sacrosanct to some people. It was chosen because it would minimize black bars (or cropping), but there was literally zero content available that would fill the screen (without cropping/zooming). All movies ever made to that point would have black bars of greater or lesser extent. This only changed with the rise of digital filming over the last decade.

The most infuriating thing is how entitled the "no black bars ever!" extremists are. Wanting particular products is a person's right; calling any divergence from your personal standards stupid, pointless, or bad is base narcissism. I don't think even they understand that steamrolling the creators' aesthetics will lead to mediocrity, even if you start with something so apparently minor. When traces of personality or idiosyncracy are derided, you end up with AAA games veering toward being an interchangeable commodity, like toilet paper or frozen concentrated orange juice.

Fantastic post.
More people should understand this. Bravo!

 

[dEvAnGeL]

Remember the Limbo thread? "Where are my colours? My TV has colour so why aren't they making a game for my TV? Black and white artistic vision is so misguided."

Remember that?

Yeah, me neither.

The complaints about aspect ratio are just as idiotic as complaints about colour palette. RAD have a vision and they should stick to it. If you're not mature enough to handle or respect artistic intent, one has to question whether you should be allowed on the internet unsupervised.

so anybody that does not agree with their vision is an idiot according to you? hmmm.... interesting

 

[imtehman]

Black bars add shit but a smaller view of what you;'re seeing. All this "vision" stuff sounds like a PR phrase to get you into buying into something

 

[anexanhume]

Black bars add shit but a smaller view of what you;'re seeing. All this "vision" stuff sounds like a PR phrase to get you into buying into something

Yes, because there were all those people lining up demanding it to have 4xMSAA or they wouldn't buy it...

 

[boredandlazy]

so anybody that does not agree with their vision is an idiot according to you? hmmm.... interesting

Doing something idiotic and being an idiot are not the same thing at all. Stop being disingenuous.

 

[Ishan]

This thread ... Its something they choose to do. It led to performance gains etc. Its their choice ... Wait till we see more of the game actually play it etc ... They want to do a lot more than just the bars. Lets see how it all meshes together.

 

[EmptySpace]

Nope. Because movies are shot for movie theatre screens. It makes sense that there would be black bars when they are squeezed down to a TV screen that doesn't match that aspect ratio.

There is no similar logical justification here other then wanting to make it look arty and cool and to save some GPU cycles at the expense of the end user experience.

you played it already?

 

[sbkodama]

In this particular case, the concept that a developer can strive to adhere to a realistic replication of cinema while still providing an interactive experience. The idea that environment and atmosphere is more than just geometry and texture, but also imperfection, both in mise en scene and in the viewers perception of the scene. That's what makes film so magical and what I feel has been missing from video games. If they are able to capture that cinematic experience while still providing quality gameplay, intriguing narrative and a physics system never seen before it could be something special.

Ok, I think we've already see the beginning of the cinematic experience some time ago so I don't think it's a new concept, but I wait to see how the order can push is this way, like the evil within in another genre.

 

[Ishan]

so like tarantino made blood gush out in random manners in kill bill. Totally not real and messing with the user experience. Someone shoudl have told him he was doing it all wrong.

windwaker uses cell shaded graphics to save gpu cycles and also devalue the user experience.

Jesus its their choice. Let Rad be. If you dislike it dont buy the game. can totally get some people cant stand it. I personally dont particularly care. I'm looking forward to their "filmic" interpretation.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Let's trust RAD at Dawn and be done with this.

Thread redeemed.

 

[Lima]

The irony of this is movie screens don't get wider for scope ratio movies either. They cut off part of the screen just like a home tv, and no one complains about not seeing the full projection screen.

Maybe you should stop going to this crap movie theater.

Of course any regular cinema has a flat and scope setting and will open up the screen wide for a scope film.

 

[Myansie]

22 pages about black bars. We really are neurotic.

Using the wider aspect ratio will certainly help to give the game a unique look. Less pixels means more power and still being at a native res with msaa means they'll be extra purdy. Being a wider aspect ratio means the game is using a wider field of view as well. As strange as it sounds, that means we are actually seeing more. The fov slider on pc game's is such a godsend. The default on games is always way to narrow and the order looks to fix that issue to a degree. Hopefully devs this gen start to widen the fov in games as everyone's screens have grown considerably.

 

[Pound_lb003]

I love how one guy can erroneously post 'RAD at Dawn' and spawn hours of entertainment for GAF members.

I love this place as sarcastic and cynical as it is.

 

[Zornack]

Black bars add shit but a smaller view of what you;'re seeing. All this "vision" stuff sounds like a PR phrase to get you into buying into something

The funny thing is it does the exact opposite.

 

[DagnastyEp]

I believe that if RAD chose 2.4:1 because they feel its best for the game they want to make, then that's great. They should be able to do whatever they want. And if it's not what people want, then they should speak with their wallets.

Cinematic, artsy, beautiful framing?

Re-post.

I still much prefer full screen 16:9 overall, but I won't argue that 2:40:1 doesn't have it's artistic merits, and I'd actually love to see how such a ratio could benefit The Order cinematically. I hope RAD does the aspect ratio proud.

Posting images like that fail to prove your point. If those images where taken/filmed in 16:9. Would they look less beautiful? I think the widescreen ratio of bluray movies looks great; but damn, watching the Dark Knight when the scenes filmed in IMAX start, and it takes up the whole screen...fucking awesome.

 

[Gertso]

AA actually blurs the image in all forms so he's not totally off base. I use as little as I can. Once we get up to 4k resolutions and such there won't really be much need for it.

So does AF while we are at it but the benefits there are far greater than without.

 

[Wanny]

LOL look at that clueless face

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Maybe you should stop going to this crap movie theater.

Of course any regular cinema has a flat and scope setting and will open up the screen wide for a scope film.

Lol. I don't claim the theaters in my area are the best, but the ones in my town (which are chains) lower something to "shorten" the picture rather than expand the picture horizontally. Both accomplish the same thing, and both are effectively covering part of the screen depending on the ratio.

 

[Bornstellar]

The funny thing is it does the exact opposite.

 

[Gertso]

The funny thing is it does the exact opposite.

It would only make sense if our field of vision was a perfect circle and not the actual wide slits we see out of.

 

[Justmarbz]

I have high hopes for this game and I hope it turns out to be a killer game for the ps4.

 

[travisbickle]

I guess something I WOULD like to know is why people care about black bars in this game FAR more than in any other game in the HISTORY of the medium? Why this game? WHY is it so big of a deal? This situation with black bars feels like it should be the least important aspect of this entire game.

Probably because the developer is so high profile and the Order series is such a well recognised series that a change of direction in aesthetics is bound to be met with a negative response.

Spoiler

it's an exclusive

 

[purpletentacle]

hopefully RAD makes a 'Pan and Scan' option that zooms in on the image - while also cropping the HUD and cutting off important items on the left and right. Just as a nice fuck you to all the assholes who feel the need to tell them how to make their game.