Erin S Kittens
Member
Came here to post this. I have this condition, meditating and psychedelics have helped immensely.
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The realization that I have Aphantasia is driving me crazy
- Thread starter Fou-Lu
- Start date
Came here to post this. I have this condition, meditating and psychedelics have helped immensely.
Most people don't visualise stuff in 4k crystal clear quality or whatever. For me it only becomes really vivid when I'm deep in a daydream or invested in something. But if I just sit here and think "apple" it's not like I see a real apple pop up on my desk ready for eating.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I've seen Mickey Mouse a bunch of times but I'd have to look at a reference image.
Drawing helps store an exact image though.
I remember drawing a pencil sharpener once years ago.
Then about 2-4 years or so after I decided to draw it from a mental image and it looked almost the exact same as the first drawing I did.
I tend to day dream but I usually go through random thoughts quickly and they aren't that detailed.
In order to get something detailed I have to commit to staying on a single thought and fleshing out details.
I guess for some people they do that by default?
It's hard to describe but I can imagine things with a meticulous attention for detail. But it is realy hard to put into words, it is not the same as actually seeing something.
I don't understand how this works. How do people with aphantasia, for example, solve 3d puzzles? For example asking people to draw a certain stack of cubes from a different perspective. That requires to imagine it first, right?
I don't understand how this works. How do people with aphantasia, for example, solve 3d puzzles? For example asking people to draw a certain stack of cubes from a different perspective. That requires to imagine it first, right?
eso76
Member
Had no idea this was a thing.
But can you, like, describe something you have seen though ? Like, a screenshot from a videogame you played/saw ?
Can you draw ? Does that help or is it impossible to draw for someone with aphantasia ?
I am probably the complete opposite, I can spend hours lying with my eyes closed imagining scenes, faces, even videogames (not videogames that exist, new ones I'd like to make/play). Sure, sometimes things are fuzzier, sometimes they are clearer, I think that's normal.
Some other times, like when I wake up in the middle of the night and lie in bed trying to fall asleep again, or when I'm tired or when I do (did
) marijuana they are cristal clear, vivid, three dimensional like they are in front of me, and it's amazing, BUT unfortunately in these cases I don't control them, they are just random images sent to me, out of nowhere.
But can you, like, describe something you have seen though ? Like, a screenshot from a videogame you played/saw ?
Can you draw ? Does that help or is it impossible to draw for someone with aphantasia ?
I am probably the complete opposite, I can spend hours lying with my eyes closed imagining scenes, faces, even videogames (not videogames that exist, new ones I'd like to make/play). Sure, sometimes things are fuzzier, sometimes they are clearer, I think that's normal.
Some other times, like when I wake up in the middle of the night and lie in bed trying to fall asleep again, or when I'm tired or when I do (did
) marijuana they are cristal clear, vivid, three dimensional like they are in front of me, and it's amazing, BUT unfortunately in these cases I don't control them, they are just random images sent to me, out of nowhere.Being unable to create/store mental images must impact memory formation and recollection in a huge way, right? I can't imagine what it would have been like in school not to recall diagrams I'd seen, faces, paintings in history, even visualization of timelines and things like that. Even remembering what I did that day might be really hard, not to mention managing the memorization tasks that K-12 education is built around.Even things like direction, landmarks, maps, etc.
When I hear the name Shakespeare, I picture him outside a cottage on a stream (stratford upon avon) with a pig in a crown beside him (hamlet, lear), and a witch's cauldron (macbeth). And from his clothes with the clown collars and slashed balloony sleeves I get a rough idea of the era and that he was alive during the reigns of Elizabeth I and James I. This was how I memorized stuff,
It seems like relying on recognition abilities versus being able to generate mental representations would make learning and remembering a totally different task. And maybe it would make learning in certain disciplines way easier than in others.
When I hear the name Shakespeare, I picture him outside a cottage on a stream (stratford upon avon) with a pig in a crown beside him (hamlet, lear), and a witch's cauldron (macbeth). And from his clothes with the clown collars and slashed balloony sleeves I get a rough idea of the era and that he was alive during the reigns of Elizabeth I and James I. This was how I memorized stuff,
It seems like relying on recognition abilities versus being able to generate mental representations would make learning and remembering a totally different task. And maybe it would make learning in certain disciplines way easier than in others.
It's a weird thing to get my head around. I'm not seeing anything, but I do get a feeling that I know what they look like. Sort of an idea of their outline, mostly focusing the fact that they have spiked ears/hair. There's certainly no colour or anything, though.
Maybe I'm just not very good at it.
EekumBokum
Member
This is blowing my mind that there are people unable to visualize. So what do you do when you are reading a nonsensical line that is impossible to remember facts from because it is impossible in real life. Something like flying pigs.
My minds eye is not that good compared to some of the posts i read here and i was planning on learning and improve my drawing skills anyway so i will keep this in mind.
Reason is cuz i want to draw nice fanart too. Seeing all that cool art online inspires me in a way only my terrible drawing skills and being a left hand primary kinda helt me back lol. Anyway i will try it out. Luckily drawing is a skill someone can learn with much practice.
This is really interesting thanks.
I wonder if this helps for people without a "minds eye" too would be cool.
I'd only just realized I had this myself, But i'm a professional artist having been in the business going on 17 years now. I didn't get held up on the fact and it never bothered me. I don't consider it a handicap at all. Just the way it is.
Shit some artists draw with their feet, I've got nothing to complain about
Shit some artists draw with their feet, I've got nothing to complain about
Mariah Carey
Member
Are you able to draw at all?
How do you draw something if you can't imagine what you are going to draw? How do you know where the next line will go or what color to use?
hey_monkey
Banned
I just think in words and concepts. Like if you say Shakespeare I think of plays and sonnets. If you ask me to draw Mickey Mouse, I know conceptually that he has big round ears and a swoopy nose. I could maybe draw a rough sketch. Drawing is very hard for me without a model of some sort though.
I dunno if I have the condition or what marks it. I never really looked into it. I'm fine as I am.
Yes, it's handy when decorating, for example.
I'm a 3d artist. But regardless, I can memorize shapes and forms in my head but I can't visually see them in my mind, it's hard to explain but I have ideas of images in my head but I don't see them in a visual sense, it's more like mind breaks them down into concepts.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Do you dream?
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
I dream, and Ive even lucid dreamed; but it just feels like I wake up knowing that my dream happened. Like I just read a plot summary off wikipedia
Erin S Kittens
Member
It would be distorted, with lots of iffy extrapolated details and misplaced elements, since I'd be rebuilding it from what would best be described as a word-based understanding of the scene.
Judging by the comments I'd say there must be a spectrum of this, as some people are saying they literally can't remember things they've seen visually. I can, but I don't see them in my mind. Like when I imagine a place I've been I don't see the whole picture, my mind sort of recollects the space around me without visualizing it. For example mind sort of "traces" a portion of the memory saying "there's a couch there, and a coffee table here" I get a sense of where everything is but I don't see it all at once in my mind, even the couch I could break down the details of it all independently but I can't visualize the whole thing in my head at once, more the "concept" of the couch being there and it's colour.
I dream and am aware of the fact that I visualize things when I dream, but I certainly can't bring up those images when I am awake though I can remember it in words and concepts.
Now that we are on the subject, how consistently can you guys visualize stuff? Like if I try to imagine a person walking on the street that I might not even know, I can't hold a gif like clip in my head with all clarity. It's more like a gif that has a lot of frames skipped so the animation is not fully smooth and the details aren't coming to my head like you would see in a gif animation. The details and colors will many times get lost. I can make out the overall scene and flow of things because I'm the one visualizing it but it's very bad quality if it could be exported into a video clip.
I have always assumed that this is how it is for most people, but maybe there are people who can picture a perfect "movie" in their heads rich with details etc.?
I have always assumed that this is how it is for most people, but maybe there are people who can picture a perfect "movie" in their heads rich with details etc.?
hey_monkey
Banned
I can't lucid dream (jealous), but yeah, plot summary. That's a great analogy.
I also get lost easily. No sense of direction. You guys also?
archreaper93
Member
Well I haven't been officially diagnosed, but that sure sounds a hell of a lot like me. I always thought it was due to ADHD, that I couldn't focus long enough on something to visualize it.
hey_monkey
Banned
Oh weird. I'm going to get tested for ADHD finally.
Yikes, that would be a nightmare to me. I visualize so many things in my head. Everything I write plays out in my head like a scene in a movie or a play. I even do this while doing something else such as walking or riding an exercise bike.
I think what would be worse though would be if you suddenly had aphantasia after years of being able to visualize things in your head. The loss would be tremendous to me...
I think what would be worse though would be if you suddenly had aphantasia after years of being able to visualize things in your head. The loss would be tremendous to me...
I am 100% the same way. Each line is voiced out and I can't read very quickly when reading novels or fiction.
I try not to do this with technical documents.
Also, OP, you just remember things, but are not able to convey an image of anything?
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
This was the first thing I thought (of which I'm not particularly proud). That said, at least OP lives in the internet age, it could be much worse just one generation ago.
So if I tell you to picture a beach you can't even recall an image of a beach you've seen or a beach scene from a movie or tv show? Same with family members. If someone isn't asking you to create something new but rather recall something, you can't remember? That's pretty messed up.
Snowybreak
Member
When I close my eyes and picture something, it comes through in this distorted, but extremely vibrant image. I don't really get skipped frames when imagining a scene, instead it warps and moves, with various objects in the scene transforming and unable to hold a standard color or shape. When I dream, it's literally like being on mushrooms. Everything seems to work with no rhyme or reason, the world falls out and replaces itself with bizarre interpretations of what reality looks like.
But nightmares... It's just pure indescribable horror. Things that are definitely there, but you know if you try to look too hard, something will happen. And that something might be worse than death. I've woken up in cold sweats trying to scream, but unable to find my voice.
Words and concepts mostly.
Yes, that makes reading so enjoyable.
CloudyTuba
Member
That facebook link was an interesting read. I don't even know how to recall the idea of a red triangle without picturing it. I can't imagine even being functional without mental images, it's an entirely alien kind of thinking to me. My brain's rolodex is mostly pictures.
Sure, all of my mental images are about as clear as a thick gaussian blur in photoshop, but they're there. My brain needs glasses.
Sure, all of my mental images are about as clear as a thick gaussian blur in photoshop, but they're there. My brain needs glasses.
Imperfected
Member
Here's a question: when you think of things, when you hear words in your head, are they in your voice?
I don't know if it's unusual or not, but for me, it isn't. I can't even make it be in my voice if I try. I don't know whose voice it is, if anyone's, but I know it doesn't sound like me, it doesn't even have my accent or intonation, and it's in a completely different register.
Is that normal?
I don't know if it's unusual or not, but for me, it isn't. I can't even make it be in my voice if I try. I don't know whose voice it is, if anyone's, but I know it doesn't sound like me, it doesn't even have my accent or intonation, and it's in a completely different register.
Is that normal?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention though is fight scenes.
I think of things in fight scenes a lot.
Like going to a store or reading a book, instead of thinking of just those things they are instead in the context of a fight scene.
So instead of thinking of someone just sitting down and reading a book, they are instead reading a book while fighting hand to hand with someone else.
I think of things in fight scenes a lot.
Like going to a store or reading a book, instead of thinking of just those things they are instead in the context of a fight scene.
So instead of thinking of someone just sitting down and reading a book, they are instead reading a book while fighting hand to hand with someone else.
freethoughtbubble
Member
I just realized that I read your post in a voice not my own. This thread is fucking scaring me.
I'm sorry this knowledge perturbs you, OP. I know it would bother me if I had this condition. Perhaps there are benefits, though? Maybe it aids in focusing on the here and now? For example, I often get distracted at work by my daydreams. Also, a drawing instructor once told me that people often mess up because instead of drawing what's before them they draw the image of the thing in their mind's eye. Are you better at drawing from life than from memory?
Edit: I'd also guess that your writing is above average since your memories are basically encoded in language primarily.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Yes. But it is often not clear for specific scenes, like say a thinking about a painting, the cover of an album, the look of your car when parked outside seen from your window, etc it is more like if you have pieces of it, and your mind fills in the rest, the edges blurring out.
Faces are a different story. You can see the face in your mind pretty clearly, even if the rest of the body is not there. That said, masturbation is very reliant on remembering how people's bodies look like, and putting them in scenes that don't really have to have happened for them to become clear pictures in your mind..
Yes.
You know, it must really be awful for people who not only can't visualise but can't play back music in their head either.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
"Hearing" words in your head in voiceless words is common. It is sometimes called the "milk voice."
Yes.
Walter White Walker
Member
Just reading that the image of pigs shooting across the sky immediately came to mind. Little pink pigs with twirly tails going *woosh* across the clouds.
Funyarinpa
Member
God damn. :c
Sad for you OP.
Sad for you OP.
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