Focusing on the US(MS) vs focusing on global appeal (Sony).
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The success of Xbox One won't ride on Gears of War and Halo- it's all about new IP
- Thread starter SOR5
- Start date
This thread is full of lols, mental gymnastics, spin and falsehoods.
Bloodborne IS a new IP. Period.
TLOU is NOT a current gen game. Period.
Sony absolutely has more and more diverse exclusives. Period.
To say either console has "better" exclusives is 100% opinion and individual gamers tastes.
And unless Stinkles flat-out lied to us and I have no reason to believe he did, Splatoon did NOT outsell Halo 5.
OT:
I do believe MS has tried this gen in building new IPs but none have been homeruns. This is what continues to feed the completely erroneous "Halo/Forza/Gears lol" mantra that is spouted by the Sony/Anti-MS groups
This coupled with MS doing whatever they could to fuck up the XB1 launch is in-point.
Bloodborne IS a new IP. Period.
TLOU is NOT a current gen game. Period.
Sony absolutely has more and more diverse exclusives. Period.
To say either console has "better" exclusives is 100% opinion and individual gamers tastes.
And unless Stinkles flat-out lied to us and I have no reason to believe he did, Splatoon did NOT outsell Halo 5.
OT:
I do believe MS has tried this gen in building new IPs but none have been homeruns. This is what continues to feed the completely erroneous "Halo/Forza/Gears lol" mantra that is spouted by the Sony/Anti-MS groups
This coupled with MS doing whatever they could to fuck up the XB1 launch is in-point.
funkystudent
Member
IMO the best possible thing Microsoft could do is let one of its marquee franchise factory studios make a completely new IP.
Imagine if 343 got a chance to make something not Halo. Or Turn 10 branched out from Forza. The Coalition actually getting to make that new IP instead of being turned into the Gears of War factory.
Having a "The Last of Us" moment where one of the mega franchise studios gets to branch out would be the coolest thing.
MS can still fund new IP through 2nd party like they have but it would be amazing to see them take that in house at one of the big studios for a change and really get behind something. Black Tusk was probably meant to be that before Phil decided otherwise which like I said before was just a shame.
Never been a fan of locking a studio to 1 franchise for life. Its not a MS only issue for sure but they are the most guilty of it
Imagine if 343 got a chance to make something not Halo. Or Turn 10 branched out from Forza. The Coalition actually getting to make that new IP instead of being turned into the Gears of War factory.
Having a "The Last of Us" moment where one of the mega franchise studios gets to branch out would be the coolest thing.
MS can still fund new IP through 2nd party like they have but it would be amazing to see them take that in house at one of the big studios for a change and really get behind something. Black Tusk was probably meant to be that before Phil decided otherwise which like I said before was just a shame.
Never been a fan of locking a studio to 1 franchise for life. Its not a MS only issue for sure but they are the most guilty of it
No offense, but it sounds like a bunch of armchair analysis nonsense again.
People need to stop making extravagant claims extrapolated from personal observations and preferences in their little bubble.
Thinking games like Scalebound, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, ReCore; Sea of Thieves are a bigger factor for commercial success Xbox One than either Halo or Gears of War are delusional. I think Sea of Thieves will be a decent commercially succesful game though. Scalebound? Not so much honestly. (and this is seperate from the overal 'quality' of the game of course)
But regardless, it's good to invest in new IP, there's always a chance it can become a big franchise. But games like Scalebound, Recore and Quantum Break I think are by design nut really appealing to a large audience, and thus not of high relevance for the commercial success of XB1.
People need to stop making extravagant claims extrapolated from personal observations and preferences in their little bubble.
Thinking games like Scalebound, Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, ReCore; Sea of Thieves are a bigger factor for commercial success Xbox One than either Halo or Gears of War are delusional. I think Sea of Thieves will be a decent commercially succesful game though. Scalebound? Not so much honestly. (and this is seperate from the overal 'quality' of the game of course)
But regardless, it's good to invest in new IP, there's always a chance it can become a big franchise. But games like Scalebound, Recore and Quantum Break I think are by design nut really appealing to a large audience, and thus not of high relevance for the commercial success of XB1.
LukasTaves
Member
And this isn't even the full list:
D4
Kalimba
Lococycle
Scream ride
Max and the magic marker (ok not a new ip but went from being a clumsy ios game to a great controlling platform)
Crimson Dragon
Below (initially it would be published by them)
And I'm sure I'm forgetting a few others.
Their output thus far has been incredibly diverse, it's a shame they didn't met the deserved commercial success.
LiquidSolid
Member
Below was only initially published by Microsoft because of their archaic old indie policies, it was never a real first party title, just a timed exclusive like Inside and Capy's last game, Super Time Force.
My problem with how MS handles new IP compared to Sony, is that MS never gives them time to cultivate.
The throw massive marketing behind a new IP, and I get the impression that if the game doesnt sell gangbusters, they will never make another one.
Theres a lot of Sony games that had OK starts (this is all subjective of course)
Uncharted
Killzone
Infamous
Resistance
Motorstorm
And they pushed forward with all of these to create, I believe, superior follow up games. I wish MS would have more faith like this.
Alan Wake
Lost Odyssey
Crimson Skies (not technically a debut on Xbox)
Sunset Overdrive (maybe sometime)
Ryse
Just some off the top of my head which I believe could have made really superior sequals
The throw massive marketing behind a new IP, and I get the impression that if the game doesnt sell gangbusters, they will never make another one.
Theres a lot of Sony games that had OK starts (this is all subjective of course)
Uncharted
Killzone
Infamous
Resistance
Motorstorm
And they pushed forward with all of these to create, I believe, superior follow up games. I wish MS would have more faith like this.
Alan Wake
Lost Odyssey
Crimson Skies (not technically a debut on Xbox)
Sunset Overdrive (maybe sometime)
Ryse
Just some off the top of my head which I believe could have made really superior sequals
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Max Curse of Brotherhood
Kalimba
Lococycle
D4
Powerstar Golf
Project Spark
Screamride
Rebooting KI, Crimson Dragon and Zoo Tycoon probably don't technically count but it's good to see them revisited.
Definitely trying...just not seeing much success
ethomaz
Banned
Outside GAF do you really thinks NMS image is that damaged???
I read the same about Destiny at launch (or even worst) and Destiny 2 has a serious chance to hit CoD numbers.
NMS is still selling you know.
I know that PvP was not that well received, but I really enjoyed Horde 3.0 from what I've played, maybe will be the flagship mp Gears mode for 4
That'd be fine if you weren't trying to make nms seem like it isn't successful by saying the saying the next game hello games make won't be popular because gaf has you thinking some kind of way.
Which is made more weird by the fact their current game is still selling despite the storm.
@prime
Another moving of the posts. The systems haven't been out long enough for that not to be the case about almost every exclusive released for both ps and micro.
Most of the games that are being listed were in development before the Xbox One came out. If you made a list of new IP and second party games announced in 2015 and 2016 it would not make for good reading.
It's too bad that a lot of these games were victims of Xbox One's terrible first year. We need D4 season two!
It's too bad that a lot of these games were victims of Xbox One's terrible first year. We need D4 season two!
BleedOrange
Banned
I could say that ~you're wrong~ but it wouldn't matter anyways. We both know this is a matter of opinion. Sea of Thieves looks far more interesting and fun to me than any Sony first party IP this gen.
power was only one factor out of many that caused ps4 to run away with it. If xbox one was more powerful and everything else was as it happened they would still have lost this gen.
30yearsofhurt
Member
How come no-one has mentioned TV, sports or cooling water?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I think Halo continues to be an amazing franchise, so it will definitely continue to be a crucial part of any kind of success that Xbox hopes to achieve. Halo 5 was probably easily my favorite Halo title by far The only thing I could possibly hope to have more of is more Master Chief and Blue Team. And so, if only for that reason, Halo 4 might hold a special place for me as far as favorite Halo games is concerned. Make no mistake, though, Halo 5 is the superior overall game.
daTRUballin
Member
Probably because it's not 2013 anymore? Lol
There seems to be quite a lot of revisionism going on in this thread in regards to Sony and Microsoft's exclusive output this generation. The sad truth is that Microsoft has had an incredibly poor record when it comes to the quality of all of their exclusive games. Take Forza and Ori out of the picture, and their output has in practically every case failed to find either critical acclaim or commercial success, and in several cases it has failed to find either. Microsoft cannot really be criticised for producing new IP this generation, but it can be criticised for almost every aspect of how they have handled those games, and it's for that reason that they have a practical cemetary of new IPs that are unlikely to ever see sequels. Worst of all, I don't see people clamouring for sequels to any of them.
Sea of Thieves looks like it will break the streak, but only because they've paired the right developer with time, money, and freedom.
Sea of Thieves looks like it will break the streak, but only because they've paired the right developer with time, money, and freedom.
Humdinger
Member
Microsoft is going to have to come out with a more diverse lineup, in order to win me back as a gamer. The Halo, Forza, Gears routine is what drove me away 2/3 through the 360's lifecycle. It was stale. They've done better this gen -- they've tried at least, although most of their efforts have flopped.
I need them to open up beyond the US/UK crowd they cater to. I need them to include more of the weird, creative, unique, and often Japanese games that you see on the Playstation. Games like Persona, Nier, Gravity Rush, TLG, Yakuza. They need to match Sony on the indie front, too.
I need them to open up beyond the US/UK crowd they cater to. I need them to include more of the weird, creative, unique, and often Japanese games that you see on the Playstation. Games like Persona, Nier, Gravity Rush, TLG, Yakuza. They need to match Sony on the indie front, too.
Memorabilia
Member
Lol What? This kind of doomsday bullshit always makes me laugh. Relative to the PS4, sure the Xbone is "losing" this gen. But, relative to the 360 - still considered a wild success by any measure - the Xbone is actually still selling faster to this point. The PS4 is a historical sales phenomenon which is outselling the GOAT PS2. Just because the Xbone isn't keeping pace with the PS4 doesn't make it a "failure". Both systems are selling very well. The game has evolved and now it's more about maintaining the XBL/PSN ecosystems to rake in those sub dollars. Both systems and ecosystems are doing just fine.
Edit: As to the OP, I'm thinking these older IPs are still really important to the wider market. But on a personal level I'd agree for the most part. I do look forward to every new Halo. But Gears 4 looks boring to me so far. And I never bother with Forza until months/years after release. I just started the first Forza Horizon on BC. I'm having lots of fun with it so far, but I'd never pay $60 for the next iteration (similar to how I only pick up the latest Madden because of Best Buy trade in promos or when it drops to half price).
In contrast, I'm really looking forward to some of the new IPs. Sea of Thieves looks like a lot of fun. Scalebound looks mixed, but I don't think they've shown it in the best light so far.
Eh, I honestly don't think there's anything MS can do to increase the success of the Xbox brand. The only reason they competed with Sony last gen is because they beat Sony to the punch and even after it launched PS3 took a really long time to hit its stride because of high price and few exclusive games. Sony just has too much worldwide brand loyalty for Xbox to really make a dent no matter what they do. That's not to say they can't be profitable in a distant second though.
I say bite the bullet and let their top teams work on new AAA IP's in addition to the established stuff. No one can deny that 343i, Turn 10, Rare, etc. are talented. I just take issue with the fact that (sans Rare) they are all stuck on the same IP's. First party should lead the charge, not second party. And hell, extended time between entries of established franchises can drum up hunger and interest for them to return.
Movalpolos
Banned
Recore isnt giving me much hope.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I reckon at this point Microsoft really only cares about the US and the UK with Australia being a distant third. They can get back those three in time but that's it. The rest of the world doesn't care.
Sony would REALLY have to fuck up hard for MS to gain any kind of foothold in Europe. Or, Microsoft would have to pay for FIFA exclusivity (which won't happen).
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Microsoft much like Nintendo in my eyes are between a rock and hard place in a way. Sure, Microsoft have tried to diversify their line-up and surely do not want to be known as the Halo/Gears/Forza/Netflix box, but do gamers even want new IP's in all honesty? Gamers buy systems for familiar franchises and sequels to already popular games, not new IP's. Unfortunately, statistics point to no and it has been this way for awhile. Seems like Microsoft gamers are almost as closed minded as Nintendo gamers when it comes to new, unfamiliar territory and franchises. I am not saying Sony gamers are always embracing new IP's or anything, but it seems like Microsoft gamers do not give new IP's chances no matter how positive the feedback is. Then I also blame Microsoft for not giving their new franchises more than one chance. Sunset Overdrive under-delivered. Oh well, no sequel for you. It failed because it was too colorful!!! Ryse? Kill it!!!! Quantum Break underperformed? Screw it. No sequel, let's move on to another Forza game. Strangers of Sword City? Heh......well. D4? What's that? That came out on XBox One? Also, I still think placing superior versions of your franchises on the PC isn't exactly doing the XBox brand any favors.
There is a reason why games like Tales of Zesteria, Nier, Gravity Rush, Nights of Azure, Persona, Guilty Gear, Yakuza, Dragon Quest, NitroPlus, etc generally stay exclusive on Sony consoles. The creators most likely know that there is not a market for these types of games on Microsoft consoles. Most of these games are not lighting the sales charts on fire by any stretch of the imagination, but they seemingly do well enough to constitute sequels and there seems to be a little demand for them which keep most of them going. D4 on XBox performed so bad, didn't the creator of the game literally have to beg gamers to buy it or something? D4 was excellent imo and it's terrible what happened to it. I did my part buying D4, but unfortunately the game was really neglected by the XBox contingent as with so many unique new franchises. Sorry to say this to the optimistic individuals, but Sea of Thieves, ReCore, Scalebound and CupHead aren't going to sale either as promising as they all look.
Back to my original point. Yes, Microsoft has made a commendable effort to creating new offerings and franchises and hopefully they will continue to do so, but if the community doesn't want them which is indicative by the sales and demand more sports, shooters and racing games, that's a tough call for Microsoft. I say at least give some franchises one more chance, but then again maybe Microsoft looks as these franchises as money pits. Last, I am not even sue if the Scorpio will begin Microsoft back to the glory with when even the creators are saying it will have a premium price. The XBOne was $500 and that wasn't even considered a premium price. What is Scorpio going to be? $600-$800? When you are already lagging behind the competition, I am not sure if going out with an insanely priced upgrade will rectify your issues.
There is a reason why games like Tales of Zesteria, Nier, Gravity Rush, Nights of Azure, Persona, Guilty Gear, Yakuza, Dragon Quest, NitroPlus, etc generally stay exclusive on Sony consoles. The creators most likely know that there is not a market for these types of games on Microsoft consoles. Most of these games are not lighting the sales charts on fire by any stretch of the imagination, but they seemingly do well enough to constitute sequels and there seems to be a little demand for them which keep most of them going. D4 on XBox performed so bad, didn't the creator of the game literally have to beg gamers to buy it or something? D4 was excellent imo and it's terrible what happened to it. I did my part buying D4, but unfortunately the game was really neglected by the XBox contingent as with so many unique new franchises. Sorry to say this to the optimistic individuals, but Sea of Thieves, ReCore, Scalebound and CupHead aren't going to sale either as promising as they all look.
Back to my original point. Yes, Microsoft has made a commendable effort to creating new offerings and franchises and hopefully they will continue to do so, but if the community doesn't want them which is indicative by the sales and demand more sports, shooters and racing games, that's a tough call for Microsoft. I say at least give some franchises one more chance, but then again maybe Microsoft looks as these franchises as money pits. Last, I am not even sue if the Scorpio will begin Microsoft back to the glory with when even the creators are saying it will have a premium price. The XBOne was $500 and that wasn't even considered a premium price. What is Scorpio going to be? $600-$800? When you are already lagging behind the competition, I am not sure if going out with an insanely priced upgrade will rectify your issues.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Really? I dont know one person with an xbox in AU
Warablo
Member
Ya, I am a big Gears of War fan, but that beta was awful for me. Once in awhile it shined, but nowhere like old Gears.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Seriously? Given Australia has traditionally been a really strong territory for Xbox, I find that extraordinarily difficult to believe.
Even the OG did really well here. I left EB around 2002 but still had many friends there back then. Mates told me that at one point Sony bluffed EB and threatened to "pull the PS2" from store shelves because staff were recommending the Xbox over the PS2. Xbox had been outselling the PS2 on a monthly basis down here and Sony were actively trying to figure out why. So they were calling stores as customers to see what they'd recommend.
Xbox has always been strong down here. I believe the 360 ended up outselling the PS3 here overall (stand to be corrected).
The Xbox One here at the best first month ever I think. Helps that the PS4 was in short supply of course.
Sony would have to mess up harder than even PS3 to see if there is a chance. Because even with a PS3 disaster they still sold more in Europe.
uncledonnie
Banned
I agree with you in general but in the case of Ryse, I'm pretty sure it's not their IP. If I remember they tried to buy it from Crytek for a sequel and got denied.
Lost Odyssey is the one that hurts the most. Even more so because the game did reasonably well.
A perfect storm of bad press coupled with the spread of outrage through social media and forums. Microsoft released a product that was technologically inferior to its competitor but one that cost nearly $100 more. The increase in price was due to Kinect at the time of the NSA/US spying scandal. No one wanted an accessory that was always on or would listen or capture your likeness, voice, video, etc.
Couple this with the no used games at a time when digital wasn't as widespread as now, Gamestop was still super dominant with used game trade ins, as well as always online. There was press about how American military servicemen and servicewomen picked the PS4 since they could still play while deployed without internet. People like Adam Orth and comments about how if people don't want all this they can stick with Xbox 360. It created negative press and reaction. Only gamers think it has to do with lack of IP's. No one cares about a Bloodborne that sells 2 million worldwide when a GTA V that sells 40 million plays worse on one console etc.
If it was about IP's, Microsoft wouldn't have done so well last gen. This gen, they're even losing in their last gen dominant countries of US/Canada/Australia/UK.
But with the Xbox One S and Scorpio coupled with the missteps by Sony for the PS4 Pro, you could see some ground regained.
LiquidSolid
Member
You're putting too much weight in your anecdotal evidence. Aus is no Sonyland like NZ but the PS3 still comfortably beat the 360 there.
Pretty much.
cheezcake
Member
Its about the groups you hang out with. I have two distinct groups of friends who pretty much all have XB1 and another distinct group that all have PS4.
Speaking of "extraordinarily difficult to believe", haha. The Xbox took years to beat the PS2 in any single week of sales - and only after its price drop to $249. Your hearsay is as useful as it is accurate.
Mostly i think "diverse" is code for japanese games...which is definitely true. Xbox one is very much a western console, even more so than the 360 which had some great japanese rpgs. Scalebound could be the single game that breaks that trend but it isn't out yet and some of its showing has been suspect.
For my part Halo and Gears (to a lesser degree) are why i'm on the xbox. The extra exclusives are gravy (looking forward to sea of thieves)
ethomaz
Banned
PS3 outsold 360 in AUS.
Xbone had the best launch until PS4 release in early December... PS4 owns the crow after that.
BTW AUS or NZ being a place Xbone sold more was purely a GAF joke (meme)... PS4 sold more in both place since launch by a comfortable margin.
AUS: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS...ft-Says-They-Sold-More-Accessories-62335.html
Microsofts biggest issue right now isn't the lack of "new IPs" it's a lack of gaming diversity and only finding success in markets that don't want that diversity.
Most of Microsofts IPs have equivalents on other platforms that are either achieving parity or are better regarded
Forza = GT, Halo = FPS, Quantum Break = Uncharted ect combine that with 3rd partys also offering comparible experiences and Microsoft is fighting an uphill battle.
The current gaming market is over saturated with games. So people buy consoles with experiences that they "don't want to miss" rather then consoles that have "good" experiences. Usually that means AAA visuals and large budgets. Which is makes approving diverse games without a current market on your system hugely risky (or stupid)
Which in paractise means that Microsoft is either making AAA hybrid games trying to hit both their audience and a new audience without alienating both, or they have to go into the AA space with fresh ideas.
Luckily it seems like thats the direction Phil Spencer is taking Xbox. However most of these games probably won't be ready until Scorpio.
Ps ( if Emulators can teach game makers anything it's that 5-7th gen era games still can look incredible when rendering at 1080p or higher, and those games were relatively cheep to make)
Most of Microsofts IPs have equivalents on other platforms that are either achieving parity or are better regarded
Forza = GT, Halo = FPS, Quantum Break = Uncharted ect combine that with 3rd partys also offering comparible experiences and Microsoft is fighting an uphill battle.
The current gaming market is over saturated with games. So people buy consoles with experiences that they "don't want to miss" rather then consoles that have "good" experiences. Usually that means AAA visuals and large budgets. Which is makes approving diverse games without a current market on your system hugely risky (or stupid)
Which in paractise means that Microsoft is either making AAA hybrid games trying to hit both their audience and a new audience without alienating both, or they have to go into the AA space with fresh ideas.
Luckily it seems like thats the direction Phil Spencer is taking Xbox. However most of these games probably won't be ready until Scorpio.
Ps ( if Emulators can teach game makers anything it's that 5-7th gen era games still can look incredible when rendering at 1080p or higher, and those games were relatively cheep to make)
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I know the OG didn't beat the PS2. I wasn't saying it was. My post was responding to a post that insinuated basically no one owns an Xbox here. I was trying to point out that Australia is one of the few countries that Xbox does well in.
I understand what you were trying to do. You just told a ridiculous tall tale to try and oversell its strength.
LurkFish17
Member
I think the problem will be with whether or not a game like scalebound does well enough to convince Microsoft to pursue diversity.
Salty Hippo
Member
It's not just japanese games though. Sony is way less adverse to greenlighting stuff like Tearaway and allowing their studios (western and japanese) to pursue new IP. But the defacto exclusive support from japanese thirds is really what sets them apart. Microsoft shouldn't completely ignore the absence of games like Yakuza, Nier and Ni-Oh on their platform. Sure, they wouldn't sell many units on Xbox but if Microsoft approached these devs and offered help with the ports I'm sure they could get those games. They are not relevant for the mass market but they matter for the hardcore audience, people like us who live and breath this stuff. Microsoft simply doesn't give a shit that this disparity makes their library look bad in comparison with the PS4, and I think that's a mistake.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Even with the PS3 disaster, they managed to more or less match the Xbox 360's LTD by the time the generation was over.
Also to add to this - I feel like their major studios should be leading the charge on new IP, not external studios who can barely spare the resources to do so, like Armature and even Platinum (Scalebound is clearly proving to be a tougher job than what they're used to). What would generate excitement amongst Xbox fans more than hearing that alongside Halo, 343 was working on a new IP? I refuse to believe that they don't have the resources available to them to do so.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I'll bet you an avatar it'll be above 80.
LukasTaves
Member
Bungie locking themselves for 10 years on destiny makes it pretty clear that wasn't franchise fatigue that they wanted, but rather to own the franchise, and a bigger chunk of the sales.
Outrun
Member
Loved that one.
This...
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