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[Laughing Banana]

Blacks will always be the go to, ole faithful "other", but Arabs, Muslims, and Mexicans are definitely in the current "other".

The funny thing is, Muslims can be Arabs and Mexican too!

 

[massoluk]

The narratives basically corrupted my two sisters (South East Asians). "There are no racism in US, I succeeded when I'm a minorities"

No, you're children of a successful businessman that have a much more opportunities than many, sis

 

[HK-47]

The funny thing is, Muslims can be Arabs and Mexican too!

Mexicans are much more likely to be Christian. Doesnt help in this wonderful "Christian" nation.

 

[lightskintwin]

The funny thing is, Muslims can be Arabs and Mexican too!

Blacks are more likely to be Muslim than Mexicans.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Mexicans are much more likely to be Christian. Doesnt help in this wonderful "Christian" nation.

Well yeah Jesus Commands is often just a code word for White Commands anyways.

 

[cdyhybrid]

And now we've got a President that draws inspiration from Japanese internment camps.

 

[RedSwirl]

I think what a lot of people overlook is that black Americans aren't immigrants.

All the groups that eventually got included into whiteness were immigrants. They share something that kind of makes the US distinct from most other places in the world: the people who live here either chose to live here or are descended from people who chose to live here within the last 500 years. Black and Native Americans are the two big exceptions. The main exception to how immigrants eventually get treated in the US is of course the Hispanic population.

 

[zero_suit]

I think what a lot of people overlook is that black Americans aren't immigrants.

All the groups that eventually got included into whiteness were immigrants. They share something that kind of makes the US distinct from most other places in the world: the people who live here either chose to live here or are descended from people who chose to live here within the last 500 years. Black and Native Americans are the two big exceptions. The main exception to how immigrants eventually get treated in the US is of course the Hispanic population.

And my people and Native Americans still remain at the bottom of the totem pole. Coincidence?

 

[Aiustis]

I think what a lot of people overlook is that black Americans aren't immigrants.

All the groups that eventually got included into whiteness were immigrants. They share something that kind of makes the US distinct from most other places in the world: the people who live here either chose to live here or are descended from people who chose to live here within the last 500 years. Black and Native Americans are the two big exceptions. The main exception to how immigrants eventually get treated in the US is of course the Hispanic population.

So much this.

 

[Lovely Salsa]

And my people and Native Americans still remain at the bottom of the totem pole. Coincidence?

Nah, you still have many successful black americans. But you do also have an advantage that other minorities dont. To be considered american

 

[Barzul]

Nah, you still have many successful black americans. But you do also have an advantage that other minorities dont. To be considered american

This is definitely true. I think it helps that black people being here for as long as we have, our culture is so engrained in the country. We also lead a lot of the fights for other minority groups as we're by far the most visible. Civil Rights wouldn't be a thing without black people.

 

[Atraveller]

The narratives basically corrupted my two sisters (South East Asians). "There are no racism in US, I succeeded when I'm a minorities"

No, you're children of a successful businessman that have a much more opportunities than many, sis

I know my aunt bought into it when I talked to her a couple of years ago, Trump is a wake up call.

 

[theignoramus]

Nah, you still have many successful black americans. But you do also have an advantage that other minorities dont. To be considered american

Those minorities instantly shit on Black Americans once they become more integrated in the dominant society. One of the biggest examples of that is the Trump supporting, Cuban American community in south Florida.
These people arent even second generation Americans and they are notorious in that area for the racist way they treat Haitians and African Americans.
These folks probably wouldnt even be let into the country if it wasnt for the work Black activists spent decades dying for, but light skin goes a long way in America.

 

[Barzul]

Those minorities instantly shit on Black Americans once they become more integrated in the dominant society. One of the biggest examples of that is the Trump supporting, Cuban American community in south Florida.
These people arent even second generation Americans and they are notorious in that area for the racist way they treat Haitians and African Americans.
These folks probably wouldnt even be let into the country if it wasnt for the work Black activists spent decades dying for, but light skin goes a long way in America.

This is also true.

 

[RainForce]

Given Pearl Harbor and the grueling war in the Pacific, it is kind of miraculous how positive attitudes are toward the Japanese. Even Germany still gets made fun of for the Nazi stuff.

Well yeah, Japan's role in WW2 and "the Nazi stuff" is kind of incomparable in terms of scale even when taking into account Unit 731 and Nanking. Hopefully history never sanitizes those atrocities.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Nah, you still have many successful black americans. But you do also have an advantage that other minorities dont. To be considered american

Overt racism gets traded for diet racism. So where don't get lynched anymore or shot up by cops for nothing (which--don't get me wrong--is a huge, huge advantage), we get the perpetual sense of being considered outsiders. "Where are you from? No, where are you really from?" and minimal--or flat out bad--representation in media and being considered not "well-rounded" and being emasculated/exotic and so forth.

 

[Ogodei]

this shit still shows up from time to time

I recall seeing a facebook meme about this regarding the Irish, saying that at one time the Irish were treated worse than the slaves (yes) and that the Irish made it up through hard work and not bitching and wanting handouts.

Which was bizarre because the person who shared that bile is a moderate with some left-leaning views.

Edit: Japanese negging still rears its ugly head from time to time. You just see less of it online because the people who throw around the most racist trash have a strong affinity for anime for whatever reason. But some of the stuff that came up after Fukushima was absolutely savage.

 

[ISOM]

*not going to continue this*

Edit: or we could stop derailing the thread now. I'll go first.

Yeah you do that because you shitposted first.

 

[Not]

Still no Asian-American male movie stars.

 

[Mesousa]

Those minorities instantly shit on Black Americans once they become more integrated in the dominant society. One of the biggest examples of that is the Trump supporting, Cuban American community in south Florida.
These people arent even second generation Americans and they are notorious in that area for the racist way they treat Haitians and African Americans.
These folks probably wouldnt even be let into the country if it wasnt for the work Black activists spent decades dying for, but light skin goes a long way in America.

This is why you must take the way they talk about Fidel with a grain of sand.

 

[Yamauchi]

Not a cynical comment: How does this reasoning account for the success of African immigrants to the US (and to their 2nd and 3rd generation offspring), both in economic and academic spheres?

 

[Mesousa]

Not a cynical comment: How does this reasoning account for the success of African immigrants to the US, both in economic and academic spheres?

America is strict with who they let in. Its very easy to have a success group when the only pool is that of successful people.

Imagine how different the African American community would look if the only ones in the nation were successful business guys, and the rappers/criminals/ect were not present. It would create a much more different community dynamic than is available now.

 

[Twilight Princess]

Thank you America.

 

[Aiustis]

Not a cynical comment: How does this reasoning account for the success of African immigrants to the US, both in economic and academic spheres?

...They have more in common with other immigrant populations. They don't share the cultural baggage.

Another thing to note is that African Americans started with absolutely nothing in this country. They were from being slaves to not slaves with no access to anything. They were denied education, jobs and basic human rights. There was very little in the way of economic opportunity. If you wanted to do anything you pretty much had to get lucky with what white people controlled shit around you.

Also this

America is strict with who they let in. Its very easy to have a success group when the only pool is that of successful people.

Imagine how different the African American community would look if the only ones in the nation were successful business guys, and the rappers/criminals/ect were not present. It would create a much more different community dynamic than is available now.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Edit: Japanese negging still rears its ugly head from time to time. You just see less of it online because the people who throw around the most racist trash have a strong affinity for anime for whatever reason. But some of the stuff that came up after Fukushima was absolutely savage.

It's kind of veiled, so it's harder to see if you aren't looking for it specifically, but even on allegedly super-progressive GAF you can find these kinds of comments. "Chinaman" showed up in a thread just yesterday, for example.

Not a cynical comment: How does this reasoning account for the success of African immigrants to the US, both in economic and academic spheres?

The situation with immigrants is different from the one with native-born citizens, as with immigrants, only those with means--whether they be financial or academic or something else--make it out here, so they get here already with some advantages.

The article parallels this by talking about later generation Asian immigrants, where they were restricted so that only those specifically selected by the US--those with education and/or in-demand skills--got to come, which of course skewed their probability for success once here.

 

[Jonm1010]

both liberal and conservative politicians pumped up the image of Asian Americans as a way to shift the blame for black poverty. If Asians could find success within the system, politicians asked, why couldn’t African Americans?

Still a pretty common argument I hear more often then I wish.

"Why can't blacks just be like asians? Study hard, work their way through school and pull themselves up!"

* Same person looks at the names at a stack of resumes *

Jim - Set up interview

Tyler - Set up interview

DeShawn - Pass

Linda - Maybe

Shanice - Pass.

Connor - Set up interview

​

 

[fritolay]

For a country that calls itself the united states, you guys sure are really good at dividing people.

Well, imagine if a new place on earth were discovered, and people from all countries went there. Maybe there would be people that don't agree no? That and states themselves have different laws, hence the name United States, it's not One State.

 

[Yamauchi]

America is strict with who they let in. Its very easy to have a success group when the only pool is that of successful people.

Imagine how different the African American community would look if the only ones in the nation were successful business guys, and the rappers/criminals/ect were not present. It would create a much more different community dynamic than is available now.

Okay, this makes sense.

The article parallels this by talking about later generation Asian immigrants, where they were restricted so that only those specifically selected by the US--those with education and/or in-demand skills--got to come, which of course skewed their probability for success once here.

Okay, I read the full interview. I think she is being honest in saying that the model minority stereotype has shifted and broken down since the 1960s -- certainly, at least, those aspects of it being 'equal parts truth, propaganda and self-enforcing prophecy.'

 

[lightskintwin]

America is strict with who they let in. Its very easy to have a success group when the only pool is that of successful people.

Imagine how different the African American community would look if the only ones in the nation were successful business guys, and the rappers/criminals/ect were not present. It would create a much more different community dynamic than is available now.

I have no idea why you used rappers as an example.

 

[Mesousa]

I have no idea why you used rappers as an example.

Because they portray a negative image of African Americans in the popular media.

 

[ezrarh]

Still a pretty common argument I hear more often then I wish.

"Why can't blacks just be like asians? Study hard, work their way through school and pull themselves up!"

* Same person looks at the names at a stack of resumes *

Jim - Set up interview

Tyler - Set up interview

DeShawn - Pass

Linda - Maybe

Shanice - Pass.

Connor - Set up interview

​

The disadvantages are there well before you even get to the part where you submit a resume although there are days where I wonder if I should have used a typical American name (me being Asian).

 

[cdyhybrid]

America is strict with who they let in. Its very easy to have a success group when the only pool is that of successful people.

Imagine how different the African American community would look if the only ones in the nation were successful business guys, and the rappers/criminals/ect were not present. It would create a much more different community dynamic than is available now.

Rappers are generally pretty successful business people though :thinking:

 

[Aiustis]

I don't think it's really less necessarily, just different; in many ways it's more acceptable. I think it also has something to do with them being viewed as knowing their place. Asian Americans are seen as docile and non confrontational when it comes to racism.

 

[watershed]

I wish more people new about this stuff. The period of Chinese Exclusion lasted for decades and only ended because the US became friendlier with China during WWII.

 

[Mesousa]

Rappers are generally pretty successful business people though :thinking:

So Are dope dealers in comparison to the economically depressed communities they live in. I was giving a very specific image of success in my post though.

When people talk about successful African immigrants they are talking about educated elite and entrepreneurs. Not someone who just has a couple of dollars in their pocket.

 

[lightskintwin]

Because they portray a negative image of African Americans in the popular media.

Not all of them. Quit lumping them all together.

 

[cdyhybrid]

So Are dope dealers in comparison to the economically depressed communities they live in. I was giving a very specific image of success in my post though.

When people talk about successful African immigrants they are talking about educated elite and entrepreneurs. Not someone who just has a couple of dollars in their pocket.

Making music isn't quite the same as selling drugs.

 

[Yamauchi]

For a country that calls itself the united states, you guys sure are really good at dividing people.

I've lived on several continents (North America, Europe, and Asia) and in numerous countries. If you think you are living somewhere not grappling with these same issues, chances are 1) you are in a country where discussions of this nature haven't yet become common enough to become part of the national discourse or 2) you are living in a context where levels of racism / ethnic chauvinism are so severe discussion is almost entirely repressed in academia or the popular media.

 

[Takuan]

Still a pretty common argument I hear more often then I wish.

"Why can't blacks just be like asians? Study hard, work their way through school and pull themselves up!"

* Same person looks at the names at a stack of resumes *

Jim - Set up interview

Tyler - Set up interview

DeShawn - Pass

Linda - Maybe

Shanice - Pass.

Connor - Set up interview

​

Same happens to people with ethnic names. Buddy of mine whose first name was a romanization of his Chinese name had no luck even getting interviews out of university - zero callbacks after 8 months of trying. He had his name legally changed to "James" and the interviews started rolling in. He went to something like 8 interviews in the span of 2 weeks, and had accepted an offer three weeks in.

It's crazy how much difference a first name can make.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Using Asian Americans and the "model minority" myth to drive a wedge between different minority groups in this country is an example of more racism, not less.

 

[lightskintwin]

Okay, this makes sense.

Also integration had the unintended effect of hurting Black communities as it pulled the best from out of there and empowered White institutions and communities without replacing anything with it in the Black ones, leaving those communities even more isolated, hopeless, and with no role models.

 

[Apt101]

Quick question. When Americans say asian, do they only mean east asians?

What are south Asians called?

From Korea down through China and the surrounding countries, to the islands of the Pacific. There's not any nuanced distinction.

One thing I've noticed is that most Americans don't realize India is in Asia.

 

[Mesousa]

Not all of them. Quit lumping them all together.

This is equivalent to the not all cops argument. Its enough of a problem to where it needs to be called what it is though.

There are, and have been, people for decades now who have made a nice living putting out the most destructive image of our community. Its a problem, and in most cases its not even us who are in position to get most of the benefit from this artistic output. Its a net negative on the community.

 

[Barzul]

Not a cynical comment: How does this reasoning account for the success of African immigrants to the US (and to their 2nd and 3rd generation offspring), both in economic and academic spheres?

I'm an African immigrant and let me tell I had way more going for me than the typical black male when I first came over. I knew if shit hit the fan I could depend on my parents back home or go back there. Black folks don't have that. Transfer of wealth is only a few generations in the making for black people. That stuff counts a lot. It's the reason why if your parents went to college you're more likely to go. Many black people are still the first in their families to get college degrees.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

anti-blackness is the fulcrum of white supremacy. The model minority myth is both unfair to Asians and inherently anti-black. Divide and conquer bullshit.

 

[Malakai]

Just to feel in some gap that this article has:

Source

...

During World War II, white liberals agonized that racism was damaging the United States' ability to fight a war for democracy against the Axis powers. Many felt that the Chinese exclusion laws, which had barred migrants from China from entering the country or becoming naturalized citizens since the 1870s, risked America's trans-Pacific alliance with China against Japan. A coast-to-coast campaign emerged to overturn the laws. The Citizens Committee to Repeal Chinese Exclusion recognized that it would have to neutralize deep-seated fear of "yellow peril" coolie hordes. So it strategically recast Chinese in its promotional materials as "law-abiding, peace-loving, courteous people living quietly among us." Congress repealed the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1943.

In the 1950s, journalists, social scientists and policymakers recycled this fledgling idea, circulating it further and wider as they groped for a solution to what they perceived as a national juvenile delinquency crisis. The New York Times Magazine emphasized that Chinese youths displayed "unquestioned obedience" toward their elders, while Look magazine celebrated their "high moral sense." U.S. Rep. Arthur Klein of New York praised his Manhattan Chinatown constituents for their "respect for parents and teachers," "stable and loving home life" and thirst for education.
...

By the 1960s, the concept of strong, disciplined families became the basis of the new racial stereotype of Chinese Americans as "model minorities": domestic exemplars, upwardly mobile and politically docile. In the midst of the black freedom movement of the 1960s, numerous politicians and academics and the mainstream media contrasted Chinese with African Americans. They found it expedient to invoke Chinese "culture" to counter the demands of civil rights and black power activists for substantive change.

 

[lightskintwin]

This is equivalent to the not all cops argument. Its enough of a problem to where it needs to be called what it is though.

There are, and have been, people for decades now who have made a nice living putting out the most destructive image of our community. Its a problem, and in most cases its not even us who are in position to get most of the benefit from this artistic output. Its a net negative on the community.

Remove hip hop and what would be any different that wasn't taking place in those communities.

 

[Mesousa]

Remove hip hop and what would be any different that wasn't taking place in those communities.

The image shown to the world. I am speaking of the PR angle of it. We all know whats going on economically disadvantaged areas. The problem is when it is commodified and broadcasted across the world as some kind of product. Its degrading, and even more so when you realize this is the image they are getting of our community today, and even more so when it is part of even a bigger brand of the African diaspora worldwide.

It works on dividing communities too. An immigrant coming from overseas only has this image shown of Black Americans how do you think they will treat the ones they come into contact with? Its the easiest tool of Divide and conquer.

 

[lightskintwin]

The image shown to the world. I am speaking of the PR angle of it. We all know whats going on economically disadvantaged areas. The problem is when it is commodified and broadcasted across the world as some kind of product. Its degrading, and even more so when you realize this is the image they are getting of our community today, and even more so when it is part of even a bigger brand of the African diaspora worldwide.

It works on dividing communities too. An immigrant coming from overseas only has this image shown of Black Americans how do you think they will treat the ones they come into contact with? Its the easiest tool of Divide and conquer.

Yes, but you know it's more complicated than that. Plus your example was African immigrants who were rappers making some assumption they would be projecting these same type of images to an African American community and hurt it rather than empower them, which I believe you're wrong.

Hip hop had a very empowering effect and didn't get really tainted until the "Gangsta Rap" from the West Coast. Either way, it still brought to light a lot of issues within the Black community to Mainstream and gave voice to the voiceless. Now obviously the minstrel aspects got popular, and became the path of least resistance for those to perform and corporations to promote. However I can't say it was doing any more damage than the War on Drugs, and the Industrial Prison Complex was already having on those communities and being projected on Nightly News every night.

 

[Mesousa]

Yes, but you know it's more complicated than that. Plus your example was African immigrants who were rappers making some assumption they would be projecting these same type of images to an African American community and hurt it rather than empower them, which I believe you're wrong.

Hip hop had a very empowering effect and didn't get really tainted until the "Gangsta Rap" from the West Coast. Either way, it still brought to light a lot of issues within the Black community to Mainstream and gave voice to the voiceless. Now obviously the minstrel aspects got popular, and became the path of least resistance for those to perform and corporations to promote. However I can't say it was doing any more damage than the War on Drugs, and the Industrial Prison Complex was already having on those communities and being projected on Nightly News every night.

I agree that many might have felt, or still do, empowered by the music at some point in time, and I feel that is more of failure of the consciousness movement. There is no cool guy out there to really speak again negative images or the minstrelsy so the youth have been left to get their image from the radio machine.

I submit that the cultural wars, especially in terms of Music, has a much further reach than the nightly news does. The average person around the world isnt watching the American nightly news the way they are following the music scene. I do agree that what you mentioned definitely works together to create a negative image though.