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[dr3upmushroom]

Few optical illusions = de-emphasizing 3D? The 3D effect was already used to amazing effect in every level of the game. The depth you get when using the second 3D mode is incredible. Gotta crank dat slider all the way up though.

I had this argument enough in the game's OT that I'm pretty sick of it, but I'm sure what Yahtzee meant was the the puzzle room are the only time that the 3D really adds to the game in a meaningful way.

Some people go on about "What do you mean? The whole game is improved by 3D! It makes it so much easier to land jumps because the 3D makes it easier to judge the distance between platforms! It improves the game so much!"

And then other people counter "People have been playing and finishing 3D platformers for years without 3D, including the other 3D Mario games. Also many people have played 3D Land to completion without 3D turned on, either by choice or because they can't see the effect, and still enjoyed, so it really doesn't seem like it's really such a huge game-changer."

But the impressiveness of the 3D aside, to me it seemed that Yahtzee was just saying that those parts are the most explicit use of the hardware.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Hmm, I didn't find the 3D all that helpful to be honest. It just made everything look AMAZING. I honestly look at it the same way as the jump from SD to HD. Going from 2D to 3D (mode 2 of course) in 3D Land is like, 300% better.

I guess 3D could be used exclusively for pure mechanics but I'm not sure I want a game that's comprised mainly of 3D mindfucks. Significant improvements to the game's visual presentation is good enough for me.

 

[Margalis]

"This game doesn't require color and people have been beating monochrome games for years!"

 

[Mael]

did he even play Mario 3d land at all?
I mean I could have said that before even playing the game :/
And I don't even care about that game.

 

[Eusis]

Hmm, I didn't find the 3D all that helpful to be honest. It just made everything look AMAZING. I honestly look at it the same way as the jump from SD to HD. Going from 2D to 3D (mode 2 of course) in 3D Land is like, 300% better.

What I wonder is if it's a subconscious benefit though. Guess the best way to test is to get through the game, then replay a random level without 3D on and see if we have more trouble than we think we should.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Hmm, I didn't find the 3D all that helpful to be honest. It just made everything look AMAZING. I honestly look at it the same way as the jump from SD to HD. Going from 2D to 3D (mode 2 of course) in 3D Land is like, 300% better.

I guess 3D could be used exclusively for pure mechanics but I'm not sure I want a game that's comprised mainly of 3D mindfucks. Significant improvements to the game's visual presentation is good enough for me.

Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way. I love 3D for games, movies usually have that weird look where it seems like everything is a cardboard cutout but with the 3DS everything actually has depth to it. I can't wait until home consoles catch up, I don't have a 3D display but from what I understand performance usually takes a pretty nasty hit when you play a PS3 or 360 game in 3D.

And I totally agree about the 3D not having much impact on the gameplay in 3D Land, but in the OT for the game there was a pretty good sized group of posters who for some reason insisted that the 3D made the game much more playable. It was like it wasn't enough to just say "The 3D looks cool," they had to prove that Nintendo was using 3D in some crazy way that we had never seen before.

"This game doesn't require color and people have been beating monochrome games for years!"

Not quite the same thing there, though I'm guessing you know that. Adding color is pretty much a no-objections improvement. The 3DS' 3D on the other hand isn't perfect; crosstalk is annoying to many people, it gives some people headaches, it drains the battery more quickly, some people find it gimmicky, etc.

I get what you're saying I guess, but you have a lame way of saying it. And to me the difference is that added some basic like colors drastically alters what it's possible to convey in games. Adding 3D just makes what was previously possible look cooler. Which is great, but 3D isn't the game-changer some make it out to be.

What I wonder is if it's a subconscious benefit though. Guess the best way to test is to get through the game, then replay a random level without 3D on and see if we have more trouble than we think we should.

I did this, and unsurprisingly I was perfectly able to beat even the last world of levels in 2D. As for whether it felt hardier, I think the placebo effect is going to have a huge impact on that, as in if you've convinced yourself that the 3D is helping you you'll feel a tangible increase in difficulty switching to 2D, and if you think the 3D isn't effecting how you play the game at all, you won't.

What would be really interesting is if one of the older 3D Mario games got a 3D version so we could see if anyone who couldn't pass some of the harder sections in the those games, say the parts in Sunshine with the floating platforms, suddenly could due to the supposed benefit in reading distance that the 3D gets you.

 

[AniHawk]

i enjoy the mario kind of platformer more than the rayman type of platformer. there's usually more secrets than in a rayman type of game, which is more of a gauntlet of challenges (super meat boy falls into this category, but both have little secret areas). mario games are a bit slower and require more thinking, and imagination can be rewarded. rayman games (at least rayman origins) are all about quick reflexes and skill.

with that said, mario 3d land is an extremely poor example of that type of game. every secret is in plain sight and there's very little in the realm of 'oh shit i could have done that?' like in smg2's wicked wall jumps. it feels like it was made within a year, and squanders the whole '2d mario but in 3d' thing that should have been awesome.

rayman origins doesn't have a lot of mindblowing moments, but it does a great job of making you feel like a badass. and you have come a long long way from it's a jungle out there by the time you beat the livid dead.

rayman's also got the better music, general atmosphere, and all that stuff. it's really no contest.

i think the biggest difference between the two is that 3d land was made because they had to. there needed to be a 3d mario game and ead tokyo was the one team that was most familiar with it. meanwhile, rayman origins happened because ancel wanted to make it. he was always excited to talk about it and that enthusiasm and joy carries over into the game.

 

[AniHawk]

(what others are there even? Meat Boy, N, 'Splosion Man...)

don't make me tap the sign

Spoiler

unless you were 'speaking' from the perspective of some hypothetical person.

 

[Mael]

What I wonder is if it's a subconscious benefit though. Guess the best way to test is to get through the game, then replay a random level without 3D on and see if we have more trouble than we think we should.

I fail my jumps as badly as in Galaxy 1 & 2 so yeah it brings nothing at all.
the only time I've effectively had a benefit from the 3D (I mean aside from the really good eye candy) was in these 3D perspective thingy where it is really helpful.

and this dual review is a disgrace for ZP, for once he had a platformer he actually liked he could talk and give props too and he decide to half ass it...
It sure was usefull to get 2 separate reviews for CoD MW3 and BF3....
for someone who can stop fucking whining about how much he hates the current status quo of military shooters he's not very consistent.
Next he'll complain that people don't talk sufficiently about some indy game he'll never give more than 2 minutes.

And Rayman Origin, all I can say is that it's actually better than that boring game that started it all from what I played, now I'm not sure if it's worth my time and the art style certainly doesn't help.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

i enjoy the mario kind of platformer more than the rayman type of platformer. there's usually more secrets than in a rayman type of game, which is more of a gauntlet of challenges (super meat boy falls into this category, but both have little secret areas). mario games are a bit slower and require more thinking, and imagination can be rewarded. rayman games (at least rayman origins) are all about quick reflexes and skill.

with that said, mario 3d land is an extremely poor example of that type of game. every secret is in plain sight and there's very little in the realm of 'oh shit i could have done that?' like in smg2's wicked wall jumps. it feels like it was made within a year, and squanders the whole '2d mario but in 3d' thing that should have been awesome.

rayman origins doesn't have a lot of mindblowing moments, but it does a great job of making you feel like a badass. and you have come a long long way from it's a jungle out there by the time you beat the livid dead.

rayman's also got the better music, general atmosphere, and all that stuff. it's really no contest.

i think the biggest difference between the two is that 3d land was made because they had to. there needed to be a 3d mario game and ead tokyo was the one team that was most familiar with it. meanwhile, rayman origins happened because ancel wanted to make it. he was always excited to talk about it and that enthusiasm and joy carries over into the game.

I totally agree with all of this (except I like the challenging skill-based platformers more than the exploratory kind). Rayman's charm really is the huge difference here. Mario doesn't exactly feel sterile or anything, but Rayman just has this feeling you get from a great movie or album where you know that it was a labor of love for whoever made it, and I typically only get that in games from indie games, or games that were developed by a single person or a very small studio. Cave Story is another somewhat recent one.

I felt like Rayman respected me more too. Mario was too easy, and like you said even the coins were just stupid easy to find and get. You'd think that the developer could have used those to challenge you, since if you aren't interested you can just skip them and move on for the most part, but I guess someone decided that everyone needed to be able to get every coin.

I think Yahtzee is spot-on when he says that Rayman nails a sweet spot between challenging and frustrating. Even with the chest chasing levels, which got demanding at the end, it's always clear what you need to do, it's just a matter of getting in the zone and doing it, and none of them ever feel impossible. It feels like Rayman is encouraging you to improve while Mario just assumes it'll scare you off if it presents a challenge. When Mario does try to pull off the exhilarating "You can die if you make the slightest mistake" kind of thing it totally fails; you can thwart Cosmic Mario by running in a circle.

Basically what it boils down to is Mario feels vanilla and Rayman is constantly exciting.

And I knew there'd be a few more platformers I'd missed, but I'd totally forgotten how many interesting-looking 2D games there are on the Wii.

 

[Margalis]

What would be really interesting is if one of the older 3D Mario games got a 3D version so we could see if anyone who couldn't pass some of the harder sections in the those games, say the parts in Sunshine with the floating platforms, suddenly could due to the supposed benefit in reading distance that the 3D gets you.

This is not a good test because those games were designed for the limitations of the time. Meaning that things are spaced, sized and shadowed such that they are navigable with the scene projected into 2D. If the games become a lot easier with 3D that's a failure of the original game design.

But it would be extremely easy to create a game that was completely non-navigable via 2D projection. Hell, SM64 played with this concept in the corridors leading up to the big/small world paintings. (Imagine there was a hole you had to jump over in those corridors - good luck!)

There are a lot of things you basically can't do in a 2D projected game, like have moving platforms that look similar but are sized differently without being near a reference object.

 

[AniHawk]

I felt like Rayman respected me more too. Mario was too easy, and like you said even the coins were just stupid easy to find and get. You'd think that the developer could have used those to challenge you, since if you aren't interested you can just skip them and move on for the most part, but I guess someone decided that everyone needed to be able to get every coin.

yeah, this is a good point. there's often a lot of 'well we have to think of what the fans would like' that goes on in the industry, like people have to think around what the response would be. this often leads to dumbing things down because creators think their audience is dumb (eh, some are).

 

[Gui_PT]

Yahtzee is a hipster OH GOD

 

[Seraphinianus]

i officially hate anyone who uses the word "hipster" in an attempt to invalidate anyone's perspective. Get out of here with that bullshit. You're an insecure douche and you have no real counter-argument and are too socially retarded to simply disagree with a person and let it be. Get out of your mom's basement already because you're too emotionally attached to video games.

 

[Mael]

yeah, this is a good point. there's often a lot of 'well we have to think of what the fans would like' that goes on in the industry, like people have to think around what the response would be. this often leads to dumbing things down because creators think their audience is dumb (eh, some are).

The fun part is that in Mario it's usually more work for them while making the game to constantly be on the lookout to see if the game isn't too hard.
I mean look at the Galaxy games vs new Mario games.
I'm pretty sure that the inclusion of the Super Guide in Mario (and DKCR) led them into not giving a shit if the game was too hard or not (they still needed to balance it for multiplayer though).

And yes Yathzee is a hipster, like you couldn't tell before with his holier-than-thou attitude.

 

[explodet]

"What I find most encouraging is that an entirely 2D game has somehow swung a full-on boxed console release, it shows that the industry has woken up to the fact that demanding full on cutting edge polygon parades cripples developers with nailguns to the shins and a game that just looks great and sounds great and brims with personable charm is ultimately as sound a proposition aahhhh"

And then the industry goes right back to sleep and releases said 2D game in a month where tons of the aforementioned cutting edge polygon parades hyped to high heaven were released.

Even Assassin's Creed: Revelations, a game made by the same publisher was released in North America on the same day as Rayman Origins.
Two different games by the same publisher on the same day? Who DOES that?
(besides Pokemon and its imitators I mean)

 

[Rufus]

Mario is the light.

At this point I'd like to know what hipster even means. I see it thrown around more and more and it seems to apply less and less to what I originally thought the definition was.

 

[Mael]

And then the industry goes right back to sleep and releases said 2D game in a month where tons of the aforementioned cutting edge polygon parades hyped to high heaven were released.

Even Assassin's Creed: Revelations, a game made by the same publisher was released in North America on the same day as Rayman Origins.
Two different games by the same publisher on the same day? Who DOES that?
(besides Pokemon and its imitators I mean)

Don't look much into it, I mean I'm not even sure that guy even tried DKCR.
For someone who long for 2D boxed games on consoles he sure is late to the party.

 

[michaeltraps]

I don't really understand his "floating Lego blocks" criticism. Wouldn't most 3D platforming games give off the impression of random suspended objects in space? Plenty of 2D games have floating platforms but aren't given the same analysis.

I typically enjoy Yahtzee's reviews immensely as he's usually spot-on with legitimate flaws in a game, be it in an extreme fashion. That said, I really don't agree with his gripes on SM3DL. I've been playing that game fairly regularly and am enjoying every aspect of it and think the 3D has been put to impeccable use. It's a fantastic way of implementing the 3D capabilities of the handheld without beating you over the head with it and makes the game even more gorgeous than it already is. I do think it's a shot in the arm for Nintendo as far as platforming goes, giving a happy medium between NSMB and third-dimension Galaxy-esque games.

I own Rayman Origins for PS3 and am looking forward to playing it. I can see the benefits of both and think that they're giving the platforming genre fantastic exposure while offering two completely different experiences.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Mario is the light.

At this point I'd like to know what hipster even means. I see it thrown around more and more and it seems to apply less and less to what I originally thought the definition was.

a word that was relevant many years ago, but that neogaf basement dwellers just picked up on.

 

[Mael]

a word that was relevant many years ago, but that neogaf basement dwellers just picked up on.

Welcome to pop culture enjoy your stay.

 

[Dragon]

And yes Yathzee is a hipster, like you couldn't tell before with his holier-than-thou attitude.

So anyone who is self-righteous is a hipster. Got it. What's the relevancy here though?

 

[Seraphinianus]

Welcome to pop culture enjoy your stay.

lol no

You can't excuse yourself from making shitty ad hominem arguments by saying you're just following pop culture, which, by the way, is not invulnerable to criticism. Sorry your favorite mario game didn't get a glowing review from a guy whose shtick is to exaggerate flaws for comedic effect.

If you get to call him a "hipster" then I get to call you insecure and dense as hell.

 

[Octorockin']

I can see the benefits of both and think that they're giving the platforming genre fantastic exposure while offering two completely different experiences.

Nicely put. Some people won't like them both, but I think the two games compliment each other well.

 

[Mael]

lol no

You can't excuse yourself from making shitty ad hominem arguments by saying you're just following pop culture, which, by the way, is not invulnerable to criticism. Sorry your favorite mario game didn't get a glowing review from a guy whose shtick is to exaggerate flaws for comedic effect.

If you get to call him a "hipster" then I get to call you insecure and dense as hell.

Phahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahah
You're a riot.
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MARIO 3D LAND,
if anything this review is shitty because he found it funny to waste time he could have use talking about rayman to talk about something we already know he hates.
It's not funny and considering it's made to be entertainment first and foremost, it FAILS.
And the comment about pop culture was about the bastardisation of the words, that you would be so dense as to not catch that is actually funny.

So anyone who is self-righteous is a hipster. Got it. What's the relevancy here though?

So that we can move and talk about something more interesting maybe?

 

[Seraphinianus]

Phahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahah
You're a riot.
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MARIO 3D LAND,
if anything this review is shitty because he found it funny to waste time he could have use talking about rayman to talk about something we already know he hates.
It's not funny and considering it's made to be entertainment first and foremost, it FAILS.
And the comment about pop culture was about the bastardisation of the words, that you would be so dense as to not catch that is actually funny.

yeah, I was aware of that before your comment and you're not some master of subtlety, but it's not really relevant, as I'd rather talk about your lame use of it.

Here you are, still taking a yahtzee review seriously and caring about mario lol

So that we can move and talk about something more interesting maybe?

nope, stop trying to wiggle out of it.

there's nothing more interesting to discuss-- COMEDY REVIEWER. This thread is always normal until a Nintendo game gets reviewed. And no, it doesn't matter whether you find it funny or not-- you address it seriously, you lose.

 

[Mael]

yeah, I was aware of that before your comment and you're not some master of subtlety, but it's not really relevant, as I'd rather talk about your lame use of it.

Here you are, still taking a yahtzee review seriously and caring about mario lol

Where?

nope, stop trying to wiggle out of it.

there's nothing more interesting to discuss-- COMEDY REVIEWER. This thread is always normal until a Nintendo game gets reviewed. And no, it doesn't matter whether you find it funny or not-- you address it seriously, you lose.

Says the guy infuriated by a forum poster using the word 'hipster'

 

[Chuckpebble]

So anyone who is self-righteous is a hipster. Got it. What's the relevancy here though?

I always understood the one aspect of a hipster as being that they'll love something until it becomes popular, or mainstream, and then hate it.

Personally, I only had one problem with the review. He made it seem as though I wouldn't be able to try Rayman, as it was only available for the PS3 and 360.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Where?




Says the guy infuriated by a forum poster using the word 'hipster'

because it's a discussion forum and things that make discussions bad should be called out. cheers!

I don't really see anything good in the defense of calling yahtzee a "hipster." Guess you're all done here. Have a good day!

 

[Mael]

because it's a discussion forum and things that make discussions bad should be called out. cheers!

I don't really see anything good in the defense of calling yahtzee a "hipster." Guess you're all done here. Have a good day!

I'm actually curious, where did you see that I was caring about what he thought of Mario at any time?
You wouldn't be one of the dubious posters who make accusations he can't back up, are you?

 

[Marlowe89]

Here you are, still taking a yahtzee review seriously and caring about mario lol

I dunno, the fact that you would actually go to the lengths of calling everyone who MIGHT have gotten the impression he is a hipster in some sense basement-dwellers and insecure douchebags might mean you're taking the subject matter a little too seriously yourself; arguably more so than the people who posted these things.

I personally wasn't being too serious when I called yahtzee a hipster, but I do think he sometimes goes into games with the "oh god this is too mainstream, but this more obscure game is gonna be much better" mindset. I'm not sure how that translates into me being an insecure manchild since I do find the overwhelming majority of his reviews entertaining and even agreeable to some extent.

 

[Seraphinianus]

did he even play Mario 3d land at all?
I mean I could have said that before even playing the game :/
And I don't even care about that game.

I'm actually curious, where did you see that I was caring about what he thought of Mario at any time?
You wouldn't be one of the dubious posters who make accusations he can't back up, are you?

turns out I am that guy! whoops! ololololol

I dunno, the fact that you would actually go to the lengths of calling everyone who MIGHT have gotten the impression he is a hipster in some sense basement-dwellers and insecure douchebags might mean you're taking the subject matter a little too seriously yourself; arguably more so than the people who posted these things.

I personally wasn't being too serious when I called yahtzee a hipster, but I do think he sometimes goes into games with the "oh god this is too mainstream, but this more underrated game is gonna be much better" mindset. I'm not sure how that translates into me being an insecure manchild since I do find the overwhelming majority of his reviews entertaining and even agreeable to some extent.

I think the assertion that anyone likes anything just because it's less popular is usually a pretty dubious assertion that can't really ever be backed up by evidence. Just a dead end for conversation because the only response is "you don't actually know that" and then there's nothing left to discuss, you know?

 

[Mael]

turns out I am that guy! whoops! ololololol

At least you're graceful about it, I can respect that.

I think the assertion that anyone likes anything just because it's less popular is usually a pretty dubious assertion that can't really ever be backed up by evidence. Just a dead end for conversation because the only response is "you don't actually know that" and then there's nothing left to discuss, you know?

I read somewhere that a good product make people passionate about it, good or bad.
the way it was put meant that there was nothing worse than a product that brings apathy since people usually forget about it.
That's how it tried to explained how something hugely popular could bring scathing vitriol despite being very honest in how it was presented.
For example I'd say that the latest Zelda is not an extraordinary product because it flew under the radar and mainly generated appathy in the market.
I guess it's merely a description more than an explanation.
I guess some people really prefer stuffs that are not popular, not because they're unpopular but because their taste don't gel well with what the general public like.

Heck people that love platformers were the mainstream once after all.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Yahtzee reviews a Nintendo game: at least two pages of discussion.

 

[Osietra]

Mael and Seraphanianus, go to the naughty step.

 

[Marlowe89]

I find myself in complete agreement with many of his Nintendo reviews though, most notably Skyward Sword (with the exception of motion controls, which I never had any problem with).

 

[Mael]

Mael and Seraphanianus, go to the naughty step.

I'll be honest I'm always happy to learn new idioms that I'm unaware of,
you'll have to educate me on that one.

I find myself in complete agreement with many of his Nintendo reviews though, most notably Skyward Sword (with the exception of motion controls, which I never had any problem with).

I usually never agree with his views, his eternal love for sandbox games is a mistery to me but at this point I'm just here for the jokes and the funny images.

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

I'll be honest I'm always happy to learn new idioms that I'm unaware of,
you'll have to educate me on that one.



I usually never agree with his views, his eternal love for sandbox games is a mistery to me but at this point I'm just here for the jokes and the funny images.

You must not have watched many of his reviews lately because he's been mocking sandbox games.

 

[Mael]

You must not have watched many of his reviews lately because he's been mocking sandbox games.

He still gives them plenty of screen time and didn't exactly shit on SR the 3rd.
But that's his opinion and not mine so I don't exactly care as long as it's funny he can talk about a lawnmower simulator I'll be there.

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

He still gives them plenty of screen time and didn't exactly shit on SR the 3rd.
But that's his opinion and not mine so I don't exactly care as long as it's funny he can talk about a lawnmower simulator I'll be there.

Did it deserve to be shitted on? Irrespective he was fairly negative and uncomplementary about it. Oh, and he has zero sandbox games in Top 5 list.

Correction: 4 and 5 were sandbox games.

 

[michaeltraps]

I usually never agree with his views, his eternal love for sandbox games is a mistery to me but at this point I'm just here for the jokes and the funny images.

I don't think he's given any sandbox games a free pass, in fact he's probably bemoaned more games of the genre than praised them. I'd say his only 100% consistent opinion is his hate of modern military first-person shooter.

His approval is often given to things that are fresh and fun. While SM3DL is indeed fun, it's not entirely new, sticking to typical Nintendo formula - an obvious target for his particular criticisms. Rayman has a fresh approach to an old license and is quite enjoyable (from what I've heard at least) - a clear target for his praise.

 

[Mael]

Did it deserve to be shitted on? Irrespective he was fairly negative and uncomplementary about it. Oh, and he has zero sandbox games in Top 5 list.

I'll be frank I'm not so into it that I want to check it, it's just how I perceived it.
Heck another, better, example would be Prince of persia.
He finds the serie brillant, I'd call it mindless and barely interesting.
I had to sludge through the 2 crowns one and began the other 2 and I was bored out of my mind.
I absolutely love NSMBW and he'd prefer it to have never be made at all.
I mean I'm not sure I can find a poster on GAF who's less inline with my taste :lol
I still find some of his reviews funny though.

And for the record, I'm not having tha tmuch fun with SM3DL so we agree on something...

 

[Rufus]

I'd say his only 100% consistent opinion is his hate of modern military first-person shooter.

And motion controls, as far as I can remember.

 

[Seraphinianus]

I'll be honest I'm always happy to learn new idioms that I'm unaware of,
you'll have to educate me on that one.

I think he's saying we should do it.

well, this is what real pic January was made for, what do you say, baby?

 

[Zomba13]

And motion controls, as far as I can remember.

And multiplayer.

 

[Rufus]

And multiplayer.

Right. Except TF2. And local multi, I believe.

 

[Corky]

Here I've been thinking, as usual why is the ZP thread bumped on any other day than a wednesday? And each time I go into the thread it's filled with page after page of outrage over his pseudo-criticisms of a nintendo game...

Don't know why people take his opinion to heart, you think he wants to be nice and say good things about games? He'll take minuscule flaws and creates an episode about them. I can't be the only one who watches ZP for the laughs and not deep insight...

 

[Rufus]

You're not alone in that, no. The point's been retread countless times in this thread. I feel like everything's been said about the little corner he's cut out for himself already.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Ahhh the Sacred Cow (Nintendo) Defence Force never fails to entertain.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

I'm pretty sure that the inclusion of the Super Guide in Mario (and DKCR) led them into not giving a shit if the game was too hard or not (they still needed to balance it for multiplayer though)

I played through the odd-numbered world in NSMB Wii with a couple friends and don't remember it being challenging outside of a few late levels. And 3D Land has the Super Guide thing and it's very easy.

I've never played DKCR but it doesn't seem to me that the Super Guide has had any effect on difficulty at all.