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[Randall365]

I think the beginning of Bloodborne is actually pretty good at introducing you to the game. I thought OP was going to moan about Father Gascoigne as that made me quit the game for six months before going back and finishing it and the dlc.

I played Bloodborne first and then Dark Souls 1, 2, 3 in order. I think coming to Bloodborne from Dark Souls is probably a handicap in some ways, because the first part of BB teaches you two things:

1. This game will kill you unless you fight one thing at a time. In Dark Souls you can get away with handling two or three mobs at a time - often using your shield - not here.

2. There are areas which you cannot clear out when you first encounter them. Dark Souls was often an exercise in clearing out whole areas until you were the only one left standing. Whilst this will often not work in BB due to the level design - it is definitely a non-starter in this area, because you get no real benefit as you cannot level up.

This combination leads you to one outcome - you have to run through the first area, avoiding mobs and getting to the point where you open up the shortcut, face the boss and can start levelling.

Playing BB for the first time, I soon realised that scooting past these guys was the easiest thing to do - getting killed a fair bit, but getting considerably further each time. I remember trying the same thing in Undead Burg and realising that it was a different kettle of fish - slow and steady is the way in that game!

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Honestly, grinding out a few Blood Echoes in Yharnam Central and buying the full set of Yharnam Hunter Garb from the Bath Messengers will stand you in better stead than a dozen levels.

If you're struggling a bit, buy those first and dump the foreign clothes, also, buy a bundle of pebbles (they're very cheap) - an excellent way to lure out enemies one at a time. If you can clear that area around the bonfire and get around to the otherside of those doors and kill the troll you should have collected three Blood Stone Shards, which will be enough to level up you weapon.

These two things combined will make a big difference.

 

[Jindrael]

I really don't care if they would add an easy mode to the game but please make that an option, don't let it influence any of the design of the "normal" game and don't design for the easy mode. The reason why I'm vehemently against an approach like "lets add some more checkpoints" and stuff like"let us just respawn in front of the boss if we die" is because I honestly think, you actively hinder the learning factor and take the challenge from the game.
You learn through iteration if I could just get through one part once and be done with it I think you wouldn't actually get experience at the game, you might have just gotten lucky.

Saying "git gud" is just a stupid meme at this point but I still think in its essence it is true, as so many people already said before me the Souls series is not "hard", it is challenging, you die if you don't think, you die if you don't adapt but it is "almost" never unfair.

You can do all souls games without leveling, there are no-death runs and there are even no-hit runs, which clearly demonstrates just how good you can get at those games.
There are always more solutions to a problem.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Hey just popping in to lord on you and tell you I'm right

Hahaha.

I wasn't trying to be condescending by the way. When I first played it I approached the game like I would a Dark Souls game and it did not work at all. But once I unlearned it and leaned more into the way Bloodborne let's you play like being more aggressive and being able to dodge and dash all over the place with no real penalty I had a much easier time.


Threaded Cane is fucking boss. The most stylish weapon in that game. I used it a bunch before transferring into Reiterpallasch later in the game. Maybe I'll go the full game with it next play through.

Yeah I just wasn't sure what you meant and was wondering if I was missing something else, sorry haha. Yeah that seems to be my main issue. I love the look oif the cane but lot's of people told me to get the axe, so I'll probably go with that.

I think the beginning of Bloodborne is actually pretty good at introducing you to the game. I thought OP was going to moan about Father Gascoigne as that made me quit the game for six months before going back and finishing it and the dlc.

I played Bloodborne first and then Dark Souls 1, 2, 3 in order. I think coming to Bloodborne from Dark Souls is probably a handicap in some ways, because the first part of BB teaches you two things:

1. This game will kill you unless you fight one thing at a time. In Dark Souls you can get away with handling two or three mobs at a time - often using your shield - not here.

2. There are areas which you cannot clear out when you first encounter them. Dark Souls was often an exercise in clearing out whole areas until you were the only one left standing. Whilst this will often not work in BB due to the level design - it is definitely a non-starter in this area, because you get no real benefit as you cannot level up.

This combination leads you to one outcome - you have to run through the first area, avoiding mobs and getting to the point where you open up the shortcut, face the boss and can start levelling.

Playing BB for the first time, I soon realised that scooting past these guys was the easiest thing to do - getting killed a fair bit, but getting considerably further each time. I remember trying the same thing in Undead Burg and realising that it was a different kettle of fish - slow and steady is the way in that game!

I already dread that father everyone talks about,

1. Yeah I just wish throwing pebbles was more consistant for me. Seems like I'm the only one who has problems with that but I still pull several people even after throwing that stuff at the last of the bunch.

2. Yeah, that's one of the gripes I have with the design. This basically is combat: the game, and then it's serviceable to just ignore half the stuff until you can level up..(I know it's better to learn their patterns and parrying for later but the amount of people who say its better to just run trhough it in here is staggering lol.)

 

[darkslayer101]

1. This game will kill you unless you fight one thing at a time. In Dark Souls you can get away with handling two or three mobs at a time - often using your shield - not here.

This combination leads you to one outcome - you have to run through the first area, avoiding mobs and getting to the point where you open up the shortcut, face the boss and can start levelling.

Playing BB for the first time, I soon realised that scooting past these guys was the easiest thing to do - getting killed a fair bit, but getting considerably further each time. I remember trying the same thing in Undead Burg and realising that it was a different kettle of fish - slow and steady is the way in that game!

These pointers also apply to other souls games imo. In fact I think taking on mobs is easier in BB because of how fast the hunter can dash out of attacks. The running past enemies is an old adage in the soulsbourne games that I followed I soon as I figured out the boss.

I think BB's starter level design is rather refreshing from other Souls games. In all the other games, its slow and methodically while BB just overwhelms you, not just in difficulty but options and exploration

 

[ElFly]

which weapon are you using? surely not the cool as fuck cane/whip? that shit sucks

the big axe is way better. it has a charging attack that throws enemies off their feet, so you get a ton of crowd control out of it

easy mode

you do lose the use of your gun while two handing it, and you want to two hand it 99% of the time (when you face a boss that cannot be defeated two handing it, just switch to one hand and it will come down quickly), but honestly, not having to worry about using the gun and concentrating on the charge attack only makes the game easier

These pointers also apply to other souls games imo. In fact I think taking on mobs is easier in BB because of how fast the hunter can dash out of attacks. The running past enemies is an old adage in the soulsbourne games that I followed I soon as I figured out the boss.

I think BB's starter level design is rather refreshing from other Souls games. In all the other games, its slow and methodically while BB just overwhelms you, not just in difficulty but options and exploration

I think it is v similar to Demon, where Boletaria 1-1 is there to make you used to long levels with tons of enemies. but yeah, BB ups the enemy count a lot

 

[Theslammer]

I love the opening area, and I died so, so, so many times the first playthrough. I don't die as much on subsequent playthroughs -- not even close -- but that first time was, like... I never laughed so much at myself for dying so frequently.

I find the game gets easier not necessarily because the enemies are, but once you get used to its more fast-paced gameplay (specifically if you've played Souls games previous to this), you naturally "git gud."

 

[Roshin]

I really don't care if they would add an easy mode to the game but please make that an option, don't let it influence any of the design of the "normal" game and don't design for the easy mode.

I'm not sure what an "easy" mode would be, though.

Reading the complaints (I gave up after an hour, I gave up after 30 minutes, etc), it seems lacking patience is the bigger problem .

 

[Bloodporne]

I'd also recommend the Threaded Cane as you can keep your distance a little bit in its whip form.

What others have said is on point by the way. You have to get your head out of Souls combat and learn to play aggressively and offensively, that's the key to success. The two key factors to remember are that your stamina isn't nearly as affected by dodging and that "rally" lets you regain a small chunk of health for every hit you land within that time window after receiving damage.

Remember that even though some enemies may hit like trucks, they operate at maybe half your speed especially in the starting areas. They may be a mob, but their ranges are short and reaction time severely lacking compared to yours. Stick and move is definitely the way to go, try to stick to a hit or two then dodge until you're comfortable with their patterns and your windows. A tactic that always works well for me is to simply backstep to make them wiff a swing and hit R1 which triggers a forward-lunging counter attack. Unless they're using a particularly large weapon like the pitchfork maybe, a backstep gets you out of their range easy usually.

Also remember that parrying is easier, and seemingly much more encouraged, than in Souls games.

EDIT: I'd also like to throw out there that I'm surprised at how many people ran through the opening area regularly. I definitely avoided the werewolves most of the time, but the regular enemies definitely not, you'll need the practice. Also disagree with not taking on mobs, you just have to dance effectively but it's much easier to deal with crowds than in Souls in my opinion, especially with a weapon like the Cane.

 

[Stormhammer]

did anyone tell u 2 git gud yet op

its like the souls games & bloodborne games being criticized somehow invalidates peoples gaming prowess so to disrespect it is to disrespect their time and effort (or lack thereof because its 2 ez)

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Just reading the first page reminds me why the DS/BB community is just the worst. And I love the games.
The beginning of BB is just bad design, plain and simple. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it's good.

But it wasn't THAT hard. I didn't have those problems with it. So is it the game or the player?

 

[embalm]

@Wamb0wneD
I hope you're still reading posts and taking advice. You are right that the first portion is a gauntlet, but you're forgetting it's also a maze. It's a maze where the dead end is a group of sharpshooters and dogs.

That area with the guy banging on the door is one of the first BIG splits in first level. It's also one of the first places where the correct path is actually hidden by destructible terrain. Not knowing that there is a better path to take is the only mistake you are making. When you find this path you are going to smack yourself.

The souls games have always used overpowered enemies as a tool to direct the player to more managable spots. It's a great way to allow veteran players to go in new directions, while navigating the newbs to the intended path. In this case it's very obtuse and poorly thought out. Putting that split at the end of the gauntlet and hidding the alternate path is confusing.

When you get back onto the right path you will be fine. You are really, really close to the next lantern.

 

[Guevara]

One more voice into the wilderness but I agree that the start of BB was very off-putting. I'm not sure I even liked the game until well past Gascoigne.

 

[ElFly]

I'd also recommend the Threaded Cane as you can keep your distance a little bit in its whip form.

Also remember that parrying is easier, and seemingly much more encouraged, than in Souls games.

EDIT: I'd also like to throw out there that I'm surprised at how many people ran through the opening area regularly. I definitely avoided the werewolves most of the time, but the regular enemies definitely not, you'll need the practice. Also disagree with not taking on mobs, you just have to dance effectively but it's much easier to deal with crowds than in Souls in my opinion, especially with a weapon like the Cane.

the axe has better _vertical_ range, which is not useful on the starting area, but will come in handy against some bosses, where you can hit them when you are not "supposed" to

and the spin-to-win charged attack is much better for crowd control than the whip and does more damage. also makes parrying unnecessary

 

[Bloodporne]

the axe has better _vertical_ range, which is not useful on the starting area, but will come in handy against some bosses, where you can hit them when you are not "supposed" to

and the spin-to-win charged attack is much better for crowd control than the whip and does more damage

I'm not sure its vertical height is greater than the axe, but Forward + R2 jump attack in whip form was fantastic for Amygdala's head for example. Anyone know which one is 'officially' higher?

And yeah, Spin-To-Win charged R2 is really legit so you're right about that. I mainly went with Threaded Cane for the added The Real 3D Castlevania Starts Here.

 

[Brandon F]

Patience and motivation are the tools for success here.

It's not surprising one lashes out with finger pointing and tantrums at the absence of both.

 

[ElFly]

I'm not sure its vertical height is greater than the axe, but Forward + R2 jump attack in whip form was fantastic for

Spoiler

Amygdala's head

for example. Anyone know which one is 'officially' higher?

And yeah, Spin-To-Win charged R2 is really legit so you're right about that. I mainly went with Threaded Cane for the added The Real 3D Castlevania Starts Here.

ah, maybe the cane is also really tall and I am wrong there

I know I had given it up in favor of the sword (I think Ludwig's? or maybe the kirkhammer) by the time I reached

Spoiler

amygdala

in my first playthrough

but on my second one, the axe just served me the whole time

 

[Randall365]

Hahaha.



Yeah I just wasn't sure what you meant and was wondering if I was missing something else, sorry haha. Yeah that seems to be my main issue. I love the look oif the cane but lot's of people told me to get the axe, so I'll probably go with that.



I already dread that father everyone talks about,

1. Yeah I just wish throwing pebbles was more consistant for me. Seems like I'm the only one who has problems with that but I still pull several people even after throwing that stuff at the last of the bunch.

2. Yeah, that's one of the gripes I have with the design. This basically is combat: the game, and then it's serviceable to just ignore half the stuff until you can level up..(I know it's better to learn their patterns and parrying for later but the amount of people who say its better to just run trhough it in here is staggering lol.)

I have completed BB and the dlc, but even now, unless I am levelled up, that first area is impossible to clear out - you'll always get a pitchfork in the back. Once you have gone up some levels and improved your weapon, then you can go through it and clear it out. At this point you will be levelling so it feels much more fun.

I don't think the game is teaching you to go real slow, flushing out an enemy at a time and clearing things out - I think it is teaching you to use the faster mechanics to avoid trouble when you are blatantly out-manned.

There are plenty of areas later on where you have to run through them - it is quite different to Dark Souls 1 in that respect IMO.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

OP, i don't know if this is covered, but I am going to give you a big fucking tip that a lot of people don't know or fully understand.

In this game there is a thing called counter damage. If you attempt to hit something in this game and you miss or are in mid animation and get hit, you will take SO much more damage(this also works for the Player as well and there are gems for this too).

Also, as someone mentioned, do NOT panic dodge, or dodge over and over. The enemies in the game have a thing called "tracking" if you panic dodge they are more likely to get a hit off on you during one of your consecutive dodges. Because the AI is literally going to pinpoint where you land on one of your dodges and make a direct hit on you!

One of the best things to do is circle enemies, it screws with their tracking and makes dodging that much easier. Hell, circling enemies let me study their tracking and animations more. Circling enemies, they will eventually try to hit you and if you just keep moving they will hit the last spot you 'walked' on as you walk past that, they miss.

I hope this helps.

FWIW, I run BL4, even in FRC.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

Bloodborne's biggest weakness is it's difficulty curve in my opinion. It's really, really hard in the early game. By about halfway through it becomes a cakewalk except for the optional bosses. Even the final two bosses are very easy.

And then the DLC happened and it's got some of the most absurdly difficult fights ever.

The difficulty curve could absolutely use some smoothing over, tone it down a bit in the early parts of the game and then ramp it up more heavily in the 2nd half of the game.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I'd also recommend the Threaded Cane as you can keep your distance a little bit in its whip form.

What others have said is on point by the way. You have to get your head out of Souls combat and learn to play aggressively and offensively, that's the key to success. The two key factors to remember are that your stamina isn't nearly as affected by dodging and that "rally" lets you regain a small chunk of health for every hit you land within that time window after receiving damage.

Remember that even though some enemies may hit like trucks, they operate at maybe half your speed especially in the starting areas. They may be a mob, but their ranges are short and reaction time severely lacking compared to yours. Stick and move is definitely the way to go, try to stick to a hit or two then dodge until you're comfortable with their patterns and your windows. A tactic that always works well for me is to simply backstep to make them wiff a swing and hit R1 which triggers a forward-lunging counter attack. Unless they're using a particularly large weapon like the pitchfork maybe, a backstep gets you out of their range easy usually.

Also remember that parrying is easier, and seemingly much more encouraged, than in Souls games.

EDIT: I'd also like to throw out there that I'm surprised at how many people ran through the opening area regularly. I definitely avoided the werewolves most of the time, but the regular enemies definitely not, you'll need the practice. Also disagree with not taking on mobs, you just have to dance effectively but it's much easier to deal with crowds than in Souls in my opinion, especially with a weapon like the Cane.

The cane really looks the most fun, I'll decide between the axe and the cane when i get back home. Yeah I think I wasn't utilizing the dodge at all. I'm ok with parrying though its most only good for 1n1 situations in my experience since i cant get a visceral attack in there with some doggos chewing at me.

And yeah backstepping seems to be a good starting point, only problem is to not get cornered then.
When it comes to running through the stuff, I think i will try to beat them once, then unlock that fabled shortcut that let's me skip the corridor and then be done with it, no running required then!

did anyone tell u 2 git gud yet op

its like the souls games & bloodborne games being criticized somehow invalidates peoples gaming prowess so to disrespect it is to disrespect their time and effort (or lack thereof because its 2 ez)

Eh, I was kind of expecting it and it wasn't that bad. The only ones that are annoying are the people that act like there's no merit to the thread at all and that noone who beat the game is agreeing with me to some extent, trying to make this about my skill or lack thereof exclusively.

OP, i don't know if this is covered, but I am going to give you a big fucking tip that a lot of people don't know or fully understand.

In this game there is a thing called counter damage. If you attempt to hit something in this game and you miss or are in mid animation and get hit, you will take SO much more damage(this also works for the Player as well and there are gems for this too).

Also, as someone mentioned, do NOT panic dodge, or dodge over and over. The enemies in the game have a thing called "tracking" if you panic dodge they are more likely to get a hit off on you during one of your consecutive dodges. Because the AI is literally going to pinpoint where you land on one of your dodges and make a direct hit on you!

One of the best things to do is circle enemies, it screws with their tracking and makes dodging that much easier. Hell, circling enemies let me study their tracking and animations more. Circling enemies, they will eventually try to hit you and if you just keep moving they will hit the last spot you 'walked' on as you walk past that, they miss.

I hope this helps.

FWIW, I run BL4, even in FRC.

I already thought that getting hit mid animation hurts more, thought I was imagining things lol. The tracking thing is super helpful, thanks for that!

Yeah I already try to circle them in 1n1 situations when there's enough space. Sadly there aren't a lot of these situations at the start.

 

[Ralemont]

Patience and motivation are the tools for success here.

It's not surprising one lashes out with finger pointing and tantrums at the absence of both.

Considering the sheer amount of people in this thread who recommended running through the game to the first boss, I highly doubt patience is relevant here

And motivation is a solution for getting past anything, good or bad design. It doesn't tell us anything about the quality of Bloodborne's beginning

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Bloodborne's biggest weakness is it's difficulty curve in my opinion. It's really, really hard in the early game. By about halfway through it becomes a cakewalk except for the optional bosses. Even the final two bosses are very easy.

And then the DLC happened and it's got some of the most absurdly difficult fights ever.

The difficulty curve could absolutely use some smoothing over, tone it down a bit in the early parts of the game and then ramp it up more heavily in the 2nd half of the game.

Nightmare of Mensis is still a tough place and is late game. I've seen it kill speedruns from some of the best people playing the game. Also, more so if people don't use Blue Elixirs.

 

[silver.tongue]

Cant really say I agree with you OP. I found it to be just fine difficulty...

Edit: Also, maybe its just not for you? I dont like to go with the "git gud" aproach, but its not like a lot of ppl complain about bloodborne difficulty to begin with.

 

[sol740]

I adored the beginning of BB exactly because it was so brutal. This place is dangerous, the "people" hate outsiders and they hate me, the beasts roaming the streets are lethal, and I'm the new guy in town, weak, and unfamiliar with Yharnam. It should be scary, it should be brutal.

 

[Ratrat]

Considering the sheer amount of people in this thread who recommended running through the game to the first boss, I highly doubt patience is relevant here

And motivation is a solution for getting past anything, good or bad design. It doesn't tell us anything about the quality of Bloodborne's beginning

That just means the game isn't hard enough as people whine about. Clearly some people can brute force their way through things. It will be better in the long run to learn to parry early on, but its not forced.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I already thought that getting hit mid animation hurts more, thought I was imagining things lol. The tracking thing is super helpful, thanks for that!

Yeah I already try to circle them in 1n1 situations when there's enough space. Sadly there aren't a lot of these situations at the start.

You're starting to get it, then! You should give yourself AND the game some credit, man.
It took me about 2 to 3 hours to understand the game when I first played. I've played Demon's and Dark before this, but this is the first SoulsBorne game I have played, understood, beaten fully and platinumed.

I think once you get an even better grasp how to utilize the advice we're imparting to you, the more enjoyable the game will be and then this thread will be a misnomer.

 

[lantus]

Bloodborne early game is well known to be quite punishing. Just know it does get more manageable soon after. It's never a cakewalk, but you will be more equipped to handle things. Also, if you decide to stick with it, I pray for your fight against gasgoine lol.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Cant really say I agree with you OP. I found it to be just fine difficulty...

It's not really about the difficulty, i was expecting to die a lot, this is a Soulsgame after all. But the gating of leveling behind an item a new player has no clue even exists and where or when to get it and that starting corridor that get's tedious af when having to do it more than 5 times are just not good design imo.

When half of BB-GAF tells you to just run through everything until an optional boss you have no clue of existing in the first place or find an item that's hidden "somewhere" and it's easier to restart the gamefile from scratch after several deaths than pulling through, the design of the area is needlessly punishing for beginners.

DS was nothing like that. You had two ways to explore, one told you with big ass warning signs that it's not the way to go, with regenerating enemies that gave you hell and Undead Burg gave you a bonfire relatively early, after 10 or so scarcely placed enemies, not a huge ass corridor of 15+ people and more in it, and you could invest your souls at your leisure from the beginning.

 

[Bloodporne]

The cane really looks the most fun, I'll decide between the axe and the cane when i get back home. Yeah I think I wasn't utilizing the dodge at all. I'm ok with parrying though its most only good for 1n1 situations in my experience since i cant get a visceral attack in there with some doggos chewing at me.

And yeah backstepping seems to be a good starting point, only problem is to not get cornered then.
When it comes to running through the stuff, I think i will try to beat them once, then unlock that fabled shortcut that let's me skip the corridor and then be done with it, no running required then!

That's where running does come in handy, you can always disengage and sprint to a better vantage point. The enemy will come to you after all so you always have to make the fight on your terms. Funnel the mob up a staircase, things like that. They can't surround you if only two of them can fit next to each other on a staircase. Just using it as an example. You can use the environment to your advantage more so than in Souls games.

Also prioritizing your targets is very important. If you see fucking dogs, always take out the dogs first. They are much faster than regular enemies obviously so even if you aggro say a fat guy and two dogs, they'll reach you much quicker so lure them even farther away from dangerous fatso by backstepping maybe even twice or whatever and hitting them during their run for your face with a counter R1. By the time you hit them, fatso will probably be in your face, so dance around him or back up again to clear space again and so on.

Just throwing out some scenarios I recall from my own play style.

EDIT: Remember you can sneak more effectively here as well. You can avoid quite a few of the early mob scenarios by walking slowly here and there as to not gain their attention.

 

[Sayad]

It's more about how you approach the game at the start, slow and steady worked for the previous games but BB punishes you heavily for it. Most encounters at the start get way worse the more time you take with them.

 

[Spieler Eins]

I mean, my immediate reaction was to lure out each villager one by one, since it clearly didn't make any sense to tackle the whole dozen.

 

[ElFly]

It's not really about the difficulty, i was expecting to die a lot, this is a Soulsgame after all. But the gating of leveling behind an item a new player has no clue even exists and where or when to get it and that starting corridor that get's tedious af when having to do it more than 5 times are just not good design imo.

When half of BB-GAF tells you to just run through everything until an optional boss you have no clue of existing in the first place or find an item that's hidden "somewhere" and it's easier to restart the gamefile from scratch after several deaths than pulling through, the design of the area is needlessly punishing for beginners.

DS was nothing like that. You had two ways to explore, one told you with big ass warning signs that it's not the way to go, with regenerating enemies that gave you hell and Undead Burg gave you a bonfire relatively early, after 10 or so scarcely placed enemies, not a huge ass corridor of 15+ people and more in it, and you could invest your souls at your leisure from the beginning.

well to be fair, DS starting area was actually the asylum, and you did have to beat a boss to get out of there

but it was relatively easy so nobody remembers it

 

[Jimnymebob]

I already dread that father everyone talks about,

Don't worry about him. He's really easy; the main thing that'l screw you over is that there's a lot of things you can get stuck on when trying to back away, but you can break them/they'll break during the fight anyway. As long as you learn to riposte, so shoot while they're in the middle of an attack.

The cane really looks the most fun, I'll decide between the axe and the cane when i get back home.

Cane is really good. It's whip form is the best to use during the main game, but the sword form works better in DLC. The big problem is that if you make a build around skill weapons like the cane, it's a while before you get a weapon that benefits from such a build if you want to swap.

 

[myco666]

It's not really about the difficulty, i was expecting to die a lot, this is a Soulsgame after all. But the gating of leveling behind an item a new player has no clue even exists and where or when to get it and that starting corridor that get's tedious af when having to do it more than 5 times are just not good design imo.

When half of BB-GAF tells you to just run through everything until an optional boss you have no clue of existing in the first place or find an item that's hidden "somewhere" and it's easier to restart the gamefile from scratch after several deaths than pulling through, the design of the area is needlessly punishing for beginners.

DS was nothing like that. You had two ways to explore, one told you with big ass warning signs that it's not the way to go, with regenerating enemies that gave you hell and Undead Burg gave you a bonfire relatively early, after 10 or so scarcely placed enemies, not a huge ass corridor of 15+ people and more in it.

Why it is a bad design? Demon's Souls doesn't let you level until you beat 1-1, Dark Souls 1 doesn't let you level until you get to Firelink and Dark Souls 3 doesn't let you level until you beat Gundyr. Are those bad designs too?

 

[Bloodporne]

well to be fair, DS starting area was actually the asylum, and you did have to beat a boss to get out of there

but it was relatively easy so nobody remembers it

My first reaction to Dark Souls' Asylum Demon was basically OP's reaction to Bloodborne as far as I recall haha

 

[Wamb0wneD]

You're starting to get it, then! You should give yourself AND the game some credit, man.
It took me about 2 to 3 hours to understand the game when I first played. I've played Demon's and Dark before this, but this is the first SoulsBorne game I have played, understood, beaten fully and platinumed.

I think once you get an even better grasp how to utilize the advice we're imparting to you, the more enjoyable the game will be and then this thread will be a misnomer.

Haha I'll start giving myself credit when I beat one or two bosses. I really like what the game is promising in terms of combat, leveldesign and atmosphere, the start is just offputting to me.

That's where running does come in handy, you can always disengage and sprint to a better vantage point. The enemy will come to you after all so you always have to make the fight on your terms. Funnel the mob up a staircase, things like that. They can't surround you if only two of them can fit next to each other on a staircase. Just using it as an example. You can use the environment to your advantage more so than in Souls games.

Also prioritizing your targets is very important. If you see fucking dogs, always take out the dogs first. They are much faster than regular enemies obviously so even if you aggro say a fat guy and two dogs, they'll reach you much quicker so lure them even farther away from dangerous fatso by backstepping maybe even twice or whatever and hitting them during their run for your face with a counter R1. By the time you hit them, fatso will probably be in your face, so dance around him or back up again to clear space again and so on.

Just throwing out some scenarios I recall from my own play style.

EDIT: Remember you can sneak more effectively here as well. You can avoid quite a few of the early mob scenarios by walking slowly here and there as to not gain their attention.

Yeah I learned to focus fast assholes first in DS. I'm just not used to being so quick on my feet with the low stamina consumption and faster dodges.

 

[Randall365]

It's not really about the difficulty, i was expecting to die a lot, this is a Soulsgame after all. But the gating of leveling behind an item a new player has no clue even exists and where or when to get it and that starting corridor that get's tedious af when having to do it more than 5 times are just not good design imo.

When half of BB-GAF tells you to just run through everything until an optional boss you have no clue of existing in the first place or find an item that's hidden "somewhere" and it's easier to restart the gamefile from scratch after several deaths than pulling through, the design of the area is needlessly punishing for beginners.

DS was nothing like that. You had two ways to explore, one told you with big ass warning signs that it's not the way to go, with regenerating enemies that gave you hell and Undead Burg gave you a bonfire relatively early, after 10 or so scarcely placed enemies, not a huge ass corridor of 15+ people and more in it, and you could invest your souls at your leisure from the beginning.

That's the thing with Dark Souls through - you go one enemy at a time early on, shield up, dealing with every encounter and estus flasking whenever you take damage.

That first area in Bloodborne is basically From's way of saying that you are not in Kansas anymore.

Even if you do git good and painstakingly clear out that first area, you will have used all your blood vials, which you then have to work at to get back. I still maintain that it is teaching you to pick your battles. I always tried to take down the guys at the bottom of the first steps and then ran through the larger area, before slowing down again to take on the guys on the way to the boss run. It is notable that nobody follows you from the larger area - I think the game is teaching you something here. In Dark Souls you would have a skeleton party on your tail.

 

[Wadiwasi]

Look at everything up to the first boss (it is even optional)....as one big tutorial.

You get clumps of enemies, shooters, various big guys, dogs, werewolves and crows. Take your time to learn your character and the behavior and patterns of the enemies in this area. Learn to gun-parry/riposte, almost everything can be parried with your gun and while doing the follow up attack you will be invulnerable. Every weapon has combos based on the short and extended versions and you can chain them together.

Take time to learn dodges, weapon combos, and parrying. There are lots of shooter guys in the first area for bullets.

You can run past sections that you do not want to be bothered with. You may choose to do that at some points of the game if you've cleared the first part of an area 25 times and keep dying at a boss or area.

I usually tell people to be patient and the game will open up after the 'Father' Boss. He is a real challenge to a lot of new players. Also do not play it like board and sword Souls games. The game lets you heal if you attack after getting hit by something.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I get your point and I do agree. It took me a while to get used to the new system in Bloodborne. Coming from Dark Souls, Bloodborne was quite a different game.

But these remarks are just different. What's wrong with being good at Dark Souls by choosing a legit playstyle provided by the game? Also, blocking still consume your stamina anyway so it's not that different with dodging. There's also many other examples such as the summoning topic. This elitist culture is why I hesitate to engage with the Souls community.

Meh, you always have a few people who think their preferred playstyle (no shield melee only) is the only one and true way to play, but I always ignore it.

I prefer melee myself, but magic (utility or otherwise), bows, thrown items, shields, all are fair game to help you overcome the odds.

I think the point that was being made here is (hopefully) not that playing Souls games with a shield means you are a bad Souls player, it just means that it might hinder you in Bloodborne since it can't work anymore.

Perhaps this is more your speed op.

This image will never not be funny. But I am getting alarmed that for the first time that I can see, some people are actually defending what it represents. Ick.

Can we please stop extrapolating new players' thoughs on the beginning of the game not guiding new players well enough so that they don't feel fustrated and/or confused, into that annoying git gud/"the beginning of the game is problematic because the Souls games are supposed to be harsh" mentality? I see that mocking picture with all those HUD elements and hints to where to go making the rounds a lot, but that doesn't solve my problems with the first hours of the game. I'm not asking for the game to tell me where to go or what to do, I'm asking for the game to explain its systems and to introduce me into how the mechanics work.

But it already does that. It tells you everything you need to know in the tutorial area, except for Insight which isn't that essential to know about anyway.

Maybe it's time to accept that some of the complains about the first level are actually legitimate instead of you know, making it seem as if everyone who got a problem with it is a dummy who needs Skyward Sword's levels of hand holding, idk. Like I said, I loved the game, it was my first Souls game and I will play the rest of the franchise in the future, but Bloodborne's first level makes it hard for a newcomer to dive into the game by itself (that is, without asking on a forum for advice, looking up FAQ's on how to play Souls games and stuff like that).

*shrugs* I started with Demon's Souls, no FAQs no forum advice no nothing and it had way more obtuse mechanics than Bloodborne, which is incredibly streamlined. Honestly I wouldn't want Bloodborne to be more streamlined than it already is, I think it reached the limit before it starts veering into hand-holding territory. So, no thanks, keep those games pure, thanks.

The worst part of these games is the checkpoint locations and it's more egregious in the first area. It's ridiculously tedious. Bad, bad design.

Nah. It's ridiculously fun and engrossing and awesome and amazing design. Central Yharnam is one of the greatest opening level of any video game I've ever played. Maybe the greatest, or tied with Boletarian Palace 1-1.

Yeah but the shortcuts are so hidden and most importantly, everything of importance so far away from the lantern that you're gonna lose a lot of time going to the same places the first time you play the game.

People are really underestimating OP's concerns as a first time Bloodborne player.

You only have to dig up the OT and see how many of the git gud guys were about to cry at launch. Yes you know the game by now, but don't expect every guy to know the super hidden shortcut is /just about There/.

People are gonna lose progress, and people are gonna have to backtrack for hours, and it's honestly not worth it.

I just wish the checkpoint placement was better, that's it.

To you, maybe not. For many of us, it's what helps make the games great. Finding a hidden shortcut is always an amazing lightbulb (or sometimes a "oh thank you sweet Jesus!", even) moment. The fact that the next lantern or shortcut is so far away is the whole point of the challenge, to be able to proceed with the dread of the next danger lurking around, with perhaps your resources dwindling and your stakes (blood echoes/souls) rising. Just putting up more bonfires out there would ruin this delicate balance and remove the sense of risk.

Forbidden Woods is a great example. Huge level, possibly the largest, and only 1 lantern, but there's several shortcuts, 2 of which loop back to the first lamp, and it's an extremely rewarding sense of relief when you find them. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Some souls fans are so sensitive, they make me laugh.

Souls fans love those games for various reasons, but a common one is the challenge, lack of hand-holding, and rewarding sense of exploration and triumph over adversity. So, seeing people saying "this is terrible and it should change" will certainly make us frown, yes. That's not being "so sensitive" any more than saying "wah I die a lot this game sucks and is badly designed please change it" is.

This.

Also what instructions it does give you, in the form of the little sick patches on the floor, is such a shit way "teaching" the player.

Why? I think it's perfect. It tells you the basics, but doesn't hold your hand, and its optional granularity means you can skip any step you want and play at your own pace.

Just reading the first page reminds me why the DS/BB community is just the worst. And I love the games.
The beginning of BB is just bad design, plain and simple. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it's good.

Posts like these remind me why the DS/BB community is great, and outsiders who want to shit on us and our favourite games are "just the worst".

The beginning of BB is a beautiful, intricate, atmospheric, engrossing and tightly designed level and carefully balanced so that it is challenging for a newcomer and almost easy for a veteran (but never to the point where there's no more danger, as one moment of overconfidence or fuck-up can still get even the best player killed). That so many people shit on Central Yharnam level-design wise honestly boggle my mind. I can't think of many better opening levels in a game. And just because something isn't easy for you, doesn't mean it's "bad, plain and simple".

 

[ElFly]

My first reaction to Dark Souls' Asylum Demon was basically OP's reaction to Bloodborne as far as I recall haha

it was p hard at first, but my experience with Demon helped me

honestly, the opening levels in difficulty go, from easier to hardest:

-Dark 2. Just get to Majula! just don't attack the giant monsters and that's all
-Dark 1. the area itself is easy, but the boss can get tricky if this is your first souls game
-Demon. It's a loooong area, you are mostly trying to open shortcuts, tho so you can try to out run everything. the Boss itself is one of the easiest in the series
-Bloodborne. No boss to fight, but the initial area is the hardest one of them all
-Dark 3. easy starting area. But fucking hard boss what the fuck I've played all these games how can I still be losing to this

 

[Oni Jazar]

Considering the sheer amount of people in this thread who recommended running through the game to the first boss, I highly doubt patience is relevant here

And motivation is a solution for getting past anything, good or bad design. It doesn't tell us anything about the quality of Bloodborne's beginning

Running away is horrible advice for a beginner. You're not going to learn anything if you can't even get past grunts.

The game means to teach you a painful lesson. Learn from it.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I mean, my immediate reaction was to lure out each villager one by one, since it clearly didn't make any sense to tackle the whole dozen.

That's what I did and I wasn't talking about the mob at the bonfire but the one after that at the well where I didn't manage to pull them one after another once. As soon I pull one 3 others follow.

well to be fair, DS starting area was actually the asylum, and you did have to beat a boss to get out of there

but it was relatively easy so nobody remembers it

Well yeah, I mean that boss only had half hp when the fight starts.

Don't worry about him. He's really easy; the main thing that'l screw you over is that there's a lot of things you can get stuck on when trying to back away, but you can break them/they'll break during the fight anyway. As long as you learn to riposte, so shoot while they're in the middle of an attack.

Yeah already read parrying is key in that fight. Will probably take a hile until i manage to read his stuff accurately but that's part of the fun.

Cane is really good. It's whip form is the best to use during the main game, but the sword form works better in DLC. The big problem is that if you make a build around skill weapons like the cane, it's a while before you get a weapon that benefits from such a build if you want to swap.

That thing looks so cool I wouldn't mind using it for a while lol. So it takes a while to get another skill based weapon, got you.

Why it is a bad design? Demon's Souls doesn't let you level until you beat 1-1, Dark Souls 1 doesn't let you level until you get to Firelink and Dark Souls 3 doesn't let you level until you beat Gundyr. Are those bad designs too?

I only played Dark Souls 1 and the Asylum Demon is one challenge that you can access easily after dying, retrying him doesn't take up much time at all, like, 10 seconds, excluding loading times. not to mention he only has half hp from the start when you take your time to read. I would take 3 Asylum Demons instead of that 15+ enemies corridor in BB.

 

[adversarial]

I hated Souls before playing Bloodborne. The first area had me scratching my head but I fell in love.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It's not really about the difficulty, i was expecting to die a lot, this is a Soulsgame after all. But the gating of leveling behind an item a new player has no clue even exists and where or when to get it and that starting corridor that get's tedious af when having to do it more than 5 times are just not good design imo.

There is nothing inherently bad about this design.

Demon's Souls, after the short tutorial area, starts you at HALF HEALTH for an entire level (one that's about roughly as long as Central Yharnam -- you do get a ring in that level that puts your health back up to 75% at the most but that's it), and forces you to beat the first boss before levelling up -- unlike Bloodborne which only forces you to have 1 insight you can either just view the first boss, or consume 1 Madman's Knowledge (2 of which are found in the starting level).

Demon's Souls's first level also has deathtraps that no beginner will ever not die of, should they choose to try their luck: the red-eyed knight in that one corridor, and the dragon's nest. If, like me, you got the game for Christmas during a Pure White World Tendency event (which I had no idea of at the time nor did I even know anything about World Tendency because, talk about obtuse systems, nothing beats that lol), you wouldn't have the dragons in that nest but you'd have that one side-area (normally closed in regular WT, open in PWWT) with tons of black phantom mobs + a really tough NPC enemy that would kill you over and over.

Instead of whining "I keep dying, this is bad design!!", I sucked it up, ran to my bloodstain and ran the hell away and decided to come tackle Executioner Miralda (and the red-eyed knight) later when I'd git gud. I didn't think Boletarian Palace was badly designed at all, I thought it was genius.

When half of BB-GAF tells you to just run through everything until an optional boss you have no clue of existing in the first place or find an item that's hidden "somewhere" and it's easier to restart the gamefile from scratch after several deaths than pulling through, the design of the area is needlessly punishing for beginners.

Honestly a lot of this is just bad advice, but no, the area isn't needlessly punishing. Because you don't need to do any of what people tell you, they're just suggestions for someone that's really struggling.

DS was nothing like that. You had two ways to explore, one told you with big ass warning signs that it's not the way to go, with regenerating enemies that gave you hell and Undead Burg gave you a bonfire relatively early, after 10 or so scarcely placed enemies, not a huge ass corridor of 15+ people and more in it, and you could invest your souls at your leisure from the beginning.

Actually there was also New Londo Ruins. And if you had the Master Key, there was Valley of Drakes + Blighttown.

Funnily enough tons of people complained about the beginning of Dark Souls, did you know that? How "badly designed" is this game that doesn't tell you where to go and can lure you into places where you're sure to die the first time?? How was I supposed to know I wasn't meant to be fighting those skeletons? I mean I didn't know it wasn't the right way, everyone said "this game is hard" so I thought this was normal! That stairs leading up to the Undead Burg is kind of hidden and not that visible right away, I had no idea I was supposed to go there! This game is so badly designed! (Real arguments people have made, btw)

 

[RumbleHumble]

I'm generally the type to recommend you play BB/DS in whatever way you can that gets you through it, but I highly discourage running all the way to the first boss. It's a long, hard, grueling battle at first, but BB is all about combat and that opening is meant to help you understand how to succeed. There's no way to build yourself out of understanding the basics of the combat system.

That all being said, if you can't get into the combat system, you can't get into the combat system. No one game will work for everyone, and that's totally fine.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Perhaps this is more your speed op.

*prints picture, puts it on a rocket* Trajectory: The Sun

 

[Bloodporne]

I'm generally the type to recommend you play BB/DS in whatever way you can that gets you through it, but I highly discourage running all the way to the first boss. It's a long, hard, grueling battle at first, but BB is all about combat and that opening is meant to help you understand how to succeed. There's no way to build yourself out of understanding the basics of the combat system.

That all being said, if you can't get into the combat system, you can't get into the combat system. No one game will work for everyone, and that's totally fine.

This. I already said it in one of my posts earlier, but I'm increasingly baffled by all the suggestions of sprinting through the level. As tough as it may be, you have to take whatever lessons you can from the initial area to even try to fuck with basically any boss in the game.

And Father G is no joke. I really don't see how he can be considered really easy especially for someone on their first run and struggling a bit.

 

[Melchiah]

Already been covered - It's not the boss, it's insight. You can pick it up as loot in the area, or even just from seeing the first boss, you could die it, it doesn't matter.

Or use (Bold) Hunter's Mark to transport away from the boss fight.

Honestly, grinding out a few Blood Echoes in Yharnam Central and buying the full set of Yharnam Hunter Garb from the Bath Messengers will stand you in better stead than a dozen levels.

Or find the Hunter set in

Spoiler

the sewers.

To my recollection it has slightly better stats than the one you can buy.

I think it's better to use the Blood Echoes to stack up on Blood Vials (and molotovs) in the beginning instead of levelling up, and collect all the Blood Stone Shards to level up the weapon. You can find eight of them in the first area, which raise your weapon level twice.

I'm just saying, if the first are of the game was more like the later parts, people would not get frustrated. The second area is much better designed and more comfortable to play in, just as challenging, but less tedious. And I blame the bonfires.

Personally, I found Central Yharnam more interesting area to play due to its branching paths. The second area (if you go to the optional one like I did) can be more frustrating due to the

Spoiler

shooter in the tower

. A friend of mine quitted the game there, as he couldn't beat the boss

Spoiler

Blood-starved Beast

, eventhough it could be skipped entirely.

 

[DeathbyCheerios]

I will start with explaining myself to avoid the rampant "git guds".

I enjoy difficulty in games, I enjoy a challenge. I even enjoy getting my ass kicked as it makes me better.

But something about the start of Bloodborne was just...too much. I know lots of people got thru it and pushed thru but I don't know it felt a little too frustrating. Especially having watched people play and how it gets so much easier past the beginning honestly makes it feel like that part is more bad design than anything. The rest of the game looks phenomenal but I do not think the beginning of the game should be the most frustrating or hardest.

To me the beginning of the game should grab a player, teach them the systems and send them off. Dark Souls 1 I had no issues getting to the first boss, got my ass kicked a few times but I managed to get passed it, then the difficulty started to creep up.

With Bloodborne the beginning section just constantly kicks your ass if you do not know exactly where to go, where every baddie is. I feel like with a different opening I would of really enjoyed Bloodborne but I couldn't push myself past it, it wasn't enjoyable.

Now I know I will get "you are wrong u just bad" comments but I am expecting those. I am in NO way hating on this game, From Software or people who enjoyed it. I just think the beginning was badly done and put a lot of people off.