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[Woorloog]

*sigh*
I really liked RFG (first and the only game in the series i played). Good music, excellent controls, good looking, destruction... Lacked replayablitity and the story was the usual shit but it was fun while it lasted and with refining a sequel could've been AAA game even. IMO. Armageddon (based on demo) did get a couple of things better, the magnet gun was amazing, destruction seemed a tad better (though hard to say) but that's it.. the rest was antithesis of what Guerrilla was. Though i liked the lighting and dark tunnels..
Sad news though not unexpected due Armageddon...

 

[Pie and Beans]

Exactly. It's baffling how this played out. Who's idea was it to shift gears after Guerilla, and why aren't they fired? Or are they?

I always find this interesting. The guy calling the shots on the decision to fritter all that good will and game design, doesn't get fired but just turns up to work on the next project, business as usual. There's so little accountability!

 

[ConradCervantes]

Guerilla was awesome, how Volition went from that to Armageddon perplexes me. A sad day for gaming.

 

[Saty]

Are we sure the 1 million copies for RF:G is not shipped? I'm looking here at the NPD data, in its debut month the game did ~320,000 copies and in its second month it was out of the Top 10.

 

[luxarific]

This one's for you, Mr. Farrell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcUBI-YVRY8

 

[CountAntonius]

Guerrilla was an amazing game that definitely found its audience they just chose to completely ignore everything that made it good with a sequel.

I really can't even be bothered to think what the hell was on their mind during Armageddon. Damn ironic title.

 

[Tobor]

At 1 million copies Guerrilla would have broken even at $40 a copy. They probably wanted to try to make a profit hence changing the game design.

That's my point, it was a horrible call. Polish and enhancement on another open world game was the way to go here. They had a great base to work on.

 

[Tomat]

What a load of bullshit, they have something going with Guerrilla. The singleplay was alright, but the multiplayer was fantastic.

They really should have given that another shot. Didn't Guerrilla sell well, or am I mistaken?

 

[LocoMrPollock]

They said this after part 2 as well. They're gonna let the IP rest and revisit it later, possibly.

Should've went back to the series roots with a FPS. Would've done better.

Guerrilla was great, though.

 

[ToyBroker]

Shame, but what do you expect? Lots of mediocrity since the first one (which was revolutionary with the destruction). I enjoy Guillermo del Toro, so hopefully something awesome will come out of that relationship.


Pan's Labyrinth as a game would be so awesome.

 

[Quicksilver4648]

I was lined up and ready to buy a sequel to Guerrilla. But then it happened. They made Armageddon. I swear, I think they literally made a checklist of everything people liked in RF:G (open world, huge buildings, great multiplayer, outside, not visually dark) and made an effort to not put them in Armageddon. It is a shame they are freezing the franchise due to them being unable to figure out what was fun in their own game, but alas, oh well.

 

[Warm Machine]

That's my point, it was a horrible call. Polish and enhancement on another open world game was the way to go here. They had a great base to work on.

We have seen circumstances where a sequel does worse than the original though and they had the choice of doing it again continuing in a market full of games or making a change into a new market full of games. I would have personally preffered they did a Guerrilla 2. If it the original made even 1.5x its money back it probably would have happened. Between the recent 2 games and the movie no one can really say THQ's marketing didn't put the effort into trying to establish the brand. Their massive gamble didn't pay off and here we are.

I really blame people for not getting Guerrilla when it came out. It did most eveything right in the open world game space and people were mostly apathetic towards it.

 

[Dan Yo]

Also, I'd like to note that he's wrong.

Red Faction found an audience with Guerrilla, and they threw that audience out with Armageddon.

Armageddon certainly wasn't the game that found a niche, it was the game that made it a niche.

Red Faction had also found an audience with the original, and they threw that audience out with Red Faction 2.

Franchises tend to become niche when you make 4 games in a series, and every single one of those games is a completely different game.

Wonder how this affects that Sci Fi series that was supposed to be based on the Red Faction universe. I'm guessing that was canceled a while before this announcement.

 

[ctrayne]

Wonder how this affects that Sci Fi series that was supposed to be based on the Red Faction universe. I'm guessing that was canceled a while before this announcement.

Don't think it was a series, just a movie/mini-series:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051GOB7Q/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[LocoMrPollock]

Wonder how this affects that Sci Fi series that was supposed to be based on the Red Faction universe. I'm guessing that was canceled a while before this announcement.

No, the movie came out and it was terrible. It's doubtful that it will get picked up for a series, which was the plan, if the movie had done well.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

This is a damn shame. The first game holds a spot on my list of favorite games ever, and Guerrilla was a lot of fun too. I blame THQ and Danny Bilson. The guy has this stupid vision of turning every THQ property into some huge multimedia franchise. But everything gets half assed and now Saints Row 3 is being positioned to be next when it gets crushed this fall.

 

[obonicus]

That's my point, it was a horrible call. Polish and enhancement on another open world game was the way to go here. They had a great base to work on.

Yeah, but they probably thought they had a chance to widen their audience with a different approach, and it failed. It's likely that it's just not worth it, by their accounts, to go after the RF:G fanbase. Especially not if subsequent games will be even more expensive than the last (aka polish and enhancement). There's probably no way RF:G would go from performing modestly well to being a major hit as 'RF:G2', not in this gen, at least.

 

[Emitan]

Also, I'd like to note that he's wrong.

Red Faction found an audience with Guerrilla, and they threw that audience out with Armageddon.

Armageddon certainly wasn't the game that found a niche, it was the game that made it a niche.

It got Mirror's Edged. It's much more popular that the publishers believe but they can't figure out what to do with it.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

I enjoyed Red Faction Guerrilla, Armageddon was just forgettable.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Good job removing the open world + revolutionary style atmosphere. We totally needed the time jump, corridors, and aliens. Yep.

 

[BobTheFork]

THQ: The King is dead, long live the King!

*Dear THQ, too often developers and publisher endlessly look for external reason why a series dies or a game fails. Unless you figure out what YOU fucked up, it will not get better.

 

[Mechazawa]

But everything gets half assed and now Saints Row 3 is being positioned to be next when it gets crushed this fall.

Saints Row 3 looks pretty more-of-the-same to me.

But yeah, I'm fine with this. I don't want the Red Faction to "hit it big" be that Armageddon bullshit that stripped out my awesome ass multiplayer.

 

[obonicus]

It got Mirror's Edged. It's much more popular that the publishers believe but they can't figure out what to do with it.

They know how much their games sold, though, so they have a pretty good idea of how popular they are. They might not understand why it's popular, but I think it's more likely that they actively took a risk by trying to court a different audience (and failed).

 

[FyreWulff]

When I started up the Armageddon demo and it didn't even retain all the controller options from Guerilla, I just immediately deleted the demo and wrote the game off because I couldn't even play it.

Seriously, what the hell went on with that game?

 

[Massa]

The open world in Guerrilla was boring as hell. Driving around was bad, and there was too much of it.

Of course, another way to go to fix that would have been to flesh out a more interesting world and have more interesting traversal mechanics.

 

[inky]

THQ should do a Capcom and blame it on their fans /troll

I just hope that inSANE doesn't follow Del Toro's tradition of canned projects and broken promises ='(

 

[Duffyside]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, wondering if THQ would kill off Red Faction because of Armageddon's flop.

Such a shame. Guerrilla was amazing. I think I even put it in my top 5 for this generation. Multiplayer is still unrivaled. You haven't enjoyed games this generation until you've Rhinoed someone off a cliff.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

yep, guerrilla was amazing. will never buy armageddon.

 

[Shaneus]

Red Faction... movie? Clearly it did really well given that I'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF IT.

Uwe Boll?

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Niche or not, the amount of fun RFG caused was unsurpassed by any other next gen game with an attempt to replicate destruction at that scale. Fuck this shit, as good as inSane sounds, cancelling an entire whole franchise is ridiculous.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

Red Faction... movie? Clearly it did really well given that I'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF IT.

Uwe Boll?

would definitely watch a red faction movie by uwe boll

 

[Deadbeat]

Another publisher not understanding why people didnt buy the shitty sequel to the good game they originally made. Amazing.

 

[Fox Mulder]

The open world in Guerrilla was boring as hell. Driving around was bad, and there was too much of it.

Of course, another way to go to fix that would have been to flesh out a more interesting world and have more interesting traversal mechanics.

it was a lifeless world and there was a sharp disconnect between the story that was pushing the whole revolution angle while you did every fucking thing in the entire game. Still, it was pure fun messing with the GeoMod destruction and the creativity it allowed to accomplish tasks. One of my favorite open world games this gen.

They could have done something to improve on the formula, and it's sad to see the wasted potential of the interesting GeoMod stuff. It's something they have to build a game around, which is why they said it wouldn't fit for Saints Row.

 

[Snuggles]

Uwe Boll?

Even worse, it's a SyFy original. I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind would choose to waste 2 hours of their lives with that shit.

 

[Emitan]

Even worse, it's a SyFy original. I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind would choose to waste 2 hours of their lives with that shit.

LOL. No wonder I didn't know it existed.

 

[SafeinSound]

That was quick

 

[ElFly]

That's sad, but honestly, not too terrible.

Guerrilla was a by the book open world game, with an amazing physics engine. The technology was ahead of its time, but it meant that buildings have to look like shit.

Next gen that kind of destructibility should be more feasible with good looking buildings, which is why devs aren't betting on that kind of gameplay right now.

 

[Teknoman]

Wonder if people will think inSANE is related to inFAMOUS...

 

[SapientWolf]

Another publisher not understanding why people didnt buy the shitty sequel to the good game they originally made. Amazing.

Yet Mercs 2 sold over 1.9 mil. Doesn't seem like quality counts for everything.

 

[Deadbeat]

Yet Mercs 2 sold over 1.9 mil. Doesn't seem like quality counts for everything.

Never said it does. Just implied this isnt the first time a franchise died this way.

 

[bengraven]

Also, I'd like to note that he's wrong.

Red Faction found an audience with Guerrilla, and they threw that audience out with Armageddon.

Armageddon certainly wasn't the game that found a niche, it was the game that made it a niche.

Yes, they sell a decent amount of units and are critically happy with Guerilla.
Then they fail both financially and critically with Armageddon.

"Franchise dead".

Yet Mercs 2 sold over 1.9 mil. Doesn't seem like quality counts for everything.

True and it's sad that they would kill a great franchise off so early.

At least Just Cause 2 is a worthy sequel to Mercs 1.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Sad, but if they cool it for now, take time to think up some new ideas, and then give us a real Red Faction: Guerrilla 2 on the next gen of consoles, I'll be ok with this. I don't need a new Red Faction every year.

 

[Jintor]

Also, I'd like to note that he's wrong.

Red Faction found an audience with Guerrilla, and they threw that audience out with Armageddon.

Armageddon certainly wasn't the game that found a niche, it was the game that made it a niche.

I pretty much agree with this.

 

[NullPointer]

Yet Mercs 2 sold over 1.9 mil. Doesn't seem like quality counts for everything.

Sometimes people buy games before they know they're shit, especially in this age of pre-order bonuses and the like. I don't know if buyer's remorse is a metric we actually have access to.

Also, Mercenaries 2, on paper, was exactly what a lot of Mercs fans would have wished for. Its not like Pandemic got rid of the open world - they just released a buggy mess of a game with some pretty weird design decisions.

Unless there is another Mercs 2 you're talking about.

At least Just Cause 2 is a worthy sequel to Mercs 1.

In many ways yeah, but I'd still love to see another Mercenaries game done right.

 

[Foil]

I still think the first game was the best the series ever had. Reminded me a lot of Half-Life in terms of the game style. I still play it once or twice a year. Fantastic game. Not sure how they managed to follow that up with RF2...

RFG was very good for what it was. Everything else sadly was trash. I still have no idea what they were thinking with Armageddon and that downloadable game. Those are two ways you kill a franchise.

 

[Totobeni]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, wondering if THQ would kill off Red Faction because of Armageddon's flop.

Such a shame. Guerrilla was amazing. I think I even put it in my top 5 for this generation. Multiplayer is still unrivaled. You haven't enjoyed games this generation until you've Rhinoed someone off a cliff.

Pretty much, best fucking competitive mode this generation,they should have expand it and not removing it ( hell even PSN/XBLA based on the online modes with more maps will be amazing).

Hope Gamasutra or other sites get some former ex Volition members or producers to do a postmortem on this game and tell us who was really behind the stupid decision of turning it to a boring corridor shooter.

 

[Neuromancer]

I know he was. My point is that I don't think anybody here actually wants "Red Faction 5". Is anybody a fan of the franchise, the character, or the lore? I've played the first three Red Faction games, and I can't tell you what the plot was in any of them.

Well the idea of going to Mars and blowing shit up (whether it's the terrain or the buildings), was, is, and always will be, awesome.

 

[Neuromancer]

Good old focused story and narrative getting in the way of good gameplay. That's what you guys wanted right? More focus on the story with "tighter" gameplay?

Good show Volition.

Yep. They have only themselves to blame for this one.

 

[NullPointer]

Overthrowing "the man" by mobilizing the populace and laying a smackdown to soldiers and buildings alike with the swinging hammer of justice is pretty damn awesome too.

 

[Colasante]

Wish a real sequel to Red Faction II had been made. One of my all time favorite FPSs.