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[DerZuhälter]

Eh, I've never considered the final scene to be a breaking or lack of trust. Ellie clearly knows that Joel is lying but she accepts it because at this point she cares more about being with Joel than knowing the truth. And while it's hard to judge a scene from second hand accounts, I doubt she'd be harboring the same grudge four years later, the "distance" reported would likely be a part of the teenage angst she would be going through at that point as opposed to being singularly about some lie told years earlier.

I think that

Spoiler

"Okay" is Ellie accepting that she can't trust Joel and has to do her own thing, or something along those lines. It's probably more complicated than that, but that's kind of the conclusion I came to

.

I love how people still argue about the end.
Sure, Druckmann knew what he was trying to imply with the scene exactly, but as a viewer and from Ellie's character arc, we can't really tell what she thinks.

Yes, she wants and wishes for a cure for the infection just as much as anyone else would in this world. And yes, the "I'm still waiting my turn" speech at the end, implies that she maybe doesn't hold her own life in such high regards as Joel does (just count how many time he uses permutations of the word "survival") but the fact that she dreads starting the conversation and asking these question shows she is just as conflicting about everything just as the viewer/player is.
Her biggest fear, was never dying, but being abandoned, even if it might not always has been by choice. Ending up alone scared her.
If she acutally sees through Joel's lie, it would be terrible but also soothing at the same time. He didn't forsake her. She is more worth to him than a cure, eventually maybe survival itself in this hostile enviroment. And this should be more worth to her than "trust" or the truth, given what was shown of her.

It's another interpretation, one that with the characterization given in the game, might be just as valid, even if not the one intentioned by Druckmann. Unless he spits it out word for word, you just don't know.

 

[Vuze]

Sincerely hope somebody recorded this :/
Wanna see it, sounds good.

 

[mrklaw]

Joel and Ellie should be done. If Sony would demand a sequel or not, and I don't believe they would, they'd never require Joel and Ellie to return, and I hope Druckley decide to move on and highlight new characters.

The films people cite as being like the game, No Country, The Road, Children of Men, they all end abruptly and saw no continuation, nor should this.

The IP is meaningless, a sequel can mean anything from starting seconds after the last game to being completely and utterly unrelated in every way.

I think one problem is that without Joel and Ellie, there isn't much of an IP. The surrounding world is interesting but not that different from any other zombie/post-apocalyptic world. The fireflies are fairly two dimensional in TLoU - not because they aren't well written, more because they aren't given the time to flesh them out. So much of the story is centred around the two main characters that it pushes other elements into the background.

From the sound of the epilogue, Ellie is now 18 and Joel is at least dating someone. So maybe that is a hint about Ellie becoming more independent and starting out on her own? Having said that, I don't think I'm interested in an 'Ellie is all growed up now' game - what would it bring us? I enjoyed Ellie in the context of the story she was in.

 

[mrklaw]

I love how people still argue about the end.
Sure, Druckmann knew what he was trying to imply with the scene exactly, but as a viewer and from Ellie's character arc, we can't really tell what she thinks.

Yes, she wants and wishes for a cure for the infection just as much as anyone else would in this world. And yes, the "I'm still waiting my turn" speech at the end, implies that she maybe doesn't hold her own life in such high regards as Joel does (just count how many time he uses permutations of the word "survival") but the fact that she dreads starting the conversation and asking these question shows she is just as conflicting about everything just as the viewer/player is.
Her biggest fear, was never dying, but being abandoned, even if it might not always has been by choice. Ending up alone scared her.
If she acutally sees through Joel's lie, it would be terrible but also soothing at the same time. He didn't forsake her. She is more worth to him than a cure, eventually maybe survival itself in this hostile enviroment. And this should be more worth to her than "trust" or the truth, given what was shown of her.

It's another interpretation, one that with the characterization given in the game, might be just as valid, even if not the one intentioned by Druckmann. Unless he spits it out word for word, you just don't know.

But Joel wasn't necessarily lying. They didn't know they would get a cure from Ellie. But they did know that

Spoiler

what they were goi to do would kill her

. That is enough uncertainty to say 'fuck it'. While Ellie might think Joel lied to her, she obviously doesn't have any context. There is still an opportunity in the future for things to develop and have a way

Spoiler

to extract the parasite without killing the host, or at least sampling it.maybe hooking up with more organised doctors rather than the fireflies?

So that vagueness for me runs in multiple layers. We don't know that Ellie could have provided the cure. We don't know if a Ellie knows that Joel lied. We don't know that the ending means no cure will ever be discovered

Spoiler

i think the fireflies mention having found other immune people before, so they'll find another

 

[Zen]

They

Spoiler

never found anyone remotely like ellie, they found people whom were somewhat resistant and the effect happened more slowly.

 

[SkullHydra]

It kills me that I may never be able to see this. ;_;

 

[Zen]

I was really hoping for Ellie and Joel again

 

[Elrina]

I think one problem is that without Joel and Ellie, there isn't much of an IP. The surrounding world is interesting but not that different from any other zombie/post-apocalyptic world. The fireflies are fairly two dimensional in TLoU - not because they aren't well written, more because they aren't given the time to flesh them out. So much of the story is centred around the two main characters that it pushes other elements into the background.

I agree with this. I fully believe they're capable of producing another amazing game with or without Joel and Ellie. But the TLoU is what it is because of Joel and Ellie. It was their story, and the world they lived in, without them, isn't nearly as interesting. The game, the IP, is about them, not about their world.

I am happy with where TLoU ended (although it will now nag me forever that I missed this epilogue, and I would have rather not known it existed than now know a piece of their story exists that I wasn't able to experience). I will be, more or less, satisfied if they moved on to a new IP again and didn't make a sequel. But if they do make another game with the TLoU IP, I would want it to include them.

I agree with those who say that it should focus primarily on Ellie, and let Joel only be present early on or through flashbacks, or maybe present as a supporting character and introduce someone new for Ellie's next story. But I don't really care enough about their world (by itself) to want to play a game in it focused on completely new characters. If they're going to move on from them completely, then do it with a new IP, not with TLoU (2).

 

[Drencrom]

Reposting

What the hell? Why didn't they film the epilogue scene?

Comes off as a nice fuck you to all the fans that couldn't see it live. Really, reading impressions of a scene is the last of Joel and Ellie we get? Seriously...

 

[robotrock]

Here is the TRUE epologiologue to TLOU

Good

 

[EdibleKnife]

Reposting

More and more I dislike this backroom special show type thing that goes on but this one seems especially messed. Maybe they had it planned to include in the remastered version, but then why spoil it at all by showing it at the live show? Meh. Whatever.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Please Neil and Naughty Dog, dont re-visit Joel or Ellie. Their story is near perfect the way it is and ended.

Go with something new, in a new setting perhaps, with new characters that will allow you to do different things story wise. I cannot wait to see where they go with TLOU2

Yeah. Part of me just wants to dive back into their journey together no matter what it is. The other half just says ... yeah this is freakin perfection that needs to be left alone and just celebrated for what it is.

Neil and ND did a brilliant job with the story, the game, the character development, everything. Brilliance. Masterpiece. GOTG. One of the best of all time. The epilogue scene sounds genuine and heartfelt and moving and well ... just what you would expect. Awesome that Troy sang the song and played the guitar.

 

[thecouncil]

Neil said that this will never ever be released, and asked that no one film it. It was pretty cool.

...why?

 

[Kittenwithbeer]

It can have a sequel it just shouldn't have Joel and Ellie in it

Pretty much spot on with this IMO. Don't sully your work by forcing in a story that doesn't have to be there. Joel and Ellie's story was perfect start to finish. To expand on that for a sequel when there doesn't have to be one would ruin it. You told your story with them, Naughty Dog, now let them be. The movie idea is already a little mehhh for me, but I guess that can't be helped.

 

[Vashetti]

Joel AND Ellie is done.

They will continue with Ellie going forward. Druckmann says in the Grounded doc that he see TLOU as being Ellie's origin story and intended to make her into a female action hero.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

I understand that people are frustrated that it's not being publically released, but it came across as something they decided to share just to release what they cut out. Everything that has been shared is basically what happened, I could understand more frustrations if there was a cutscene or something, but it was never even filmed in intention of being in the game.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Reposting

Honestly it's not a big deal that this scene only existed in the theatre and no one else will get to see it performed by the original actors. This stuff happens all the time in actual theatre. A show comes and goes, and it exists only for the time it's on stage, and becomes only a memory afterwards.

People are so hung up on having everything recorded and accessible. They bring cellphones to concerts to record it when they should be enjoying the music live. Isn't it exciting and special that a moment can exist only as an ephemeral experience? You are getting to see something that will never, ever, be replicated in the exact same way as you experienced it.

 

[Jack cw]

Here is the TRUE epologiologue to TLOU:

Hahaha! I really love you!

 

[Drencrom]

Honestly it's not a big deal that this scene only existed in the theatre and no one else will get to see it performed by the original actors. This stuff happens all the time in actual theatre. A show comes and goes, and it exists only for the time it's on stage, and becomes only a memory afterwards.

People are so hung up on having everything recorded and accessible. They bring cellphones to concerts to record it when they should be enjoying the music live. Isn't it exciting and special that a moment can exist only as an ephemeral experience? You are getting to see something that will never, ever, be replicated in the exact same way as you experienced it.

So the reason not to record it is just to make the people in the audience feel special, huh? It's already a one time thing and the audience are the only people who will see the live performance.

Having the epilogue not recorded when tons of fans will never experience it is shitty.

I really want to hear the song Joel made for Ellie :/

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

I like both the epilogue and that it's a goodbye to them.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Get this please in the OP.

I want to hear the song, Troy is a great singer.

 

[Fracas]

Done! Wish I could've been there

 

[RedAssedApe]

Here is the TRUE epologiologue to TLOU:

Errr...also...spoilers

 

[Sacul64GC]

I am really not happy about this. Its supposed to be a goodbye to Joel and Ellie but we are not worthy to see it since we did not go to a panel? This better be on ether the PS4 game or released on Youtube.

 

[Vashetti]

I am really not happy about this. Its suposed to be a goodbye to Joel and Ellie but we are not worthy to see it since we did not go to a panel? This better be on ether the PS4 game or released on Youtube.

Yeah, after thinking about this for most of the day I think it's really selfish of them.

 

[Marcel]

Yeah, after thinking about this for most of the day I think it's really selfish of them.

It's so precious and special that you, the non-performance watching fan, are not allowed to see it. It's a great message to send for sure.

 

[Freeman]

Good. The sequel would benefit more from other characters (even tho I wouldn't pass on a sequel with older Ellie and old man Joel). I hope that they show up in the sequel even if its just a cameo.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Reposting

I say we burn every single photo, video or audio of any kind of live shows. Didn't get to watch it, for a particular reason? Tough luck.

 

[Kinyou]

YEEES

Don't break this promise Neil!

Meh, it can go either way. Sometimes it's amazing to have a direct sequel, sometimes isn't.

If ND can cook up a Terminator 2 then no one should stop them

 

[Enco]

Don't see any reason why they wont release this other than to get fans to talk about it.

 

[Hero Prinny]

I agree with this. I fully believe they're capable of producing another amazing game with or without Joel and Ellie. But the TLoU is what it is because of Joel and Ellie. It was their story, and the world they lived in, without them, isn't nearly as interesting. The game, the IP, is about them, not about their world.

I am happy with where TLoU ended (although it will now nag me forever that I missed this epilogue, and I would have rather not known it existed than now know a piece of their story exists that I wasn't able to experience). I will be, more or less, satisfied if they moved on to a new IP again and didn't make a sequel. But if they do make another game with the TLoU IP, I would want it to include them.

I agree with those who say that it should focus primarily on Ellie, and let Joel only be present early on or through flashbacks, or maybe present as a supporting character and introduce someone new for Ellie's next story. But I don't really care enough about their world (by itself) to want to play a game in it focused on completely new characters. If they're going to move on from them completely, then do it with a new IP, not with TLoU (2).

I'd rather not have a sequel but if they do I'd rather have a completely new cast and play through their story.

 

[Marcel]

Meh, it can go either way. Sometimes it's amazing to have a direct sequel, sometimes isn't.

If ND can cook up a Terminator 2 then no one should stop them

If the TLOU2 is essentially Terminator 2, sign me up. Get this big hoss with his feelings outta here and make way for unlimited shotgun ammo and car chases.

Don't see any reason why they wont release this other than to get fans to talk about it.

Druckmann wants it to feel more important than it actually is and he's stiffing loyal fans in the process. I certainly don't worship TLOU (see my post history) but many do and it's unfortunate they won't get to see something because reasons.

 

[Exploratory]

A goodbye to Joel and Ellie we never get to see? Lame.

 

[Jobbs]

I don't fully understand some peoples' desire to not have a sequel or not see either character again.

a sequel about ellie would be a natural progression. there's nothing more to do with joel, but in the case of ellie, druckmann has said that this game was the "origin story of a new female action hero".

I view the statement of "goodbye to joel and ellie" as pretty ambiguous. it could mean goodbye to them as a unit just as easily as it could mean goodbye to each of them for good.

The first game stands on its own well enough, and it's a story equally about joel as it is about ellie. joel's arc opens and closes during the course of that one game. ellie's arc, however, is more one of awakening and realizing independence. It's an opening note. There's more to do and including her in a sequel would not have to be forced. It's natural. it could easily go either way.

 

[T.O.P]

I'm extremely salty that i'll never be able to see it

 

[StevePharma]

This is a trend that is finally catching on here in the U.S. (in a popular way) with shows like American Horror Story and True Detective; these shows are more anthologies in the way the seasons are presented than direct sequels/continuations and I would love to see that trend trickle down into the way some developers approach the development of their IPs. I think TLoU is a wonderful candidate for that.

I agree on this. After playing the latest episode of Walking Dead I think they should've left that story closed with Season 1. Clementine's adventures are really lame in season 2 and knowing there will be a season 3 makes me all the more wary. The overall story loses its impact somewhat on me. I can go straight up into 'Star Wars prequel denial of existence mode' but that doesn't change the fact that the original is tarnished some way to me because the continuation of the story is not as good as I would have hoped.

I hope the story of TLoU will be confined to last year's game. A lot of people wanted Ish's story for the DLC, which would take different characters in the same setting, and allow for a different kind of storytelling. Then again, you might get that Empire Strikes Back Wampa syndrome where the imagination is actually a better storyteller than anyone could ever realize on screen, and when it actually IS realized on screen, it looks like ass.

Even though the TV show True Detective has standalone, season confined stories, the second season has enormous shoes to fill because the performances of McConaughey and Harrelson were incredible in season 1. People were basically screaming for a direct sequel season with them after season 1 ended, but the main story and exploration of the characters were pretty much told. I feel TLoU is in that same boat.

Whether Naughty Dog decides to continue the story of TLoU or chooses an entirely different story in the same universe, both will have its pros and cons. Personally, I hope that they choose a different story so my feelings on the first game won't be as 'tarnished' when the sequel would not meet expectations. Then again, I would rather not have a sequel at all, but in today's market you should expect a follow-up product to something that sold well and was critically acclaimed.

 

[neverknowsbest]

Glad to see Ellie still hasn't softened to joel after what he did. He does not deserve a new ~daughter~ and she has no need of a pathologically lying monster for a father.

Showing how she grows completely into her own realizes and surpasses Joels limitations (and ultimate has to put him down when she shoots him in the head) would be an interest story.

What the fuck? Holy overreaction.

My read of the description is that Ellie is distant because she loves Joel. She's vaguely jealous that Joel is talking about marrying someone, not because she's sexually interested in him, but because she's afraid of losing him. It's like if a father divorces and then marries a new woman, there is always tension between the stepmother and children because of battles for attention and priorities.

I am surprised at how many people took the ending of TLOU to indicate a relationship-breaking mistrust between Joel and Ellie. I saw it as the sort of ambiguous mistrust that arises when a parent or other loved one does something "for your own good," that you didn't want. You know they did something against your wishes, but you also know they did it to help you. I've always come out of those situations feeling more loved. Love is more than giving someone everything they want.

 

[Vodh]

SURE, HAVE AN AMAZING PERFORMANCE AND NEVER EVER SHOW IT TO ANYONE WHO WASN'T THERE, THAT'S TOTALLY FINE, NOT LIKE ANY OF US WOULD WANT TO SEE IT ANYWAYS.

 

[Aureon]

So, nail in the coffin of the story?
Good.
Bring on a spiritual sequel for TloU, not a direct sequel.

 

[Marcel]

So, nail in the coffin of the story?
Good.
Bring on a spiritual sequel for TloU, not a direct sequel.

It's a cross-media franchise for Sony now so keep dreaming. They are going to milk the sucker bone dry.

 

[iNvid02]

So, nail in the coffin of the story?
Good.
Bring on a spiritual sequel for TloU, not a direct sequel.

maybe, maybe not. a goodbye to "joel and ellie" could mean the sequel may follow an older ellie with joel out of the picture. like some others have said these two characters the game leans so heavily on is what makes it pretty special, abandoning both of them seems crazy, even though it does feel like a complete story.

 

[Amir0x]

Meh, it can go either way. Sometimes it's amazing to have a direct sequel, sometimes isn't.

If ND can cook up a Terminator 2 then no one should stop them

It can go either way for some stories. Last of Us with Joel and Ellie is a story which cannot go either way without significantly devaluing the story in the first game. If they make a direct sequel, they will have to fill in many blanks that were previously challenging unanswered questions for the audience. Those questions were what made the ending so effective.

 

[Jobbs]

maybe, maybe not. a goodbye to "joel and ellie" could mean the sequel may follow an older ellie with joel out of the picture. like some others have said these two characters the game leans so heavily on is what makes it pretty special, abandoning both of them seems crazy, even though it does feel like a complete story.

I fully expect this. Imagine being ND. You've created an incredibly popular, resonant character in Ellie. The first game portrays her rise to independence. (again, Neil Druckmann himself said this game was Ellie's origin story)

You have *every reason in the world* to make the sequel about her, and no real reason not to other than a vague sense that -- maybe if the game isn't as good as the first one, it'll somehow tarnish her legacy or something like that -- which doesn't amount to dollars and cents. A popular character that makes total sense to return to IS dollars and cents.

This is a game that sold millions of copies. Ellie will be back. I'd bet money on it (anyone want to bet money on it?).

 

[Jomjom]

Is this epilogue scene considered canon?

 

[MattyG]

Here is the TRUE epologiologue to TLOU:

I'm laughing my ass off over here, and someone just asked me what I'm laughing about.

"Well you see, there's this 40-60 year old guy and this 14 year old girl..."

 

[schaft0620]

Wait a second, there was UC4 gameplay?

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Wait a second, there was UC4 gameplay?

lol no.

 

[Dice//]

But Joel wasn't necessarily lying. They didn't know they would get a cure from Ellie. But they did know that

Spoiler

what they were goi to do would kill her

. That is enough uncertainty to say 'fuck it'. While Ellie might think Joel lied to her, she obviously doesn't have any context. There is still an opportunity in the future for things to develop and have a way

Spoiler

to extract the parasite without killing the host, or at least sampling it.maybe hooking up with more organised doctors rather than the fireflies?

So that vagueness for me runs in multiple layers. We don't know that Ellie could have provided the cure. We don't know if a Ellie knows that Joel lied. We don't know that the ending means no cure will ever be discovered

Spoiler

i think the fireflies mention having found other immune people before, so they'll find another

Exactly

Spoiler

I doubt a vaccination could come from "something they find in the brain". That just sounds like dubious medical science if they were at all being realistic about it... IIRC wouldn't cures be more likely found in blood or immune systems?

 

[Spine_Ripper]

Wait a second, there was UC4 gameplay?

What? No. I was there and like I said, Uncharted was never even name-dropped lol.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Not sure if you guys saw in the other thread but I think Geoff said the scene was written only recently so it was just something special for the audience so I'm not to shaken up about it not being put online.