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[Lo-Volt]

Kennedy endorsement is official... happening tomorrow (and JFK's daughter who wrote the NYT article will be there too).

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/ted_kennedy_end.html

And is also the top New York Times story. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/kennedy-to-endorse-obama/index.html?hp That's got to be good news for the Obama campaign going into the next round.

 

[harSon]

Anything is possible. I still don't discount that Obama could just win the nomination although he has some long odds. I think Hillary wouldn't be making a smart move if she didn't offer it to him if she receives the nomination. If Obama turned it down that also wouldn't be a smart move in my book as who knows what the future holds and being the VP is the most sure slot to becoming a president. But whatever happens I'm sure it will be interesting.

Becoming President after serving as Vice President is dependent on how well the President you are serving under is received. I'm fairly sure Al Gore would have won the election had Bill Clinton ended his second term on a good note instead of a scandalous one.

 

[Chichikov]

A common misconception is the fact being the First Lady of Arkansas and the United States count as experience. Theres no doubt that she has more experience than Obama, but the Gap is not as wide as she'd like us to believe.

I don't know a lot about the Clintons' time in Little Rock, but while being a first lady does automatically mean political experience, Hillary was very active and involved in her husband's administration.
More visibly in the first term, but she working the system and gaining experience during the entire 8 years.
I don't know how valuable it is or how do you even measure "the experience gap" (is this like the mineshaft gap?) but her time there was pretty much as close as you can get to an executive experience without being elected to a position.

And I'm far from a Clinton supporter.

 

[impirius]

The perfect combo for taking down the Soviet Union! *bangs desk*

Richardson can send our operatives messages in Morse code during his press conferences

 

[Stoney Mason]

Becoming President after serving as Vice President is dependent on how well the President you are serving under is received. I'm fairly sure Al Gore would have won the election had Bill Clinton ended his second term on a good note instead of a scandalous one.

Al Gore would have won the election if he had run a better campaign despite all the chicanery. It should have never been that close.

 

[Tamanon]

Al Gore was basically BORN to be a second-fiddle/idea man, not a leader.

 

[Particle Physicist]

And that's no reason to start saying things like "fuck women" or "fuck that cunt" or "fuck this country," etc, like many of the Obama Nation fanboys have done whenever Hillary has gotten any traction. I mean, there really are "change" candidates. They're the ones with the least support. They're the Ron Pauls and the Sue-ciniches. There's a reason few people support them.

i think thats peoples frustrations manifesting themselves in a negative manner. it certainly is uncalled for.

but one thing you have to consider before deeming hillary and obama similar politicians, is their methodology. many people have huge issues with hillary's 'do whatever it takes, screw the consequences' attitude. that, in its self creates a huge disparity between the candidates, and some very valid differences.

 

[harSon]

Al Gore would have won the election if he had run a better campaign despite all the chicanery. It should have never been that close.

I know, I'm just saying the Vice President position can be every bit as hurtful as helpful.

 

[Chichikov]

Anything is possible. I still don't discount that Obama could just win the nomination although he has some long odds. I think Hillary wouldn't be making a smart move if she didn't offer it to him if she receives the nomination. If Obama turned it down that also wouldn't be a smart move in my book as who knows what the future holds and being the VP is the most sure slot to becoming a president. But whatever happens I'm sure it will be interesting.

Of course, we're all just guessing.
And I do believe Hillary will offer Obama to be her running mate.
I just don't think he'll want to take this position.
I believe that whoever wins this is going to be a one termer.
You'll have to raise taxes to fix the deficit, the economy is fucked and Iraq is a lose-lose.
Being a VP who loses the incumbency election is not a good career move.
Not to mention that it will kill his "fresh outsider" angle.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I know, I'm just saying the Vice President position can be every bit as hurtful as helpful.

I agree it can be hurtful if you have an awful presidency but since Hillary and Obama share nearly all the same positions despite what the campaigns will tell you, I think the odds are they would have a decent presidency if you believe their similar positions mean they would end up with similar situations and policies. Since this is one of those rare years where the VP isn't running (and is hated), I think people forget how much recognition that position has.

 

[Chichikov]

Becoming President after serving as Vice President is dependent on how well the President you are serving under is received. I'm fairly sure Al Gore would have won the election had Bill Clinton ended his second term on a good note instead of a scandalous one.

Clinton left office with the highest approval rating in 50 years.

 

[Tamanon]

Yeah, at the end of the day, we won't be out of Iraq in 4 years. Toss that in with raising taxes and a healthcare plan that will take a while to actually implement and it's going to be a tough re-election.

 

[Cheebs]

Over 70% of Americans were satisfied with Bill Clinton's job as President in 2000. Bill Clinton had the highest approval ratings of any two term president going into the next election of any president EVER in modern history. Higher than Reagan.

Al Gore lost the election, not Bill Clinton.

 

[harSon]

Over 70% of Americans were satisfied with Bill Clinton's job as President in 2000.

Al Gore lost the election, not Bill Clinton.

Al Gore was certainly the largest cause for losing the election but you honestly can't believe that he wouldn't have done better had the whole Clinton scandal not occurred. Especially since the difference between the winner and loser's results were so damn minimal.

 

[APF]

It's a common and demeaning lie on the part of the Obamapologists to suggest that Hillary had no role in policy making, simply because she was First Lady. It's also ironic when set in contrast to Obama's whining about the two Clintons "ganging-up" on him (a tactic that, it should be noted, Obama certainly didn't disagree with when it was him doing the ganging--f/e in the debates--with Hillary the victim of those gang-related activities), and quipping that he didn't know who was running against him (I guess he's also getting senile in his young age?)...


Edit: at the time of the loss, many people suggested Gore would have done better had he not distanced himself from Clinton so much.

 

[harSon]

It's a common and demeaning lie on the part of the Obamapologists to suggest that Hillary had no role in policy making, simply because she was First Lady. It's also ironic when set in contrast to Obama's whining about the two Clintons "ganging-up" on him (a tactic that, it should be noted, Obama certainly didn't disagree with when it was him doing the ganging--f/e in the debates--with Hillary the victim of those gang-related activities), and quipping that he didn't know who was running against him (I guess he's also getting senile in his young age?)...

She definitely had a roll as First Lady of Arkansas and the United States but to count that as 35 years of concrete political experience is a bit of a stretch no?

Edit: at the time of the loss, many people suggested Gore would have done better had he not distanced himself from Clinton so much.

He wouldn't have needed to distance himself at all if Clinton had not took part in a scandalous relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

 

[Cheebs]

Al Gore was certainly the largest cause for losing the election but you honestly can't believe that he wouldn't have done better had the whole Clinton scandal not occurred. Especially since the difference between the winner and loser's results were so damn minimal.

Bill Clinton's approval ratings went UP during the scandal. The republicans tactics backfired and it was seen as them ganging up on Bill.

If the public rallied around Bill during the scandal why would it hurt Gore? Bill Clinton was easily the victor of the monica scandal.

 

[APF]

The point was, he didn't need to distance himself in the first place.

 

[Cooter]

May I ask what you like about Hillary APF?

Maybe it's your dislike for Obama that is coming across as fondness for Hillary. I'm not sure but I'm curious.

 

[Tamanon]

I'm actually starting to think APF really is Rupert Murdoch.

 

[Particle Physicist]

It's also ironic when set in contrast to Obama's whining about the two Clintons "ganging-up" on him (a tactic that, it should be noted, Obama certainly didn't disagree with when it was him doing the ganging--f/e in the debates--with Hillary the victim of those gang-related activities), and quipping that he didn't know who was running against him (I guess he's also getting senile in his young age?)...

the obama, edwards 'gang-up' during that one moment in that one debate is nowhere near in the same vein as the hillary/bill team candidacy that they have been employing.*


not saying hillary and bill arent allowed to do that, but you cant equate the things.

 

[harSon]

May I ask what you like about Hillary APF?

Maybe it's your dislike for Obama that is coming across as fondness for Hillary. I'm not sure but I'm curious.

I'm not sure that he likes anything, reminds me of Glenn Beck.

 

[GDJustin]

If Obama isn't the nominee this time around, he'll be back in eight years with more experience under his belt, and will likely be a (near) shoe-in for the nom.

 

[harSon]

If Obama isn't the nominee this time around, he'll be back in eight years with more experience under his belt, and will likely be a (near) shoe-in for the nom.

Depends.

 

[Incognito]

as said on chris matthews show this morning he'd be foolish not to if he wanted to be president down the line. Its safer as VP then sitting in the senate for 8 more years.

If he doesn't win the presidency he's going to run for Governor of Illinois in 2010. The groundwork is already being laid.

 

[Cheebs]

Depends.

on what? Nearly every single time a second place finisher comes back again. Even not second places.


Reagan, Bush Sr., Gore, Biden, Nixon....etc all people who tried before and failed and tried again later on.

Hell gore ran in 1988, it took him 12 years to get nominated.

 

[Chichikov]

If Obama isn't the nominee this time around, he'll be back in eight years with more experience under his belt, and will likely be a (near) shoe-in for the nom.

The longer your are in the Senate, the harder it is to win the election.
There are so many omnibus bills and random midnight votes on your record that no matter what you did you can be painted as either a flip-flopper or a backer of a super unpopular position.
Even Clinton who's not only extremely politically conscious but have been planning to run for president at least for the last 4 years (and probably ever since she got elected) was burned by her voting record.

 

[Cheebs]

The longer your are in the Senate, the harder it is to win the election.
There are so many omnibus bills and random midnight votes on your record that no matter what you did you can be painted as either a flip-flopper or a backer of a super unpopular position.
Even Clinton who's not only extremely politically conscious but have been planning to run for president at least for the last 4 years (and probably ever since she got elected) was burned by her voting record.

which is why he will accept vp or as said above run for governer. He has plans to be president and will take one of those two paths.

 

[Chichikov]

which is why he will accept vp or as said above run for governer. He has plans to be president and will take one of those two paths.

I did not know about his governor plans, if he has long term ambitions for the white house, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Cheebs]

I did not know about his governor plans, if he has long term ambitions for the white house, that makes perfect sense.

Also take note. Only 2 VP's have not been nominated by their party since Nixon in 1960. And they were Quayle and Cheney. Cheney never wanted to run and Quayle was considered one of the worst VP's in history. The VP slot is a VERY good stepping stone.

 

[ToxicAdam]

He wouldn't have needed to distance himself at all if Clinton had not took part in a scandalous relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

If you believe the Monica Lewinsky affair was all that clouded the Clinton administration, than you need to reacquaint yourself with his second term.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Also take note. Only 2 VP's have not been nominated by their party since Nixon in 1960. And they were Quayle and Cheney. Cheney never wanted to run and Quayle was considered one of the worst VP's in history. The VP slot is a VERY good stepping stone.

i doubt hillary would offer him the vp if she gets the nomination.

 

[harSon]

If you believe the Monica Lewinsky affair was all that clouded the Clinton administration, than you need to reacquaint yourself with his second term.

I don't recall making that statement.

 

[Incognito]

Gov. Kathleen Sebelius (D-KS) will deliver the Democratic response to the State of the Union on Monday.

And then Tuesday, she'll return to Kansas to endorse Barack Obama, numerous Democratic sources said.

The sources said that Sebelius decided some time ago that Obama was her candidate but decided to wait until after the State of the Union.

An Obama spokesperson declined to comment.

"Right now, the Governor's focus is on delivering her response to the President's State of the Union message Monday night," said Nicole Corcoran, communications director to Sebelius. "The Governor will have more to say about the presidential campaign after Monday."

another superD for Obama. sebelius has been talked up quite awhile now as a potential VP candidate and she's had great success in kansas at flipping republicans into democrats. it'll be interesting to see her SOTU response on monday night.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

another superD for Obama. sebelius has been talked up quite awhile now as a potential VP candidate and she's had great success in kansas at flipping republicans into democrats. it'll be interesting to see her SOTU response on monday night.

"A very stilted and tired performance. Very unlike the one given by the extremely talented and competent Barack Obama."

 

[ToxicAdam]

I don't recall making that statement.

You clearly blamed the Lewinsky affair for (the main reason) Gore distanced himself from the Clinton regime.

It was more complicated than that. Gore had an image problem as being a "second fiddle" (much like Bush Sr. had to fight in 88). His campaign felt the best way to do that was to completely break away from that timespan. It wasn't a big deal, because Gore hadn't done anything remarkable during his tenure as vice president anyways (you could make the argument that Hillary had done more in 8 years than Gore had). You couple that, along with the recent spate of other scandals (Eli Gonzalez, Chinese Donors, etc) and it wasn't that hard of a choice. Gore needed the independent vote and there were still many independent voters (in states like Ohio and Florida) that had negative impressions of the morality of the Clintons.

Picking Joe Lieberman (a Clinton critic at the time) was another sign of "breaking free" from the past.

 

[thekad]

Since the HDF are so interested in why we "obamapologists" are voting Obama, I'll list out MY reasons so we don't have to go through the same HDF "fairy tale" bullshit in every political thread: 1) Hillary's belligirent foreign policy 2) Her position on censorship 3) Obama's health care plan 4) Hillary's catering to lobbyists 5) Hillary is divisive, despicable, and untrustworthy 6) fat ankles. So there are differences between the two no matter how much you claim there aren't.

 

[papelnabangka]

God, Edwards come off as a douchy fuck when he says he'll stay on even after losing so many times now. Especially in SC.

It would really help Obama if he drops out. What a greedy little fucker he is, clearly putting his own interest than the public's.

Mr. Edwards, I liked you, but please drop out now!

 

[miyamotofreak]

Obama/Edwards 08!

 

[APF]

As I've pointed-out many times, Obama's Pakistan comments, plus some of his major foreign policy and terrorism advisors, don't strike me as any less "belligerent" than Hillary by any means, and in fact make him arguably further to the "right" than actual, living, breathing Neoconservatives in some cases. You can argue this is all reactionary--and I'd largely agree with you--but that assertion doesn't cast him in any particularly good light. The evidence suggests Obama would be an awful foreign policy President.

 

[Tamanon]

God, Edwards come off as a douchy fuck when he says he'll stay on even after losing so many times now. Especially in SC.

It would really help Obama if he drops out. What a greedy little fucker he is, clearly putting his own interest than the public's.

Mr. Edwards, I liked you, but please drop out now!

As has already been discussed, Edwards staying in the race seems to actually be helping Obama. Plus, the longer he stays in, the more power he and his delegates have.

 

[Kusagari]

God, Edwards come off as a douchy fuck when he says he'll stay on even after losing so many times now. Especially in SC.

It would really help Obama if he drops out. What a greedy little fucker he is, clearly putting his own interest than the public's.

Mr. Edwards, I liked you, but please drop out now!

No it wouldn't. People need to stop saying this. The majority of Edwards voting base would go to Hillary as it's the unions that Obama has not gotten at all. Edwards is doing Obama a favor by staying in through Super Tuesday.

 

[Chichikov]

Also take note. Only 2 VP's have not been nominated by their party since Nixon in 1960. And they were Quayle and Cheney. Cheney never wanted to run and Quayle was considered one of the worst VP's in history. The VP slot is a VERY good stepping stone.

True, but as stated before, I believe whoever wins is going to be a one termer.
So we're have a sample size of two - Mondale and Quayle.
And being on a losing ticket is not great for your career, and maybe more importantly, it will nullify Obama greatest positive.

But this is all speculation.

 

[DEO3]

God, Edwards come off as a douchy fuck when he says he'll stay on even after losing so many times now. Especially in SC.

It would really help Obama if he drops out. What a greedy little fucker he is, clearly putting his own interest than the public's.

Mr. Edwards, I liked you, but please drop out now!

Couldn't disagree more. Him leaving the race would benefit Hillary much more than it would Obama. Stay strong Edwards, see you at the convention!

 

[thekad]

But didn't you agree with Obama's Pakistan comments(the other two candidates did) and disagree with Hillary's Iran comments, calling any act of aggression against Iran "stupid", or something to that effect. Where exactly do you stand, APF?

 

[Chichikov]

i doubt hillary would offer him the vp if she gets the nomination.

Hillary will do what she thinks help her ticket the most.
I suspect that person is Obama, but she's more informed than me.

 

[Tamanon]

But didn't you agree with Obama's Pakistan comments(the other two candidates did) and disagree with Hillary's Iran comments, calling any act of aggression against Iran "stupid", or something to that effect. Where exactly do you stand, APF?

That word implies stability of belief, I don't think it applies.

 

[APF]

Uh no I did not (agree with his Pakistan nonsense)

Also, in a statement very reminiscent of Obama's Pakistan comments, he's said if he's not satisfied with the video game industry's content policing, his administration will step in--a point which is pretty-much identical to any other pro videogame-"censorship" politician out there, except they've already come to the conclusion that the current policies aren't working.

Edit: Also I should note that someone was recently banned for making ad-hominem comments directed towards me, so you might want to keep it impersonal guys.

 

[Guileless]

The pardons really hurt Gore, as did Pres. Clinton's unwillingness to relinquish the stage and leadership of the party to him. And the Clintons focused the vast majority of their energy and fund-raising on Hillary's run for the Senate and not on Vice President Gore's race against Bush. In her book, Sally Bedell Smith argues that the Clintons and their core group held back support because they wanted Hillary to eventually succeed Clinton as the next Democrat in office.

 

[firex]

Hillary strikes me as a little more hawkish (which doesn't bother me as long as she's sound in her approach) and a lot more corporate and ruthless than Obama. The latter part I don't really like. Even if Obama's message/policies aren't that different from Hillary's, he's running a positive campaign without any smear ads, and at least says he's very anti-lobbyists/corporate donations. I'd probably be more informed about them aside from the big general picture they've painted for themselves, but it's pretty much impossible to find objective sources either way on any of the candidates.