as always better players will be better than worse players regardless of what control method they use
but the same player will be better if they use motion + stick controls vs. stick only controls
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TheSrb2DUDE: Splatoon 2- Motion controld vs sticks?
- Thread starter foxuzamaki
- Start date
as always better players will be better than worse players regardless of what control method they use
but the same player will be better if they use motion + stick controls vs. stick only controls
lol based on what
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Likely true, but shit talking because you're into using waggle as a main method of aiming seems silly.
Throw out all the evidence you want, I'll always use stick only. Gyro Aiming makes my weak-ass wrists hurt, so I'll stick with what keeps me comfortable even if it isn't "optimal".
Fuck it, who even cares about "optimal" controls? 99% of people here aren't gonna be competing at SplatEVO any time soon.
Fuck it, who even cares about "optimal" controls? 99% of people here aren't gonna be competing at SplatEVO any time soon.
agree that it's silly, I think people mostly want others to give the motion controls a fair shake because while they are better there is a learning curve involved. some people drop them too quick because of their initial reaction to them. also one correction, gyro assisted aim isn't waggle.
motion + stick aiming is more responsive, fluid, and accurate than stick only controls
watch the video in the OP
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Split joycons with motion controls.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think a more accurate statement would be that between two players of equal skill, the one using gyro controls would technically have an advantage if they were utilizing it to it's fullest potential.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Referring to K Dash on the last page talking about how people who use sticks just give him/her easy wins.
his video doesnt prove anything lol. Its not in actual gameplay and he ignores the fact that you have to move both your hands to actually aim.
Nevermind the fact that it doesnt prove its more responsive fluid or accurate.
gyro assisted aim being more responsive and fluid is a fact. I mean, again, just watch the video and watch the camera movements when he's using motion compared to just the sticks. the camera movements are more fluid and more responsive whereas the stick only movements are slower and more stiff by comparison.
he also does a good job of showing how that would translate to in game scenarios like splatting someone in front of you and having to whip the camera 180 degrees to get someone behind you or splat dashing or quickly hiding on a wall or jumping from higher ground and splatting someone while in mid air.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Did you try watching the video the thread was made about?Edit: alright, you appear to need to watch it again.
Jonneh3003
Banned
I find gyro quicker and more comfortable. Different strokes for different folks.
crabhammer
Member
It feels that way because there's slight aim assist in most console shooters, and there's none in splat. That feeling of it being imprecise is the feeling of the training wheels being off.
Splatoon motion controls make the game playable to me. I've always had a slight aversion to dual stick control in shooters. It's convoluted, uncomfortable, and comedically unintuitive. Then only reason anyone is okay with it is because it's been the standard for 16 years now. I wish everything played on a pad could allow for Splatoon style motion aiming.
I remember when Dark Souls 3 came out I had just come off a long stint playing Splatoon 1's ranked mode with my roommates and I instinctively tried more than once to move the 360 controller I was using to aim a bow in that game lol. Just give me subtle motion-based aim adjustment in everything.
Jonneh3003
Banned
I'm not convinced you actually watched the whole video... he does target practice with gyro and then with sticks and the results are pretty clear.
Candescence
Member
Can we retire this term already? 'Waggle' is literally dead and buried, motion controls have become considerably more sophisticated since the Wii days even without fancy tracking systems. Even Nintendo's own new motion-based minigame collection has gone beyond just shaking the controller.
Gyro aiming sure as hell ain't waggle.
Pretty much. Gyro is a form of 'absolute' aiming similar to a trackpad or a mouse, instead of the 'relative' aiming of a control stick, and is really only limited to reaction time and how quickly one can move their wrist. It's much easier and quicker to get a pin-point accurate aim with an absolute analog method than a relative one, which basically requires constantly fighting with the stick to line up your shot just right, and even harder with moving targets, hence why aim assist is practically mandatory for console shooters - complaints about 'regular' dual-stick aiming feeling terrible in this game in particular pretty much demonstrates why. And also why the need for aim assist with dual-stick shooters is a massive red flag that highlights a huge deficiency in modern controllers that aren't the Steam Controller.
This very important detail is why we had two threads back-to-back complaining about M&KB adaptors for console recently - my personal opinion is that controller hardware is outdated in this area due to Sony and MS not bothering to even properly innovate or even iterate on their controllers like Valve and Nintendo are doing. Seriously, when fucking Valve is beating them at their own game, there's a major problem.
My problem with mouse & keyboard aiming is I can't relax into my couch & do it.
Thank you. Using the term 'waggle', which was stupid to begin with, makes me wonder if it's 2007 again.
IMO, motion controls should be an option in any game that requires aiming, guns, bows, ect. Don't like them, turn them off, but motion controls not being there at all makes no sense since the majority of controllers today have a motion feature built in like the DS4.
When motion controls are disabled you can adjust the sensitivity for both the X and Y axis.
Anyway I'm curious about two things, firstly no aim assist in splatoon, why is that?
Secondly to all the people in this thread that use motion controls, how many are using motion when playing in handheld? I can't stand the motion controls but I'm playing strictly handheld, perhaps it's much easier (and comfortable) using a controller.
Jaded Alyx
Member
No aim assist probably because it might interfere with aiming at the ground? I don't know. Never played a multiplayer game with aim assist.
I don't play the game at all without motion, so yeh I use motion in handheld as well. And yes, it does feel much better docked and with a Pro Controller, namely because the Pro Controller feels better to hold, the right stick is much easier to access, and the sticks are less sensitive in general. I find the joycon sticks overly sensitive.
You can't adjust the sensitivity of the X and Y axes separately, which is what the poster was referring to I believe. I echo the sentiment as I feel like the Y sensitivity could do with being lowered a notch.
gcncontroller
Member
I actually think the motion controls are better and more intuitive in handheld mode, as it's much easier to reconcile the movement in my head as it relates to where I position the screen itself. A little easier for me, anyway, though it works just fine in tabletop/docked mode with a controller
so thatsrb2dude was on nitendolife talking about this and they got to why the right stick is limited to horizontal aiming and why botw isn't a good comparison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2OG1BkYhf4;t=6m35s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2OG1BkYhf4;t=6m35s
DiabloTheGrey
Member
So I decided to give motion control a chance after reading this thread.
I hated it on the 1st game because of how bulky the gamepad was, but since I've got a pro controller, I figured it might be a bit better.
Played for about an hour and a half with motion controls on. After the initial awkwardness, I finally got into a decent groove using them.
My splats per match went up and my points for ink coverage stayed about the same.
I then decided to go back to analog to see if I could do better than I had been.
Boy, oh boy! My brain completely forgot how to use analog controls. I couldn't play for shit.
So I guess I'll be making the Switch to motion controls now.
I've got to get better at CQC with them though.
I hated it on the 1st game because of how bulky the gamepad was, but since I've got a pro controller, I figured it might be a bit better.
Played for about an hour and a half with motion controls on. After the initial awkwardness, I finally got into a decent groove using them.
My splats per match went up and my points for ink coverage stayed about the same.
I then decided to go back to analog to see if I could do better than I had been.
Boy, oh boy! My brain completely forgot how to use analog controls. I couldn't play for shit.
So I guess I'll be making the Switch to motion controls now.
I've got to get better at CQC with them though.
MagusMaleficus
Member
Motion controls nauseate me...but then, so does VR, 3D movies, roller coasters...
I think I'm an old English farmer at heart.
I think I'm an old English farmer at heart.
panama chief
Member
The real issue is how much I miss motion controls on other consoles. Playing FFXIV(PS4), I had to drop bombs on the floor and couldn't motion the reticule....sadness.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Hmm...did you stop using the stick completely when you tried motion controls? Because as the kids these days say, "you're doing it wrong".
Yeah, I just watched this as well along with his original video mentioned by the OP.
He convinced me to give motion controls another serious try in Splatoon 2 when my copy arrives later this week as I do see the benefit of snappier and more efficient aiming as shown in the videos. Hopefully it will click with me more fully this time as I'd hate to get into another Splatoon 1 situation of constantly going back and forth between two control schemes that both never fully felt perfect for me.
How well would motion controls work with a game like PUBG I'm wondering?
DiabloTheGrey
Member
No, I used the right stick for broad left and right movements and motion for fine tune movement as was recommended in this thread.
When I switched back, it felt unnatural trying to look up and down without motion control.
Each movement felt like it took too long to achieve.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Good, good. I think a lot of people don't get this. They think motion controls means don't use the stick at all and then they get frustrated trying to turn round etc. by using motion only.
soldierblue
Member
I've had them off so far. I almost always use my Switch laying down with it above me, and the gyro doesn't center the camera correctly.
Nah, I can't take that at face value. Preference and playstyle is why people won't all agree, even assuming the gyro controls didn't lock out y-axis on the right stick.
Funny enough, I actually have to turn off lock-on free aim in the first two games, since there were bosses that are actually a lot more difficult because the moving around that you have to do makes it really challenging to hit them properly, like the Incinerator Drone in the first game. Prime 3, though, is that goooooood shit for controls.
The sticks in this game feel off, they did in Splatoon 1 as well so it's obviously something they know about. (I'm not talking about the lack of aim assistance)
The motion controls are obviously more accurate but they just make me want to play with a mouse.
Both control methods just feel like I'm fighting them more than anything. Think I'm done playing console shooters.
The motion controls are obviously more accurate but they just make me want to play with a mouse.
Both control methods just feel like I'm fighting them more than anything. Think I'm done playing console shooters.
of course, the point is that motion + stick aiming is better than just stick aiming so assuming that a player took the time to get comfortable they'd be better with motion + stick aiming than they were with just stick aiming. watch the video I posted on this page, near the end Dude talks about a few people in the competitive scene who used the stick only method and their ceilings were capped but one of them switched and it made him that much better.
Discokuningas
Member
This controls very well, but I think the gyro feels much better. It's also very different. I'm very excited about Prime 4. I'm sure it uses gyro.
Again, how long does it take for people to get proficient to twin sticks? I remember mine was way long ass time than a couple of hours.
ShinNoNoir
Member
I've used motion controls in Splatoon 1 and in Splatoon 2 I play with the JC grip with motion controls turned on. I briefly tried handheld mode during the tutorial section of the public Splatfest demo, but it didn't click with me (also tried with motion controls off, but that felt even worse). This evening I gave it a second try: I played some single player levels in handheld mode and after figuring out a natural neutral body position, I was able to play just fine.
crabhammer
Member
Assuming you play other shooters on dual stick, what made you wanna deal with dual stick controls in the first place? They're so unintuitive and clunky feeling, even when you're decent at it. Once Splatoon motion clicks it feels significantly more natural.
Nameless
Member
This is pretty much where I fall. I never doubted that motion controls afford you a higher ceiling, but I just don't like motion controls, no matter how good the implementation is. No amount of practice or learning curve will change this.
That said I've been doing just fine with sticks -- solid win rate and I'm #1 on my team most of the time.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
You can? Just press the y button
I've played PUBG with the Steam Controller and gyro is absolutely amazing there. I'm tempted to try my configuration with the Dualshock 4 and see if I can get top ten in solo with just gyro...
Quick tip for all: The camera adjust button is your friend, use it for everything. Instead of moving the sticks and flicking your wrist, tap the readjust button while flicking the stick in the intended direction and you'll face that way(much like old school Resident Evil), using your right wrist to aim at targets while this happens; this works for any direction. This is also the secret sauce to using a heavy splatling.
Chronospherics
Member
If you watch high level matches, like ESL and the like, it's not uncommon that players will shift round incredibly quickly. I didn't say it was faster than the faster ends of mouselook, but neither is moving your gamepad.
Splatoon is also constrained to horizontal movement, with vertical being slowly performed by the right analog stick (iirc).
As others mention, aim assist is likely to be a factor in what allows players to do that, though.
Eh compared to other console shooters this game feels really bad.
Vertical scale is way off and the acceleration curve feels really wrong.