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[Glass Joe]

So is the popular theory that M$'s policy of demanding multiplats is the reason for the U delay? If so, isn't that what Rayman Legends: Razor's Edge would be for? After all, removed Murphy levels would require exclusive levels to make up for that - making it a substantially different product. Then after a while, Ubi could sell those levels to U owners and get even more coin. Boom.

Or, the option to skip over M$. I'm sure Sony would be happy with a September port with exclusive content.

Or is the thought process that Xbox and PS3 owners won't pay $60 for what they consider to be an old game? Kinda like how U owners looked at Mass Effect and Batman? Well, looking at Origins' fast journey into the bargain bins makes this look like a poorly thought gamble, especially with GTA and whatever else AAA titles about to overshadow it again in September.

The answer? Release it on U on time (or as close to possible due to the circumstance) for $60. A look at Miiverse, Facebook, etc. shows that a high % of users are ready to pay full price for it. It will have high exposure as a great $60 U title in a drought from February-August. Maybe even a summer bundle like Zombi U, since Nintendo is cool like that. Then when Sept comes, price drop U to $40 and launch the PS3 and MS versions at that price too. Gives it an advantage in a crowded market anyway, and $40 then is better than $20 two months from then. And if M$ is too stubburn to accept, that U fanbase probably more than makes up for it. Wasn't the higher than expected Wii sales what brought it to U anyway?

But now it's going to be that $20 game to buy around Black Friday, just like Origins. Even U owners, without the spite, will have actual higher priority content for their gaming dollars.

Just baffles me. Timing was so unprofessional. The free promo from Nintendo in store kiosks when they could have plugged Mario, e3 presentations, etc, seems disloyal.

And if the Zombi U sales are what they're using for their sudden move... Well, remember Ubi, that game launched to bad reviews. It has game breaking bugs and fence sitters only heard ''no patch planned'' for a long time. And so, it sold pretty respectfully for the circumstances.

tl;dr - disappointed by lack of professionalism, loyalty, and broken promises.

PS Reggie or NOJ could have stepped up to the plate to prevent this, too. Promo promises, a contract, publishing deal, moneyhats, etc. As always, nope. Seems like they'd try to give a shit and work and something out.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

PS Reggie or NOJ could have stepped up to the plate to prevent this, too. Promo promises, a contract, publishing deal, moneyhats, etc. As always, nope. Seems like they'd try to give a shit and work and something out.

This game isn't important enough to warrant a moneyhat. It's only important to a tiny number of enthusiasts.

 

[Glass Joe]

This game isn't important enough to warrant a moneyhat. It's only important to a tiny number of enthusiasts.

I doubt it would have been that pricey to convince them to keep exclusivity. Even if the deal loses money on paper, I would think it's worth it. No disc games for U between Dec 20th - March 18th? Pathetic. And all that December stuff was shovelware too. Rayman isn't the game to move U's, but a good momentum builder when combined with Monster Hunter and Lego City.

Plus, Nintendo's image. This sure gives customer confidence regarding 3rd party support in the future, losing a promised exclusive. It's not just the game, but the message. Nothing has changed in relations, it says. Wii U for 1st Party stuff only. Gamecube 2. So, IMO, worth a moneyhat because now the tone has been solidified.

 

[BruiserBear]

I doubt it would have been that pricey to convince them to keep exclusivity. Even if the deal loses money on paper, I would think it's worth it. No disc games for U between Dec 20th - March 18th? Pathetic. And all that December stuff was shovelware too. Rayman isn't the game to move U's, but a good momentum builder when combined with Monster Hunter and Lego City.

Plus, Nintendo's image. This sure gives customer confidence regarding 3rd party support in the future, losing a promised exclusive. It's not just the game, but the message. Nothing has changed in relations, it says. Wii U for 1st Party stuff only. Gamecube 2. So, IMO, worth a moneyhat because now the tone has been solidified.

That's a good way of putting it.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I doubt it would have been that pricey to convince them to keep exclusivity. Even if the deal loses money on paper, I would think it's worth it. No disc games for U between Dec 20th - March 18th? Pathetic. And all that December stuff was shovelware too. Rayman isn't the game to move U's, but a good momentum builder when combined with Monster Hunter and Lego City.

Plus, Nintendo's image. This sure gives customer confidence regarding 3rd party support in the future, losing a promised exclusive. It's not just the game, but the message. Nothing has changed in relations, it says. Wii U for 1st Party stuff only. Gamecube 2. So, IMO, worth a moneyhat because now the tone has been solidified.

This stuff seriously doesn't matter to 95% of consumers. If this was, say, GTA, sure. The existence of Rayman on Wii U in February rather than September is worth very little. Lets not forget this game is, to say the least, unlikely to be a huge hit. Nintendo spending money on it would be a waste of money.

 

[Malvingt2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZh9AnQSx3Y


I love this video..

 

[Glass Joe]

This stuff seriously doesn't matter to 95% of consumers. If this was, say, GTA, sure. The existence of Rayman on Wii U in February rather than September is worth very little. Lets not forget this game is, to say the least, unlikely to be a huge hit. Nintendo spending money on it would be a waste of money.

1) If you had access to the Uplay Miiverse, you may be surprised by the complaining. The sheer numbers. See also: Ubisoft's facebook.
2) The Rayman Legends demo we got is awesome.
3) Nintendo is a kid friendly console and Rayman hits that demographic.
4) It also has older players who grew up and still enjoy Mario and Zelda. Low dudebro ratio means kid friendly platformer is more accepted.
5) When you've been starving all winter, even a hot dog will look like a steak.

I understand your outsider's view that it's just Rayman and who gives a shit. But a significant amount of the U community was looking forward to the title. In February, it would look like a prom queen. By Sept, it's just another fish in the sea and U fans will see the game more like you do.

 

[kinggroin]

1) If you had access to the Uplay Miiverse, you may be surprised by the complaining. The sheer numbers. See also: Ubisoft's facebook.
2) The Rayman Legends demo we got is awesome.
3) Nintendo is a kid friendly console and Rayman hits that demographic.
4) It also has older players who grew up and still enjoy Mario and Zelda. Low dudebro ratio means kid friendly platformer is more accepted.
5) When you've been starving all winter, even a hot dog will look like a steak.

I understand your outsider's view that it's just Rayman and who gives a shit. But a significant amount of the U community was looking forward to the title. In February, it would look like a prom queen. By Sept, it's just another fish in the sea and U fans will see the game more like you do.

Hell, 360 and PS3 owners have already proven they do. Can't imagine things changing for the sequel, what with either new consoles to save for and/or GTAV grabbing the attention of most of those platform users.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

1) If you had access to the Uplay Miiverse, you may be surprised by the complaining. The sheer numbers. See also: Ubisoft's facebook.
2) The Rayman Legends demo we got is awesome.
3) Nintendo is a kid friendly console and Rayman hits that demographic.
4) It also has older players who grew up and still enjoy Mario and Zelda. Low dudebro ratio means kid friendly platformer is more accepted.
5) When you've been starving all winter, even a hot dog will look like a steak.

I understand your outsider's view that it's just Rayman and who gives a shit. But a significant amount of the U community was looking forward to the title. In February, it would look like a prom queen. By Sept, it's just another fish in the sea and U fans will see the game more like you do.

Anybody who will make vocal their opinion on a video game delay on the Internet is, by definition, the minority.

 

[Htown]

If I had to guess, this is motivated more by internal Ubisoft politics than anything else.

Somebody who disagreed with the initial decision to make the game WiiU exclusive (and thinks that the fall is the only time to release games you want to sell) suddenly found themselves with just enough power to be dangerous, and decided that things were going to go his way, and damn the consequences.

Pulling and delaying a game this close to release, when it's already done, doesn't make any real sense.

It reminds me of Cartoon Network pulling the plug on Young Justice at the last minute last fall.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Anybody who will make vocal their opinion on a video game delay on the Internet is, by definition, the minority.

Rayman Origins was a sales flop with 50k in the first NPD month and hence only bought by this minority until the price was in the cellar eventually.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Rayman Origins was a sales flop with 50k in the first NPD month and hence only bought by this minority until the price was in the cellar eventually.

Yeah. But I doubt anybody who is actually complaining about this is going to not buy the game as a result. People talk a big game, if they have any interest in the title they'll buy it when it's released. Regardless of if their feelings are hurt because Iwata-san didn't get the exclusive he felt he was promised.

Basically from Nintendo's perceptive there's little to be gained from spending a lot of money on this title. It's pretty much common knowledge in the world of video games this is b-tier, not in quality but in terms of potential sales. To that end what would be the point in 1) spending money on it or 2) risking pissing off Ubisoft by being dickish about it.

I kinda understand people being upset at the delay, but lets not pretend it's going to have massive business ramifications in any way.

 

[Glass Joe]

Yeah. But I doubt anybody who is actually complaining about this is going to not buy the game as a result. People talk a big game, if they have any interest in the title they'll buy it when it's released. Regardless of if their feelings are hurt because Iwata-san didn't get the exclusive he felt he was promised.

This can be dismissed as mere anecdote, but I personally have $60 now and want a U game. Rayman was the most attractive option. I'm probably not alone.

Fast forward to September, I'll probably want a U game. But suddenly, Wonderful 101 is out. Pikmin 3. Zelda WW. Maybe even a Mario. Rayman is therefore now way more on the back burner. Since it's likely to go into my backlog and has a better chance of being significantly discounted when I'm ready for it again, that $60 purchase this February turns into a $20-$30 purchase come the following January. I'm probably not alone there, either.

The rest we've already discussed. I'll just say I'm actually pleasantly surprised you're dismissing Rayman as a non-factor, rather than the colossal ball drop I expected you to spin as. I know you're not huge on Nintendo hardware or their policies, so I appreciate you appear to only criticize what you find to be a truly legit personal complaint.

 

[Fredrik]

^ So very true.

Rayman would probably sell a lot today, and not just to enthusiasts, because of game draught, exclusivity, demo impression hype, etc.

In september, with less game draught, no exclusivity, nothing at all to brag about really, it'll probably mostly sell day 1 to the enthusiasts, the majority will pick it up later on used or on sales.

Ubisoft will probably still sell more games in total though, since it's on 3 platforms, but I'm not so sure they'll sell more day 1 $60 games since the timing is really odd.

I'm quite sure that releasing the WiiU version now, wait for it to build some hype, add some new stages and characters and release the extended PS3/360 versions later on would be a much smarter business move. Might even get people to double dip if the added content is good enough.

 

[spannicus]

went to walmart hoping to get a snow shovel and stopped by the game section. the wii u portion was like 8 games in the middle of i'd say 60 wii games. boy was i hoping to make an impulse purchase but it was sad and pathetic the choices staring me in my face. rayman would have slain this month. fucking ubisoft pricks. rationalize this. fuck ubisoft.

 

[flattie]

This game isn't important enough to warrant a moneyhat. It's only important to a tiny number of enthusiasts.

Taken in isolation maybe, but at this stage it is about growing a library and building choice. Every single game possessing a high level of quality is crucial, exclusives even more so.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Maybe with this long delay, the game can be fine-tuned and original visions accomplished?
...Or will it just stay "finished" and stagnate until release?

what do you think?

 

[Xbudz]

Alright, so I'm starting to think this all might be PS4 related. How about if Sony announces a September release for the PS4. Both GTA5 and Rayman Legends as PS4 launch titles? A man can dream.. Ubisoft may have just found out Sony's plans?

 

[Roto13]

Rayman Legends has nothing to gain from being on PS4.

 

[Xbudz]

Rayman Legends has nothing to gain from being on PS4.

And with that strong console launch, Ubisoft has nothing to gain from being on WiiU.

 

[NBtoaster]

This game isn't important enough to warrant a moneyhat. It's only important to a tiny number of enthusiasts.

You could say the same for Bayonetta.

 

[Baconsammy]

You could say the same for Bayonetta.

They didn't moneyhat Bayonetta. They're financing the entire game.

 

[Roto13]

And with that strong console launch, Ubisoft has nothing to gain from being on WiiU.

... Ignoring your hilarious wrongness (the game is done, of course Ubisoft has something to gain from releasing it), what does that have to do with the PS4?

 

[NBtoaster]

They didn't moneyhat Bayonetta. They're financing the entire game.

But is Bayonetta big enough to warrant financing a sequel, versus spending less to secure Rayman? To them it is I guess, but now they have nothing retail (?) in Feb.

 

[Camp Lo]

My only WTF goes to the developers rushing to meet deadline, going through overtime only to have this happen.

That has to suck.

 

[Baconsammy]

But is Bayonetta big enough to warrant financing a sequel, versus spending less to secure Rayman? To them it is I guess, but now they have nothing (?) in Feb.

No, I don't think it is. Bayonetta was a sales disaster. But so was Rayman. More people will buy Rayman than ever would have bought Bayonetta 2. It's a good purchase from Nintendo's standpoint because it gives them credibility with one of the two groups they claimed to want back (core gamers. The other being third parties. Failed with one, still trying with the other).

 

[mclem]

They didn't moneyhat Bayonetta. They're financing the entire game.

So... they moneysombrero'd it?

 

[Xbudz]

Rayman Legends has nothing to gain from being on PS4.

... Ignoring your hilarious wrongness (the game is done, of course Ubisoft has something to gain from releasing it), what does that have to do with the PS4?

I think Ubisoft should release it as is on Wii U and honor the original deal!

However, there does seem to be some dissapointment from developers over the Wii U's launch and software sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if this new ZombiU bundle from Nintendo is related to them (Nintendo) guaranteeing Ubisoft a certain number of sales on Ubisoft's biggest WiiU title (ZombiU).

Nintendo needs these 3rd parties... but so do next-gen consoles.

There was a time people believed Sony was paying EA to NOT make games for Dreamcast... the videogame industry can be shady.

 

[polyh3dron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZh9AnQSx3Y


I love this video..

This guy speaks like a South Park character, lol

 

[Baconsammy]

So... they moneysombrero'd it?

The word you're looking for is they're publishing it. In addition to paying for all of it. If you think that's the same as giving developers a wad of cash to give you the game they made first, I can't help you.

 

[mclem]

The word you're looking for is they're publishing it. In addition to paying for all of it. If you think that's the same as giving developers a wad of cash to give you the game they made first, I can't help you.

Where do you think the money from the proverbial moneyhat *goes*? It's ultimately more funding for the dev house. Heck, often what we regard as moneyhats aren't actually money; they're instead cost reductions on development tools and licenses; all ploughed into development.

Nintendo just took it one step further, but it's still operating under a very similar principle. The logical extreme of a moneyhat is indeed a full financing and publishing deal.

 

[Baconsammy]

Where do you think the money from the proverbial moneyhat *goes*? It's ultimately more funding for the dev house. Heck, often what we regard as moneyhats aren't actually money; they're instead cost reductions on development tools and licenses; all ploughed into development.

Nintendo just took it one step further, but it's still operating under a very similar principle. The logical extreme of a moneyhat is indeed a full financing and publishing deal.

Nintendo didn't do this to keep it away from Sony and Microsoft. They did it to save the game. Without them it was dead and gone. Hardly what I'd refer to as a moneyhat.

 

[polyh3dron]

Where do you think the money from the proverbial moneyhat *goes*? It's ultimately more funding for the dev house. Heck, often what we regard as moneyhats aren't actually money; they're instead cost reductions on development tools and licenses; all ploughed into development.

Nintendo just took it one step further, but it's still operating under a very similar principle. The logical extreme of a moneyhat is indeed a full financing and publishing deal.

Moneysombrero sounds like an accurate term for such activity.

 

[spannicus]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

They don't get the full $60.

 

[Maxrunner]

So you're all saying this has to do with MS politics?i thought it was not possible, one to dislike the company even more...guess i was wrong...i was scroogled.....

 

[Glass Joe]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

they wouldn't get the taxes, either. goes to the state governments, yo.

EDIT: Also worth noting that some casuals likely want and would buy the game, but wouldn't go hardcore nerd enough to sign a petition. And that many potential buyers may not be aware of the situation at all... Not every U owner checks daily gaming news or hits up Miiverse.

 

[Huff]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

signing a petition doesn't cost any money from the consumer.

you can't assume all the petitions would buy the game.

and if this game only sold 7500 copies, man that would be bad

 

[Roto13]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

Oh my god

 

[Baconsammy]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

Lots of business majors up in here. How much of that would be lost to licensing fees, taxes, marketing budgets, shipping costs etc etc? How many of those sigs are duplicates? How many are sigs from people with no intention to ever buy the game new? I'm still going to go with Ubisoft on this that they know their business better than we do.

 

[ASIS]

Anybody who will make vocal their opinion on the Internet is, by definition, the minority.

Fixed. Minority always speak the loudest. Doesn't change the fact that, sometimes, they are right.

 

[Beaulieu]

with almost 7500 signatures on the petition its nearly $500,000 ubisoft could be gaining this month. I am sure with taxes added to that 60 bucks it would be more.

man, this could possibly be post of the year material right there LOL.

 

[Baconsammy]

Fixed. Minority always speak the loudest. Doesn't change the fact that, sometimes, they are right.

Sure, they might be right. But if you ran a business, whose opinion would you value more? The people you hired with MBAs or kids on Miiverse?

 

[Pineconn]

Sure, they might be right. But if you ran a business, whose opinion would you value more? The people you hired with MBAs or kids on Miiverse?

Kids on Miiverse = customers.

Or rather, ex-customers.

 

[ASIS]

Sure, they might be right. But if you ran a business, whose opinion would you value more? The people you hired with MBAs or kids on Miiverse?

Irrelevant to my point.

If people are so angry about the game being moved, it's because they wanted to play it. I have no doubt most of them will just buy it anyway, and Ubi probably know this. People talk of boycotting it, but I really doubt that's gonna happen.

There is no way in hell I'm boycotting it

Hell I may not even get it on Wii U, depends on which console I'll have on my disposal at that time.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Kids on Miiverse = customers.

Or rather, ex-customers.

If people are so angry about the game being moved, it's because they wanted to play it. I have no doubt most of them will just buy it anyway, and Ubi probably know this. People talk of boycotting it, but I really doubt that's gonna happen.

 

[Christberg]

I'd speculate that they would rather get the potential boost for Wii U in the next fiscal year by releasing Pikmin after April. Who knows. But there's no way that game can't be ready to go. This is vintage Nintendo.

Comparing more recent screenshots with early media of the game, I'm pretty sure they delayed it to polish the game some more. That's not a bad thing, and they certainly didn't announce the delay just a couple weeks before release when there was a firm release date already.

Honest question - are you seriously saying that videogame enthusiasts should just take it in the teeth every time a publisher pulls a dick move? Seriously? If not, what PRODUCTIVE thing should we do? All I hear from you is a bunch of poo-pooing people being rightfully upset about something with nothing constructive to say in response.

So please, here's your chance. A publisher pulls a dick move that upsets you, Dave Meltzer. Maybe it's bullshit P2W required DLC on a full price game. Maybe it's a game that ships completely broken but still pulls 9+ ratings. Or maybe it's a finished game that gets delayed 7 months at the last possible second because the publisher doesn't want to double spend on marketing.

What is the appropriate, constructive response? Cry in your milk and buy the game plus $100 worth of DLC consisting of a thong, a hat and horse armor?

 

[Zoramon089]

Sure, they might be right. But if you ran a business, whose opinion would you value more? The people you hired with MBAs or kids on Miiverse?

Uhh, probably the people who actually own the system

 

[farnham]

7500 signed means.. Well nobody gives a flying fuck if rayman comes out or not.

I guess wiiu owners should be glad that ubi is not outright cancelling the game lol

 

[Baconsammy]

Uhh, probably the people who actually own the system

Holy crap.