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[ShenmueNextGen]

Journalist : What was your reaction to the problems embroiling the funding of the project, due to the clumsy statements of Andrew House (chief of Sony Computer Entertainment), and the reaction of certain journalists and players?

Cédric Biscay : It annoyed me because people forget that this game has never been able to be developed in the last 14 years, and so it's clear that the Kickstarter campaign played a vital role in its funding. I think that the media's desire to create buzz around this issue will strain our campaign by at least $2m. I don't have any words for the minority of journalists who seem to sometimes forget their duty to provide information by writing about their interpretations rather than facts. We know that to sell as much as we can we need to create a sensational game. Saying that Shenmue 3 is great and that it should be funded isn't going against the consensus, and so probably not interesting enough for them.
The people who have taken the time to read the statements and the official pages have all the information at their disposal. To put it clearly, without Kickstarter, Shenmue 3 would never have seen the light of day, and so the campaign is exactly what you're entitled to expect from participatory funding. Luckily, the Shenmue community is extraordinary and in the end I'm very happy with the campaign, especially from a human perspective. Most people understand that I committed Shibuya Productions to making Shenmue 3 so that the series could be brought back to life despite the risks that this entails. The thousands of thank-you messages I've received since E3 validate this approach and push us to keep on going.

(emphasis mine)
https://www.reddit.com/r/translator/comments/3de0mh/french_english_video_game_article_about_shenmue/

 

[Myggen]

Everything about the Gaming Media is nothing more than a marketing arm of the industry.

Word?

 

[Shadoken]

iam sorry, but its not just the fault of the press, its fault of sony as well as of the fans:

1. the press couldnt do better: who is covering the costs? which platforms? is sony behind this? if yes, why do they still need kickstarter? you cant pledge for game like shenmue. shenmue cost back in the day around 50m so, even if suzuki is going for a low-tech engine, a few millions arent enough!

2. sony didnt tell anyone why shenmue 3 and how they are behind this. yoshida told us, they were working one something but this....? iam still confused: is this an exclusive sony title? will this be available on the x1 or pc? or even wii u? i dont know.

3. so called fans NEVER support a game, when it releases. hundred decades later, people whine about why a certain franchise died off. guess what? you should have bought it back then day1. its the same about shenmue1+2+2()XB version) nobody, except sega fans gave a fuck.
.

1) Is Sony behind Hotline Miami? No. All they did was do the PS4 port and published it. Same deal with Shenmue 3. This has been known since Day 1. But "Journalists" keep thinking there is some conspiracy.

2) DAFUQ ? ... This game is coming for PC , that is the primary platform for the KS. Are you even attempting to know anything about the topic and just posting randomly.? Sony is only handling the PS4 port. Like they do for tons of other indie games.

3) Well its not our fault , fking peter moore screwed us over by signing off Shenmue 2 to the Xbox ( which had 0 install base in Japan ). If Shenmue 2 went to PS2 , it would have fared much better.
The first game sold 1.2m despite Dreamcast barely being 4m units or something.

The reason you are confused? You are just making assumptions based on clickbait headlines these gaming "journalists" are posting. Instead of what Yu Suzuki and the Shenmue team have said.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I backed this, but I agree with skepticism about whether this can deliver satisfactorily on such a small budget for an historically expensive game series.

$1 is more than $0

I think it's fair to view that some kind of non-trivial assistance from Sony to ensure it is a PS4 console exclusive, at least at first, and shown so prominently at Sony's biggest marketing show is the same as providing funding when it comes down to it.

 

[tiebreaker]

It was ridiculous. There were lots of concern trolling going on.

Having outside funding means the chance for this game to come out is higher than relying solely on kickstarter's fund. The more the better I say.

The big question was, "will this game will still be made even when the kickstarter fails? Sony is behind it after all. It's a scam"

They made it clear then that the game won't be made if it fails the kickstarter. Heck, being on kickstarter should actually mean that is the case.

There is being skeptical, and there is being overly skeptical.

 

[Krejlooc]

I think it's fair to view that some kind of non-trivial assistance from Sony to ensure it is a PS4 console exclusive, at least at first, and shown so prominently at Sony's biggest marketing show is the same as providing funding when it comes down to it.

I don't think that's fair to assume at all considering, after the kickstarter began, they said there was a chance that an Xbox One version to appear but it was up to microsoft.

Especially when they've come out since then and clarified that Sony's assistance is, indeed, trivial.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I don't think that's fair to assume at all considering, after the kickstarter began, they said there was a chance that an Xbox One version to appear but it was up to microsoft.

Especially when they've come out since then and clarified that Sony's assistance is, indeed, trivial.

I don't consider their involvement trivial exactly for the reason you state that MS is the one somehow responsible for a potential version on their console.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't consider their involvement trivial exactly for the reason you state that MS is the one somehow responsible for a potential version on their console.

Their involvement is trivial to development. It is not trivial to publishing on their platform. This is the reason they put the blame on microsoft for no xbone version.

Sony's involvement, according to interviews, doesn't affect development. The game will still come with or without sony or microsoft. Hence trivial.

Shenmue III existing does not hinge on Sony. Sony is not the reason why Shenmue III exists.

 

[oldergamer]

My only concern with the project is that I'm 100% sure we're not gonna play it by the end of 2017. I'm expecting it at least one full year later, so it's either a Q4 2018 or a Q1 2019 game.

Totally after.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Their involvement is trivial to development. It is not trivial to publishing on their platform. This is the reason they put the blame on microsoft for no xbone version.

Sony's involvement, according to interviews, doesn't affect development. The game will still come with or without sony or microsoft. Hence trivial.

Shenmue III existing does not hinge on Sony.

I never got that feeling at all about it happening without someone rather large and representing a large potential userbase to sell to, like Sony. After all, without a positive sign of a market to sell to, how could any investor have the confidence to fund it in the first place? I don't see how it could have happened without Sony or MS stepping in, but I guess that I haven't read up enough on this part of things. I'd like to see a quote or link to the statement since it seems to contradict Suzuki's thoughts on the matter before the KS happened.

 

[Shenmue]

I never got that feeling at all about it happening without someone rather large and representing a large potential userbase to sell to, like Sony. After all, without a positive sign of a market to sell to, how could any investor have the confidence to fund it in the first place? I don't see how it could have happened without Sony or MS stepping in, but I guess that I haven't read up enough on this part of things. I'd like to see a quote or link to the statement since it seems to contradict Suzuki's thoughts on the matter before the KS happened.

The positive sign of a market to sell to is the fans and their reaction to the Kickstarter. If you read the articles you'd see that Yu says that Ryan Payton is the one that gave him the idea to go with Kickstarter, after Ryan's success with Republique. He simply didn't even know that was a viable avenue previously.

How did all of those successful Kickstarter projects happen without either Sony or Microsoft? Because of the fans.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Did the Castlevania games cost as little to make as Bloodstained as well?

The last few 2D Action/RPG Castlevanias were portable entries with some sprite reuse so relatively speaking, they probably weren't too expensive. With that in mind, the $5 million dollars that they mentioned fairly early on ($500k on Kickstarter accounting for 10% of the budget with the other 90% provided by a publisher) seems reasonable enough. And Bloodstained did get some criticism over that, although not as much as Shenmue because they were transparent early on and because the Bloodstained campaign was incredibly well organized (unlike the Shenmue campaign). Seriously, I don't think I've seen another campaign on Kickstarter that was as slickly done as Bloodstained was.

 

[Krejlooc]

I never got that feeling at all about it happening without someone rather large and representing a large potential userbase to sell to, like Sony. After all, without a positive sign of a market to sell to, how could any investor have the confidence to fund it in the first place?

investors aren't the primary funding for shenmue 3, the kickstarter is.

 

[Whompa02]

Lol all those headlines. Poor showing. Those Gaming journalists just continue to embarrass the select few good ones out there...

 

[Shadoken]

I still wish Sony could have just struck a deal with Sega to publish Shenmue 1&2 HD and then use that to fund Shenmue 3 :/

All this negativity could have been avoided and they might have made more than $6m profit.

 

[Shenmue]

The last few 2D Action/RPG Castlevanias were portable entries with some sprite reuse so relatively speaking, they probably weren't too expensive. With that in mind, the $5 million dollars that they mentioned fairly early on ($500k on Kickstarter accounting for 10% of the budget with the other 90% provided by a publisher) seems reasonable enough. And Bloodstained did get some criticism over that, although not as much as Shenmue because they were transparent early on and because the Bloodstained campaign was incredibly well organized (unlike the Shenmue campaign). Seriously, I don't think I've seen another campaign on Kickstarter that was as slickly done as Bloodstained was.

That raises another issue. Although they did mention that 90% of the funding would be provided by a publisher, why didn't we get articles on:

1) Well if 90% of funding is provided by a publisher why did they even need to do a KS?

2) Where's the transparency on exactly how much the publisher is providing and who is the publisher exactly?

These kinds of questions have all be thrust on Shenmue and articles have been written based on those questions.

I still wish Sony could have just struck a deal with Sega to publish Shenmue 1&2 HD and then use that to fund Shenmue 3 :/

All this negativity could have been avoided and they might have made more than $6m profit.

Use what to fund Shenmue 3? There would likely be little to no proceeds from selling Shenmue 1 and 2 HD.

And what do you mean "they might have made more than $6m profit"? Neither Yu's team nor Sony is making "6m profit" from the KS.

 

[aizen59]

To make it simple :

Sony : PS4 version + marketing
Shibuya : PC version + marketing
YsNet + Neilo : development
Funds : Kickstarter + the actual Paypal campaign

Like Cedric said Shibuya is investing a lot into this project. If Sony was really backing up Shenmue III, there would be no need for a Paypal campaign to reach the latest Stretch Goals.

Funny thing is, people kept saying "stop dreaming, Shenmue III is never going to happen" during the last 14 years and now that It's finally coming, they are still here to whine about something else.

I don't know why people tend to hate Shenmue so much, but there's no real reason to. Yu Suzuki is being honest and clear about the budget. Adding new features such as the Magic Maze requires a specific amount. Stretch Goals have been added to many Kickstarter projects and Shenmue III is no exception. Star Citizen gathered more during the "After KS" period and yet, people are not whining about it so much.

Yu Suzuki's intentions are clear, he needs us. Even if we don't reach all the Stretch Goals, we're still getting Shenmue III and that's an awesome news. Of course, fans cannot expect everybody else to share their feelings but you can't expect fans, people who had to wait 14 years to see the Shenmue III announcement, to agree with people trying to bring down their favorite franchise.

No game is perfect and Shenmue III will have its share of good and bad points. But instead of trying to see what's wrong here and there all the time, can't we just enjoy the fact that it's finally coming ?

To be honest, I am looking forward to it, no matter what.

 

[R_thanatos]

How did it not? Boye's admitted it in the interview with Gerstmann and Suzuki said as much in his update on June 24th.

Also, while Bloodstained was also being used as a gauge of public interest for further funding, it wasn't announced on during the Sony E3 press conference. As I said in my post, that kind of shady crowdfunding campaign had been done previously, but not so blatantly.

I've read 445 post so far in this thread , and .... it seems like your only problem is that it was anonnced on a big stage.
Kickstarter projects works by getting the maximum of people involved. a big stage does the trick.
So the creator of a game comes to a big stage in order to gather goodwill from the gamers and it's a bad thing now ?
You're aware that he did nothing different than countless kickstarters before him , yet in his case it's a problem ?

I ...can't... follow you train of thought

Yu suzuki should have annonced this on a small blog burried in some obscure BBS, not on a worldwide visual feed that worked so well it actually crashed kickstarter...because ? /s
I'm sorry , but a creator , getting fan feedback for years ...YEARS going to conventions, talking about his work past and future , should for some obscure reason not take the venue that would help his project being made because you're concerned ??


WHAT

 

[Shadoken]

Use what to fund Shenmue 3? There would likely be little to no proceeds from selling Shenmue 1 and 2 HD.

And what do you mean "they might have made more than $6m profit"? Neither Yu's team nor Sony is making "6m profit" from the KS.

The money Sony is spending on publishing the PS4 port of Shenmue 3 could have been re-directed to Shenmue 1&2 HD. I meant $6m profit from selling Shenmue1&2 HD which in turn can fund Shenmue 3.

And what do you mean nobody would buy Shenmue 1&2 HD. 70,000 people most certainly would have bought. Multiple copies even.

 

[Shenmue]

The money Sony is spending on publishing the PS4 port of Shenmue 3 could have been re-directed to Shenmue 1&2 HD. I meant $6m profit from selling Shenmue1&2 HD which in turn can fund Shenmue 3.

And what do you mean nobody would buy Shenmue 1&2 HD. 70,000 people most certainly would have bought. Multiple copies even.

What?? How do you get $6m profit from selling Shenmue 1&2? How do you know what they are spending on publishing would even be a significant amount to be re-directed to Shenmue 1&2? How do you know all this??

Let's be real generous and say Sony could even make $30 in profit from each copy of an HD collection. They'd have to sell 200,000 copies. That's not even counting what they'd have to give to Sega or the production costs. That's not a given at all.

 

[GavinGT]

The money Sony is spending on publishing the PS4 port of Shenmue 3 could have been re-directed to Shenmue 1&2 HD. I meant $6m profit from selling Shenmue1&2 HD which in turn can fund Shenmue 3.

And what do you mean nobody would buy Shenmue 1&2 HD. 70,000 people most certainly would have bought. Multiple copies even.

Let's say Shenmue I+II HD sold a healthy 100k units at $20 for the pair of them. That's $2 million, of which 1/3 goes to the platform holder (Sony or MS). Then there's dev costs (I don't know enough to guess these), and it's rumored that there are also legal issues surrounding their re-release (the games supposedly use tech from now-defunct companies, so they'd have to sort out rights issues).

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

That raises another issue. Although they did mention that 90% of the funding would be provided by a publisher, why didn't we get articles on:

1) Well if 90% of funding is provided by a publisher why did they even need to do a KS?

2) Where's the transparency on exactly how much the publisher is providing and who is the publisher exactly?

These kinds of questions have all be thrust on Shenmue and articles have been written based on those questions.

Here's an article from Ben Kuchera (who is responsible for some of the articles in the OP here) talking about this stuff for Bloodstained: http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/12/8592901/bloodstain-kickstarter-castlevania-reboot

This isn't the death of the establishment, this is the establishment learning a few new tricks.

The idea of a Castlevania-style game being made for $500,000 was always absurd, especially with the high quality of the concept art. It turns out the real cost of the game is much higher, and it's being paid by unknown investors.

And here's a Gamasutra article: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/2431...arashi_returns_with_new_game_Bloodstained.php

The details I received say that the game already has funding -- can you talk about the source of that funding, and why you are also going to Kickstarter?

KI: All I can say right now is that after over a year of talking with just about every publisher out there, I was able to secure funding for about 90 percent of the game with the condition that I prove the market still wants an Igavania game. Kickstarter proved to be a great solution, as it would (hopefully) show that people still want an Igavania game while simultaneously providing funds for the core game.

That being said, I'm hoping to clear a few stretch goals so I can add some new features and modes that I've always wanted to do but was never able to in the past. Hopefully, the fact that I've been able to gather most of the investment myself will put to rest any fears that backers may have about this title not being released.

 

[Shadoken]

Let's say Shenmue I+II HD sold a healthy 100k units at $20 for the pair of them. That's $2 million, of which 1/3 goes to the platform holder (Sony or MS). Then there's dev costs (I don't know enough to guess these), and it's rumored that there are also legal issues surrounding their re-release.

Well if the money is going back to Sony it does help them fund Shenmue 3 with it right? And this also nets them a solid franchise on their end.
Plus literally everyone wants a Shenmue 1&2 HD right now.

What?? How do you get $6m profit from selling Shenmue 1&2? How do you know what they are spending on publishing would even be a significant amount to be re-directed to Shenmue 1&2? How do you know all this??

Let's be real generous and say Sony could even make $30 in profit from each copy of an HD collection. They'd have to sell 200,000 copies. That's not even counting what they'd have to give to Sega or the production costs. That's not a given at all.

Shenmue 1&2 were already finished. There was an article somwhere about it , but Sega didnt want to publish the game.
Clearly publishing a finished game is going to be cheaper than porting over a brand new game right?

And cmon after reaching 70,000 on KS which is basically people pre-pre ordering a game 2 years down the line. These are like the most hardcore of hardcore people. There are still plenty of people interested in the series but would gladly buy a HD remake than back a kickstarter.

And here's a Gamasutra article: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/2431...arashi_returns_with_new_game_Bloodstained.php

See how this article is headlined Q&A with Igarashi instead of some sensationalist BS? Why cant the Shenmue headlines also be like this.
But noooo , instead we get shit like Yu Suzuki - I need more money!.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

See how this article is headlined Q&A with Igarashi instead of some sensationalist BS? Why cant the Shenmue headlines also be like this.

Gamasutra is a site for industry professionals. They're going to have a very different tone than your average video game site.

And cmon after reaching 70,000 on KS which is basically people pre-pre ordering a game 2 years down the line. These are like the most hardcore of hardcore people. There are still plenty of people interested in the series but would gladly buy a HD remake than back a kickstarter.

You really can't use the hardcore fans of an old game series as any sort of estimate for current mainstream interest.

 

[IAmRandom31]

It really does make absolutely no sense. It is mind blowing if you ask me. People waiting over a decade for the game just to quibble over how it is funded or who funds it or why.

That one post stating that the difference between the average forum poster and a dedicated gaming journalist growing ever so slim was spot on. I can't stand our media outlets.

 

[Shadoken]

You really can't use the hardcore fans of an old game series as any sort of estimate for mainstream interest.

I know.... But people just keep saying this. First it was Shenmue wont raise $2m and then this happens. Shenmue is bigger than most people think.

Like I keep seeing so many people show interest for Shenmue HD. Many people who are interested in its legacy , but obviously not backing a KS ( which doesn't give you a product until 2 years ).

If 70k are hardcore is reaching a number like 100k really that hard? I mean are people literally assuming Shenmue 3 is going to sell 0 units and that all its sales are from the backers?

Both Shenmue games are critically well received games and were on platforms not many people owned. It is also a franchise that has been hyped up for 14 years now. There are going to be many people who want to try it out.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

For comparison, Grandia 2 (another beloved Dreamcast classic) just got an enhanced version on Steam a little over a month ago. It's up to 24k sales at $15 (launch) to $20 (regular) price. Now that's a decent chunk of change for a few weeks of sales for a port that hopefully wasn't too hard to make. And the game will continue to sell and make money for years. I have no doubt that Gungho has or is going to make a profit on the whole thing and it might even sell enough to convince Gungho that they should make a new Grandia game, but I don't see it making enough in its lifetime to fully fund a sequel, unless the budget is drastically lower than previous games in the series.

If Sega had released Shenmue 1 & 2 HD on Steam at $20, I think there's a good chance that it would sell faster than Grandia 2 Steam, maybe even a lot more but I still don't see it selling fast enough that it could fund Shenmue 3 in any reasonable amount of time by itself. And with that said, I do think that it would have been smart of Sega to have done HD rereleases as a way to test the waters, but they seem happy with the Yakuza series being their Shenmue replacement.

 

[Spaghetti]

From anecdotal evidence of that month in the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter thread, backers seem to be a mix of hardcore fans, people with some interest in the series, and people who want to see the game happen without any connection to Shenmue.

Does this mean the hardcore base was tapped out? No. I saw plenty of dyed in the wool Shenmue fans not donate for their own personal reasons. Likewise, people with no interest besides wanting to see one of the last white whales of gaming happen chipped in to the campaign.

Pulling apart that 70,000 backer number and trying to convert it into potential sales and demographics for when the game actually comes out is pointless.

What I will tell you is that the surge in interest for copies on eBay, Amazon, and the number of LTTP threads for Shenmue we had after the Kickstarter announcement lead me to believe there is genuine interest in Shenmue. It's a real oddity of a game, and luckily we are in an era where that is valued a lot more highly than it was 15 years ago.

It absolutely had to be the announcement of Shenmue 3 that helped spark that interest though. Anything else would be just spinning its wheels.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

For comparison, Grandia 2 (another beloved Dreamcast classic) just got an enhanced version on Steam a little over a month ago. It's up to 24k sales at $15 (launch) to $20 (regular) price. Now that's a decent chunk of change for a few weeks of sales for a port that hopefully wasn't too hard to make. And the game will continue to sell and make money for years. I have no doubt that Gungho has or is going to make a profit on the whole thing and it might even sell enough to convince Gungho that they should make a new Grandia game, but I don't see it making enough in its lifetime to fully fund a sequel, unless the budget is drastically lower than previous games in the series.

If Sega had released Shenmue 1 & 2 HD on Steam at $20, I think there's a good chance that it would sell faster than Grandia 2 Steam, maybe even a lot more but I still don't see it selling fast enough that it could fund Shenmue 3 in any reasonable amount of time by itself. And with that said, I do think that it would have been smart of Sega to have done HD rereleases as a way to test the waters, but they seem happy with the Yakuza series being their Shenmue replacement.

Ys was never going to get any of the money though outside of royalties for Suzuki. Shenmue HD is Sega's problem. They'd much rather port Sonic Boom to PC instead.

 

[Krejlooc]

For comparison, Grandia 2 (another beloved Dreamcast classic) just got an enhanced version on Steam a little over a month ago. It's up to 24k sales at $15 (launch) to $20 (regular) price. Now that's a decent chunk of change for a few weeks of sales for a port that hopefully wasn't too hard to make. And the game will continue to sell and make money for years. I have no doubt that Gungho has or is going to make a profit on the whole thing and it might even sell enough to convince Gungho that they should make a new Grandia game, but I don't see it making enough in its lifetime to fully fund a sequel, unless the budget is drastically lower than previous games in the series.

If Sega had released Shenmue 1 & 2 HD on Steam at $20, I think there's a good chance that it would sell faster than Grandia 2 Steam, maybe even a lot more but I still don't see it selling fast enough that it could fund Shenmue 3 in any reasonable amount of time by itself. And with that said, I do think that it would have been smart of Sega to have done HD rereleases as a way to test the waters, but they seem happy with the Yakuza series being their Shenmue replacement.

Grandia 2 is hardly comparable to shenmue. Shenmue enjoyed over a 1:10 attach rate with the dream cast.

 

[openrob]

It's ablosutely disguting and I think the updated OP lays it out somewhat.
Certain things were said as part of a larger discussion, and then blown out of proportion by being quoted out of context and used as headlines. E.g. "10 Million the game could truley have the features of an open world". Then started the "It'll make 10m", "It's misleading about the "true" cost of development, and this proves that they have millions coming in from elsewhere".

When in fact the true cost of development is whatever they get in the end. If they have 6.3M, that is the cost of development, if they have an extra 5mil from other sources, then that is how much the game will cost.

But basically the underlying theme behind all these articles is the feeling that we are being mislead, used, and scammed. We are not. The game was funded, and would not be made otherwise. External funding would only be an issue if the kickstarter wasn't needed.
It was.

Sony is not developing the game. Many examples of console exclusives from 3rd party. - released on PC, but Sony/Microsoft pay to keep it off the competitors system and give themselves a selling point. (e.g. Street Fighter 5, Tomb Radier). However, because this was a kickstarter, suddenly people feel that the DEVELOPER is shady.

You have indy games like No Mans Sky, which is receiving marketing and development support from Sony, and "Is being treated like a first party release".

Yet when searching "No Mans Sky and Sony relationship" you get basically nothing. (The articles are all positive, or neutral)

But the same with Shenmue...

Uggghhh...
I just don't actually know what people are worried about

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

To make it simple :

Sony : PS4 version + marketing
Shibuya : PC version + marketing
YsNet + Neilo : development
Funds : Kickstarter + the actual Paypal campaign

Like Cedric said Shibuya is investing a lot into this project. If Sony was really backing up Shenmue III, there would be no need for a Paypal campaign to reach the latest Stretch Goals.

Funny thing is, people kept saying "stop dreaming, Shenmue III is never going to happen" during the last 14 years and now that It's finally coming, they are still here to whine about something else.

I don't know why people tend to hate Shenmue so much, but there's no real reason to. Yu Suzuki is being honest and clear about the budget. Adding new features such as the Magic Maze requires a specific amount. Stretch Goals have been added to many Kickstarter projects and Shenmue III is no exception. Star Citizen gathered more during the "After KS" period and yet, people are not whining about it so much.

Yu Suzuki's intentions are clear, he needs us. Even if we don't reach all the Stretch Goals, we're still getting Shenmue III and that's an awesome news. Of course, fans cannot expect everybody else to share their feelings but you can't expect fans, people who had to wait 14 years to see the Shenmue III announcement, to agree with people trying to bring down their favorite franchise.

No game is perfect and Shenmue III will have its share of good and bad points. But instead of trying to see what's wrong here and there all the time, can't we just enjoy the fact that it's finally coming ?

To be honest, I am looking forward to it, no matter what.

A very concise and clear post that addresses alot of the unnecessary nonsense that the gaming media and others are trying to spread.

Good job.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Grandia 2 is hardly comparable to shenmue. Shenmue enjoyed over a 1:10 attach rate with the dream cast.

Figure I saw for Shenmue is 1.2 million. Famitsu has Grandia 2 Japanese sales at 184k. I gotta imagine it sold something outside of Japan as well seeing as how it was arguably the best RPG on the system (sorry PSO & Skies of Arcadia). Obviously Shenmue sold more, but I think Grandia 2 sold well enough & is critically acclaimed enough to offer a good ballpark example of how well a Dreamcast enhanced port can sell in this day and age. Assuming similar pricing, multiply by the appropriate amount to get a Shenmue HD estimate.

 

[Krejlooc]

Figure I saw for Shenmue is 1.2 million. Famitsu has Grandia 2 Japanese sales at 184k. I gotta imagine it sold something outside of Japan as well seeing as how it was arguably the best RPG on the system (sorry PSO & Skies of Arcadia). Obviously Shenmue sold more, but I think Grandia 2 sold well enough & is critically acclaimed enough to offer a good ballpark example of how well a Dreamcast enhanced port can sell in this day and age. Assuming similar pricing, multiply by the appropriate amount to get a Shenmue HD estimate.

Shenmue sold better on the outset and, unlike grandia 2, there is a huge demand among those who played them originally to play them again in anticipation of the story continuing. I don't think this is a very good comparison at all. I think Shenmue I and II HD would have done poorly on steam prior to the Shenmue 3 announcement, but I think they'd do leaps and bounds better now. The reason being that, unlike grandia or even final fantasy 7 remake, shenmue isn't really a "series" - all the games are meant to be taken in all at once as one really long game. The individual games don't even have resolutions or even really endings - they just cut off because the entire thing is supposed to be one really long story. I know a lot of people, as an example, who never finished Shenmue II - not because they didn't want to, but because the prospect of starting a story that ends 30% in is very unappealing.

Further, the genre of game that Grandia 2 occupies is obviously less popular today than it was back in 2001, while the type of game Shenmue was is more popular today than it was back in 2001.

 

[Shadoken]

Even if Shenmue 3 comes out and is an amazing game that fans wanted.
I am sure these "Journalists" will start posting literally every flaw they can find out say the whole franchise was overrated.

Before Shenmue 3 it was " Shenmue is an overrated niche franchise thats about sailors"
During the KS " Shenmue is a giant scam by Yu Suzuki"
After the game comes out " Shenmue 3 is nowhere near the other two games , you have been scammed"


Thanks for your "concern" journalists but the game will sell and your shitty sites will continue to become irrelevant. Shenmue will continue

 

[Maligna]

Even if Shenmue 3 comes out and is an amazing game that fans wanted.
I am sure these "Journalists" will start posting literally every flaw they can find out say the whole franchise was overrated.

Before Shenmue 3 it was " Shenmue is an overrated niche franchise thats about sailors"
During the KS " Shenmue is a giant scam by Yu Suzuki"
After the game comes out " Shenmue 3 is nowhere near the other two games , you have been scammed"


Thanks for your "concern" journalists but the game will sell and your shitty sites will continue to become irrelevant. Shenmue will continue

You'd think us Shenmue fans would be used to getting kicked in the nuts by now. But when this happens, it will still make me rage.

 

[Laevateinn]

Figure I saw for Shenmue is 1.2 million. Famitsu has Grandia 2 Japanese sales at 184k. I gotta imagine it sold something outside of Japan as well seeing as how it was arguably the best RPG on the system (sorry PSO & Skies of Arcadia). Obviously Shenmue sold more, but I think Grandia 2 sold well enough & is critically acclaimed enough to offer a good ballpark example of how well a Dreamcast enhanced port can sell in this day and age. Assuming similar pricing, multiply by the appropriate amount to get a Shenmue HD estimate.

I'm really looking forward to CSH but you're wrong and those are fighting words.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I always wanted to rant to these "journalists" about how wrong they are, but criticisms almost always fall on deaf ears.

I do wish Shu was better able to communicate Sony's role with Shenmue 3 and similar indie projects. As soon as a journalist "report" comes out all he needed to say was "We are not funding the game. We are making sure that a PS4 version doesn't become a 'stretch goal'. We will take care of the costs of porting the final product, whatever it is, to our platform. No more, no less."

 

[Laevateinn]

To be honest, my complaint about Sony's involvement is they allowed the perception of it to be inflated. If Sony stepped in at this point and dropped another 5 million on its development I would be ecstatic. I wouldn't complain about how "shady" they are for "manipulating the fans" or whatever bullshit concern trolls and Polygon is whining about at the moment.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

SI don't think this is a very good comparison at all. I think Shenmue I and II HD would have done poorly on steam prior to the Shenmue 3 announcement, but I think they'd do leaps and bounds better now.

Now this, I agree 100%. I was talking about a situation where the S3 kickstarter never happened and Sega instead used HD ports/remakes to test the waters. If Sega were to do an HD rerelease now, I think it would do noticeably better than it would have if they had done one a couple years ago.

I know a lot of people, as an example, who never finished Shenmue II - not because they didn't want to, but because the prospect of starting a story that ends 30% in is very unappealing.

Which is why not finishing the current story with Shenmue 3 is a really bad idea IMO. The prospect of starting a story that might end at 50% is pretty unappealing too. This is a series that failed to get sequels once so there's definitely the possibility that it'll happen again.

Further, the genre of game that Grandia 2 occupies is obviously less popular today than it was back in 2001, while the type of game Shenmue was is more popular today than it was back in 2001.

Not going to address the RPG/JRPG comment to avoid getting too far off topic, but Shenmue's genre being so popular also means that there's an extreme amount of competition there. Shenmue 3 is going to be competing directly against some of the games with the biggest budgets for both development and marketing.

I'm really looking forward to CSH but you're wrong and those are fighting words.

Skies was really good, even though I liked Grandia 2 more. I can't forgive PSO for changing one of my favorite turn-based RPG series into a colorful Diablo clone though.

 

[Shenmue]

Here's an article from Ben Kuchera (who is responsible for some of the articles in the OP here) talking about this stuff for Bloodstained: http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/12/8592901/bloodstain-kickstarter-castlevania-reboot

While the article touches on some of those things, I think you can see that that article is worlds apart from his article on Shenmue 3. Those points he references are not the thrust of the article on Bloodstained. I mean the last paragraph is titled "THIS IS OK".

The point of his article for Bloodstained wasn't even really about Bloodstained. It was about how KS, despite what people believe, is just the old industry that only banks on sure things in another form.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

While the article touches on some of those things, I think you can see that that article is worlds apart from his article on Shenmue 3. Those points he references are not the thrust of the article on Bloodstained. I mean the last paragraph is titled "THIS IS OK".

In one of his Shenmue articles, he specifically links to his Bloodstained article and then proceeds to explain why he thinks Shenmue handled the situation worse than Bloodstained.

This is different from Kickstarters like Bloodstained obfuscating the true cost of the game a bit; that campaign was upfront and transparent about other sources of funding and the budget of the game.

 

[Krejlooc]

Which is why not finishing the current story with Shenmue 3 is a really bad idea IMO. The prospect of starting a story that might end at 50% is pretty unappealing too. This is a series that failed to get sequels once so there's definitely the possibility that it'll happen again.

I disagree - the story and pacing of Shenmue is extremely deliberate. Ending the story at Shenmue 3 would be like if Midgar was 90% of FFVII, and the remaining portion of the game was whizzed by at a lighting pace. Shenmue 1 is basically a prologue, shenmue II is the very beginning of the story. It would be weird for the meat of the game to wind up taking up a lesser percentage of the overall "game" than the setup. Hell, I hope Shenmue 4 isn't the last one either.

Your earlier comment about them just quickly wrapping up the story in Shenmue 3, then leaving it open for a sequel isn't how these games work at all. Like I said, the individual games don't have resolutions. They really aren't meant to be taken in isolation. Shenmue 3 isn't really a sequel - it's a part of a story that has been set in stone for over a decade now

Not going to address the RPG/JRPG comment to avoid getting too far off topic, but Shenmue's genre being so popular also means that there's an extreme amount of competition there. Shenmue 3 is going to be competing directly against some of the games with the biggest budgets for both development and marketing.

Shenmue has enough going on for it to be unique. Shenmue is the grandfather of the modern AAA cinematic title. But at the same time, there is really no game out there like shenmue. The closest comparisons would be Harvest moon, or Majora's Mask. What other game could you compare to those two games? Shenmue often gets cited as an open world game, but it's really more of a big budget adventure title with cinematic styling wrapped up in a life sim. There is little competition out there for Shenmue. it'll be competing against the Heavy Rains and Walking Deads of the world, not the GTAVs.

Skies was really good, even though I liked Grandia 2 more. I can't forgive PSO for changing one of my favorite turn-based RPG series into a colorful Diablo clone though.

I remember being so starved for RPGs on the Dreamcast that I put so many hours into the two evolution games. The Dreamcast was great for Arcade games... not so much RPGs.

 

[Laevateinn]

Which is why not finishing the current story with Shenmue 3 is a really bad idea IMO. The prospect of starting a story that might end at 50% is pretty unappealing too. This is a series that failed to get sequels once so there's definitely the possibility that it'll happen again.

Shenmue won't work ending in the third game. It is just building up it's crescendo and ending it now would climax too early. Climaxing early is never good.

Skies was really good, even though I liked Grandia 2 more. I can't forgive PSO for changing one of my favorite turn-based RPG series into a colorful Diablo clone though.

I agree and disagree. I would love a Phantasy Star 5 but PSO is what introduced me to the series so I can't fault PSO. Besides, PSO is probably the best Rogue-like I've ever played. I wonder what its legacy would've been had it not had the Phantasy Star license attached to it as originally planned.

 

[Heartfyre]

I was annoyed by many of these misinformed articles during the Kickstarter campaign, but now that it's over and has been the highest-funded video game in crowdfunding history, all of that annoyance has just washed away. I'm happy to leave all those people mired in their ignorance now that it won't affect the game's budget at all.

 

[Krejlooc]

Shenmue won't work ending in the third game. It is just building up it's crescendo and ending it now would climax too early. Climaxing early is never good.

It would be bizarre pacing - hell, I think the series already has weird pacing with Shenmue I being an entire game (honestly, in terms of story, it should have been a 30-minute chapter in what became Shenmue II, despite me loving the gameplay).

But ending things in Shenmue III would be really, really bizarre. The series goes into hyper intricate detail and has a very slow build up, but so much is going to happen going forward.

Like another comparison - imagine if Star Wars: The Phantom Menace was one movie, then all the other movies were combined into one 2-hour long movie. That would fuck with pacing in all sorts of ways.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I disagree - the story and pacing of Shenmue is extremely deliberate. Ending the story at Shenmue 3 would be like if Midgar was 90% of FFVII, and the remaining portion of the game was whizzed by at a lighting pace.

Could have quite possibly been a much better game - Midgar is by far my favorite part of FF7! Last two times I've tried to replay FF7, I just stop after Midgar is done.

it'll be competing against the Heavy Rains and Walking Deads of the world, not the GTAVs.

Hopefully most people think that way and aren't expecting a big bombastic open world game.

I remember being so starved for RPGs on the Dreamcast that I put so many hours into the two evolution games. The Dreamcast was great for Arcade games... not so much RPGs.

Yeah, I played Evolution as well. Not bad but not exactly a big selling point for the system. Now that Grandia 2 (Steam) & Skies of Arcadia (Gamecube) have decent ports elsewhere, the system doesn't hold much for me.

 

[Shenmue]

In one of his Shenmue articles, he specifically links to his Bloodstained article and then proceeds to explain why he thinks Shenmue handled the situation worse than Bloodstained.

But that is not the reason for him writing the unprofessional, clickbait piece dated 10/5/15. I'm fine with him being critical that Shenmue was not just as transparent as Bloodstained in a previous article. Nobody is arguing that Shenmue was run just as organized as Bloodstained. What he wrote yesterday was premised on bullshit and nothing else.

From the getgo we were told Sony were not playing a significant role in funding the game. That wasn't a lie, they still aren't. In fact no outside sources are funding the game that significantly and we've been told that and have no reason to believe that isn't true as well. It's not as transparent as 90% of the funding will be from outside sources, but it's not some bs either.

 

[Krejlooc]

Could have quite possibly been a much better game - Midgar is by far my favorite part of FF7! Last two times I've tried to replay FF7, I just stop after Midgar is done.

While I agree that midgar is the best part of ffvii, surely you get my point. And unlike ffvii, shenmue's opening is NOT its best part. The back half of shenmue 2 thusfar is. Its a series that has been getting better as it goes along.

 

[Windom Earle]

Even if Shenmue 3 comes out and is an amazing game that fans wanted.
I am sure these "Journalists" will start posting literally every flaw they can find out say the whole franchise was overrated.

Before Shenmue 3 it was " Shenmue is an overrated niche franchise thats about sailors"
During the KS " Shenmue is a giant scam by Yu Suzuki"
After the game comes out " Shenmue 3 is nowhere near the other two games , you have been scammed"


Thanks for your "concern" journalists but the game will sell and your shitty sites will continue to become irrelevant. Shenmue will continue

Ugh, so true. :/ People just love to hate on Shenmue.