killer rin
Member
My thoughts are exactly this
-
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Tim Sweeney: MS plans to make Steam 'progressively worse' & buggy via Win10 updates
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
good article
I didnt even know sideloading was on by default, that makes his argument even more flawed.
/thread
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Yeah, but y'all are all shills, so #irrelevant
True, true
Yeah, but y'all are all shills, so #irrelevant
I love the big screen, so fresh and so clean
Its all in my dreams, it makes me wanna scream
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
Games so crazy, they totally amaze me
Gotta ask my mom for one, fo' shizzy
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
All I want for Xmas is my UWP, when I play when im walking down the street. All I want for Xmas is my UWP, tell my mom and dad get one for me.
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
UWP
Haha, was not expecting this:
Not often you run into a Larry Niven reference. One of the greatest to ever do it.
BIGWORM
Member
Throw some beats on that and you're hitting No. 1 on the Billboards.
Welfare
Member
Yeah, but y'all are all shills, so #irrelevant
Yeah, can't wait for the MS paycheck. $0.00 just for thinking that they wouldn't risk another anti-trust lawsuit and that they are comic villains.
spazimoose
Member
Hardly. Peter Bright does most of Ars and Wireds Microsoft "reporting" hardly objective and doesn't even present anything differently then this thread to be perfectly honest.
It's a real shame what Conde Nast did to Ars, Wired and Reddit. Conde Nast and Microsoft have quite a history together actually.
i disagree with bright plenty (including on uwp) but he's no shill
Can you smell that? Smells like conspiracy!
Yup
Smh... Sweeney is LITERALLY making stuff up, and this article is biased?
The person peddling the story of a diabolical plan that he ADMITS he has no actual knowledge of is ti be believed w/o question. The guy with the citations is lying
Ok... Smh
Gold medals for all the gymnasts in here.
Bits N Pieces
Member
He gives some very clear points which are based on actual facts for why what's in OP is just complete trash. I don't get how you came to this conclusion if you actually read it.
LordRaptor
Member
"I'm not PAID to be heavily biased towards MS, I just do so at every opportunity because I am a huge fanboy" isn't exactly a teflon-coated deflection
It's sarcasm.
If we are going to take the 'bias' angle against a guy who is providing citations and facts, can we at least acknowledge the fact that Sweeney has devolved into making shit up in support of his message- a message he admits is based on fear of potential, not facts.
That doesn't exactly scream objective
LordRaptor
Member
I mean... I already covered it a few pages back, but the point I was making seems to have been lost amidst demands of seeing the
MS are making moves that are damaging the PC gaming space.
We can all agree that MS would like to own and operate a closed garden.
From Tim Sweeneys perspective, the damaging moves they are making are efforts to wall that garden.
It doesn't actually matter if those moves are intended to do that, or the side effect that Big Corporate Poppa MS doesn't trust Edgy Cool Kid Xbox Division enough to let them have what they probably actually want - a dedicated Xbox branded software store.
The moves are still damaging.
Calling out MS to try and make them stop pulling those moves makes sense.
Bits N Pieces
Member
lol
I don't think anyone really knows for sure and there's stuff like Battlenet that only sells Blizzard's products and nothing else (and stuff like Uplay which you need to run when you buy a Ubisoft game on Steam), but of the digital storefronts it's almost certainly by far and away the largest.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Calm headed approach to this topic.
But in Apple's case, you have a Mac App Store but still can download apps and games outside the store if you want. Even when the developer is not verified. You have those three options in the Preferences menu on macOS... So if that MS theory is right, they'd close completely the OS with the Windows Store being the only way to download App and games, like iOS. Not the same in desktop OS...
I don't think he was referring to the article but talking about you and a few others. And as far as the writer don't know who he is but Fox news also has citations and facts. Not saying this guy is Fox News or not but our biases always color how we view situations on either side.
Any company would like to have a walled garden. It's a cash cow. The existence of motive itself is not cause to crucify, which is exactly what's happening here.
It's perfectly ok to make expectations known. It's ok to voice concerns.
It's one thing to criticize unfavorable things that are taking place. But making up shit to drum up support of your criticsms is not ok. It actually takes away from your message, and provides as distraction from the real issues and damages credibility. It's also incredibly unprofessional.
That said there are obvious limitations with UWP when it comes to gaming specifically. But most application developers will have everything they need in the platform. Also, the notion that MS will be controlling distribution has been debunked and needs to die. the notion that this is all part of some elaborate scheme to make the Win10 store the best place to by games by degrading Steam is absolute madness. Why would MS torpedo their entire consumer market advantage in order to corner PC gaming? It doesnt even make sense finacially.
If Sweeney wants to help direct the industry along the right path, he should do it with level headed discussion and debate. Not fear mongering.
LordRaptor
Member
Well, okay, but if MS want to contribute to PC gaming - a space they have actively harmed with their presence in the very recent past - breaking a ton of stuff and then saying "Oh, we'll get around to fixing that in 6 months or so" is 100% not the way to do it.
Imagine if MS had said something like "Hey, we have a new idea of how Xbox Live should work, that isn't any better than what you currently have, and in fact is a whole lot worse right now, but if we keep working on it it will end up just slightly worse in the long run. P.S. we just implemented it, we'll let you know when you can expect to play online again at a press conference in 3 months, and at that press conference we'll tell you the first steps to make shit usable will be ready 3 months after that".
That would be crazy, right? Almost like they have just utter contempt for any users of Xbox live?
Because that's why people are mad.
What I'm saying is, we have a message from a guy who has no citations and no facts. He has also MADE UP stuff to support his message. And as part of THIS discussion we have a comment from a guy who has both citations and facts.
the argument seems to be the second guy shouldn't be trusted because he's biased.
That argument is biased.
In terms of gaming, how has UWP effected YOU so far? What has it broken on your computer.
Stillmatic
Member
As a consumer I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Him saying what he has doesn't hurt us, it hurts MS and possibly himself. If what he says is actually MS intent, then that will hurt us all. By speaking out it's going to put a microscope on MS, which is going to make it hard for MS to get away with what he suggests without the industry noticing. Who cares if it's an assumption or not. If he's wrong, things will continue as normal and Sweeneys rep may take a hit in the eyes of some. What happens if he's right?
Yeah, that's a dangerous way to operate. Throwing allegations at people, without any sort of evidence is ethically wrong. Sure I won't be adversely effected if he ends up being wrong. And I will be adversely effected if his completely made up story ends up being right. But that doesn't make it ok to make up shit.
Let's I've been robbed, and the guy that robbed me gets 5 years in prison. 5 years later I see him walking down the street. I could call the police and tell them, "help, I see a guy, and he's getting ready to rob someone." There IS a possibility that this man is going to rob someone, but I have NOTHING to base that on other than fear and knowledge of past transgressions. By calling the police, I could potentially cause him to be harmed without reason, or things could go smoothly and he be let free after questioning, or my guess could have been miracously right. still, ethically, I've done a bad thing.
He can "put the microscope on MS" without telling fairy tales. FUD is generally frowned upon in most circles.
If his intent is to put a microscope on MS, why not offer proof to what he's saying?
Because "I have no proof but I might be right" has never cut it anywhere, especially when you make an accusation like that, especially when he's been ironically supporting iOS pretty hard, and especially when all his concerns are impossible anyways.
Discussing the possibilities is fine, but if John Carmack suddenly went "Nintendo wants to smuggle cocaine through the NX everyone, theyre trying to! Theyve certainly done it before!" Then as that article states, he's intelligent, he's got a respectable reputation but citation needed heavily
LordRaptor
Member
Directly?
Nothing. I don't intend on supporting the initiative.
Indirectly?
I don't know.
I do know that Remedys financial stability must have taken a hit along with their reputation, which affects potential future products.
I do know that MS have been spending vast amounts of time and resources to try and make fetch a thing, time and resources that would have been allocated elsewhere, possibly for more general benefits.
MS might legally be considered a person under the conceit of the legal fiction that is 'The Corporation', but in real terms they have no honour to besmirch that needs must be defended
e:
Also of course, whenever the subject of anti-MS FUD comes up, well, the old adage "live by the sword, die by the sword" is never far from mind.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Remedy are currently making two new games for their partners, what a terrible predicament they have found themselves in!
Microsoft are not spending money on what I deem important therefore it is not important and is in fact harmful to the gaming industry as a whole . . .
You aint putting up a compelling arguement here dude.
So, you hammer on about how UWP is the worst thing to of ever graced PC gaming in every thread, yet it's not effected you directly? Wow.
LordRaptor
Member
Its barely affected anyone directly because nobody wants it, but like GFWL before it, it only takes a couple of publishers drinking the kool-aid to have massive adverse ripple effects.
(I know this is your attempt at a gotcha for me calling you out for defending MS when you admit you are unaffected by any actions they take)
I'm sorry you seemed to be implying that UWP has broken something.
UWP didn't break QB. It's a bad port... Bad ports have existed long before UWP.
So at this point millions of gamers are able to use their win10 devices to play games without issues and supporting UWP remains completely optional. And there is no evidence that this will change anytime soon, should lie to consumers and tell them it's impending.
Also, since MS is a corporation the harm of making unsubstantiated allegations should be ignored.
Also, it's ok to spread FUD so long as it's anti-MS
Also, if MS choose not to spend their $ on something that directly benefits Lord Raptor, they are indirectly adversely affecting him.
Got it
Got it
LordRaptor
Member
That's not what I said. That's not what that adage means.
And yes, the time to raise concerns about anti-competitive behaviour is when that behaviour can be curtailed or prevented, not after it has already happened and its too late to do anything about but you have unquestionable evidence that, yep, turned out it was a hugely anti-consumer dick move that just got pulled, glad we can now verify that to be one hundred percent accurate now we are all fucked.
I wouldn't really say this since it's UWP which has driven the Play Anywhere initiave which has made a lot of people happy, including myself.
I like this personally as I'll be building a gaming PC when I buy my first house soon. To know I'll have all my 1st party games which I've bought and good cross-play is great.
Tell us more about how a company attempting vertical integration with an inferior software standard is a completely harmless proposition for PC customers. Hot on the heels on their previous failed attempts in this marketplace, which effectively resulted in 3rd party software becoming abandonware, attempts to monetise services offered for free by their competitors, and the routine arbitrary locking of API features and software behind OS upgrades.
You can raise concerns about something without making shit up.
"I'm concerned about UWP. As support for the platform increases MS could potentially degrade Steam in an effort to make the Win10 store look like the better option. We as consumers and developers should make it clear to them that will not be tolerated."
VS
"MS is planning to destroy Steam by 2021. I can't prove it, but I know it's happening because Netscape. therefore, no one should use anything UWP ever"
Show me where I said anything like that
LordRaptor
Member
You're oversimplifying an argument into what you want to respond to;
Netscape has only been brought up in this topic by MS defenders by using it as a "NOT THE 90s ANYMORE BRO LOLOLOL" deflection and is not mentioned anywhere in the OP.
Tim Sweeneys claims about degrading the Steam experience are an answer to a specific question about "How" MS could topple Steam as the popular choice.
Also, as point of note again - currently steam community features are broken when using a UWA game.
Netscape has only been brought up in this topic by MS defenders by using it as a "NOT THE 90s ANYMORE BRO LOLOLOL" deflection and is not mentioned anywhere in the OP.
Tim Sweeneys claims about degrading the Steam experience are an answer to a specific question about "How" MS could topple Steam as the popular choice.
Also, as point of note again - currently steam community features are broken when using a UWA game.
First of all, you need to kill it with this "defenders" bullshit. I don't KNOW MS' full gameplan. Presumeably few outside of MS does- Sweeney ADMITS he does not. No one is defending MS, because there is currently NOTHING to defend. We have nothing to say this shit will or will not happen. People are merely pointing out the fact that Sweeney is making up shit to push is message. He directly alluded to MS pushing updates to Windows that degraded its competitors functionality. HE BROUGHT UP NETSCAPE.
Sweeney's comments about Steam detailed a specific plot and timeframe to snuff out an opponent. It wasn't hypothetical.
And to your point of note- UWP apps do not "break" features of Steam. UWP apps simply cannot support some of Steams features at the present.
Sweeney's comments are odd in being so specific. If he doesn't give the evidence there is no way to understand it as a specific plan rather than a hypothetical, unless he's playing a game of chicken based on something he heard.
On the last point - UWP is never going to allow complete freedom for users to modify their purchased games in ways they see fit. That is by design. All they can offer is restricted access that a developer mandates, which will not encompass the ability to support a game once the developer abandons it or remove broken DRM or ensure perpetuity and compatibility in future. That is a feature of Win32 that can be applied as a feature of the many existing PC store fronts and indeed is a large part of how those stores function and implement such features, and that openess has informed how they have evolved. Now we see more features implemented based on unsanctioned modification than ever before.
If said "MS could" it would be hypothetical. Saying "MS will" implies he either has direct knowledge but refuses to provide evidence for whatever reason OR he's being sensationalist. Considering he clearly has no issues with confronting head on, I can't imagine that he's withholding valid proof. So I have to assume it's pure sensationalism.
On the last point, yes, mods represent the biggest issue with UWP. But Lord and I were discussing whether or not UWP "breaks" steam community features like overlays.
individual games not supporting a specific feature =! breaking that feature.
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