ZombieSupaStar
Member
weird, I thought Torment would have been easier than Wasteland 2.
With Wasteland 2, it was their first CRPG, and fully 3D.
With Wasteland 2, it was their first CRPG, and fully 3D.
I don't see why delay of the game is an issue.
What's up with Bard's Tale?
That's the nature of game/movie/book/TV/etc, development. Things change. You're basically asking the devs to predict the exact state, scope, and design of the finished game years in advance.This defence only works if there wasn't a kickstarter with stretch goals promising this. Those stretch goals were there to make people pay more and to have more people back.
Imagine backing or upping your pledge because you fell in love with the concept of that companion only for it to get cut later.
Torment is a completely different ballpark. And is Wasteland a CRPG? It always seem more XCOM + RPG to me, major focus on combatweird, I thought Torment would have been easier than Wasteland 2.
With Wasteland 2, it was their first CRPG, and fully 3D.
Problem with Bard's Tale is mostly that even InXile seemed to forget they even kick-started it at times. Unlike Wasteland 3 who's fig campaign was launched in November last year the game doesn't even have it's won website to promote the game and the small single page for the project on inXile website is half filled up with crowd founding information and weekly contributions to get even more money for a game they can barely bother to talk about.
It's not just that their games get delayed but that they keep launching new crowd founding campaigns before they complete their already existing ones. They have three kick starter games and one fig campaign right now and so far the only game they managed to release is Wasteland 2. At some point I think a company should just start releasing their already promised things before asking for more money.
That's the nature of game/movie/book/TV/etc, development. Things change. You're basically asking the devs to predict the exact state, scope, and design of the game years in advance.
The game comes first here.
I think they tried their best till the last minute possible to squeeze them in before waving the white flag. Should still be a very good game.What's sad about this is that they didn't tell the backers until now, a month or so before release. The guys at Kingdom Come: Deliverance in contrast are good at ripping the bandaid off early if a feature is going to be dropped or altered. Thus stuff like no blacksmithing has been handled well by the community on that game
Until someone implements a far better idea, it is way better than nothing. Lots of games from our childhood coming to life is fantastic despite the pitfalls.I still believe in Kickstarter games. However, the game crowdfunding system as we know it doesn't work. I'm hoping now that Kickstarter's shine has worn we'll start seeing more quality and sustainable projects
We have. For years.I still believe in Kickstarter games. However, the game crowdfunding system as we know it doesn't work. I'm hoping now that Kickstarter's shine has worn we'll start seeing more quality and sustainable projects
At what point does the initial scope of the game and the planned features reflect on the final outcome?
How close do they have to get to the original pitch, aka what people paid money for, before its reasonable to voice concerns or dissent?
I think they tried their best till the last minute possible to squeeze them in before waving the white flag. Should still be a very good game.
Until someone implements a far better idea, it is way better than nothing. Lots of games from our childhood coming to life is fantastic despite the pitfalls.
It's perfectly understand when things are cut during development. It's kind of shitty when developer cuts aspects that were Kickstarter stretch goals and wasn't planning of telling backers until they got caught. That's really the concerning part especially considering drawn out development.There seems to be for some in the community a prioritization of specific rewards being fulfilled as opposed to the delivery of a good product overall. I can't say I agree with that but I do understand why Kickstarter at least makes it a little complicated. If you put money in specifically for something that gets cut, I suppose you could be justifiably upset. Does that happen often? Do people back for a specific thing even if the game suffers just to have that thing?
Development is challenging so I think some things are bound to not make it.
Considering Inxile's response, especially about the cut companion, it doesn't seem like a last minute decision at all.
As a backer the main thing I want is a good game. I would rather see developers make the best game possible rather than stick a checklist of features. Ideally every single stretch goal and feature makes it in and they are also of high quality. But that's not the reality of creative development. Sometimes an idea sounds better on paper than in execution. Once you realize that, it's better to have the balls to cut it out or change it rather than to stubbornly stick to it.
With regards to Torment in particular, it's hard to tell what has actually been cut because the forum post linked here only details the Oasis content being scaled back. There are no specifics about how many companions are cut and which ones in particular. Hard to get mad...
The game's a million words and ideally designed to be reactive and branching. I'd consider the long development to be a plusIt's perfectly understand when things are cut during development. It's kind of shitty when developer cuts aspects that were Kickstarter stretch goals and wasn't planning of telling backers until they got caught. That's really the concerning part especially considering drawn out development.
Torment is a completely different ballpark. And is Wasteland a CRPG? It always seem more XCOM + RPG to me, major focus on combat
Plenty of time to communicate it with backers then.
Okay I stand corrected.Considering Inxile's response, especially about the cut companion, it doesn't seem like a last minute decision at all.
At least from my understanding, the KS sum isn't always sufficient to fund the entire development, but it can be used to pitch to other investors for more funding based on fan interest shown. It is possible said investors would prefer more platform ports for the ROI.I suppose there are a lot of questions really that could be asked beyond all this. For example, the game was pitched as a PC title yet then got support for consoles. One could argue about questioning how much money that involves, if it affected the nature of development or even if this is why somethings like the orchestra are cut.
It's shitty that only because Codex and their forums have started to be very vocal about it that they opened up about it, a month or so before release. Warhorse studios did it right at least by communicating to their backers asap.
Let's hope so. It can be just bland and boring like PoE on the other hand.The game's a million words and ideally designed to be reactive and branching. I'd consider the long development to be a plus
Well yeah, you don't overhaul your design philosophy for party member characters on a whim.Considering Inxile's response, especially about the cut companion, it doesn't seem like a last minute decision at all.
Let's hope so. It can be just bland and boring like PoE on the other hand.
Fallout 1&2 were superior in pretty much all aspects and about equally as buggy... except they got fan mods .The combat is like poor mans XCOM, but it did have stat use in the locations, and different character builds. As far as dialogue went it had smart/hard/kiss ass stats for different dialogue, but it wasn't done very well. I'd say it was a CRPG, with a lot of mediocre combat (launching right near Divinity OS did NOT help them in this regard either). Felt like a 3D party based Fallout (1/2) that should have came out in 2003, but came out in 2014 instead.
That's the nature of game/movie/book/TV/etc, development. Things change. You're basically asking the devs to predict the exact state, scope, and design of the finished game years in advance.
The game comes first here.
I am kind of even more apprehensive now. .Oh man, I would be thrilled if it's as "bland and boring" as PoE.
Seriously, I honestly like him and find him fair most of the time, but what the hell? That comment was uncalled for.What would happen if a non-mod made that comment?
Seriously, I honestly like him and find him fair most of the time, but what the hell? That comment was uncalled for.
Threads and threads about not spreading hate in gaming and then an admin calls an entire site userbase "social cripples"?
I think it's important to always keep in mind that prior to the advent of internet discussion forums, there were many thousands and perhaps millions of mentally ill individuals in this country who were largely "out of sight and out of mind" to most Americans. These are people who might be on disability and spend virtually all of their time as shut-ins at home, so most people would never encounter them in work or social situations.
For most of us, such people simply didn't exist. When these people would venture out into public, they would often have "episodes" and "outbursts" which would cause normal people to recoil, shun and ostracize them, thus causing these people to further withdraw into their shut-in lives.
But with the advent of internet discussion forums, these people are "in their element" here. They can now talk to literally thousands of people from around the world, from the safety of their little hovels, without fear of any negative physical consequences they would expect to receive in the real world. Hence they feel free to say whatever thought passes through their tortured minds, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. This is the greatest development of their entire lives, and they often spend all day her to the exclusion of all other activities.
So now you understand the RPGCodex.
Well, I partially agree with you.
InExile seems to be a crowdfund-only company at this point, and that really doesn't mix with how tech companies are really run.
They start up Project B because the people that do so have been let go from Project A. Same with Project C and so forth.
While Fargo has tried his best explain this, it really just is exhausting.
I think Pillars 2 and Banner 3 did this well by doing Project B without crowdfunding, only to return to the well for Project C.
Okay I stand corrected.
At least from my understanding, the KS sum isn't always sufficient to fund the entire development, but it can be used to pitch to other investors for more funding based on fan interest shown. It is possible said investors would prefer more platform ports for the ROI.
It's shitty that only because Codex and their forums have started to be very vocal about it that they opened up about it, a month or so before release. Warhorse studios did it right at least by communicating to their backers asap.
I am kind of even more apprehensive now. .
If it can't beat PoE's conversation/skill checks/quest resolutions and needlessly bland walls of texts for everything this game has no chance. Come on, we are hoping for PT successor here and PoE doesn't quite reach BG1 levels.
<Developer> We made a design decision
<Website Full Of Actual Social Cripples> DEVELOPER OUT OF CONTROL, SELLING LIES TO THE PUBLIC, NO MORE WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS!!!!
Threads and threads about not spreading hate in gaming and then an admin calls an entire site userbase "social cripples"?
Yeah I was hyperbolic there I must admit, my bad. I will defend BG2 though with my last breath!Come on dude, this is straight up nonsense. PoE is a massive step from BG1 in every "Tormenty" dimension of cRPGs. BG1 has practically (maybe even literally) zero reactivity, choice and consequence, quest resolution options, or opportunities for role playing beyond simply picking your class and being generically good or evil. Not to mention that the companion characterization consists entirely of their barks. And I enjoyed BG1!
I understand not liking the aesthetic choices in PoE and preferring those of BG1 but let's not let that get in the way understanding what sort of content is actually in the game.
The combat is like poor mans XCOM, but it did have stat use in the locations, and different character builds. As far as dialogue went it had smart/hard/kiss ass stats for different dialogue, but it wasn't done very well. I'd say it was a CRPG, with a lot of mediocre combat (launching right near Divinity OS did NOT help them in this regard either). Felt like a 3D party based Fallout (1/2) that should have came out in 2003, but came out in 2014 instead.
I guess Wasteland 2 sold well enough for them to port to the consoles. Although wasn't the port problematic? Unlike say Divinity OS.So no time for some stretch goals... no time to tell your backers... but plenty of time for a console port.
Interesting.
I think it's important to always keep in mind that prior to the advent of internet discussion forums, there were many thousands and perhaps millions of mentally ill individuals in this country who were largely "out of sight and out of mind" to most Americans. These are people who might be on disability and spend virtually all of their time as shut-ins at home, so most people would never encounter them in work or social situations.
For most of us, such people simply didn't exist. When these people would venture out into public, they would often have "episodes" and "outbursts" which would cause normal people to recoil, shun and ostracize them, thus causing these people to further withdraw into their shut-in lives.
But with the advent of internet discussion forums, these people are "in their element" here. They can now talk to literally thousands of people from around the world, from the safety of their little hovels, without fear of any negative physical consequences they would expect to receive in the real world. Hence they feel free to say whatever thought passes through their tortured minds, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. This is the greatest development of their entire lives, and they often spend all day her to the exclusion of all other activities.
So now you understand the RPGCodex.
I guess Wasteland 2 sold well enough for them to port to the consoles. Although wasn't the port problematic? Unlike say Divinity OS.
Why are people defending this?
Its funny sometimes how GAF works different weights for the same situation.
But hey its Torment, our beloved game so who cares right? Devs can just come one month before the lauch and say "yo backers you know that extra money you put it so we could reach another stretch? Thanks for your money but its not happening".
I imagine how many shitpost this thread would be filled with if this was a Molyneux or Sean Murray project.
But hey its Torment, our beloved game so who cares right?
Yeah, I don't get why people would excuse this given InExile's history and refusal to learn from their past mistakes. I'd also say that it's unfair to compare crowdfunding to traditional game development. If you promise people something if they reach a stretch goal you should deliver it.