TheLegendOfMart
Banned
No, what is ignorant is assuming those games were successful purely because of Molyneux vision..
As has already said, he is a "dreamer" it's producers and developers who put that vision into practice.
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The Trial Of Peter Molyneux by RockPaperShotgun
- Thread starter Pie and Beans
- Start date
No, what is ignorant is assuming those games were successful purely because of Molyneux vision..
As has already said, he is a "dreamer" it's producers and developers who put that vision into practice.
I agree that we are inferring tone and there's room of misinterpretation. Maybe he didn't mean it as an insult or accusation.
I was wrong actually. He thought he could make the game in 9 months but they had some trouble and that wasn't possible, that was the reason he signed with a publisher and gave away mobile rights.
So yeah, still not a scam artist or anything close.
Really goes to show he doesn't even think before he speaks, thoughout the interview he says the game will be ready by Easter, then 3 months, then 7 months and finally 9 months. I bet it won't be ready for another year.
This interview is exactly what Molyneux and 22Cans needed, a huge kick up the ass to get their act together. Most of the things brought up in the interview would never be heard from again without the interview, the backer pledge rewards for example, Molyneux actually thinks he doesn't owe people anything as they've provided a early version of the game already. And the fact he clearly forgot about his "God of Gods" and hasn't even bothered to meet him once.
This interview is exactly what Molyneux and 22Cans needed, a huge kick up the ass to get their act together. Most of the things brought up in the interview would never be heard from again without the interview, the backer pledge rewards for example, Molyneux actually thinks he doesn't owe people anything as they've provided a early version of the game already. And the fact he clearly forgot about his "God of Gods" and hasn't even bothered to meet him once.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
He's been in the games industry for over 30 years, I'll bet a good number of projects he was working on have gone over time and over budget.
There is no excuse.
All those posters saying "it's just video games", it's also a business. ANY COMPANY that consistently puts out shitty products and breaks promises like this should have these questions asked.
Also feel that everyone's just skipping over Molyneux admitting to deliberately asking for money when he knew he couldn't deliver on the product with it. And the lies in the interview he ends up trapping himself in a few questions later.
10 YEARS of this. Other developers make ambitious games and face the same technical hurdles but they don't have the lies to their name.
A man with decades of experience making games and not meeting deadlines didn't know he wouldn't deliver his own project in under 9 months? And it's been like a year since then and still no delivery.
Also feel that everyone's just skipping over Molyneux admitting to deliberately asking for money when he knew he couldn't deliver on the product with it. And the lies in the interview he ends up trapping himself in a few questions later.
10 YEARS of this. Other developers make ambitious games and face the same technical hurdles but they don't have the lies to their name.
A man with decades of experience making games and not meeting deadlines didn't know he wouldn't deliver his own project in under 9 months? And it's been like a year since then and still no delivery.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
How?
If anything, this is more of a director going on Kickstarter saying "I need half a million quid to make this amazing movie because we want to be independent!", makes half a million quid, signed up with a publisher anyway because "I actually didn't calculate the cost of production for the movie which is another million quid", promises releases within nine months only to release a very incomplete product in the market and expects you to enjoy the movie held up by tapes. While you're at it, you have already promised to people that one lucky viewer who sees his current movie in the theatre will get a chance to play as the lead actor in the new movie and will also get to keep a share of all the profits for a decade to come. That one lucky viewer not only doesn't get his share of profit, but he hasn't even been contacted for over a year after the initial few hellos. This hasn't happened because they have yet to complete the movie which has already taken an additional two years and is barely halfway done with production. Oh and that decades of profit and lead role? That'll expire in six months now because fuck you.
All this while the director decides to announce another movie he is working on that will be an "IMAX 3D experience like never before", and the movie isn't even shot on IMAX or is 3D.
Am I getting this right? If this was in any other industry, they would be chewed down to pieces but its gaming and the developers are sensitive and we can't step on their feelings because they will point fingers and say "you are the reason the game isn't complete and I'm done talking to the press! you are the reason i am wasting time talking to you about nonsense instead of making the game!" when you clearly had 3 years to do so.
Stop acting like a child, Peter. I know we all are trying our best to achieve what we want to achieve and we all lie to get our point across or get our product out there, but NOT when you are dealing with other people's money. You have to be straight up and personal and explain, and not explain after someone decides to FINALLY sit down with you for an hour and call you out on all the lies you've said and haven't delivered on anything promised. There's a reason why you wanted to be independent and its because of all these bullshit lies you have to give to publisher. We are not publishers! Explain the damn thing instead of feeding us a lie and us wasting time asking why'd you lie instead of asking what went wrong.
This industry is full of hardworking people who would kill to be in the high horse that Peter is in, and actually deliver their promises and beyond. There are dozens and dozens of failed Kickstarter projects that could've actually delivered on the promise but we all give the veteran a chance to see if he can teach these kids how its done. Sadly, all Peter has done is tarnished Kickstarter for the ones that pledged.
I had no idea 30 years in the industry gave you the power to predict the future.
2 Slice Toaster
Member
Leading an interview off asking the person if they think they are a pathological liar and then feigning surprise over people reading the tone as negative seems somewhat dishonest on Walker's part.
Looking at this thread, Walker is the journalist we need, but one who we don't deserve.
That's how you do an interview, it's just that the whole gaming industry is so used to journalism being free PR that such an interview ends up being a shocker.
I'm reposting this stuff in this thread as well, because there's still people thinking he's a visionary and not lying on purpose:
A guy who worked for him:
That's how you do an interview, it's just that the whole gaming industry is so used to journalism being free PR that such an interview ends up being a shocker.
I'm reposting this stuff in this thread as well, because there's still people thinking he's a visionary and not lying on purpose:
Peter Molyneux said:
Peter Molyneux about Godus said:
A guy who worked for him:
Woo-Fu
Banned
So you're saying that pandering to a liar is more likely to yield truth than calling them on their bullshit?
Call them on it and then watch them self-destruct.
mcwizardry
Member
It seems to me that Peter is always chasing some utopian version of a game that floats about in his head and forgets that he operates in the real world. He's probably so consumed by that idea that money, budget, time or other people fall by the wayside. The interview was probably necessary, especially by someone like Walker who has followed his career as a journalist very closely over the years.
My heart goes out to Molyneux to some extent over that interview, but most of my sympathy goes out to those working on the development. Spending longer than anticipated working with undelivered deadlines and promises, all with a bay of angry and disappointed backers. All for a game which at this point will only be received and appreciated by a very select few. This week has only highlighted it further I'm sure and it must be a bad environment to be in.
Sir Blaming
Member
It's called planning. You start that when you are 10 or younger.
No but apparently 30 years in the business should allow you to get a rough ballpark of how much money you need to make a project you pitch.
You absolutely can go over budget (and how games do!).
But that's not what happened here.
DoktorEvil
Banned
This is enough to tell me that PM is incompetent.
Not because he's making his office admin a producer, but because he doesn't know how to delegate tasks and hire people to fill those roles with 30 years in the business AND he has direct experience with big name publishing.
Any good manager worth his or her weight can manage themselves out of 90-95% of situations on paper. He's not doing that.
He's a poor project manager and with his experiences he shouldn't be.
Good lord. Never work in Management. You'll ruin people.
I was *just* about to link that
Stallion Dan
Member
Many have made great careers out of it.
Hard questions need be asked leaving no room for BS replies, and if they try it their BS get called out.
Pureauthor
Member
Well if you're still so terrible at properly figuring out your shit in the development then maybe stop promising the fucking moon when you don't know if you can deliver.
Mexen
Member
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
And yet it took us 30 seconds to predict that Milo was a piece of shit thats been fed to us with pride and arrogance.
you can interview him yourself if you want to..
http://www.videogamer.com/news/interview_peter_molyneux.html
(ahem)
http://www.videogamer.com/news/interview_peter_molyneux.html
(ahem)
KiefbladeMaster
Member
Why was RPS so confrontational? Sure, Peter doesn't live up to his ambition a lot, but he certainly didn't deserve to be lambasted like this. Most interviews and anything else I've seen of him, he seems like a very sincere dude.
benicillin
Banned
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's morally wrong, but everyone holding it up as the "paragon of what an interview should be" should really want more than that out of their journalists.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Yeah! Fuck you Consumers! Fucking deal with it. Who cares that PM took money and hasn't given out the rewards due according to KS. Just take your -$60 like a man and go home!
/Eyeroll
Godus isn't a scam. It's just a project that took out money and didn't put out a promised product. And then went back on its own statements.
He planned it for 9 months and that planned failed. Was it his fault it took longer? I don't know. That still doesn't make it a lie or a scam.
Thanks for the career advice.
Nope. You're reading what you like from my words. I never said that asking weak questions leads to the truth. I'm saying that goading them into absolute defensiveness won't yield truth either. Which is all that RPS managed to accomplish today.
Peter Molyneux: I’ll tell you why, John. Because we’re so fucking busy trying to make this game a great game. Everybody here, every single person here is doing something on the game, with the exception of Michelle, and even Michelle who is the office administrator is now acting as a producer to help out. And someone called Peter Murphy who is the finance director. Everyone else is programming, doing art, coding, doing concept drawings, testing, and there isn’t, there’s not, we’re not a big enough company to have someone who looks after the pledges. We did have someone like that and unfortunately they left and went and left the industry. And you know, maybe if we had more money than anybody else, we’d employ lots of support people to handle that. We’re just a small indie developer. If I was Electronic Arts then, fair enough, justified, because they’ve got the infrastructure. You know I think something like 80% of their people are support people and only 20% people are actually people who produce stuff, who make code and art.
[later]
RPS: OK, can we just clarify one thing. A number of sites have reported this week that the Godus team has been hugely reduced, there’s very few people left working on it, but you’ve implied that the whole of 22cans is working on it. Where’s the truth in that?
Peter Molyneux: No, I didn’t say that.
RPS: Sorry, I misunderstood you then.
Hmm? Hmm.
I know not everyone has read the full interview as it seems the site is overloaded, but there are moments where John is actually very kind to Peter, despite his frustrations that John's out to ruin him. He wants Molyneux to stop.. lying, which is basically what everyone wants.
[later]
RPS: OK, can we just clarify one thing. A number of sites have reported this week that the Godus team has been hugely reduced, there’s very few people left working on it, but you’ve implied that the whole of 22cans is working on it. Where’s the truth in that?
Peter Molyneux: No, I didn’t say that.
RPS: Sorry, I misunderstood you then.
Hmm? Hmm.
I know not everyone has read the full interview as it seems the site is overloaded, but there are moments where John is actually very kind to Peter, despite his frustrations that John's out to ruin him. He wants Molyneux to stop.. lying, which is basically what everyone wants.
dead monkey uk
Member
I would give this post 8/10 if videogamer.com still gave out review scores.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
When has a game ever met its deadline and been 100% ready?
He should have allowed extra time for contingencies and budgeted accordingly.
This guy is a moron, he has no clue how to run a studio or make a game, he makes ridiculous overblown promises and the poor producers and developers have to try make good on his promises, they are the ones that get fired when they cant meet it and Molyneux survives another day thinking he is the messiah.
I'm glad someone called him out on his bullshit and knocked him down a peg or two.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I can't even read the interview. Site is being hit hard.
Sometimes interviews need to be uncomfortable. They don't always need to be like this, but sometimes the scales are tipped so much to one side that they need something heavy to offset it. Was it harsh and certainly very hard on Molyneux and possibily the team? Yeah, but look at it the other way, it gave Peter the oportunity to talk much more frankly than usual and shed light on a lot of things. That's journalism.
Ingueferroque
Banned
I can't believe his answer to the KS not raising enough money. He's been in this industry for decades and didn't have the numbers crunched before making the KS?
Kind of a shitty response by Walker regardless. Don't forget that phone interviews transcribe weirdly when not edited.
Kind of a shitty response by Walker regardless. Don't forget that phone interviews transcribe weirdly when not edited.
HappyHunting
Neo Member
He called him a pathological liar... even white lies count, he can't stop himself as seen in above quotes.
First of all there are a lot of Journalism Experts in this thread - as I expected. People who know exactly how to do an interview and have much criticism regarding Walker's job. This is why I come to the internet, to hear from you experts. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's very generous of you to turn away from an actual career and instead give your time to critiquing how other people do their job. Where would we be without you... besides hanging out in a message board thread with what is obviously our ample free time.
Secondly, Peter deserves to be interviewed like this. He made Curiousity, a game where you buy DLC to remove blocks. It was later revealed that there were an infinite amount of blocks until Molyneux decided to end this particular scam. To the winner a reward was given; a reward to be found in his next game. This new game has not been finished after a very successful Kickstarter and years of work. Now this project is being drawn down while a new project is in the works. Again, Peter deserves to be interviewed like this because a disgusting pattern - laid out above - has been clearly identified.
Third, Peter has gone from running a successful studio, to working with the big boys in the industry, to creating an indie studio, to scamming people on Kickstarter. The trajectory is clear and journalism has nothing to do with it. It seems industry heads - the ones with the money - have made their choice regarding Peter. Now the story is how the public shouldn't trust Peter with their money. I'm glad RPS is covering this descent in the way they are doing. It provides context, it denies Peter cover, and it matches the mood of anyone who's followed this.
Secondly, Peter deserves to be interviewed like this. He made Curiousity, a game where you buy DLC to remove blocks. It was later revealed that there were an infinite amount of blocks until Molyneux decided to end this particular scam. To the winner a reward was given; a reward to be found in his next game. This new game has not been finished after a very successful Kickstarter and years of work. Now this project is being drawn down while a new project is in the works. Again, Peter deserves to be interviewed like this because a disgusting pattern - laid out above - has been clearly identified.
Third, Peter has gone from running a successful studio, to working with the big boys in the industry, to creating an indie studio, to scamming people on Kickstarter. The trajectory is clear and journalism has nothing to do with it. It seems industry heads - the ones with the money - have made their choice regarding Peter. Now the story is how the public shouldn't trust Peter with their money. I'm glad RPS is covering this descent in the way they are doing. It provides context, it denies Peter cover, and it matches the mood of anyone who's followed this.
dead monkey uk
Member
Sir Blaming
Member
Arguably, this interview needed to happen whether we like it or not. True, it could have been done more professionally, but really, could it really go that way? I don't know.
But what I know is that Peter has been "over promising" which is the basically, lying, for almost decades now. One would think he have learn from it, but no, he didn't.
I can forgive people who have learn from their mistakes, but not the one who keeps committing them.
But what I know is that Peter has been "over promising" which is the basically, lying, for almost decades now. One would think he have learn from it, but no, he didn't.
I can forgive people who have learn from their mistakes, but not the one who keeps committing them.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Man. You fucking suck at analogies. That isn't what going on here because in your situation, the director put out a finished product.
Oh man, this must be the most epic interview in gaming industry I've ever read. It started like Frost versus Nixon, and when further reading made me think the bestest best words fired by RPS would destroy the other side, the mighty Molyneux successfully prevented it from turning into Dave Skylark versus Kim Jong-un. I want a Game Dev Tycoon sequel featuring this kind of boss fight.
Broder Salsa
Banned
DoktorEvil
Banned
It's not the promises that bother me per say. Every company is going to promise the moon. That's part of marketing.
Peter's promises are some flowery kind of bullshit that would get other producers and PR people axed. The Fable 2 acorn line is funny in retrospect, but it adds to his image that is made for him.
He's tries to appear as a hell of a nice guy and someone I didn't expect to hold onto working in the business. I'd much rather see David Cage out than PM, but David Cage isn't incompetent. PM is.
BOLDED for emphasis. How does any project manager not do this?
He knows how to make a game, but he doesn't know how to run a business or manage a studio.
R_thanatos
Member
Oh it's not surprise , the tone was set already ... you're in to ask questions so you set the tone ... if the person in front of you disagree , you can either press on or clarify your question.
He clarified.
I mean the question clearly took peter off guard , i'll give you that BUT that's not dishonnest ... the same way it was peter right to answer back and defend his case ( something he did )
The pathological liar surely was said and wrote by MANY before the interview and EVEN in the interview peter and john both agree that there is Molyneux reputation that need some explanation in order to clear this mess of kickstarters.
Isn't that why peter agreed to the interview ? isn't that why john did the interview ?
Necromanti
Member
I might have felt sorry for Molyneux if I hadn't learned that he was a dick on more than one occasion. The amazing thing is reading through his origins and realizing that he was a con artist from the start.
No it feels morally wrong to do what he did with the whole Curiosity/Godus project, he took people's money through lies. The interviewer just asked a bunch of questions and Molyneux could have simply said "no comment" or deny the interview all together.
Only he's not guys, how many quotes from the man himself admitting his lies or constantly contradicting himself do you guys need to grasp that? It's incredible.